sizing rifle brass,Neck only or full length?

[BigGun]

would like to know how you fellows size your rifle brass, I Neck size if the case was
fired in my rifle, If not I full length size. I use Lee's cullet neck sizer.

converting 30-06 to 8 mm. Just run o6 case into 8mm sizing die??? any special lube
needed? should the necks be anealed? I have never upsized or down sized cases,
so am dumb about the procedure.
Later
Ted Kelley

[Buckshot]

would like to know how you fellows size your rifle brass, I Neck size if the case was
fired in my rifle, If not I full length size. I use Lee's cullet neck sizer.

converting 30-06 to 8 mm. Just run o6 case into 8mm sizing die??? any special lube
needed? should the necks be anealed? I have never upsized or down sized cases,
so am dumb about the procedure.
Later
Ted Kelley


Hey Ted! Read your range report on your first foray with your M48. Good job! I pretty much only neck size my cases. Even the straight cases only get about the top third sized. NOw if you are planning to shoot cast in your rifle, you'' need a Lyman type 'M' die. Standard diesets are aimed at jacketed bullets. That is, to HOLD jacketed bullets and they size way to much for a cast slug, which will generally be a couple thousands larger, and much more fragile.

The 'M' die will expand the caseneck back out, and put a flare on the casemouth so you don't scrap any lead or lube off. Now that is a lot of sizing. Your sizer will size the caseneck down quite a bit. Say to about .318" or so. Then when dragging it back out the expander button will open it up to maybe .320". THEN the 'M' die will open it a bit further and add the flare. If you can, get a set of the Lee collet dies.

To make 8x57 from 30-'06 that's basicly all you have to do. Run them up into the 8mm die and then trim. You'd be wise to lube the inside of the caseneck to ease the expander button's trip through the neck. I wouldn't anneal the casenecks until you were done. Otherwise you might collapse the caseneck into the shoulder.

..................Buckshot

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Buckshot,

Do you have to have a Lyman M-die or can you use one of the Lee Universal Expanding dies as well? It's been a while, but I remember reading folks using the Lee die and getting better results in the past. Also, if one has to have the M-die, what's the part number?

Thanks,

Dave

[jonk]

Simple as pie. Lube the cases. Full length size. Trim. Ready to go. Flare the necks as needed- I use the Lee tool when loading cast.

[crowbuster]

Neck size only if shot in my gun. I have 22-250's that have 8-10 loadings without trimming, nothing hot, but saves work when talking thousands of rounds.

C.B.

[felix]

Jonk has the correct solution in all situations. But that requires dies to be absolutely correct for the gun, and only that gun. Minimum size dies, naturally, to size just enough to keep the case absolutely straight no matter how out-of-round the chamber is. Neck sizing only requires that the case be indexed into the chamber for best ignition and boolit release. And, that is a no-no scenario for breaking-in the free-bore plus leade-in in a good barrel. However, there is no point in creating zero run-out ammo when nothing else is straight on anyway. ... felix

[Buckshot]

Buckshot,

Do you have to have a Lyman M-die or can you use one of the Lee Universal Expanding dies as well? It's been a while, but I remember reading folks using the Lee die and getting better results in the past. Also, if one has to have the M-die, what's the part number?

Thanks,

Dave

................Oh no, the Lee unit works too. I have one of those as a matter of fact. Or use needle nose pliers, a punch or most any other round tapered steel object :-)

...............Buckshot

[NuJudge]

For some rifles, full length sizing is absolutely necessary, and even Small Base Full Length sizing may be necessary. All of your semi-autos, and a few bolt actions such as the Swiss K31 need full length sizing for safety or functioning reasons, even if the cartridge case is to be fired in the same rifle. Two .308 M1 rifles of mine won't function without Small Base Full Length sizing.

CDD

[TNsailorman]

I neck size in bolt action rifles that the brass has been fired in that rifle. I full length size when loading for semi-auto rifles or when sizing brass fired in another rifle. As far the the reforming 8mm cases from 30/06, it is not that bad. The way I do it is to remove the decapping rod from the 8x57 die, coat the case with Imperial Wax and slowly run the 30/06 case thru the 8mm die. I do all the 30/06 cases this way that I am going to reform. You now have a 8mm case with a very long neck that has 2 diameters. Then I put the 8mm decapping rod and expander button back into the 8mm die and run the case completely over the expander button and then back out--I do not run it full length into the case as this will crunch the reformed case. The case is still 30/06 length and not 8mm length and is too long for a standard adjusted 8x57 die. I then trim the case to length on a Forster case trimmer with a power attachment (the power attachment is not necessary but it sure makes it easier). I have the length adjusted to 2.235", which is exactly half way between the maximum 2.240" length and the trim to length of 2.230". I then chamfer the inside and the outside mouth of the case and check it on a forster case length gauge. I then tumble the cases to make sure I removed the wax and more importantly, to remove any tiny brass shaving that might be left on the inside or outside of the completed cases. The reformed case is now ready to load and fire. This sounds a lot more involved than it really is but it works and that is what is important. My experience anyway. James

[BigGun]

TNsailorman
thanks for the info, I reformed about 50 06 cases to 8mm yesterday, was not as
difficult as I thought it would be. i used dremal tool with abrasive wheel in it to
cut off the excess neck material, then run thru case trimmer for final length.

thanks to all who posted on this subject . was a great help.we are never to old to
learn a new trick.
thanks again
ted Kelley

[TNsailorman]

ted, Hope I helped someone a little and thank you for your reply. I don't know why I hadn't thought of the dremel tool with a cut off wheel before your reply. I'm going to give it a try, sounds like it will make the process easier. I'm an old codger but I'm still learning--hope I never quit--learning, that is. Thanks, James

[mooman76]

Ted,
Glad you did well. The 30.06 to 8mm is one of the easier conversions. I've done a few myself.

[chuebner]

All of your semi-autos, and a few bolt actions such as the Swiss K31 need full length sizing for safety or functioning reasons, even if the cartridge case is to be fired in the same rifle.

CDD

I think the above statement needs to be qualified to indicate that full-length sizing is required if firing full power J-bullet loads. Cast bullet loads shot at reduced velocities need only neck sizing. In my own case I have shot several thousand cast bullets out of a 1946 and 1953 K31 and have yet to have any problems with the reloads chambering correctly. Currently I have two lots of 100 ea. Graf 7.5X55 Swiss brass that has 27 loadings to date. My procedure has been to full-length size new brass with all the necessary steps of trimming, primer pocket trueing and inside chamfering. I measure each case every three loadings to compare case length to my starting baseline and I then retrim if required. All of my cast bullet reloads are <1800FPS with most around 1450. This same reloading procedure is also applied to 30-06 and 7.62X54R. I turned a friend on to this procedure who adopted it for his cast bullet reloads for his 7.62X39 SKS. He has no problem with functioning or cycling. This works for us and as they say "your mileage may vary".

Charlie

[singleshotbuff]

FWIW

I ran into a slight problem when forming 8X57 cases from 06 brass, maybe it's just the dimension of my dies.

The 8X57 F/L die wouldn't set the shoulder of the 06 brass far enough back to chamber in my Yugo M48, even though it was screwed all the way into the press and I rough trim the 06 brass to length before running it into the die.

My quick solution was to grind enough off the top of the shellholder to allow the case to go further into the F/L die. Problem solved.

Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, may just be the dimansional combination of my die and shellholder.

SSB

[TNsailorman]

I have never run into that problem myself but have heard of it on more than one reloading site. The consensus of opinion seems to be that some of the old dies/shell holders were to blame. I have an old Lyman X2 shellholder that will not fit into my RCBS Rockchucker or C-H presses. I bought it back in the 60's with a set of Lyman dies when I first started reloading with something other than the Lee Loader sets. The base of the X die seems to be thicker than the current shellholders and the slots in the RCBS. It would be unusual to run into a military rifle that had a very tight chamber but that is also a possibility. Do you have one of the forster or wilson gauges that checks for shoulder dimensions as well as the overall length?

[BigGun]

TNsailorman:
no I don't have the die to check correct shoulder position. I did not have any problem
running the 06 cases into the 8x57 die did not crush cases. My 8x57FL die is a lee,
they could be longer inside than some others, Checked cases in my m48, they
chamber fine. waiting for my 8mm mold to arrive so I can put some cast bullets
down range with my m48. Jacketed bullets gave me good groups with open sights
and my old eyes.
later
Ted Kelley

[mroliver77]

My die setup leaves cases almost too long to chamber In most 8mm guns. The die trick will fix this or take a couple thou off the die bottom. I had one gun that would not chamber cases made from 06 military brass as the necks were too thick.
J