What is a gunsmith???

[GRUMPA]

SWMBO got a magazine in and she pointed out they had an article about "Gunsmithing". Well.....turns out it was an article about being your own gunsmith, and it proceeded to describe the ins and outs of maintaining your own firearm. Pretty much cleaning it.........OOOOOOOkay.....

In my mind a true gunsmith can virtually take anything and turn it into a true work of art. Some of the folks I correspond with, and have seen there work, is way over my knowledge. But I sure wish I lived close, like next door type of stuff, I would be over there all the time trying to learn the craft.

You know, the person that seems to rattle off model numbers like an endless supply of M&M's and not skip a beat. The ones that have full knowledge of what's wrong with a firearm and not take it apart yet. The ones that can re-blue something with a luster the factory would be envious of.

I don't know how someone can call themselves a gunsmith by simply cleaning a firearm, but the way that article read I have to wonder sometimes.

[shredder]

I have seen things like that too. In my mind the "craftsman" is going away from many professions. I know a few genuine gunsmiths and they are all just as you describe. Fountains of information capable of turning a raw steel billet into a thing of beauty. Others can transform a block of walnut into a stock that will take your breath away. Some just drop your Rem 700 into a new stock and replace the trigger, call it a custom rifle.

[oneokie]

IMO, what that article describes is a gun fixer.

[dragon813gt]

IMO, what that article describes is a gun fixer.

I wouldn't even go that far. Sounds like a gun owner to me. Tim is an example of what a gunsmith really is. I know enough to be dangerous. Luckily I also know my limits. If you don't know how to take apart your firearms to clean them I wonder why you even have them.

[koehlerrk]

JMHO, but here's my definitions:

Gun Owner - knows how to properly clean all owned firearms, can attach items that use some kind of screw.

Gun Mechanic - knowledgeable in most firearms, can do all the stuff an owner can, plus knows how to swap out broken parts, can glass bed, bolt lap, and make other minor accuracy tweaks, can drill and tap for scope mounts, and knows how to correctly mount a scope to a rifle.

Gunsmith - a walking encyclopedia of firearms, a highly skilled craftsman in all aspects of firearms work. Someone who can be handed a truck axle, some bar stock, and a block of wood and will have no difficulty turning that into a working firearm. With some extra work, it will look better than most anything currently produced by major manufacturers. If a Gunsmith can't do it, it's impossible.

For reference, I know three actual Gunsmiths, these men are something special, and I am a much better Gun Mechanic due to their training.

[waksupi]

The ones who get me, are those who read how to do something on the internet, misunderstand what they read, and proceed to do some dastardly deed to a firearm.

[texaswoodworker]

JMHO, but here's my definitions:

Gun Owner - knows how to properly clean all owned firearms, can attach items that use some kind of screw.

Gun Mechanic - knowledgeable in most firearms, can do all the stuff an owner can, plus knows how to swap out broken parts, can glass bed, bolt lap, and make other minor accuracy tweaks, can drill and tap for scope mounts, and knows how to correctly mount a scope to a rifle.

Gunsmith - a walking encyclopedia of firearms, a highly skilled craftsman in all aspects of firearms work. Someone who can be handed a truck axle, some bar stock, and a block of wood and will have no difficulty turning that into a working firearm. With some extra work, it will look better than most anything currently produced by major manufacturers. If a Gunsmith can't do it, it's impossible.

For reference, I know three actual Gunsmiths, these men are something special, and I am a much better Gun Mechanic due to their training.

This is a question based purely out of curiosity. Where is the line drawn between a gunsmith, and the next step up? The guys who not only design new guns, but revolutionize the way guns work. Guys like John Moses Browning. I'm not sure if you'd simply call him a gunsmith, a gun designer, or something else.

[koehlerrk]

This is a question based purely out of curiosity. Where is the line drawn between a gunsmith, and the next step up? The guys who not only design new guns, but revolutionize the way guns work. Guys like John Moses Browning. I'm not sure if you'd simply call him a gunsmith, a gun designer, or something else.

Well now, that's an interesting question...

A close friend of mine has the job of being a product development engineer for Beretta, he personally did a lot of work on the Nano. But he's not a Gunsmith as he simply supplied the ideas, but didn't do the work with his own two hands.

John Garand built, with his own two hands, the very first Garand. He was very much a Master Gunsmith.

Eugene Stoner may not have built all the parts of the first Armalight Rifle, but it was pretty close. He was a Master Gunsmith.

Sam Colt hand built a lot of his prototypes. He was a Master Gunsmith.

But then there's John Moses Browning... The man who was a Master Gunsmith while still in his teens. The man who, if all he ever invented was the 1911 would have gone down in history as one of the greatest ever. Ditto the 30-06 Cartridge, The M1919 machine gun, the BAR, the M2 50 BMG and the 50 BMG round, the Humpback Browning shotgun, the takedown Browning 22 Semi Auto, etc, etc, etc...

So, to answer the question, the line between a Gunsmith and a Master Gunsmith lies in the fact that a Master can create a brand new product, build it, and have it put into production. Such genius is truly rare.

Then there's John Moses Browning. That man is truly in a class by himself. No one else even comes close.

[BCgunworks]

I have seen my trade kinda branch out into specialist.

We have master stock makers...who anything wood is what they do.

We have master engravers.

We have machinist/gunsmiths. With all the advances in machining and all the new tooling these I also consider a specialist.

And we have your true artist. There the ones that are to some level a jack of all the trades.

And the list goes on.....but anymore the job has become so diverse and has so much tech knowledge involved anymore the specialty areas get broken down.

[BPCR Bill]

Yes, Browning is still revered to this day in Belgium. His work bench still stands at FN in Herstal as it did the day he died.
Well now, that's an interesting question...

A close friend of mine has the job of being a product development engineer for Beretta, he personally did a lot of work on the Nano. But he's not a Gunsmith as he simply supplied the ideas, but didn't do the work with his own two hands.

John Garand built, with his own two hands, the very first Garand. He was very much a Master Gunsmith.

Eugene Stoner may not have built all the parts of the first Armalight Rifle, but it was pretty close. He was a Master Gunsmith.

Sam Colt hand built a lot of his prototypes. He was a Master Gunsmith.

But then there's John Moses Browning... The man who was a Master Gunsmith while still in his teens. The man who, if all he ever invented was the 1911 would have gone down in history as one of the greatest ever. Ditto the 30-06 Cartridge, The M1919 machine gun, the BAR, the M2 50 BMG and the 50 BMG round, the Humpback Browning shotgun, the takedown Browning 22 Semi Auto, etc, etc, etc...

So, to answer the question, the line between a Gunsmith and a Master Gunsmith lies in the fact that a Master can create a brand new product, build it, and have it put into production. Such genius is truly rare.

Then there's John Moses Browning. That man is truly in a class by himself. No one else even comes close.

[BPCR Bill]

Ahhhh, the term "Gunsmith". Now that term can be used pretty loosely, as I have found out over the years. Sadly, there are a lot of people who will hang the shingle on the door proclaiming they are "gunsmiths", start their business, and promptly begin to ruin firearms.

[John Taylor]

It can be like any other trade. Think of a mechanic, some just keep changing parts till they get it working and some will take the time to figure out what is causing the problem first. I do machine work for another gunsmith who is way more knowledgeable about models and brands than I am but he does not have any machine tools to make parts or install barrels. I sometimes go to him for info and he comes to me for machine work. He is good at stock work and I find I can't make money doing wood, not that I can't work with wood, it takes me longer. Not every smith is a John Browning, a true thinker who could work with his hands.

[btroj]

Is a guy who does only 1911s and no wood still gunsmith? I say yes, no doubt about it.

I think John hit it on the head. The work is so specialized that it is hard to do it all.

I also think there is a difference between a gunsmith and a gun maker. Gun maker builds entire rifles from the ground up, gun smiths repair what isn't working.

Find a guy who does the specific work you need and be happy with it. If I need a receiver drilled for a scope mount I don't care that the guy doesn't do cut checkering.

[pietro]

Ahhhh, the term "Gunsmith". Now that term can be used pretty loosely, as I have found out over the years. Sadly, there are a lot of people who will hang the shingle on the door proclaiming they are "gunsmiths", start their business, and promptly begin to ruin firearms.


Yep - Being a "machinist" does not necessarily make someone a good gunsmith .


.

[Cap'n Morgan]

John Moses Browning was not a mere gunsmith - he was a creator!
What that man accomplished during his lifetime... just amazing. Kalashnikov may have created the worlds finest assault rifle, Colt the most famous revolver and the Mauser brothers the most famous infantry rifle, but Browning had so many unique designs to his credit the mind boggles :veryconfu

BTW: Many places in Europe you can become a "true" gunsmith only by serving a four year apprenticeship at a master gunsmith's shop. And like someone said, after that you should be able to make any part in a fine sporting gun from a raw piece of steel or wood.

[rking22]

Harry Creighton explained it to me as it took a machinest 20 years to become a tool maker and it took 20 more years for a tool maker to learn to be a gunsmith. Something like that ,, and I can't find fault in that explanation, given some 37 years ago :)

[mac60]

Yep - Being a "machinist" does not necessarily make someone a good gunsmith .


.

But, how can you be a "gunsmith" without having the skills of a machinist? What say ye Tim?

[bangerjim]

A "smith" is someone that works in a medium based upon extensive training, vast experience and knows how to make modify, and fix, things in said media.

A "blacksmith" works in iron and steel

A "coppersmith" works in copper ware

A "whitesmith" works in silver and platinum (aka silversmith)

A "goldsmith" works in gold

A "gunsmith"......well you can figure it out from there.

banger

[Artful]

Banger, there you go trying to use logic :veryconfu

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gunsmith

First Known Use of GUNSMITH 1588
Full Definition of GUNSMITH
1: one who designs, makes, or repairs small firearms

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/armorer
armorer
Full Definition of ARMORER1: one that makes armor (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/armor) or arms



2: one that repairs, assembles, and tests firearms

[JSnover]

Yep - Being a "machinist" does not necessarily make someone a good gunsmith .


.
True dat. I am a machinist and I've done some work on guns (thankfully all of it has been good) but I'm no gunsmith.

[bangerjim]

Banger, there you go trying to use logic :veryconfu

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gunsmith

First Known Use of GUNSMITH 1588
Full Definition of GUNSMITH
1: one who designs, makes, or repairs small firearms

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/armorer
armorer
Full Definition of ARMORER

1: one that makes armor (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/armor) or arms



2: one that repairs, assembles, and tests firearms

I think that is what I just said without directly using the words from your dictionary!

1: one who designs, makes, or repairs small firearms.

I refered to nothing about an armorer, which is definitely different. That trade would sorta fall into the blacksmith category, especailly in the olden golden daze of knights and swords and cannon and all that other olde neat stuff.

banger

[btroj]

Ok, in that definition the key word is OR.

Designs, makes, OR repairs small firearms.

One need not build entire firearms to be a gunsmith.

[smokeywolf]

Gunsmith should have a good grasp of metallurgy, heat treating, surface treatments, physics, ballistics, machining, fits & finishes and be able to troubleshoot any issue with almost any firearm.

John Browning was a designer/engineer of such vision and talent that comes along maybe a few times each century.

A few more names to be thrown out there: Christopher Spencer, Christian Sharps, Samuel Colt, David Marshall Williams, Dr. Richard Gatling, Mikhail Kalashnikov

smokeywolf

[koger]

In doing gunsmithing for over 25+ years, here is what it has entailed for me.

Tear down and clean, reassemble test fire.

Replace broken/missing/bubba'ed parts with new factory ones, or making them from scratch.

Mount scopes and or sights, and zero.

Drill and tap Mauser's, Enfield's, Black powder rifles, and anything else the customers wants a sight or scope on.
Replacing factory sights, or cutting dovetails and installing sights, front and back. Also replacing shotgun beads, or installing middle beads. Filling old oversize dovetails in barrels with stock and fitting/finishing.

Forge, grind,and finish Bolts on Military rifles to clear scopes.

Refinish gun metal, including, hot bluing, military Parkerizing, rust blue, and slow rust brown, along with all the new spray on epoxy finishes.

Glass bedding, repairing, refinishing and making gunstocks.

Doing trigger jobs on revolvers, hand polishing parts, replacing factory springs with custom spring kits.

Hand polishing and tuning triggers on bolt action rifles.

Jeweling bolts, hammers, triggers, and various other parts of firearms.

Recrowning barrels.

Various machining/miling jobs and lathe work. If I don't feel confident, I hire a full time machinist to do it.
Accurizing, including Re-Barreling and building full custom rifles from Mauser's, Savages,Rugers, Winchesters, Remingtons and Rolling block Remington's.

Accurizing 1911's, spring kits, custom links fitted, barrel bushings fitted and a host of other specialty parts.

Lining .22 barrels that have been shot out.

Just a short list, but all this was necessary to fill the bill in the area where I live, and make a living at it. Bluing and rifle/handgun accurizing has been my bread and butter.

[.22-10-45]

My Grandfather introduced me to a gentleman in his late 80's over 40 years ago. He told us his mother "sold" him to the Ferlach gun making company when he was 12..they had regular dorms for the young boys who lived and learned there until their early 20's...some apprentiship! They started out starting the forge fires before light..gradually graduating to sweeping floors & cleaning/oiling machines. They had a choice for their graduation test..either a side by side rifle or shotgun or a single-shot rifle. They were given a rough chunk of mild steel. a chunk of walnut..and only the forge, hammers, chisles and files to build it..had to be fully engraved also. Those that passed were given a complete set of hand tools in leather case.

[Freightman]

Wish there was a gunsmith in this area, know some who have signs up but I can screw up a gun and not have to pay. :bigsmyl2:

[M-Tecs]

My background is in advanced machining and toolmaking. I specialize (part time) in blueprinting and barreling for bench and long range target rifles, service rifles (m1's, M14's, AR and 1911's). I also do work for some of the local smiths that do not have the machining abilities or equipment to complete the job. One is a regional service center for some of the major manufactures. It has a complete machine shop that is good for general machining but I get to fix their mistakes.

Am I a "gunsmith"? I don't know nor do I care. Since the industrial revolution started specialization is the most effective way to get quality at an affordable price.


Koger's post covers 98% of what a modern gunsmith is. The last 2% are specialists.

[Green Frog]

But, how can you be a "gunsmith" without having the skills of a machinist? What say ye Tim?

My personal pet peeve is the guy who hangs his shingle as a gunsmith but has no training in machining and no metal working machinery, or at most a bench top drill press and perhaps a little electric grinder. A gunsmith who really practices his trade must be able to modify and fabricate at least simple parts. A parts changer is a gun mechanic, and certainly has his place in the pantheon of gun personnel, but he is simply not a gunsmith! JMHO, but that's what I look for.

Green Frog
(Gun Mechanic on a good day! ;) )

PS I jumped ahead and posted this before reading Koger's post... he said it all better than I ever could, and describes the gunsmith I would love to have living in my town. The term "armorer" as used in the military (sometimes also called a "gun plumber") includes a wide range of skill and abilities, some master gunsmiths and some parts changers, but while on the job, they usually know their own limits and when to pass a problem up the line.

[str8shot426]

Koger is a Gunsmith.

[fatelk]

I understand that it's not easy making a decent living as a gunsmith nowadays. Many years ago I worked for a gunsmith for a while. I think he does very well for himself, but a) he's been at it since he was a kid so he's really good, b) he's put in many years and countless long hours to get where he is, in both skill and reputation, c) he's specialized (rifles), and d) for as good as he is at gunsmithing, he's even better at self promotion.

I was out of work a few years ago, and I had more than one person suggest that I look into gunsmithing as a full time occupation, since I'm known among friends as being pretty fair at tinkering and fixing things. I had to laugh every time. I don't have anywhere near the level of skill and experience to even pretend to call myself a gunsmith. It would take me years to get good enough to pass as a competent smith, and in the meantime my family would starve.

[John Taylor]

People ask me quite often about becoming a gun smith, I usually say "don't quit your day job." I was fortunate that I had a background of mechanics, welding and machine work plus all the equipment to start when I took being a gun smith as an occupation. I had started a company with a couple younger men repairing logging equipment and found out a partnership is harder to make work than a marriage. The two partners bought me out and kept me on for a while as a machinist then one day told me I was done. Went home and worked on my favorite hobby, got an FFL and found out I was in business.

[C. Latch]

This is largely a matter of semantics, but I get irked when I hear someone brag about being a 'glock armorer'.

I can disassemble and diagnose most anything, have fixed a few things in my day, can fit parts, assemble an AR.....none of that makes me a gunsmith.

[flyingmonkey35]

I would put my self at a
Level 1 gun mechanic

If I were to make up a scale of 1-5.

[smokeywolf]

This is largely a matter of semantics, but I get irked when I hear someone brag about being a 'glock armorer'.

I can disassemble and diagnose most anything, have fixed a few things in my day, can fit parts, assemble an AR.....none of that makes me a gunsmith.

To take your post a bit further... I've known armorers and I've known gunsmiths; they are not necessarily one in the same.

smokeywolf

[C. Latch]

To take your post a bit further... I've known armorers and I've known gunsmiths; they are not necessarily one in the same.

smokeywolf

I think we're on the same page here.

In a similar vein, you can go to a car dealership and you will definitely find a parts-replacer working out back in the shop. Whether you find a MECHANIC or not is another question.

[Goatwhiskers]

Gorsh, sx muntz ago I kud not spel gonschmidt, now I are one! GW

[John Taylor]

Gorsh, sx muntz ago I kud not spel gonschmidt, now I are one! GW
I thought that was "brain surgeon"
My wife was looking up the average wage for her profession ( RN) in our area and so I asked he to punch in gunsmith. She came up with $40,000 to $45,000 a year, wish I made that much after expenses. A fellow gunsmith told me how to make a million as a gunsmith. He said "start with five million". As the saying goes, I came into this world with nothing and I still have most of it.

[Blackwater]

I agree with shredder - the craftsmanship has gone from most "gunsmiths," just as it has from the field of car mechanics. A friend of mine can tell you just about what's wrong with an engine just by listening to it, and tell you what to do about it, to boot. Try asking one of our "young lion" mechanics, and you'll get that doe in the headlights look. Most of today's "gunsmiths" are, at best, one or two trick ponies. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily, but they're "specialists" in the gunsmithing world.

I have a friend from whom I just bought my first true custom rifle - for me the realization of a lifetime's aspirations. Stock is cut and chaped from a blank, has a beautiful deep oil finish, a Mauser action with side-swing safety, beautiful and deep blue job, and it handles like it was made for me, which it very nearly was. I wound up with it almost by accident, and at a price that reflects more than simple friendship. This guy did ALL the metal AND wood work, and did it all at a very high level of performance. I sometimes just sit it in front of me and just admire it, like an art lover admires a Davinci, Rembrant or whoever's work. It's that good. The subtlety of the stock's contours, and the way the lines flow is just plain beautiful, and exquisitely executed. THAT is what a REAL gunsmith can do.

Very few 'smiths are good at both wood and steel work. Engraving? That's alway been a bit of a specialty. I've worked as a "gunsmith" for a while when I first retired under the tutelage of my friend who sold me the custom rifle cited above, and I'm very proud that not a single gun I worked on came back. One of the neatest jobs I did was on an old 99 Savage that I e-nickeled the receiver on after removing pits and making sure all flats were truly flat, gave the barrel a very nice highly polished blue job that was reallly deep and lustrous (learned to REALLY polish on that one), and blued the lever and slicked up the action in the process. The guy had told us to spend whatever it took to make it "special," and when he got the bill, he at first went ballistic, but when he saw the gun, he just melted, paid the tariff, and walked out with a big smile on his face. We'd done the work at a significantly reduced price than he'd have had to pay elsewhere, and he was astute enough to know it.

In gunsmithing, NOBODY does it ALL - not really - but there are a few (ONLY a few!) who come darned close to it. My gunsmith buddy was supposed to have been dead 20 years ago, but as he puts it, "I fooled all my doctors and lived." He labors now under extreme duress, and it is absolutely amazing what he puts out despite the conditions he has to labor under. THAT, my friends, is a REAL gunsmith!

It's been said that if you WANT to be a musician, it's the worst experience you'll ever have if you go pro, but if you HAVE TO BE a musician, then it's the only thing that'll ever really bring you satisfaction, and it's pretty much that way for gunsmiths, too. All artists, and all REAL gunsmiths ARE artists, have to have something within them that separates them from the rest of us, and they're both blessed and cursed because of that. If you know a real 'smith, it'd be good for you to value him as you would a friendship with Divinci or Rembrandt. They're just as rare as those great old painters, and probably just as talented - just in a different field, and it's a field that's much more kinetic and multi-faceted than painting, though painting is much more involved than most would ever suspect, too.

Gun mechanics are what you see mostly today, and if you see one advertising very much, you can pretty surely bet that he's a mechanic, and not a "true gunsmith" who can be a jack-of-all-trades AND master of each one. Get your car fixed, and the mechanic will almost surely be a "parts changer" who goes by the book, and often without any real understanding of how the parts work or how they all work together, except in the most general sense.

A friend who has a very, very nice custom #1 Ruger once commented that even now, 20 years after he had it built, he still occasionally notices things, usually while cleaning it, that he'd not noticed for the 20 years prior - little things that only the most acute observer will notice, that make some little difference in the overall utility and/or beauty of the gun. REAL 'smiths can do things like that. Mechanics can't and don't.

Real 'smiths become known among a very exclusive "club" or clique and word gets around pretty well wihtout advertising very much at all. REAL craftsmanship still DOES matter, even if most shooters never recognize or notice it.

Oh yeah, and one more facet of REAL gunsmiths is that they're always humble. They may cop an attitude when dealing with stupidity. They HAVE to. It's a defensive mechanism to allow them to run off folks who'd just prevent them from doing what they love, and ensuring that they stay away so they don't cost him any more precious time. But beneath the gruff exterior that occasionally surfaces when provoked (like poking a tiger with a sharp stick), there'll be a man who's far too involved in learning to be haughty or conceited. If you see a person calling himself a "gunsmith" who shows haughtiness or conceit, run like hell and don't look back! He's a fake, and even if he does SOME good work, eventually he'll overstep his ability and much something up. Humility goes a LONG way in working with one's hands.

My buddy who made my rifle said Ackley always taught his students that if wood or metal needs to be removed, it didn't really matter HOW you did it as long as the method didn't create enough heat to affect the temper of the metal in critical areas. The time factor was a consideration, but not THE consideration. The only thing that really mattered is that it be done RIGHT, and that's a valuable principle for anyone who aspires to become a gunsmith to remember.

What really amazes me, though, is the old PA or KY makers who often worked with a bare minimum of tools and created some of the most marvelous works of art ever created by any set of gunsmiths anywhere. These guys often had to cut just the right trees at just the right time to make just the right charcoal to fire their forges with, and had to know, most often from experience, just how to "make do" with what they had to work with. Ever see some of the old wooden rifling fixtures they used? Get a copy of Dillin's book on the Kentucky Rifle from the NRA Classics Library, and you'll see what REAL gunsmithing was once all about. Now THAT is CRAFTSMANSHIP in the EXTREME!

As we've progressed, and technology has taken over what once was the province of the craftsman, we've also lost a lot of what made the craftsman a craftsman - his craftsmanship, which really is mostly just attention to detail and an innate or acquired ability to solve problems as they arise - and they almost always DO arrive. We've lost the ability, generally, to even appreciate those who sweat over the "small stuff" so the gun is better, more suitable or simply more beautiful than the stuff that's turned out by the factories today. Yes, guns ARE better, generally, in at least a technological sense, but they sure as hell ain't got the feel, personality or style that guns once more commonly had. And that's a dang shame, because it also gives rise to our failure, collectively at least, to appreciate many MORE of the finer things in life - even extending to family, friends, values, ethics, religion, and all the other things that make us humans more than merely another species of animal. We call ourselves the "thinking animal," but I surely see less of this with each passing year, and I'm not sure where it'll end, but I don't think I want to be around if it gets much worse. It simply can't lead us to anywhere that's good. That's the view from here, anyway, on a very complex and largely subjective subject.

[waksupi]

I agree with shredder - the craftsmanship has gone from most "gunsmiths," just as it has from the field of car mechanics. A friend of mine can tell you just about what's wrong with an engine just by listening to it, and tell you what to do about it, to boot. Try asking one of our "young lion" mechanics, and you'll get that doe in the headlights look. Most of today's "gunsmiths" are, at best, one or two trick ponies. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily, but they're "specialists" in the gunsmithing world.

I have a friend from whom I just bought my first true custom rifle - for me the realization of a lifetime's aspirations. Stock is cut and chaped from a blank, has a beautiful deep oil finish, a Mauser action with side-swing safety, beautiful and deep blue job, and it handles like it was made for me, which it very nearly was. I wound up with it almost by accident, and at a price that reflects more than simple friendship. This guy did ALL the metal AND wood work, and did it all at a very high level of performance. I sometimes just sit it in front of me and just admire it, like an art lover admires a Davinci, Rembrant or whoever's work. It's that good. The subtlety of the stock's contours, and the way the lines flow is just plain beautiful, and exquisitely executed. THAT is what a REAL gunsmith can do.

Very few 'smiths are good at both wood and steel work. Engraving? That's alway been a bit of a specialty. I've worked as a "gunsmith" for a while when I first retired under the tutelage of my friend who sold me the custom rifle cited above, and I'm very proud that not a single gun I worked on came back. One of the neatest jobs I did was on an old 99 Savage that I e-nickeled the receiver on after removing pits and making sure all flats were truly flat, gave the barrel a very nice highly polished blue job that was reallly deep and lustrous (learned to REALLY polish on that one), and blued the lever and slicked up the action in the process. The guy had told us to spend whatever it took to make it "special," and when he got the bill, he at first went ballistic, but when he saw the gun, he just melted, paid the tariff, and walked out with a big smile on his face. We'd done the work at a significantly reduced price than he'd have had to pay elsewhere, and he was astute enough to know it.

In gunsmithing, NOBODY does it ALL - not really - but there are a few (ONLY a few!) who come darned close to it. My gunsmith buddy was supposed to have been dead 20 years ago, but as he puts it, "I fooled all my doctors and lived." He labors now under extreme duress, and it is absolutely amazing what he puts out despite the conditions he has to labor under. THAT, my friends, is a REAL gunsmith!

It's been said that if you WANT to be a musician, it's the worst experience you'll ever have if you go pro, but if you HAVE TO BE a musician, then it's the only thing that'll ever really bring you satisfaction, and it's pretty much that way for gunsmiths, too. All artists, and all REAL gunsmiths ARE artists, have to have something within them that separates them from the rest of us, and they're both blessed and cursed because of that. If you know a real 'smith, it'd be good for you to value him as you would a friendship with Divinci or Rembrandt. They're just as rare as those great old painters, and probably just as talented - just in a different field, and it's a field that's much more kinetic and multi-faceted than painting, though painting is much more involved than most would ever suspect, too.

Gun mechanics are what you see mostly today, and if you see one advertising very much, you can pretty surely bet that he's a mechanic, and not a "true gunsmith" who can be a jack-of-all-trades AND master of each one. Get your car fixed, and the mechanic will almost surely be a "parts changer" who goes by the book, and often without any real understanding of how the parts work or how they all work together, except in the most general sense.

A friend who has a very, very nice custom #1 Ruger once commented that even now, 20 years after he had it built, he still occasionally notices things, usually while cleaning it, that he'd not noticed for the 20 years prior - little things that only the most acute observer will notice, that make some little difference in the overall utility and/or beauty of the gun. REAL 'smiths can do things like that. Mechanics can't and don't.

Real 'smiths become known among a very exclusive "club" or clique and word gets around pretty well wihtout advertising very much at all. REAL craftsmanship still DOES matter, even if most shooters never recognize or notice it.

Oh yeah, and one more facet of REAL gunsmiths is that they're always humble. They may cop an attitude when dealing with stupidity. They HAVE to. It's a defensive mechanism to allow them to run off folks who'd just prevent them from doing what they love, and ensuring that they stay away so they don't cost him any more precious time. But beneath the gruff exterior that occasionally surfaces when provoked (like poking a tiger with a sharp stick), there'll be a man who's far too involved in learning to be haughty or conceited. If you see a person calling himself a "gunsmith" who shows haughtiness or conceit, run like hell and don't look back! He's a fake, and even if he does SOME good work, eventually he'll overstep his ability and much something up. Humility goes a LONG way in working with one's hands.

My buddy who made my rifle said Ackley always taught his students that if wood or metal needs to be removed, it didn't really matter HOW you did it as long as the method didn't create enough heat to affect the temper of the metal in critical areas. The time factor was a consideration, but not THE consideration. The only thing that really mattered is that it be done RIGHT, and that's a valuable principle for anyone who aspires to become a gunsmith to remember.

What really amazes me, though, is the old PA or KY makers who often worked with a bare minimum of tools and created some of the most marvelous works of art ever created by any set of gunsmiths anywhere. These guys often had to cut just the right trees at just the right time to make just the right charcoal to fire their forges with, and had to know, most often from experience, just how to "make do" with what they had to work with. Ever see some of the old wooden rifling fixtures they used? Get a copy of Dillin's book on the Kentucky Rifle from the NRA Classics Library, and you'll see what REAL gunsmithing was once all about. Now THAT is CRAFTSMANSHIP in the EXTREME!

As we've progressed, and technology has taken over what once was the province of the craftsman, we've also lost a lot of what made the craftsman a craftsman - his craftsmanship, which really is mostly just attention to detail and an innate or acquired ability to solve problems as they arise - and they almost always DO arrive. We've lost the ability, generally, to even appreciate those who sweat over the "small stuff" so the gun is better, more suitable or simply more beautiful than the stuff that's turned out by the factories today. Yes, guns ARE better, generally, in at least a technological sense, but they sure as hell ain't got the feel, personality or style that guns once more commonly had. And that's a dang shame, because it also gives rise to our failure, collectively at least, to appreciate many MORE of the finer things in life - even extending to family, friends, values, ethics, religion, and all the other things that make us humans more than merely another species of animal. We call ourselves the "thinking animal," but I surely see less of this with each passing year, and I'm not sure where it'll end, but I don't think I want to be around if it gets much worse. It simply can't lead us to anywhere that's good. That's the view from here, anyway, on a very complex and largely subjective subject.


Good assessment.

[MBTcustom]

I agree with shredder - the craftsmanship has gone from most "gunsmiths," just as it has from the field of car mechanics. A friend of mine can tell you just about what's wrong with an engine just by listening to it, and tell you what to do about it, to boot. Try asking one of our "young lion" mechanics, and you'll get that doe in the headlights look. Most of today's "gunsmiths" are, at best, one or two trick ponies. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily, but they're "specialists" in the gunsmithing world.

I have a friend from whom I just bought my first true custom rifle - for me the realization of a lifetime's aspirations. Stock is cut and chaped from a blank, has a beautiful deep oil finish, a Mauser action with side-swing safety, beautiful and deep blue job, and it handles like it was made for me, which it very nearly was. I wound up with it almost by accident, and at a price that reflects more than simple friendship. This guy did ALL the metal AND wood work, and did it all at a very high level of performance. I sometimes just sit it in front of me and just admire it, like an art lover admires a Davinci, Rembrant or whoever's work. It's that good. The subtlety of the stock's contours, and the way the lines flow is just plain beautiful, and exquisitely executed. THAT is what a REAL gunsmith can do.

Very few 'smiths are good at both wood and steel work. Engraving? That's alway been a bit of a specialty. I've worked as a "gunsmith" for a while when I first retired under the tutelage of my friend who sold me the custom rifle cited above, and I'm very proud that not a single gun I worked on came back. One of the neatest jobs I did was on an old 99 Savage that I e-nickeled the receiver on after removing pits and making sure all flats were truly flat, gave the barrel a very nice highly polished blue job that was reallly deep and lustrous (learned to REALLY polish on that one), and blued the lever and slicked up the action in the process. The guy had told us to spend whatever it took to make it "special," and when he got the bill, he at first went ballistic, but when he saw the gun, he just melted, paid the tariff, and walked out with a big smile on his face. We'd done the work at a significantly reduced price than he'd have had to pay elsewhere, and he was astute enough to know it.

In gunsmithing, NOBODY does it ALL - not really - but there are a few (ONLY a few!) who come darned close to it. My gunsmith buddy was supposed to have been dead 20 years ago, but as he puts it, "I fooled all my doctors and lived." He labors now under extreme duress, and it is absolutely amazing what he puts out despite the conditions he has to labor under. THAT, my friends, is a REAL gunsmith!

It's been said that if you WANT to be a musician, it's the worst experience you'll ever have if you go pro, but if you HAVE TO BE a musician, then it's the only thing that'll ever really bring you satisfaction, and it's pretty much that way for gunsmiths, too. All artists, and all REAL gunsmiths ARE artists, have to have something within them that separates them from the rest of us, and they're both blessed and cursed because of that. If you know a real 'smith, it'd be good for you to value him as you would a friendship with Divinci or Rembrandt. They're just as rare as those great old painters, and probably just as talented - just in a different field, and it's a field that's much more kinetic and multi-faceted than painting, though painting is much more involved than most would ever suspect, too.

Gun mechanics are what you see mostly today, and if you see one advertising very much, you can pretty surely bet that he's a mechanic, and not a "true gunsmith" who can be a jack-of-all-trades AND master of each one. Get your car fixed, and the mechanic will almost surely be a "parts changer" who goes by the book, and often without any real understanding of how the parts work or how they all work together, except in the most general sense.

A friend who has a very, very nice custom #1 Ruger once commented that even now, 20 years after he had it built, he still occasionally notices things, usually while cleaning it, that he'd not noticed for the 20 years prior - little things that only the most acute observer will notice, that make some little difference in the overall utility and/or beauty of the gun. REAL 'smiths can do things like that. Mechanics can't and don't.

Real 'smiths become known among a very exclusive "club" or clique and word gets around pretty well wihtout advertising very much at all. REAL craftsmanship still DOES matter, even if most shooters never recognize or notice it.

Oh yeah, and one more facet of REAL gunsmiths is that they're always humble. They may cop an attitude when dealing with stupidity. They HAVE to. It's a defensive mechanism to allow them to run off folks who'd just prevent them from doing what they love, and ensuring that they stay away so they don't cost him any more precious time. But beneath the gruff exterior that occasionally surfaces when provoked (like poking a tiger with a sharp stick), there'll be a man who's far too involved in learning to be haughty or conceited. If you see a person calling himself a "gunsmith" who shows haughtiness or conceit, run like hell and don't look back! He's a fake, and even if he does SOME good work, eventually he'll overstep his ability and much something up. Humility goes a LONG way in working with one's hands.

My buddy who made my rifle said Ackley always taught his students that if wood or metal needs to be removed, it didn't really matter HOW you did it as long as the method didn't create enough heat to affect the temper of the metal in critical areas. The time factor was a consideration, but not THE consideration. The only thing that really mattered is that it be done RIGHT, and that's a valuable principle for anyone who aspires to become a gunsmith to remember.

What really amazes me, though, is the old PA or KY makers who often worked with a bare minimum of tools and created some of the most marvelous works of art ever created by any set of gunsmiths anywhere. These guys often had to cut just the right trees at just the right time to make just the right charcoal to fire their forges with, and had to know, most often from experience, just how to "make do" with what they had to work with. Ever see some of the old wooden rifling fixtures they used? Get a copy of Dillin's book on the Kentucky Rifle from the NRA Classics Library, and you'll see what REAL gunsmithing was once all about. Now THAT is CRAFTSMANSHIP in the EXTREME!

As we've progressed, and technology has taken over what once was the province of the craftsman, we've also lost a lot of what made the craftsman a craftsman - his craftsmanship, which really is mostly just attention to detail and an innate or acquired ability to solve problems as they arise - and they almost always DO arrive. We've lost the ability, generally, to even appreciate those who sweat over the "small stuff" so the gun is better, more suitable or simply more beautiful than the stuff that's turned out by the factories today. Yes, guns ARE better, generally, in at least a technological sense, but they sure as hell ain't got the feel, personality or style that guns once more commonly had. And that's a dang shame, because it also gives rise to our failure, collectively at least, to appreciate many MORE of the finer things in life - even extending to family, friends, values, ethics, religion, and all the other things that make us humans more than merely another species of animal. We call ourselves the "thinking animal," but I surely see less of this with each passing year, and I'm not sure where it'll end, but I don't think I want to be around if it gets much worse. It simply can't lead us to anywhere that's good. That's the view from here, anyway, on a very complex and largely subjective subject.
Very well said.

[Love Life]

Aren't gunsmith those guys who put new handguards on AR-15 rifles?

Craftsmanship and the ability to translate what the customer wants into a finished product that is functional and beautiful are what make a person a "Gunsmith" to me.

A person you can send a box of parts to along with a check and a note giving basic goals of your rifle and finished with a "figure it out and make it work" at the end of it. Then they proceed to do just that and exceed expectations.

The medium is irrelevant to me. Doesn't matter to me whether the gunsmith is working with the finest wood and deep bluing, or fiberglass and stainless steel. You have to be very good at what you do to make it all come together.

There is a 'gunsmithing' shop (I use that term loosely) in Florida that is currently involved in legal woes because they took the finest components money can buy, and built garbage with it.

There are gunsmiths and shops who can take mediocre components and still turn them into a very nice and functioning rifle.

There are smiths you send $3,000 worth of parts to and know you are going to get your money's worth out of them.

I don't believe craftsmanship is dead. You just have to pay for it.

[waksupi]

Aren't gunsmith those guys who put new handguards on AR-15 rifles?

Craftsmanship and the ability to translate what the customer wants into a finished product that is functional and beautiful are what make a person a "Gunsmith" to me.

A person you can send a box of parts to along with a check and a note giving basic goals of your rifle and finished with a "figure it out and make it work" at the end of it. Then they proceed to do just that and exceed expectations.

The medium is irrelevant to me. Doesn't matter to me whether the gunsmith is working with the finest wood and deep bluing, or fiberglass and stainless steel. You have to be very good at what you do to make it all come together.

There is a 'gunsmithing' shop (I use that term loosely) in Florida that is currently involved in legal woes because they took the finest components money can buy, and built garbage with it.

There are gunsmiths and shops who can take mediocre components and still turn them into a very nice and functioning rifle.

There are smiths you send $3,000 worth of parts to and know you are going to get your money's worth out of them.

I don't believe craftsmanship is dead. You just have to pay for it.

More good points. People generally get a much nicer rifle from me when they send the parts and turn me loose, rather than micro managing the project.

[str8shot426]

It is simply, like any trade. You have hacks and you have craftsman.

How many people have done carpentry work?
How many of them are real carpenters?

[Zouave 58]

I believe the heart of the matter is craftsmanship; an internal ethic to do the work to the highest possible standard no matter what. Of course, one needs to be well grounded in the necessary skills and there needs to be an artistic or creative component as well. It sure helps to be mechanically intuitive and experience never hurts. You have to be willing to experiment with new methods, practice new techniques, problem solve; but above all, learn something new every time you go to work. You have to be able to laugh at yourself as well. You have to get over the trepidation of returning work to your client where he sees near perfection and you see only imperfection. You will have to learn to accept and tolerate the fact that you will never, ever, do a job 100% perfectly; that in hind sight could not have been done a little better, faster, prettier. You will find that you have to work more hours than most for less money than many. The saddest day of your life will be when you realize that you've aged to the point that those skills you've worked all your life to attain begin to leave you. Craftsmanship

[deltaenterprizes]

No but it is a great foundation to start

[6bg6ga]

Gunsmiths are a lost breed. The guys that can do a trigger job on a 1911 and give you a 2.5 lb trigger and still maintain the guns ability to function correctly. I haven't seen a real one in my area in years just the posers.