.30 Carbine Blackhawk

[BruceB]

You'd think I'd know better, at my advanced age.

Nope.

Recently I formulated a "need" for a .30 Blackhawk. Why? Who knows? I don't hunt any more, can't walk after varmints.... but I can still SHOOT!

So... a good friend bought a gorgeous New Model .30 from a Gunbroker seller, and then turned around and sold it to me before he'd even seen the gun. He lives a long way from where I hang out.

Another Cast Boolits friend delivered it to me on Thursday.

The revolver is virtually new. It has no turn line on the cylinder, and the blue on the face of the cylinder shows NO sign that it's ever been fired.

Trigger pull is 44 ounces, with no creep, no take-up, and no over-travel.... perfect! In a New Model!?!?!?

A Hornady .30-caliber rifle bullet will not drop through the chamber throats. They require a firm push with a rod. Those bullets measure precisely .3080".

Cartridges loaded with Hornady 90-grain XTP bullets, cataloged at .309", chamber nicely. Those loaded with 311359 Lymans at .311".... do not. Those 311359 loads function perfectly in my GI Carbine, but need some modification for the Ruger.

I installed an RCBS .30 Carbine sizing die in my press, just deep enough to lightly "kiss" cartridges loaded with the .311" bullets. Success. The rounds now chamber nicely in the revolver.

The M1 Carbine is not exactly a bench-rest rifle, so I expect no bad effects from slightly down-sizing the front ends of those rounds. I have a bullet-sizing die MARKED .309" (Heaven knows what size it really produces) so I'll try that the next time I run a batch of .30 M1.

This should be a good-shooting revolver. The cylinder locks up TIGHTLY with no perceptible movement at all, and this is true even if the gun is cocked s-l-o-w-l-y. I'm looking forward to the first range trip.

[williamwaco]

Mine is very accurate but very tight throats.

Have to seat a .311 cast bullet quite deep to get it to chamber.

[osteodoc08]

Double up. Plugs and muffs!

Nice find.

[C. Latch]

My grandpa had one. LOUD.

Fun, though.

[Reg]

Most tend to be very accurate but do wear plugs and muffs, they are kinda noisy.

[BethelHntr]

They are super loud and a blast to shoot.

[Combat Diver]

I had one back in the late 80s. As stated double up on hearing protection and enjoy! (also had a M1 Carbine) :Fire:


CD

[theperfessor]

Congrats on your acquisition! I've always heard they were noisy. More than a .357 at supersonic velocities? Why? I have never owned, shot, or heard one so I'm totally ignorant and going off what I've read. I have a .357 BH w/6.5" barrel and its pretty noisy with top loads.

[Artful]

It's the frequency of the noise, .30 Carbine cuts like a knife - much more so than 357's boom
- it's a sharper crack - maybe it's the bore size or maybe the pressures.

357 magnum 35,000 PSI vs 30 Carbine's 40,000 psi

[375supermag]

I do not know anything about why the .30Carbine is so loud when fired in a BlackHawk.

All I know, is that I want one. Unfortunately, every time I stumble across one it is either in poor shape or I am financially challenged at that particular moment.

I never seem to see one when I am flush with cash.

Eventually, the cash, the opportunity and a good quality revolver will come together at the same time and then I will have to go buy another set of loading dies and a supply of bullets.

[williamwaco]

The noise is because half the powder is burning outside the barrel.

You are firing a cartridge designed for an 18 inch barrel in a 6 inch barrel.

If you will load it with a faster pistol powder, like Unique, it will tone it down quite a bit.

.
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BUT

It will still be loud.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I load and shoot the 30 Carb in a Ruger and do very well with it. With GI ammo it is very loud. I use the RCBS 30 cal grain bullet with 5.0 grains to 5.5 grains of Unique so the report it essentially a sharp crack. Accuracy is good. Another variation that can be used is the use of 32-20 cases slightly shortened (with the same bullet); advantage is that the round seats on the rim rather than the case mouth. Accuracy is again very good. The original writeup on this was done by Beagle--a well known member on this forum and further info as well as other designs of bullets than can be used, can be found on castpics file. Worth reading up on if you work with this revolver. LLS

[FLHTC]

I used to use 32-20 brass in mine. I am just partial to rimmed handgun cartridges and the 32-20 case works perfectly in the Carbine revolver. I did this until I acquired a Buckeye, then sold the Carbine. The 32-20 brass blows out nicely and although a tiny bit shorter than Carbine brass, it head spaces on the rim to provide positive primer strikes with the shorter case. Accuracy is good and you'll never have to trim your cases. Enjoy. I also use the 311359 in my 32's. It's a great hunting bullet for the 32 H&R, 32-20 and the 327 Federal.

[John Allen]

Bruce, I have wanted one for years too. I have no good reason myself for wanting one.

[pworley1]

The best reason to have one is just because. And plus one on the unique.

[SWANEEDB]

Want to light up the night, shoot it at night, fire belching out the barrel, from both sides of the cylinder, quite a few years ago I did have one, fun gun but must not have been that much fun cause it left me, think I even loaded some 125gr .310 bullets, same as the AK round but don't remember how they worked.

[mac60]

I have the same tight throat issue with mine. As mentioned, with a max load of H110 it is LOUD. I shot mine Saturday. Had a ball shooting a plate rack at 25 yds. Had it loaded with the Lee C309-120-R (sized .309 lubed with TAC1, alum. checks) over 5 gr. Unique in a RP case with a WSR primer.

[historicfirearms]

Great, thanks Bruce, now I want one too. It would make a good pair with my Marlin 94 in 32-20, or the M1 carbine...

[41mag]

To be honest I have never found the noise to be of issue. I find my other revolvers in .357 and up much more of an issue.

Growing up there were many times when my pop would tell me that they had come out with a revolver in .30 Carbine and he wished he had purchased one. When most folks were punching paper with .22's we were popping off rounds through a couple of Carbines. While we did shoot the .22's they were for putting meat on the tables in the forms of rabbits and squirrels so we didn't waste rounds on simply punching paper.

Anywhoo, I had mine out a week or so back to try out some cast loads through it. I have shot a number of different jacketed loads up to and probably over what is recommended in most of today's books. That said I wanted to know right up front if the loads were going to work on the upper end or not. So I loaded up some of the MP 314-640's which with the Lg HP drop around 116grs or so with my alloy. I also loaded up the same number of the Accurate 31-115H over the exact same loads. Those weighed in at about the same from quenched COWW. All were sized to .310" and lubed with Carnuba Red.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119860&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1413894521

I know this isn't much to look at but here is my target from about 15yds standing freehand.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119859&d=1413931854

I know it doesn't look like it but the AA-9 and 2400 loads both shot pretty well. I didn't have any leading to speak of from any of the loads and found everything to be pretty fun to be honest.

After gettign back home I shot a note over to Tom at Accurate to see about what it might take to possibly get that 31-115H up to a bit heavier weight and possibly with a GC on the bottom. It only took a short while before he was back with the following added to the catalog,
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-125F-D.png

While it might not be for everyone I think it wil make a dandy litle critter getter not only in the Blackhawk, but also in my 30-30 AI Contender and possibly even my .308. Even though the lighter one does work fine with it's plain base, I feel like the heavier one with the check will maybe allow the use of some softer alloy than I used on the others and possibly with the bigger cases under them a good bit more velocity as well. Only a few more paydays and I will be placing the order to find out.:bigsmyl2:

[USAFrox]

Man, I really want one of those. I have no good, valid reason other than I WANT one, but man, do I want one.

Great find! Hope you enjoy it!

[BruceB]

Thanks for all the insightful comments.

For the present, I'll stay with the load that I'm using in the M1 Carbine, which is 12.0 2400 under the 311359. I hope that it will shoot reasonably well in the revolver, but time will tell. I see little point in having two different loads for a rifle/handgun pair.

NVCurmudgeon is my compadre for shooting excursions (and MANY other activities) and he shoots a .32-20 Marlin. Maybe I'll cadge a few of his loads and try them in the Ruger, too.

The noise level will be interesting to experience, as the only loads I've ever fired in a Ruger .30 were factory-made, and yes, they were obnoxious.

Perfessor, I note your comment on the 6.5" .357. This is one of my "wants" right now for some reason... my favorite dealer has an Old Model (three screw) 6.5" .357 which has had the factory conversion performed on it to make it a transfer-bar action. He does NOT have the original parts. Condition is excellent, price is $400. I'm thinking about it.

With one oddball exception, this is the first time I've owned a rifle/handgun pairing for the same cartridge. The last one was about fifty years ago, and the cartridge was .303 British (I SAID it was an oddball, didn't I???)

[41mag]

For the present, I'll stay with the load that I'm using in the M1 Carbine, which is 12.0 2400 under the 311359. I hope that it will shoot reasonably well in the revolver, but time will tell. I see little point in having two different loads for a rifle/handgun pair.

I completely understand. I rarely shoot the M1's anymore. Maybe once in a while with the grandsons but that is it. I picked up the MP mold mainly to run through my little Ruger Compact .308" and the Tender in 30-30 AI as small critter getters. The Accurate 115H just looked like a miniature version of some of the "Hammer of Thor" bullets that seem so popular in the big bores, so I had to try it, and it actually shoots pretty darned well for a picked powder charge. I can only imagine it will improve with a little tweaking.

But like mentioned after giving it some thought, I just felt like a little more length / weight might give it a bit more versatility with the calibers I already have with more capacity. Besides, I been itchin to try coming up with something that wasn't really available anyway. I also have an eye on the 31-105K and the 31-120K, I mean why have a revolver if your not going to have at least one Keith type to go with it right?:mrgreen:

[Cornbread]

Man, I really want one of those. I have no good, valid reason other than I WANT one, but man, do I want one.

Great find! Hope you enjoy it!

I am right there with you. There is literally nothing around here that I could use it for other than if I started hand gunning when I predator call instead of using the .308.......well now that I say that I might have a use for it :).......but seriously right now nothing I handgun hunt qualifies for using this but I have wanted one FOREVER!

......I do have a weekend neighbor who put a white trash cabin (tow behind hard side camping trailer) on the south end of his property up against the border with mine. He is a quarter mile away and only comes up and hangs out there drinking and 4-wheeling during the summer and during deer season on some weekends. I like to shoot about 200 rounds of 454 Casull every evening when he is up there having his campfire dinner in reply to his stupid noisy machines all day long. I might just have to get one of these instead of just wanting one and shoot about 1,000 rounds through it every evening he is up here. From how loud you guys are saying this is, it just might be the ticket :)

[T-Bird]

Mine is a late 60s gun no alterations. Likes the Lee "soupcan" sized 309 over 12gr IMR 4227 CCI small rifle primer. Can hit a beverage can from a rest at 70yds.2x scope Shoot straight T-Bird

[FLHTC]

I am right there with you. There is literally nothing around here that I could use it for other than if I started hand gunning when I predator call instead of using the .308.......well now that I say that I might have a use for it :).......but seriously right now nothing I handgun hunt qualifies for using this but I have wanted one FOREVER!

......I do have a weekend neighbor who put a white trash cabin (tow behind hard side camping trailer) on the south end of his property up against the border with mine. He is a quarter mile away and only comes up and hangs out there drinking and 4-wheeling during the summer and during deer season on some weekends. I like to shoot about 200 rounds of 454 Casull every evening when he is up there having his campfire dinner in reply to his stupid noisy machines all day long. I might just have to get one of these instead of just wanting one and shoot about 1,000 rounds through it every evening he is up here. From how loud you guys are saying this is, it just might be the ticket :)

You must be a helluva guy!

[cbrick]

The throats on mine are uniform to .3083" to .3087", really good for Ruger throats that I've measured.

If you should decide to play with loads mine loves the combination of 10-10.5 gr SR4759, 311410 and California ground squirrels. It liked that bullet so well I got two MP 311410 HP's, one four cav in GC and one PB. The little Ruger liked the PB so much with that load I haven't yet used the GC mold. This load also goes a long way to calm down the accurately reported noise level from this revolver. If you do try this powder groups just started to come in at 9.0 gr, much better at 10.0.

As soon as ya get out and shoot it you'll see what a fun gun this really is. Enjoy.

Rick

[MarkP]

120016

I sure like mine, as everyone has stated they are unusually loud with full loads. They have an M80 like concussion even more than a 44 mag with full loads using light 180 gr bullets. If using indoors plugs and muffs are not a bad idea. I shot several 93 gr Hornady RN's in mine, they were a special run for the Old Western Scrounger in the early 90's, and the classic 110 fmj's with 296, now I have been using the 113 gr LEE FN, LEE 120 gr RN, and 312-93 with small charges of faster powders.
Several years ago on occasion the cylinder would start to bind when using factory ball ammo . Similar to the S&W M 53's in 22 Jet.

Thin rimmed 32-20's will fit in the chamber, some guys like the rim for headspacing. I tried them but never really saw the need to do this.

I am sure you will enjoy it they are fun to shoot, the 7-1/2" bbl feels perfect. I added a Superblack Hawk grip frame to mine when it was only a weeks days old.

I always thought it would neat to have a S&W M 14 in 30 M1.

[Ickisrulz]

I have had good luck following the loads Beagle recommends in his write up using 311008 bullets sized to .311 and 32-20 brass. I bought a die from CH4d that sizes the 32-20 brass to 30 Carbine dimensions, but with a tighter neck to hold the bullets. 32-20 dies work fine too. I have used Unique, 2400 and Lil' Gun with good success and accuracy acceptable to me.

[runfiverun]

32-20 loads work just fine.
3.5 grs of 700-x under a 98gr rcbs rnfp does right well on stuff like rabbits, grouse, rock chucks, etc.
I even shot a deer with it.
there was no drama with the deer either, about 4 steps and a face plant.
I did take a full broadside shot through the lungs just above the heart and was patient.

[cbrick]

Deer huh? I've not done that with it. I never even grouped it on paper, I grouped on minute of ground squirrel. Several of them tried to apologize for digging up the birms at the range but didn't quite have time to get it out. Bang, flap, no more digging, apology accepted.

Deer huh? Hhmmm . . . na, I'm gonna use the Ruger 45 Colt this year, it's still a virgin and I gotta fix that.

Rick

[runfiverun]

it's what I had in the truck at the time [shrug] :lol:
I shot a deer with a 200 gr speer bullet on top of 15 grs of unique in my 8 mauser once, for the same reason..

you just don't pass up an opportunity at a deer out here, it ain't like back east where they get to vote and have shelters set up downtown and stuff, deer are few and far between.
I can go 2-3 years and not even see a buck, and I can count the does I have seen this year on my fingers.
I'm out at all hours of the day and night in places where they should be, they just ain't here anymore.

[cbrick]

Hhmmm . . . Do ya have any of them gubment installed wolves in that area?

Rick

[Cornbread]

Hhmmm . . . Do ya have any of them gubment installed wolves in that area?

Rick

We do/did. Last couple years the locals around here have made a concerted effort to have everyone fill their wolf tags and our deer and elk populations are magically rebounding.

When not if I get my .30 Carbine Blackhawk I'll have to give it a go on deer. We can get two per year here(1 buck on an A tag and 1 doe on a B tag) and I haven't had any problems getting mine each year but I know a lot of folks around here have had problems. Mostly because you have to get out of the truck and hump the mountains to get them now.....anyway I'll be using the 454 Casull Caliber for the B tag again this year but the pistol I will be shooting is a new one to me.

When I get my .30 though I'll see if I can give it a go with the deer that year.

[cbrick]

What part of NW Montana are you in? I used to have property on Lake Koocanusa about 10-15 miles from Eureka.

Rick

[Cornbread]

What part of NW Montana are you in? I used to have property on Lake Koocanusa about 10-15 miles from Eureka.

Rick

I've got cousins in Eureka, I know the area well. I am over near the border with Idaho(about 30 miles from it as the crow flies). North of Hwy 200 but south of the Canadian border, kind of the middle of nowhere....and if not the middle exactly I bet you can see it from my house.

[Valley Forge]

My buddy just lucked into this old model BH with a 4 digit serial number so we put together some 2400 loads to test using the MP311410. Cylinder throats are real consistent between .309" and .310", the barrel slugs .3086" and we cast the boolits out of WW +2% tin before sizing to .310". I've only shot three other Blackhawks including my own but this one feels exceptionally well fitted. We hope to get out and test these rounds on paper in the next few weeks.
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