M1A vs AR-10 style

[osteodoc08]

Basically looking for a 308 Win semi auto rifle to be used as fun/bench gun out to 500 yards. I'd imagine putting decent quality glass on it and plinking away at steel/fun targets out to that distance and then some if opportunity existed. I'd bench it for accuracy at up to those ranges too. Could be pressed into service for personal defense, but I have other ARs for that. Not wanting to discuss a SHTF or EOTWAWKI situation and caliber war.

I've basically been looking at the SpringField Armory M1A and AR-10 analogues such as the Sig 716 or even an Armalite or other.

I have brass and 1200+ 147gr FMJBT bullets eating up space and need to be disposed of :-)

Suggestions/Discussion wanted.

[country gent]

Both are fine accuurate firearms. They are much diffrent technologies though. The M1A is gas operated short piston and reliable. Alot can be done to "accurize: these rifles. They are normally excellent shooters when tuned up. Some simple tricks for extending accurate life are Open trigger gaurd when not in use for extended periods of time, this removes pressure on bedding slowing compression of it. Clean rifle upside down in a cradle with reciever inser and rod support on muzzle, this keeps rod centered and solvents from running into bedding area softening it. A good trigger can be had 2 stage and 4 1/2 lbs but very controlable with a little work done. I have 2 built to national match grade both are very accurate and reliable Both now wiegh close to 13 lbs. The Ar 10 is also accurate and reliable firearm, magazines can be an issue finding the right ones. More selection in barrel lengths and easier scope mounting ( especially if you get a flat topped model). Triggers are drop in now and easy to change out. Less issues with bedding and tuning is alot quicker. I personally feel that the AR10 in 308 has more felt recoil than the m1as due to the mass of the bolt carrier. Both are great rifles and can be very accurate. The diffrence in stock desighn and pistol grip angles may decide the choice more so than anything else, Just plain what feels right to you.

[DougGuy]

I kinda stayed away from the AR15 because they did not make them in .308 but these days there are some enticing newer entries such as the S&W M&P 10, and to a lesser extent the Ruger SR762. Both of these are lighter than 10lbs afaik, but would they be up to the task of 500yd shooting?

[John Allen]

I have a custom build AR10 It is a great gun but I still always go back to my M1A.

[dilly]

I prefer M1A style to the AR style. I can't really justify it and don't have anything bad to say about AR's, but they just don't suit my preference.

[garym1a2]

Scopes are difficult with the M14 style rifles.
AR10's are flat tops and easy to scope.


Basically looking for a 308 Win semi auto rifle to be used as fun/bench gun out to 500 yards. I'd imagine putting decent quality glass on it and plinking away at steel/fun targets out to that distance and then some if opportunity existed. I'd bench it for accuracy at up to those ranges too. Could be pressed into service for personal defense, but I have other ARs for that. Not wanting to discuss a SHTF or EOTWAWKI situation and caliber war.

I've basically been looking at the SpringField Armory M1A and AR-10 analogues such as the Sig 716 or even an Armalite or other.

I have brass and 1200+ 147gr FMJBT bullets eating up space and need to be disposed of :-)

Suggestions/Discussion wanted.

[popper]

No problems with my long or short LR-308, cast or 168 Amaxs. Suggest a good trigger for long range work. Get the free float hand guard. No bedding or other stuff to do. Armalite is different. Glass must be durable, like a SA 22LR, bolt slam is pretty hard. My Nikon 6-24 is still doing OK. Read BruceB's stuff twice before loading.

[osteodoc08]

Anyone have a tricked out M1a to share pictures of? Particularly scope mounts?

[prsman23]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/21/8118d130636acf9f866e553e0fc0ffb9.jpg

The SOCOM from the factory.

[John Allen]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/21/8118d130636acf9f866e553e0fc0ffb9.jpg

The SOCOM from the factory.


Prsman, I have the same style but the scout version it is a sweet machine.

[Red Elk]

I prefer shooting the M1A. Personal opinion, of course. I have shot against the AR platforms out to 1000. They did not fair well. Perhaps the shooters needed practice. I spoke with several and they were not sold on their choice either.
Scoping M1A did not present any problems for me, although it does set your scope somewhat high, a good cheek piece aids eye alignment. Accuracy has been somewhat phenomenal, to be honest. Perhaps I have not shot it enough to wear it out. Accurate enough for my book. The 147's may not prove to be the best choice for accuracy. Your mileage may vary, of course. Federal Gold Medal Match seems to work well enough to use as a sort of standard, although I know some prefer heavier bullets.
I have looked at the AR platforms, but the cost doesn't seem to justify the result, in my book. I guess I am old fashioned.
re

[pacomdiver]

troy modular battle rail, solid as a rock and wont loosen up like the side mounts
127403
armalite ar10 built by me from stripped receiver 18.5 in 1-10 heavy profile er shaw barrel, troy battle rail, caa arms stock, knights armament scope mount, millet 6-25 scope, geisselle trigger, shoots much more accurately than the m1a and uses the same mags and have about same cash invested in both
127404

[DR Owl Creek]

I've seen a number of references in a number of different places about the difficulty of mounting a scope on a M1A, and how the side mounts are loose and wobbly. Granted, mounting a scope on a M1A isn't as easy as simply putting a mount on a top rail, and then tightening a couple of bolts/nuts, or throwing a couple of levers, but it isn't too difficult for most people. As far as the side mounts being loose and wobbly, if they are done properly, they can be just as secure, or perhaps more so, than most of the top mount detachable bases I've seen on AR's. The key is if they are done properly. I'm not talking here, however, about the replacement handguard type mounts for mounting all the tacticool stuff. That's different.

My rifle is the Springfield Armory M1A "loaded package" rifle, with the heavy stainless steel barrel. I have the Springfield 3rd Gen Scope Mount on mine. When installed properly, these are rock solid, and the scope can be removed and reinstalled without changing zero. Again, I want to emphasize that this is when installed properly, and there may be some minor fitting required. I'll do a quick description of how you mount one.

You will need a few simple hand tools that probably most people already have, but most importantly, also a flat-jawed bench vise on a solid bench. The side mount base uses the rifle's stripper clip guide as it's primary mount point, so the existing stripper clip guide must first be removed. This isn't difficult. Remove the rifle's receiver from the stock, and secure it in the vise, top up and barrel facing to your left.

To remove the original stripper clip guide, first drive out the retaining pin, and then use a rubber mallet to drive the stripper clip guide from right to left out of the receiver. The next step is installing the replacement stripper clip mount base, and is probably the most critical part of the whole process. You want to have a tight fit to make sure the scope base isn't loose and wobbly. The replacement stripper clip guide mount will be a little large and must be fitted to the rifle. A "little" filing with a small mill file, and trial and error, is the way to do it. Go slowly, and don't hog off a lot of material all at once, and you'll be fine. Slowly drive the replacement stripper clip guide into the receiver from the left to the right. Use a small pin punch through the hole in the top of the guide to locate where the corresponding hole in the receiver is. Stop when you hit that point. Use a pin punch to drive the retaining pin through the stripper clip guide into the receiver until it's flush, and then you're done.

Next, position the scope side mount against the left side of the receiver, and align it with the slots in the receiver. Install the large, slotted front hand-screw into the front mount hole, and hand tighten it. To make a secure fit, it's recommended to tap the mount into place by placing a rubber mallet on the flat surface of the mount, and then tapping the rubber mallet with a hammer in several places around the mounting screw. After this, securely tighten the front mounting screw with a large flat headed screw driver. Finally, screw in the rear mounting screw bushing through the mount until it contacts the receiver, then tighten the bushing with a 3/4" wrench. After this, screw in the large, slotted rear mounting screw, and tighten it too.

Now, put the barreled receiver back in the stock. The whole process can be done in about 15 minutes when you know what you're doing. It could take a little longer if you've never done it before, but it isn't difficult. Just take you're time, and do it right. Doing it wrong is always much slower! It isn't as fast and easy as "building" an AR from a box of generic parts that don't require any fitting, but I think most people reading this shouldn't have any problem mounting a scope on a M1A.

I do periodically check the large mounting screws on mine for tightness, but it hasn't been a problem. Good luck with yours.

Dave

[Edster]

Windham is turning these out now. They call it the Hunter 308. For those that want the AR10 platform but not the Black Rifle look . Shoots great too by the way

127425

[geargnasher]

The AR-10 isn't a "mature" design yet, but some (like the DPMS and M&P-10) are very close and are proving to be accurate, reliable shooters.

You said "fun" shooting. I find the old "Pogo Stick" to be far more "fun" than any AR-style rifle I've ever handled. There's also this little thing called TRACK RECORD, and you won't find one much better than the M1A, they just WORK. Yes, getting optics on there involve money and a learning curve to be done correctly, but it's plenty doable and, IMO, worth it. Don't discount the ability to hit at very long ranges with the factory M1A sights, and National Match apertures and front inserts are widely available for target work. Even old eyes seem to do very well with the M1A's sights, so you might not even opt for a scope after shooting one in factory trim. My only real complaint about the M1A is the two-handed wrestle to R&R the magazine, the AR-10 has the edge there for sure. Muzzle rise is also less with the AR-10 due to the straight-line configuration, but again, for FUN, I'd still recommend the M1A to anyone first.

Gear

[seaboltm]

Scopes are difficult with the M14 style rifles.
AR10's are flat tops and easy to scope.

I wouldn't say scopes are difficult with the m1a, but a good, solid scope mount is expensive for an m1a. I have had both. The AR-10 is gone, the m1a is still with me.

[SgtDog0311]

If I could only have one it would be my M1A. But then again it was my first rifle... issued in 1972, and slapped from my hand by the drill instructor more times than I can count.

Picked mine up ten years after my discharge in 1986; the walnut stock still had the notch for the selector. Not sure if they do anymore or not.

Of course I have not had 'just one' since then and if I had a pocket full of money I'd be asking myself 'which' AR-10. I bet it would be fun. But I'd pay extra for accuracy and I understand there is a fair discrepancy between current makers on that count. I don't have a pocket full of money right now since I've been too busy with vintage levers and single-shots to be doing that research for the time being.

[freebullet]

For your stated purposes I'd recommend an lr308 with a bull barrel, good scope, & good trigger. If your willing and able to assemble it yourself you can put together an lr308 for half the cost and easier than the m1a. The difference at 500 wouldn't be astounding for rifles of similar quality.

[kweidner]

I have owned both. Still have the M1a.......however my Cousin just got an AR 10 by Rock River. Just like anything I have ever shot by RRA I might have to now get one. It is almost benchrest accurate with my swaged 168gr flat bases. Aesthetics lean towards the M1a but holy cow is that RRA accurate. My AR-15 RRA is the same . Just ridiculous out of an autoloader.

[Uncle Grinch]

I have shot both and used the AR platform in service, My son was looking for this type rifle and while I may have influenced him, he ended up with a loaded wood stock M1A. For your use, I believe it's going to be a matter of personal taste, i.e., which one fits your style better. Both are good choices, but my choice would be the M1A. BTW, the only semi-auto I own now is two M1 Garands!.... yep, I'm old world!!

[wv109323]

Let me throw out my opinion. First I own two M1A's in NM configuration. They are sweet.The cons of the M1a are:
In NM configuration with a scope mount and scope they are very ,very heavy.
A good scope mount is big bucks.
The M1A if shot a lot requires maintenance. The maintenance is something that the average guy can not do. A heavy shooter needs to have his rifle rebarreled every two years.To maintain in match condition many parts will need to be inspected frequently. You may be able to "home smith" the AR-10.
There is a lot less aftermarket options for the M1A. An AR-10 can be reconfigured if so desired, like go from a 20" barrel to a 16". Match triggers, even different calibers,different uppers...etc.
The bedding can go south on an M1A.
A match M1A is not easily cleaned.
Parts are not going to get cheaper for the M1A.
Iron sights are limited on the M1A.
In the future the M1A will become less favorable with the "shoot'em up crowd"
Cons of the AR-10:
Magazines may be proprietary to company of manufacturer.
Some AR-10's have reliability/functioning issues.
All AR-10's are not 100% interchangeable
It is a black rifle

[JimP.]

got my Sportical DPMS flat top 308 for 799.99, shoots very well, no jams yet. 150 gr Remington corelocks very accurate. Sold M1A, kept M1 Garand (black syn stock, top handguard scope rail, mounted holo sight) , better weapon. JimP.

[osteodoc08]

OP here. Ended up with a Sig 716. So far so good.

[SgtDog0311]

OP here. Ended up with a Sig 716. So far so good.

Glad you follow up. Made me go their site and watch that promo video. Pretty cool. Just had a friend who knows a lot more about them than me recommend the same one so now my interest is peaked.

Do they come in only one barrel length? And what do they claim on accuracy compared to some of the others. Would enjoy hearing your choice considerations.

2016 might be my year for one. Be paying on another (other end of the spectrum single-shot rifle this year - a Ballard from Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co) for most of 2015:-). Sure looks like something to look forward to.

[osteodoc08]

Glad you follow up. Made me go their site and watch that promo video. Pretty cool. Just had a friend who knows a lot more about them than me recommend the same one so now my interest is peaked.

Do they come in only one barrel length? And what do they claim on accuracy compared to some of the others. Would enjoy hearing your choice considerations.

2016 might be my year for one. Be paying on another (other end of the spectrum single-shot rifle this year - a Ballard from Ballard Rifle and Cartridge Co) for most of 2015:-). Sure looks like something to look forward to.

There is the patrol model, which I got, and another designed around being a SPR (Squad Precision Rifle).

Im hovering around 1 MOA at 100 yards with 150gr Nosler BT and 8208 XBR. The rifle is sensitive to case dimensions and I have to be sure to run the mil surp brass (LC) through a SB size die and make sure they all go into a Wilson Case Gauge. Hopefully this will translate to better sub MOA accuracy once I find a pet load. Still working on that. Factory ammo has all went bang. Cheap mil spec ammo is 2-3 MOA at 100 yds. The higher prices stuff hovers around 1 MOA. Probably the best this rifle will do.

All in all, would I do it again? Probably not. I'm not going into battle and my AR-15 platforms work fine. This rifle isn't accurate for far out precision other than having fun with steel reactives. My bolt guns are consistently more accurate than this one is. But it is pretty Bad A$$ and fun to shoot, so it stays off the chopping block.

[SgtDog0311]

I never wanted an AR-15 but when Frankenstien was promoting her legislation I bought one out of spite. Expensive tantrum at the time since that was at the hieght of the scare. Now I'm biding my time and will eventually sell it, take my loss and tuck my tail as I fish for my wallet to make up the delta for an AR-10. Not a big priority with other interests right now but I'll have a look at that SPR when I do. I do want as much accuracy as can be had - at an acceptable price point obviously. I bet one of those will keep my single stage press going. Thanks for the feedback.

[osteodoc08]

I never wanted an AR-15 but when Frankenstien was promoting her legislation I bought one out of spite. Expensive tantrum at the time since that was at the hieght of the scare. Now I'm biding my time and will eventually sell it, take my loss and tuck my tail as I fish for my wallet to make up the delta for an AR-10. Not a big priority with other interests right now but I'll have a look at that SPR when I do. I do want as much accuracy as can be had - at an acceptable price point obviously. I bet one of those will keep my single stage press going. Thanks for the feedback.

If wanting top accuracy, IMHO, spend it on a custom target bolt gun with excellent glass. Others may disagree, but I'm just not seeing the accuracy here or on other examples that a bolt gun couldn't beat.

[Love Life]

Did you get the patrol or DMR model? 1-3 MOA with milsurp ammo is about normal with MOA for match ammo being about normal for a "battle rifle". Now, if you got the DMR version then I would be disappointed.

AR shooting can take some getting used to as well.

There are Ar's that will hang with bolt guns, but they cost mucho money.

[osteodoc08]

Did you get the patrol or DMR model? 1-3 MOA with milsurp ammo is about normal with MOA for match ammo being about normal for a "battle rifle". Now, if you got the DMR version then I would be disappointed.

AR shooting can take some getting used to as well.

There are Ar's that will hang with bolt guns, but they cost mucho money.

The patrol model. The DMR was more than I could justify. I was strictly looking for a 308 "battle rifle". I'm not disappointed in the accuracy as it does what I expected. It's a fun rifle and i
bought it when I was on an AR phase. My heart is really with revolvers bolts and levers.

[Certaindeaf]

The AR-10 was/is the original AR.. the .308 AR was/is the original AR design and the 5.56 came after.

[edward hogan]

The AR-10 was/is the original AR.. the .308 AR was/is the original AR design and the 5.56 came after.

For sure... What junk about "not a mature platform"?

Many, many reasons to prefer Armalite design. Upper & lower component units. Easy to gunsmith and build. Radial lug bult. No stock to bed. Integral scope rail.

Have an early 90s SA M1a. Did the Fulton Armory accuracy job on the gas block, installed NM sights front & rear. Awkward w/scope, much more complex to gunsmith. Stock must be bedded every 1000rds or annually.

Armalite AR-10 is the real deal. All others are imitation. Also like the Armalite M-15. Not a big deal to buy mags for $25 ea.

[MBTcustom]

Old thread, but just my 2 cents.
I prefer and own the M1A Scout. It's a solid 1.4MOA rifle out to 400 yards and all I've done is drop in some sadlack TiN parts for good measure. I have not bedded it. I do not use a scope as I prefer the iron sights for what I use it for. To date, it's the only gun I've taken a loan to get and I'm glad I did.
Now, even though you can put a scope on this gun doesn't mean you should. Just yesterday I was out shooting at 400 yards with a friend and I had the M1A with me simply because we had run into an unsavory character a week ago in the same spot. My friend told me to toss a few out there at 400 and see if I could hit anything. I racked the slide and stood flat footed and drilled the 2' gong about 5" low. He could hardly believe it. I took the round out of the chamber, stuck it back in the mag, and put the rifle back in the truck. I told him, and I'll tell you: "This is MY RIFLE. If I have to sell off everything, the M1A is the last one to go. In my opinion it's the ultimate.

Now, if I wanted a semi-auto to put a scope on, I would take the AR-10 over the M1A every time. But then again, I would also take a bolt action rifle over the AR-10 every time, so where does that leave me?
Truth is, I see a semi auto rifle as a close to mid range firearm. That is, it handles everything my bolt action is too slow to take care of. That pretty much puts me 200 yards and closer. I don't need a scope for that kind of range, and the battle sights are quick and effective (positively the MOST effective iron sights ever devised by man IMHO). I've hunted with my rifle in the rain and it performed flawlessly (last deer I shot, I flew a 168 Sierra Gameking up its nostril and into it's brain. DRT)
All things considered, I don't think the M1A Scout is the best semi-auto rifle on the market. I actually think it's the best rifle of any kind (bolt, pump, lever, or single shot) for general use, where and how most people use a rifle.

BTW, if anybody wants load data, use a 165-168 Hornady or Sierra on top of 41.5 gr of IMR4895 and a CCI primer.

[Bagdadjoe]

M1-A! M1-A! M1A! That's my cheer. Every time I see a post "my (whatever) is a tackdriver", "my (whatever) will hold .001 MOA @800 yds", I say "wonderful...show me a paper target with 4 bulls on it, shot in one string demonstrating your result".....not a rock...not a car fender... jus' sayin'

[Artful]

Well, I have M14S (cheaper M1A clone) and HK91 and TWO FALs - each has it's place
but I would love to try a M1A Scout - unfortunately no extra money for one but maybe someday.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

have both the ar308 and m1--
love the M1 but I got trained on the Ar platform

which will I take hunting? ar308 16" barrel. which one will I grab first if some one poped into the house that does not belong - Ar308 short barrel-
which one will I take out to the range to do 600-1000 meter shoots- DID it with the M1a BUT the mag thing was a PITA...so it has it place sure, will run in the mud, with snow , dirt etc sure but I am not going to war NO more (not for my Uncle any way)
Hk91- had it- love the gun - hate what it did to the brass
FAL- great gun- heavy- cant switch out the top end to meet the mission spec.

get an Ar308 , then get a SASS 18" and call it good- I have a full HBAR 20- ouch - great range gun- sucks to carry all day _ I don;t use slings_
love my shorty 16- full length gas system Fulton Arms barrel ( skinny- light weight) on the lower and make for fun to carry and shoot-
NOW I AM LOOKING AT POLYMER 308...James Madison Tactical!!!!!

will the M1a1 go away YES, one day , but that was Dad's service rifle, so IF "I" keep it around it will get dropped into the SAGE STOCK to make it more tacticool and I like the pistol grip feel , what I was trained with and what I used to (and still do) sleep at night with, one arms length or less away...every night
WOULD love the Scout in the SAGE stock though FOR sure, the mag change are a total PITA though takes lots of practice FOR ME ANY WAY...SAGE stock = $$$$ though

[Tackleberry41]

I am not an AR fan, but would take an AR-10 over the M1A. I had an M1a for a long time. A very nice rifle. But the ones I saw in the military required alot of maintenance to keep up their accuracy. Its not an issue with the Ar-10. There are way fewer add ons for an M1A vs the AR. You have to dig up a barrel plus the tools to change calibers in an M1A, ARs are like legos, not much in special tools to mess with them. Caliber swap is 2 pins. Triggers for ARs are easy to get, less so for an M1A. Mounting a scope is pretty simple on an AR, yes they do have good mounts for the M1A, but don't give them away, and just adds more weight to an already heavy rile. I really doubt you would see much difference accuracy wise between the 2. I have looked at an AR-10 here or there, but seldom have the cash for one. Or really much need for one.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Tackleberry
I built mine over a period of time, got the lower on sale. grip, lower, stock, trigger group , spring & buffer, etc (complete ) about $425- built DPMS-
Upper, again SALE item, 125-150?? barrel 209...all on sale ""not" during the buying spree- BCG made me sick at 200- got it for less though.. ....on sale .mags where 19 per
it took over a 2 year period , I was not going to be in a rush or compete with the crazies driving the prices up and up--- got it at under 1k at the end of the day, same rifle ( or comparable ) complete was over 1800 at one point , too rich for my blood--

OH run the Ar308 'wet' it does not like to run dry at all, maybe after a few thousand rounds but mine is still tighter than any service rifle I ever used and it likes to be 'lubed' that was new to me, I always tried to keep them dry, too much oil attracts dust - we have tons of dust out here in the desert climes .....

[MBTcustom]

M1-A! M1-A! M1A! That's my cheer. Every time I see a post "my (whatever) is a tackdriver", "my (whatever) will hold .001 MOA @800 yds", I say "wonderful...show me a paper target with 4 bulls on it, shot in one string demonstrating your result".....not a rock...not a car fender... jus' sayin'

Just for the record, I want to point out that I claimed 1.4 MOA accuracy with my M1A. I have tested that to 400 meters with a CB member present as witness. I'm not saying it's a tack driver, but rather that 6" groups at 400 yards is more than accurate enough to handle anything a normal person is likely to need a rifle for, and more accurate than most people can shoot off hand, even with a sling.
The AR-10 is more accurate. I'm not denying that, but how often do you see an AR-10 that doesn't have 5lb of doo-dads hung all over it? All that stuff adds weight and makes the rifle cumbersome and unwieldy in my opinion. In other words, the accuracy gain is not worth the added weight and the feeling that you are carrying around a chunk of aluminum complete with sharp edges and not a scrap of wood at all. In fact, if you don't like to feel the kiss of cold metal in freezing temperatures, there are only two places to hold the thing, one of which we are taught not to (grab the magazine rather than the forend).
The last AR-10 to come through the shop was another of those rifles that was built to be a "do-it-all" gun. I converted it to 260 Remington, installed the 12 power scope, the flip up sights, and the other doo-dads, and when it was all said and done, the rifle weighed 11 pounds unloaded! (anybody know what a loaded AR-10 magazine weighs?).
Anyway, I tried putting a scope on the M1A and had the same problem: Too heavy and unwieldy!

SO, we go back to the base rifles with no optics. They both weigh the same, but the AR-10 will have aluminum clamp on sights that may or may not be correctly matched to the sight radius, and very likely will NOT have anywhere near the elevation and windage adjustment necessary to make use of its accuracy at extended ranges, while the M1A will have solid steel sights that compliment each other perfectly for the human eye, that are protected by steel ears front and back, and have enough elevation clicks to make corrections for long range shots and the clicks are calibrated for the job very precisely.

In my mind, the M1A was a very well thought out and executed system built for a purpose by US arsenal personnel who took most of their ideas from an even greater battle tested platform (the indomitable M1 Garand), while the AR-10 was/is a civilian design that has so many options and features that the likelihood of it all being put together in an equally copacetic package is 1 chance in a million. It's just got so many options, it doesn't know what to do with it's precious self. LOL!

[M-Tecs]

M1-A! M1-A! M1A! That's my cheer. Every time I see a post "my (whatever) is a tackdriver", "my (whatever) will hold .001 MOA @800 yds", I say "wonderful...show me a paper target with 4 bulls on it, shot in one string demonstrating your result".....not a rock...not a car fender... jus' sayin'

If you want to observe what the best M14/M1A's are capable of just attend the Service Rifle portion of the National Rifle Matches at Camp Perry. The AR 15 has mostly replaced the M14/M1A for XTC but Springfield has an M1A match that is well attended. If you don't want to attend you can research the top M14/M1A scores from past years.

Well-built NM 14's will hold 5/8 to 3/4 MOA for 10 shot rapid fire strings with M852, M118LR or Federal Match. The problems is M14's require lots of maintenance to keep performing well at that accuracy level.

I haven't been to Perry since the M110 came on the scene but know upper receiver flex was an issue.

[warboar_21]

I don't know where the thought that the AR-10 isn't a mature design came from. They have been around longer than the M-16/AR-15. In fact the competed against the M-14 when the military was looking for a replacement for the Garand.

The bottom tier Springfield M1As actions are not manufactured in the US. I believe Norinco makes the lower end models. The Loaded version, National Match, and top tier are manufactured here.

I have always wanted an M1A since shooting an M14 in the Army. We tried shooting a couple in a service rifle comp but the old worn out M14s were no match against the newer tighter tolerances of the M16a2s that we were issued.

Between the two choices I would have to say the AR10/SR25 will have a larger aftermarket support than the M1A. You can configure the AR10 in just about any way you could imagine. The M1A will cost more to alter if you were to choose to do that.

Personally I would buy whichever one you wanted. I went with the AR10 with a 16.5" barrel and am pretty happy I did. I can shoot out to 500yds with it and it's light enough that I don't have to shoot it from a bench like the heavier barreled 20"-24" target models.

[Mk42gunner]

I'm curious about this needing two hands to remove an M-14/M1A magazine???? My experience is mostly with rack grade M-14's, I shot a lot of them in the service and taught several hundred people to use them and never had to (or saw anybody) using two hands to remove the magazine.

I also saw enough magazine failures with the M-16 and a few AR-15's to sour me on the design, mostly double feeds.

If I were to buy a 7.62mm battle rifle, it would be an M1A. Probably a full length one, I know what they feel like and have never held one of the shorter versions.

Robert

[NavyVet1959]

If I was building one from scratch, I would probably go with an AR-10, but if I'm wanting it to be stock, I'll stay with the M1A.

When you run out of ammo and you need to use it as a club, which would you prefer? A collapsing stock plastic AR or a big honkin' piece of walnut?

[Littleton Shot Maker]

run out of ammo??- stick a on the bayonet and get to it...

Just had the m1a in my hands- the mag thing was tough to get in- maybe I need more practice but wow it was hard to get in....easy to get out though

YOU Don't have to use the Car stock- m16a2 have a hard butt - no collapsing stock there--

Oh I've seen broken Walnut stocks too soooo
an empty RIFLE means you need a pistol now, or go hand to hand and or take 'their' rifle/ ammo if they have any left...
I always have my Gerber in pocket and some times a second in the other pocket...what rule was that #9?? always carry a knife

[NavyVet1959]

YOU Don't have to use the Car stock- m16a2 have a hard butt - no collapsing stock there--


I'm aware of that. I even still have one of the original length buffer tubes. For skull crushing endeavors, I would take a walnut stocked M1 over any of the AR stocks that I've seen. I just don't have a warm fuzzy feeling of the strength of the buffer tube regardless of whether you cover it in plastic, fiberglass, or wood. Yeah, there are some AR wood stocks that are sold on the net. I like the look of them, but I wouldn't want to be bashing heads with one. :) But I'm getting to dilapidated to be doing much in the way of bashing heads anyway. All those old sports / motorcycle injuries are catching up with me. Pain was so bad today, I even had to use my cane to go from the TV to my kegerator. One knee is swollen up very bad today. Getting old sucks. :(

[Littleton Shot Maker]

YES SIR YOU ARE VERY RIGHT - is does suck--

-- but FUN to shoot though?? as per OP - m1a1?? eemfh-
depends if he wants bench it or carry all day-

for just strickly FUN factor: I have more fun with the a.r. platform- and a short barrel-
we took post off track- a bit- he just needs to get both and be happy, isn't that we are all telling him that both are fun and cool and you should own both-
then get a g3, fal, bm59, did they make a 308 Galil??

you'd want an old m1a or m14s vs the new one (just me) the SOCOM look cool but as we all said before-

OPTIONS fall in favor of the ar308- 16" 18" 20" barrels- free float or not- open sights or scoped easy enough, cool carry handle too if you use it..

[osteodoc08]

OP here. I ended up with a Sig 716. I've put about 1k rounds through it and it's been flawless and gets better with useage. I've been able to hold 3/4"-1" groups with a load it likes using 168gr AMaxs. I recently joined a range that goes out to 300 yards and look forward to trying my hand at distance with it. The trigger sucks and needs to be replaced. Other than that, it is a fine machine.

ive been eyeing the M1A still and would like to get a national match and shoot it with irons. Until then I have a Garand to play with.

[Hickok]

I have an M1A NM with Bassett scope mounts and an older Redfield 4-12x Accutrac scope, and it is a tack driver. Cheek weld due to stock design and high scope mounting can be a problem, but there are ways to fix this.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

OP

right on!!! have fun be safe have more fun

[tygar]

I'm a M14 guy. One of Uncle Sams Misguided Children. Shot it in boot in 65 & carried it in VN, dropped it in the mud, got it all dirty & it always shot - not like the ARs. Shot it in matches. Shoot it here at my home, still shooting the 3 I had made in the 70s & 80s. 2 NM, 1 standard that I have since made into a shorty 16" with a BM59 folding stock. Think I still have a Springfield also....but...

I just got a 24" heavy bull DPMS 1in10 barrel to go with the upper & lower sitting in the safe along with a standard factory AR10 A2, & another Armalite A2 lower receiver.

I expect to have the DPMS (it will be a LR sniper) completed by next month. Nothing more than a match grade sniper/LR rifle with Bipod, flip ups (just in case) & a Nightforce. (still going to be heavier than hell)

Since I hit the man steel at 500 with the A2 iron sites almost as well as the M14s with irons I figure the DPMS .308 with the scope should do quite well, hopefully out to 1k just like my scoped M14 does.

But, back to the base question, which one, if only one - M14 period! It's far more rugged, I know how it kills from close to far & can keep runing when any AR would long since have needed a major take apart.