Ruger does Kel Tech

[MtGun44]

Check out:

http://www.ruger.com/LCP/index.html

Near dead copy of the Kel Tech - a bit heavier, haven't checked the dimensions
except I know it is about 0.1" thicker from memory.

Very, very similar design -

Bill

[S.R.Custom]

Very interesting....

[GSPKurt]

Hope it's more reliable than the Kel-Tec.

[Dr. A]

Wonder if they'll follow suit with a 9mm?

[MtGun44]

More reliable? Hmmm. I have had mine for a 3-4 years with 100%
reliability, and have had as many of my CCW class students try it out as were
interested (maybe a dozen) to see if different grips and hand size might be
an issue. 100% reliable. My brother has had one for a few months, a few
boxed thru his - he has had some issues with hollowpoints, but it feeds ball
100%. Mine feeds Horn XTP hp, Golden Saber and a couple others plus flat
nose FMJ and regular ball 100%, maybe 12 or so boxes of ammo thru it so far.
Not really a lot, but enough for me to trust it.

Have you had one that didn't work or just heard about it? I know that my
brother's P3AT has a different extractor spring than mine (external leaf
rather than the internal coil of mine), maybe in response to problems??

I couldn't be happier with mine.

As to the 9mm question, I think the SR9 is the new 9mm - plastic frame, striker
fired, kinda similar to the LRC, except the P3AT and LRC are dbl action only
with internal hammers.


Bill

[scrapcan]

I think the issue is with the 9mm and using a small locked breech design action. You may need a locked breach, more slide mass, and spring weight to contain the 9x19.

I do not own a keltec, but have been looking for a P3AT for quite some time. Not many in my area that are resold. More P32. I have several friends who are instructors that have the 3At and they are reliable. P11 and a P40 also in the mix. The P40 is somewhat of a handfull to shoot and is finicky with some loads.

I look forward to the ruger.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I actually see the Ruger copy as another sad development on their history. I remember a time when Ruger came up with quite a few good designs on their own. Then they sold out to the government with the elimination of their high cap mags and now they copy current designs.

I've not bought a Ruger in a long time because of the high cap sellout and seeing them copy another manufacturer instead of developing their own doesn't encourage me to buy another.

Maybe I'm just too picky. Wouldn't buy a S & W when they were owned by the Brits either.

Dave

[MtGun44]

I'm a mech engineer and have fully dissassembled (or nearly so) the P3AT,
to examine how it works and is designed. Just can't stand it, gotta take it
apart to see what makes it tick.

Frankly, while I am pretty familiar with dozens of pistol designs, I was very
impressed at the simplicity and elegant design of the P3AT. There are only
a couple of details that I might do differently if I was designing it. I imagine
that if I was given the assignment to design a modern pocket pistol in
.380 caliber, it would wind up looking a lot like a P3AT just be cause they
pretty much got it right. A bit like most semi-autos being a lot like a 1911
or Browning HP for quite some time - they were pretty much as good as you
could do. Also, the materials (particular alloys of steel and aluminum and even
the plastic) would have been my personal first choices, also. They did a
really good job with the basic concept. Whether there are bugs in some,
apparently they had some trouble with the extractor springs, or thought
it could be made cheaper and as good, so they changed it.

Everybody and his dog are making 1911s nowdays, not a bad thing to
recognize a superior design.

As to the mention of blow back - the KelTech P3AT is a fully locked breech
pistol, as is the SR9, the P32 and other Keltechs are also locked breech.

Bill

[Shepherd2]

I'd say that the people at Ruger know a good thing when the see it. They sure made a close copy of Kel Tec's design. At first glance you think it's a Kel Tec.

I've had my P3AT for 4+ years now and it's been 100% reliable. I've shot it with a bunch of different factory hollow point and FMJ ammo and haven't had the first failure of any kind. I've also found that it's pretty accurate too.

The last gun show I went to there were Kel Tec .380s everywhere. Must be popular. That's probably why Ruger copied it.

[scrapcan]

Mtgun44,

Thanks for the catch on the locked breach. I did not fully express my thoughts. I corrected my earlier post.

It must be pretty difficult to make a small locked breach pistol the size of the P3AT to handle the 9X19. It is also pretty difficult to make the 380 in this size if you do not use a locked breach to slow the momentum a bit.

Shepherd2,
I have been looking at gunshows and shops for 2 years and have yet to find a good used P3AT. We just now are seeing the PF9. Lots of P32s that are over priced though.

[Shepherd2]

I don't recall seeing any used P3ATs. I'm pretty sure that all I've seen at gun shows have been new. Could be that people are hanging on to them. I know I am.

[Maxthompson]

The Kell tec 9 we had would often fail to fire with factory ammo. I traded it for a 38 revolver as my wife's carry gun. she didn't think she should have to pull the trigger more than once to make it fire.

mike

[Jim]

I noticed 2 things right off the rip. Only one mag and an 8 pound trigger pull.

[dannyabear]

Looks like Taurus is doing Kel Tec too;
New PT709 exact copy of KT PF9

[MtGun44]

Searching on the Taurus site for PT709 or 709 returns no results and
I looked at all the medim and small frame pistols listed, found no 709.

Do you have a link?

Bill

[dannyabear]

I saw the pic and read article on page 3 report of the shot how, but i don't remember where it was. I'll go look. I think if you search google it comes up.

[dannyabear]

Taurusarmed.net/forums

I can't find the article i was refering to, but it was a review of new products at the shop show by a couple of editors for a gun mag.

[dannyabear]

Pictures also in kel tech section of bersatalk.com/forums

[cbr]

I have one of the first kel-tec P3AT's, and it sucked at first, jamming at least once a magazine, but after a trip back to the factory, it now works 100%. Still have a hard time trusting it though. Several guys I know have the newer ones, and they seem to work great.