Wc857

[ammohead]

I bought 3 jugs of this powder some time ago because the price was right, and it still is at $72 for an 8 pound jug. Lately I have been doing load developement for my upcoming deer hunt using my 270 Win.

I went to the range yesterday and with 130 gr barnes triple shock bullets, 63.5 grs of WC857 and Winchester primers I got just over 1" groups at 2900 fps in my FN model 98 with 26" shilen bbl. No signs of excessive pressure. No unburned kernels in bore. With compressing another grain of powder may be possible. Looks like I will have 270 fodder for quite a while. I would guess that the powders performance will do well with heavier bullets as well, maybe better. I am going to have to try it with the 160 gr partition for elk.

[SciFiJim]

Isn't it great when plan comes together on the first try!

[TCLouis]

What data does one compare IT to when loading this powder?

Ah, looks like one can get "factory" velocities kicker charge or not at least in the smaller calibers.

May be good powder for the 257s MAYBE the 6.5's

[daengmei]

Some info here http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

[texassako]

It has done well with the heavier 117 and 120 gr bullets in my .25-06 just like Bartlett says. I would give it a try with something heavier in your .270.

[9w1911]

anyone stuff this in a 45-70? just curious, I have a jug, its a fine powder

[txnagal]

Just joined tonight after a few years of cruising this forum. Several folks here have been instrumental in my research on this powder. Many have used WC860, WC870 and WC872 with mixed results for standard and duplex loads in many cartridges. I thank these members (they know who they are) for sharing data I needed to proceed with testing WC857 these last 18 months.

I bought four jugs (no lot #) from High-Tech Ammo last March 2013 and have shot a few lbs. of it since. I have several duplex loads I really like using this powder with including the 223, 22-250, and 25-06. Before I proceed here... LIKE TAKING "VIYAGRA"... YOU CAN DIE USING DUPLEX LOADS!!! Joking aside... the following feedback is for seasoned reloaders who can heed to their own limits and abide to the VERY real limits EACH firearm possesses. DO NOT USE MY LOADS HERE WITHOUT WORKING UP!!!!!! -- each jug of this milsurp is as unknown as EACH rifle you may use it with.

I've shot over 300 rounds of .223 with duplexes (of both IMR4895 and H4198) that stared as a few grains as a "kicker"... and ended up being closer to a 9gr duplex (H4198) under a compressed case in the .223 with CCI 450 primers and 55gr. Hornady FMJs (and a few other bullets in the 50 to 62 gr range)-- and I love this powder. Groups of 3/4" @ 200 yards were obtained from my Savage Axis 22" on several outings and I've dialed in two Savage Axis 223 rifles with this load with the same results-- about 3150fps or so with low SDs on the 50 gr loads, a bit less MV with the heavier bullets.

I tend to change the kicker to IMR4895 for the heavier (69 gr Nosler HP) bullets using about 10 grains for the 223 for this hunting load. This is the deer load that took an 8 point at 200 yrs in the neck last year- DRT. These 223 duplex loads took MANY outings and VERY SMALL ladder step testing (1/4 gr) at a time to develop safely-- testing several bullets lengths at a time with the same load over many COLs-- always watching for pressure signs. I'm also always feeling primers while collet neck resizing each rifle's brass lot. I never popped a primer (or saw loose primers) with these final loads I chose to stop at. They shoot "lights out" and are fast enough to keep up with MOST canister loads in the books-- and accuracy above all is the achieved goal.

I also have used WC857 in my Savage Axis 22-250 22" with up to a few grains of H4198 under the same 55gr bullets (great groups but more testing is needed here to establish my MV and dial it in at 200 yds.), and in my 25-06 with up to a 1.5 gr kicker (H4198) with a 120gr sierra SP. I never got to work up the 25-06 load as I sold that rifle and got a 270 (Savage Axis again-- just love these rifles!). I plan to start a 270 load this next week using 130 gr. Federal Fusion .277 pulls from Rocky Mountain Reloading. I will start with 1gr and step up the ladder 1/4 gr. at a time to maybe 2.5 grs (using both the H4198 and IMR4895; with the larger kickers using IMR4895). As I successfully ran my old 25-06 with a 1 1/2 gr kicker of H4198 (last time out before I sold it) I feel I'm not pushing it too hard going with a FEW grains of these kickers in the 270 as the bore is larger compared to the 25-06 (case and powder capacity being about the same)-- but I'll always start at one grain and work-up. With this 22" Savage Axis 270 I'll expect to get about 3k or so MV.

I have no crony, but I have ladder tested all loads and got to a happy (read accurate) place with each of these loads so far-- while estimating velocity based on drops between 100 and 200 yards (old school method and with the 223 done). I am always prepared to stop and destroy loads IF I ever do pop a primer or see pressure beyond any doubt-- this is THE RULE and, "the dude abides."

I wanted to share this info for those who know their limits. Want to race a Nascar? Same rules... you can start SLOWLY and work up to speed-- or die right away pushing into limits you do not know how to deal with. So... anyone using this info must be ready to stop when the signs are there... sorry to rag but once the trigger is pulled you can't "un-pull" it. Many forums won't let this info exist on them and so I submit this info with respect, much thanks to others before me, and this warning: double charge a kicker-- you might blow up your gun (and yourself).

I'd like to know of ANY loads using this powder in a 243 or 7mm Rem mag as well. I will continue testing the 22-250 and 270 and start working on the 243 and 7mm Rem mag very soon too. I'll try to post some data on this thread after that. Hoping this thread might help the many people I've read about that bought WC857 over the years but aren't sure what to do with it!

Cheers... txnagal

[txnagal]

New chrono... Took out the 243 today to play with loads of WC857. I had three strings of loads- all in matched R-P cases. Neck sized in a Lee Collet die and had 5 shots per string. 95gr. RMR pulled BTSPs:

1) compressed full case, 1" group, 2900 - 2960 fps

2) compressed full case w/1.5gr. RL7 kicker, 1.75" group, but better SD, 2939- 2970 fps

3) same as #2 but shorter COL, SAME grouping/ but slightly better SD and speed compared to #2 at 2966 - 3002 fps

I used CCI mag 250 primers and will next try a CCI 200 standard primer and just 1 gr. of kicker with RL7 again. The non-kicker load #1 started with a bull then hit within the inch. It burned clean for those first five rounds too- this was a great surprise!. But the SD was the widest of the three strings. The kicker loads creeped up in speed and started getting a bit of ash left in the bore after I got to the middle of string #2. After a fast test of IMR4895 for a kicker last week, the ash was thick. So I went with the faster RL7 for this last, more detailed test. Glad I did as ALL these strings burned with little ash and I've had factory ammo leave more ash than these loads did.

With the last string, I liked the speed fine at right around 3000fps. But my gun's groups got wider with the 1.5gr. kicker so going to slow it down a touch and see if I can get better groups and a better SD too. I'm also still finding this Axis 243's sweet spot on the COL. So I'll also be trying some shorter lengths too.

This powder is going to obviously be a goto for years to come in my 243. The factory Remington round fired during this test also left a bit of ash (as the IMR4831 cases I also loaded and tested also did in subsequent testing these last few weeks). So this first string of just compressed WC857 is JUST AS CLEAN AS MOST OTHER CANISTER POWDERS I've loaded for this rifle.

These are all deer killin' loads and a 100gr. bullet with just WC857 compressed will most likely be within 25 or so fps of a factory load. I know this because I shot ONE factory R - P 100gr. load at 2903 fps. These RMR pulls I'm loading are also a bit rough with some deep pull marks on one side of many of them so this may also be a factor I can't control for until I find some new heavy grain bullets for more tweaking.

So a summary for anyone with a 243 who doesn't want to duplex... Use mag primers, fill the case and tap it down and then compress a 100gr. or larger bullet down tightly and go find your rifle's sweet spot (working with the COL and Bullet). If I can get this speed and a 1" (5 shot) group out of a 22" barrel, chances are good that with a little work you will find this powder VERY USEFUL INDEED!

Cheers All,

Txnagal

[cowboybart]

Good info - don't be a stranger!:popcorn:

[9w1911]

I sold my jug before I bought my 30-30 lever and now I am wishing I still had it

[Hamish]

Bump ttt

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I bought 3 jugs of this powder some time ago because the price was right, and it still is at $72 for an 8 pound jug. Lately I have been doing load developement for my upcoming deer hunt using my 270 Win.

I went to the range yesterday and with 130 gr barnes triple shock bullets, 63.5 grs of WC857 and Winchester primers I got just over 1" groups at 2900 fps in my FN model 98 with 26" shilen bbl. No signs of excessive pressure. No unburned kernels in bore. With compressing another grain of powder may be possible. Looks like I will have 270 fodder for quite a while. I would guess that the powders performance will do well with heavier bullets as well, maybe better. I am going to have to try it with the 160 gr partition for elk.

bumping this thread.
I may consider loading some Wc857 in 30-06 with heavy cast boolits.

[Yodogsandman]

Has anyone used any cast boolit loads with this powder?

[Lloyd Smale]

id stop right there. Your getting great accuracy and good velocity as is. Compressing ball powders can get you into problems. that load will do fine for anything the 270 was ever designed for.
I bought 3 jugs of this powder some time ago because the price was right, and it still is at $72 for an 8 pound jug. Lately I have been doing load developement for my upcoming deer hunt using my 270 Win.

I went to the range yesterday and with 130 gr barnes triple shock bullets, 63.5 grs of WC857 and Winchester primers I got just over 1" groups at 2900 fps in my FN model 98 with 26" shilen bbl. No signs of excessive pressure. No unburned kernels in bore. With compressing another grain of powder may be possible. Looks like I will have 270 fodder for quite a while. I would guess that the powders performance will do well with heavier bullets as well, maybe better. I am going to have to try it with the 160 gr partition for elk.

[khmer6]

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Surplus/Datapages/30_06.html
They are slow as turtles but cheap :-) Big cases like them. Buying by the case to max out hazmat doesn't break the bank as does commercial powder.
857, 860, 870, 872 all really slow. Compare burn rates to can grade powders and work your way up. You may or may not burn all the kernels :Fire::Fire: