>45-70, 405 grain, velocity and bear

[palabman]

I'm looking for some opinions on using a 405gr RNFP (Coated Missouri boolits) and velocity for black bear with my Henry .45-70. I want to keep it out of the "shoulder breaking" range and have found that 1500 - 1600 fps is a nice load to shoot. Is this adequate for Pennsy black bear? I have been working with Varget, IMR 4198 and am currently loading some with IMR 3031. Thus far the most accurate load has been with 48.0 grains of Varget giving a velocity of right around 1500 fps (2 inch group at 100 yds). Increasing the charge widens the group.

Thanks

Rick

[snapshot]

I don't no how large those blackies get up north but down here your loads are quite addequit you henry is a strong action and well built gun I prefer my 1886 Win. and you could beef it up a little if you want to I shoot the lyman 457193 anywhere between 1350 and 1900 and all loads give good performance even out to 300 yards the powders you are useing are just fine i use them myself and have been shooting this old war horse cartridge for over 30 years.

[NVScouter]

And then some. Moly (black) coated? 1200-1800 will take a bear no sweat. How do you like that Henry?

[palabman]

That's good to hear. After reading some of the forums a lot of guys are loading them to 1800 - 1900 fps and when I tried Varget above 50 grains it gave a pretty good thump. I was shooting the rifle from a "lead sled" and I don't know if I'd like it to much straight from the bench.

As for the Henry, I really like it so far. Some complain about the use of the loading tube rather than the gate but I like the tube. Another complaint is the use of the ghost ring receiver sight rather than the rear buckhorn. You do have to remove the ghost ring to mount a scope but again this isn't an issue with me. I just don't consider a scope failure enough of an issue these days to worry about it.

[palabman]

Moly (black) coated?

They are powder coated.

[pmer]

24-25 grains of 2400 will produce the velocity you are looking for. I am shooting 24.3/2400 with 1.5 grains of dacron filler and I'm impressed every time take it out. It's a checked and lubed 405 grain boolit at 1500 FPS. I didn't see any bear but got some pictures of a Fischer in the game camera.
With twice the Taylor knock Out compared to an average 44 revolver, very good bear medicine IMO.

[RugerFan]

I have been shooting the RCBS 45-405-FN in my Marlin 45-70 using Varget and getting good accuracy. I installed a Limb Saver recoil pad which did help tame recoil. You should be fine at 1500 - 1600 fps.

[palabman]

24-25 grains of 2400 will produce the velocity you are looking for. I am shooting 24.3/2400 with 1.5 grains of dacron filler and I'm impressed every time take it out. It's a checked and lubed 405 grain boolit at 1500 FPS. I didn't see any bear but got some pictures of a Fischer in the game camera.
With twice the Taylor knock Out compared to an average 44 revolver, very good bear medicine IMO.

Will polyester aquarium filter floss work?

[35Whelen]

1300 fps and a 400 grain bullet killed millions of buffalo....a black bear will be a piece of cake for that load. It will clean the bear on a broadside shot and dig a deep ditch on the other side.

[pmer]

Will polyester aquarium filter floss work?

I'm not sure, if it looks like it came out of a stuffed toy animal then it might be worth a try. Members here have bought rolls of the material and cut it into squares too. So far I have been using the white fluffy fill used in stuffed toys. What I do is charge the cases with powder and double check the charge in each case, like using a flash light or other method for the height of the powder column in the cases before pushing the filler in. Then I pinch off 1.5 grain sized chunks and measure them for weight in the scale. In other words there is plenty of room for too much of this powder and the filler just keeps the powder against the primer. There is a lot more on using fillers here if you do some searching. I think it's mostly used for powders that are harder to ignite and where case volume is high.

[Lead Fred]

My kill anything that walks on the planet round:

42 grains of reloader 7 will push that 405gr 1750fps, and nothing will survive

[palabman]

Thanks for the responses. My load of 48 grs of Varget is giving me 1500 fps and 2.5 inch groups at 100 yds. Now all I have to do is find me a bear. :)

[white eagle]

although not a 405 I shoot a 420 gr with 47.0 gr 3031 get real excellent accuracy out of my #1

[dlbarr]

..... I shoot the lyman 457193 anywhere between 1350 and 1900 and all loads give good performance even out to 300 yards the powders you are useing are just fine i use them myself and have been shooting this old war horse cartridge for over 30 years.
snapshot, what are you using for a wad between your powder and the PB Lyman 457193? Or are you? the Lyman book says stay <1600 or danger of leading...

[runfiverun]

405 grs of bhn 11 lead at 1400 fps has killed everything from ant's to buffalo.
I doubt a bear barely tougher than a mule deer will pose any issues.

[btroj]

I shot 2 black bears with 46 gr of H322 and a 420 plain base. It went 1650 or so. Total overkill.

Bears died quite quickly, bullets passed thru easily. If I hunt them again I will run the same bullet with 24 gr of 2400. It runs 1350 in my Marlin, is more comfortable to shoot, and will do all I need done.

[dlbarr]

I shot 2 black bears with 46 gr of H322 and a 420 plain base. It went 1650 or so. Total overkill.

Bears died quite quickly, bullets passed thru easily. If I hunt them again I will run the same bullet with 24 gr of 2400. It runs 1350 in my Marlin, is more comfortable to shoot, and will do all I need done.

So do you use a wad of any kind under that PB?

[MT Chambers]

Will polyester aquarium filter floss work? It was used by many in the days of the Buffalo hunts.

[palabman]

So do you use a wad of any kind under that PB?

Pmer said earlier in the thread that he was using 1.5 gr of dacron filler over the powder. I think he was using 24.5 gr of 2400.

[runfiverun]

22-24 grs of 2400 with or without Dacron is a super popular load.
I use both of them with and without the Dacron under a 430gr LEE T/L G/C mold.
it's about all I want with the steel crescent shaped butt-plate on the browning 86 I have.

[DanWalker]

I killed a 600 lb Gemsbok with 250 grain boolit that was doing 1500 fps. I have punched 320 grain boolits at 1500 fps through numerous deer and hogs. A 405 grain boolit at anything over 1000 fps just aint gonna stop inside anything but the largest black bear.

[snapshot]

Just depends on the load but i use what I got sometimes nothing sometimes a 45 cal wonder wad sometimes dacron, I like to trap my bullets and I had alot of recovered oreogon trails laser cast bullets those things have a brinel rating of about 24 and they are hard the rounds i load hot I use those to cast along with some tin they are pretty hard cant scratch them with my thumb nail don't know about the rating, leading is kept to a bare minimum, most of the rounds i shoot are around the 1330 range about 38.0 grains of IMR-3031 i'm always trying something new try to get those holes as close as i can to each other

[NVScouter]

I killed a 600 lb Gemsbok with 250 grain boolit that was doing 1500 fps. I have punched 320 grain boolits at 1500 fps through numerous deer and hogs. A 405 grain boolit at anything over 1000 fps just aint gonna stop inside anything but the largest black bear.

what 250g? I'm thinking about paper patching a 255 pistol boolit.

[btroj]

So do you use a wad of any kind under that PB?

Nope, no wad. It does lead a bit but I can easily get 10 accurate shots before I need to clean. For hunting that doesn't bother me a bit. Those bullets were water dropped range scrap.

[DanWalker]

what 250g? I'm thinking about paper patching a 255 pistol boolit.
I used the LEE 250 grain SWC. I was shooting a win94 in 45LC.

[NVScouter]

I used the LEE 250 grain SWC. I was shooting a win94 in 45LC.

Gotcha I was hoping it was in the 45-70. I do have checks coming today for those 300g WFN boolits you sent me. Pistol didnt like them without cylinder reaming but I hope my 20" 45-70 does. I want to try for a deer or two with them.

[DanWalker]

Gotcha I was hoping it was in the 45-70. I do have checks coming today for those 300g WFN boolits you sent me. Pistol didnt like them without cylinder reaming but I hope my 20" 45-70 does. I want to try for a deer or two with them.
25 grains of 2400 pushes them along at around 1500 fps and my wife can put them into around an inch at 100 yards from the bench with my ruger number one 45/70.

[41magjh]

I don't know where you are going to hunt at but where I hunt at a 100 yard shot would be a long one. I believe most bears are killed within a fifty yard shot. What you said you had I do believe it will be very effective. I hunt in pocono area

[MBTcustom]

24 grains of 2400 is one of those magic combos that is easy to remember and works stupidly well.

Another one is for the 30-30 Winchester: 30 grains of 3031. When I was first reloading when I was a kid, I really thought that "3031" was so called because of the 30-30 Winchester. 30 caliber/31 grains max for a 150 grain boolit.
Just goes together like peas and carrots. LOL!