Touchscreen for the Automated Master Caster

[HATCH]

I have been working on this for a little while but finally got it all figured out.
This is for ANYONE that is using a Click PLC.
It doesn't matter if you are running my program or your own.

Here is the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5PCEuMgXoQ

In order for the touchscreen to work you must use a DS for your setpoint.
I highly recommend that you do a default setting when you set it up.
For me I used the defaults that were in my PLC already.
I did this because I have cast 158 grain boolits and 230 grain boolits with those same exact settings.
Its a 10 second cycle. 2 seconds for the safety timer (timer before lead pours) 6 seconds for lead pour/lead cool, and 2 seconds for stroke (mold cool)
Right now I am guessing the amount of time for lead pour.
For my initial setup I intend to leave the external timer in place as a safety. This will allow me to setup a baseline without having my molds being overfilled.

[jmorris]

Looking good. What is the pour time unit?

[HATCH]

I am going to use milliseconds.
the figures I display for lead pour isn't the actual figures as I don't know them yet until I hook everything back up.

Right now lead pour is controlled by a external timer so I have no idea of the exact time it takes to pour lead from a Master Caster to fill a 158 grain boolit (with sprue)
That will be tomorrow afternoon

[HATCH]

I did run into one snag.
When you turn the power on it resets to the default settings. So if you were setup cast 230 gr rn the day before you would have to re-enter the setting via touchscreen.

I have contacted tech support and they said the model we used should retain the setting for up to 3 days after the power was removed.
They are checking to see if the battery model will work. If it does I can RMA the one I have and pay a little additional money for the battery backup model.

[HATCH]

I had a setting wrong.
It now will hold the values for up to 5 days.
It would hold it longer but I didn't get the model that had battery backup.

So for now I switch leadpour to be retained. The other settings revert back to the default.
If its longer then 5 days then lead pour will revert back to zero which is fine.

[jmorris]

I wonder if you could trick it some how. I use the non batt backup versions too and have counters programmed into them. The number they have counted to is always stored in them even after weeks of not being used (no power).

Edit: just checked my 9mm 1050 that I haven't loaded with since April or May and I loaded 4913 rounds on it at the time and there are 87 primers in the tube according to the display.

[HATCH]

well the 5 day time frame is what Automation Direct tech "Jim" says is the time that it should retain the data.
The Jim said 3 days is what they tell people but it would be longer up to maybe 5 days.

I already ordered the batt backup version this morning so it will be here on Monday.
The tech guy said the batt will last 5 years!!!


I am gonna try and squeeze in some shop time this weekend and test the program on a live machine.

I know that with a basic program (v6.1dt), I am using only 70 steps and less then 1% of the space.
So if the 5 day period is based on 100% usage then maybe it will be months.

I figured that someone will want me to build them a control panel for their master caster later or if I really feel froggy I will automate my 650 machine with it.

[MGnoob]

Hay Hatch, Can you provide some links to these units on automation directs page. i've been working on a parts list for a similar project.
I wasn't going to post till i saw "automation direct" I ordered all the parts to build 8 pnumatic Reactive targets which have front "armor and Sillouttes 18x30 1/2" Hardox 500.
I've had all the parts here for 4 weeks now. i was supose to have all the laser cut steel 2 weeks ago and i a a serverl month waist of my time coming up...it's leaving a sour taste in my mouth.

But i wanted to info because when i wrap up this target project, I need to automate my Ballisicast mark X, and my sizers... i am mainly butt-hurt because i am sure my targets will be ready as soon as we have a few feet of snow on the ground.

[HATCH]

The PLC is a C0-00DR-D = $79.00
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/CLICK_Series_PLCs_(Stackable_Micro_Brick)/PLC_Units/C0-00DR-D

If you want battery backup then its a C0-01DR-D $109.00
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/CLICK_Series_PLCs_(Stackable_Micro_Brick)/PLC_Units/C0-01DR-D

Touch screen is a EA1-S3ML $205
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/C-more_Micro-Graphic_Panels/3_inch_Panels_-a-_Accessories/EA1-S3ML

don't forget the program cable -
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/C-more_Micro-Graphic_Panels/3_inch_Panels_-a-_Accessories/EA-MG-PGM-CBL

[jmorris]

I already ordered the batt backup version this morning so it will be here on Monday.
The tech guy said the batt will last 5 years!!!

I have a very old Kenwood pull out radio that uses a capacitor to retain station presets, after sitting for years I was curious to see if it still retained any of them, wired it up and turned it on and was amazed that it did. Guess it depends on how much power it requires to keep the memory but if it is the same as that radio the 5 year limit is likely because batteries will only last that long on a shelf with no drain.

[HATCH]

I had to tweak the programming a little more to get lead pour to function correctly.
Its at 100% right now.
A 230 grain lead round nose takes 630ms of lead pour (including sprue).
Now I need to add the auto-manual setup so I can operate the machine manually but use auto lead pour.
It should take too long. Just taking a break right now.

[MGnoob]

Thx Hatch, I am still doing alot of research now.
Mine is a mark X 4 mold position
So i am thinking 2-4 tampers located in position 3 and 4 to guarantee sprue/projectile drop.
My machine has 2 fans that i want to auto start/stop base on the mold temp
I want a level sensor on the lead pot

I will probibly set mine up with a start-up mode that runs slower to heat the holds, i think electric preheating the molds will be too complicated.You will also be able to hand opperate it for startup/trouble shooting if nessisary.I like the idea of manual pull---- auto lead pour.

I may have mold posistioning sensor so i could run less than 4 molds, it would also keep the lead from pouring everywhere if for some reason the is only a partial stoke(this could also be achieved by magmenti sensor on the piston, but the mold positioning sensor offer more flexibibly)

I am rapidly approching 100,000 9mm on this machine aswell as 25,000 other projectiles on this $3K unit, i seen no reason not to spend between 1k-2k to have a truely automated machine.. i am probably going to go all pneumatic so the price will include a nicer compressor...i still kindor want to go electric but the motor and drive alone along with a clutch will approach $1000 alone...the pneumatic seems alot more versatile.

[HATCH]

Update - added manual/auto lead pour to the touchscreen.
Going to add double tap to it as well.
Goal is to have only three hardwire switches on the front of the panel.
Main power, start and stop.
The rest will be virtual.

Anyone want a good deal on a complete working Wyman/hatch control panel???

[HATCH]

Totally rewrote the program this morning.
Down to 58 steps.
Did away with redundant timers.
Didn't need two timers for mold cool (single tap and double tap)
Didn't need two times for the safety delay at the top.
Cleaned up the lead pour section too.

[Tazza]

Impressive.

Can't wait till we can see the final unit with tappers and touch screen!

[HATCH]

It will be at least two weeks before its up and running. Next pics and video will be up and running.

Panel will be rebuilt and program redone again as I am adding features.

[Tazza]

I'm sure you will be forever tweaking it. You will think of different things to add to make it even better. It's a shame the code needs re-writing for a lot of it, but with only 1% of available space used, you have a lot of wiggle room to make it even better.

Are you still going to install a double acting air cylinder?

Mine goes well with the new cylinder but as expected, it does more damage to projectiles that get stuck between the mold halves. They come out flatter than the spring return setup. I have restrictors on the way to try and tame the beast some, it may prevent the flung projectiles too.

So far the projectile count in auto mode is at about 54k, not too shabby. Plus a good 24k in manual mode when i bought the machine. I think it has paid for its self.

[HATCH]

The code only is being rewritten so many times right now because of the many features that the touchscreen offers.
It don't need fan control on the touchscreen. I don't need to do a manual -auto lead pour mode.
This are just features that I thought of that would be cool to have.
After I assemble the new panel I will be done writing code as it will have all the features I want then.
I changed a output so I have enough with the tappers that i don't need the expander.

I plan to do tappers two ways.
One is pure PLC control and the other is via limit switch and timing relay.
Ultimately its going to be on the PLC.

[Advil]

How is the situation for the PLC code going to be for those of us with the non-touchscreen setup? I could spend the money to move up to that, but I really don't cast a wide enough array of bullets to justify it. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to just have the tapper run by the PLC instead of another external relay but at this point I really don't care which.

Although, if I did go the touchscreen route... I am planning on setting up a second MC in the next year or so. Could one touchscreen handle both casting machines? (controlling two PLC computers?)

You could say I'm seriously chomping at the bit to see what you have going with the tappers because sticking .38 bullets is my single major issue. Everything else has been simply awesome.

[HATCH]

Great questions...

If its my program then it will require a new version as the set points in the timing blocks are fixed set points not dynamic. The touchscreen don't change them or even look at them.

You can update the program without rewiring anything. Lead pour would still be external and you basically would be able to change all the timers in the program.
If you want to do lead pour 100% via touchscreen you will need to move one wire off of the external timing relay.

Now if all you want is tappers, thats easy.
I plan to write a version of 6.1dt that has the tappers with no touchscreen.

The entire PLC program is timers.
To add tappers you will need a couple timers.
Basically after the movement timer starts you do a delay on start of about 1/2 a second or so. This will allow the mold to make it to the bottom.
Then you use another timer to do the pulse. This is kinda like what I am currently doing for the double tap feature.

To use a external relay then you will need a limit switch at the bottom and the timer.
Both methods will require a additional air valve and of course the little air cylinder.

Once I get the touchscreen program with all the bells and whistles finished I will make it available to those who gotten the program before.
In order to get the touchscreen program you will need to send me your PLC and the touchscreen.
The touchscreen program is locked to the PLC so it can not be read or any changes made with the PC.
Sorry I have to do it this way but I am tired of finding copies of my program being used by people that I didn't send it to.

[Tazza]

It's a shame it had to go that way, but if it was abused you have to do something. Kayak1 was kind enough to give me a copy of his arduino source code. I didn't write it, so i would never give it out, it was for him to decide who gets a copy. It should be the same with your code, it is for you to distribute, no one else.

As the PLC can do the lead pour, i'd like for it to be done that way, it saves the purchase of an external timer. It can then be stored in the PLC for later retrieval or at least the numbers written down.

[jmorris]

It's a shame it had to go that way, but if it was abused you have to do something....It should be the same with your code, it is for you to distribute, no one else.

Like he said the problem is solved if he downloads them to the PLC and display himself instead of sending out the program for others to load. Shipping will likely be less than the adapter from USB to the PLC anyway.

[HATCH]

With the touchscreen you will have no reason to access the programming inside the PLC.

[HATCH]

Here is a tease...

[Tazza]

It looks a lot neater, not many buttons and switches or knobs.

[bbqncigars]

It's always nice to see someone elses usage of modern controls. I just rigged my LNL AP up to an old Allen-Bradley 5/04 SLC and a Panelview 300 micro for free. We were purging our old stock at work, so I scored a processor with full I/O rack. Coupled with some free touch screen units, this gives me the flexibility to run the entire house (if I wanted to). I would love to have one of the current HD color touch screens, but then I'd probably spend waaaay to much time messing with the screens. Touch screens and PLCs are a wonderful and highly flexible combination that is only limited by the I/O capabilities.

[jmorris]

I just rigged my LNL AP up to an old Allen-Bradley 5/04 SLC and a Panelview 300 micro

We need a new thread with photos and video.

[HATCH]

Still haven't made much progress. Going tomorrow to get the mounting bar drilled and tapped for the larger thread that is on the dual acting air cylinder.
There is a local machine shop that can do the work tomorrow. They closed at noon on Friday or it would of been done already.
Ordered the quick exhaust valves today. Hoping next weekend will be the weekend its running.
I got so much to do and need the machine up and running.

[Tazza]

You need Jmorris to live next door, he has some fancy machine tapping gear :)
Good to hear you are going to get the bar ready tomorrow for the new cylinder, nothing worse than being at some one else mercy to get things done. Looking forward to seeing how it all functions and the addition of the quick exhaust valves.

My restrictors arrived on Thursday, but i have the "pleasure" of painting inside my house in the heat, Sunday was 40c (104f) that was not one bit of fun.

I have been there with the needing it to run. I got down to my last hundred projectiles when i got mine going. I had comps coming up and time was really getting close, but it made it. I think i had under a week to spare!

[HATCH]

Lucky you. Its going to be in the mid 40s f for a high most this week. Tomorrow is the only warm day with high being 70f

[Tazza]

We never get cold winters, but i really don't love the heat, not one bit!

I think i have enough of a stock pile of casting done till it cools off again at least, i don't want to be playing in the heat feeding a casting machine.

Hopefully i will get time to play with the restrictors though, even if i don't get to heat the pot up, i can at least have them and mostly dialed in for when i do.

[jmorris]

I have been waiting for an update, I hate it when work gets in the way of work.

Cold in the shop here too. 31 right now kind of figured global warming would have gave me a little more time to split some wood before t got cold here.

[Tazza]

It's good to see i'm not the only one lurking waiting on updates :)

[HATCH]

Local shop wanted $50 min charge the drill and thread the part. I told them to just make a new one and he agreed to just $20 to thread and tap it. I understand min shop fees but a cash walk in customer shouldn't have to pay a min for such a small job.

[Tazza]

I guess everyone needs to make a living, but $50 to drill and tap a few holes is a bit crazy. Glad you got them to charge a reasonable price for the job, some would not budge as they know they have you over a barrel.

[HATCH]

I totally understand the min charge.
The problem is the overhead to just process the job.
You have to pay the women to process the payment. If by card then you got those fees too.

Once I explained the whole CASH and carry process he was cool with it. I was dealing with the owner (well one of the sons)
He asked if I wanted a receipt. I said HECK no, thats why I paid cash.

Its done. I made the air manifold today. 1 in 3 out. Just brass fittings we had at work.

[Tazza]

That is a good way to get a better price. The work on do on hydraulic machinery, the place my dad and i get the seals from, we say this is what i want, paying cash, no receipt, oddly enough we get looked after.

Sadly my current manifold is still done with plastic air hose and a Y connector, doesn't look pretty, but does the job. When i hook up the third solenoid (tappers), i'll need to find another Y or a three way splitter. I'd like to mount the solenoid closer to the cylinders though. Currently my air solenoids are at the back of the machine, i'd like to use minimal air hose to the tappers for a higher cyclic rate.

[Tazza]

Oh, hopefully i will get time this arvo to install the flow restrictors while i bake a load of coated projectiles. With a bit of luck they will operate how i think they should work. Things will probably need adjusting when it's up to temperature, but as long as they are installed and mostly tuned in, i'll be happy.

Without the impact at the end of the stroke, i may have more of an issue with stuck projectiles meaning i need to play with a tapper setup. We'll see what happens.

[Tazza]

I got a few spare minutes today, so i installed the restrictors into the double acting cylinder. It worked pretty well actually, it really needs tappers now, but the movement is very smooth.

Here is a video of it running:
http://vid903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/master%20caster/20141118_165907.mp4

You can see my mold tapper in action, good 'ol screw driver handle :)

[HATCH]

that's a expensive tapper setup.

I use this -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Push-In-Style-Flow-Speed-Control-Fitting-1-4-OD-1-8-NPT-/260511177196?

On my new setup I have a manifold that is screwed to the side of the control panel.
On the two ports closest to me, I have the flow regulators. This is so I can adjust them easily.
This is the incoming air manifold. It is after the regulator (set at 70psi)
One in and 3 out.
Two ports have the flow restrictors on them for the movement air cylinder.
The third port will be split at the air valves to go to the tappers and lead pour.
I have inline flow restrictors that I will use on the tappers (before the air valve).

You want to install the flow restrictors before the air valves. This way when you are exhausting the air it isn't regulated.
On my spring return setup I use a air restrictor in the supply (before valve) and on the exhaust port of the valve.
This allowed me to slow both ways.
With going to the double acting air cylinder I will (or should) only need them before each air valve.

[jmorris]

Here is a video of it running:
http://vid903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/master%20caster/20141118_165907.mp4

You can see my mold tapper in action, good 'ol screw driver handle :)

That looks much less violent than others I have seen and love the tapper.

[Tazza]

Hatch - Those are the same style restrictors i got from Hong Kong for about $4 each, it just took a while to arrive.

The "tapper" was attached to a rather expensive sidchrome tool kit i got for my 18th :)

My restrictors screw into the cylinder so air going in and out is slowed down for smooth operation. My air valves use pilot pressure to operate, i don't know they would work properly if i had a restrictor mounted at the inlet to it. I like your setup so you can adjust the air at the control box.

Jmorris - it really tamed the beast down a lot, before it was quite violent. It runs more like yours does now, slow and smooth. I'd like to think it would last longer this way too as there is no impact on parts.

[Advil]

Another benefit I can see is you don't need the annoying sprue screen... makes it a lot easier to reach in and lube the mold or whatever.

[Tazza]

So very true, without the restrictors the sprues would be flung in all different directions......

[jmorris]

I'd like to think it would last longer this way too as there is no impact on parts.

I would think there should be little doubt about that.

[HATCH]

I think you could polish your mold and be good without the tapper

[Tazza]

Polish and smoke may do it some good. The sprue plate has slight surface rust it needs a polish too... I can't remember who it was, but another member did this to theirs, good to know it worked for me too.

[wymanwinn]

I think you could polish your mold and be good without the tapper

i use Bullplate on the underside of the sprue plate, top of the mold, MC centering rails and sprue pivots....rarely a stuck bullet.....i coat those areas about once an hour......:))))

[Tazza]

The issue for me is finding it in .au I do drop a little synthetic oil on the pivot points.

[wymanwinn]

The issue for me is finding it in .au I do drop a little synthetic oil on the pivot points.

go here..... http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?215439-The-Bull-Shop

bet they would be happy to mail ya some.....

wyman

[Tazza]

Thanks Wyman, i'll harass them and see what the go is.

[chloe123]

Operation is smooth. I hadn't noticed in your other videos that you have 2 cylinders operating your mold carrier.

i know you guys were taking about the nil affect of flow restrictors on pressure but it seems--and I get that I may be wrong--that the large bore size of the air cylinder enables this steady action.

I've been busy and haven't run my machine since a few weeks back but my flow restrictor doesn't really have that same affect. When I was adjusting it(after the comments to slow it down a bit) I noticed it helped in slowing the speed down but I'm pretty sure there was a point in which the cylinder simply wouldn't fully extend and would stall. In the vid above, there appears to be a bit of downward force despite the slow speed--it's very nice. It kinda proves(if the boolits drop more reliably) that the forcing the handle down aggressively isn't really related to boolits dropping from the mold

[Tazza]

The two cylinders you see on mine, one is the main air ram, the other is a gas strut, this was to get the mold carrier to return reliably to under the pour spout with a single acting cylinder. I don't think it is needed any more.

The larger the cylinder will produce more power if the pressure is the same. I can't see that a larger cylinder will be more smooth than a smaller one with a restrictor valve unless it is when it hits a point that it needs power.

You mention that your restrictors made the ram stall, you can try increasing the pressure to give you more force. The issue you may have is that the inertia without a restrictor is giving enough power to cut the sprue off reliably. The cylinder i'm using has a larger diameter and i run about 40PSI and gives more than enough force to do the job.

[wymanwinn]

Thanks Wyman, i'll harass them and see what the go is.

several notables on other sites say that Amsoil Saber synthetic 2-stroke oil is the same thing.....i might give it a looksee as well....

wyman

[jmorris]

The two cylinders you see on mine, one is the main air ram, the other is a gas strut, this was to get the mold carrier to return reliably to under the pour spout with a single acting cylinder. I don't think it is needed any more.

I would imagine it is acting as a shock absorber. As we have already discussed, pneumatics can be "springy" but much less so when connected to a hydraulic damper.

[HATCH]

I would leave it in place as its not hurting anything.
Any synthetic two stroke oil will work.

[jmorris]

I agree, I would like to know if it acts differently without it though.

[HATCH]

Yes that would be interesting to find out.
I think it helps smooth it out by providing some resistance .

[Tazza]

Hopefully i will get a chance to give it a test without the cylinder over the weekend and i can let you know if it is different or not.

I never thought about the fact it could be making it smoother, but it makes sense.

[jmorris]

Didn't think about it for a "smoother" but I have a bandsaw that I used a two way air cylinder full of liquid with both ends going into a ice maker water shutoff valve. Real easy to adjust feed rate, close the valve and you get zero movement, open it all the way and you get gravity feed.

Basically a controlled transfer of fluid from one end to the other.

[Tazza]

Essentially like the bandsaw i have at home. The only difference is on one side it has a valve so you can set the feed rate with the needle valve and leave it set for the feed but you can lift it up quickly due to the internal one way valve.

[jmorris]

Exactly, still a "damper" on "fast" action (only one way on your saw).

Post a video with out it all things being the same.

[Tazza]

I'll do my best to do a video with and without the gas strut on the weekend, hopefully i will get time.

[Tazza]

Ok, i got time to run it and take a video.

http://vid903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/tazza_/master%20caster/20141122_151916.mp4

The first part is without the gas strut, the second part you can see me attaching it and keep running it.

I really don't see it doing anything different with it on there. After i fiddled with the adjustments it seems to spring more than it did before. I think the restrictors on their own will be just fine, it just takes time to adjust then to get it right. I actually found the springyness (that may be a word i just made up) helped to knock the projectiles and some sprues off.

I am running about 50PSI, i tried putting it higher but found it made no difference in the sprue cutting, it was still slow but cut through. It looks like it is struggling, it is just taking time to build up pressure to give enough force to cut the sprue off.

[HATCH]

I wouldn't change a thing.
Take your sprue plate and polish the funnel part.
Use steel wool.
Then use bull plate or equivalent on it.

It takes time for pressure to build up in the cylinder when you use the restrictors.
I think you could almost get away with just lubing the top of the sprue plate.

[HATCH]

Plumbed up all the air lines. Using exhaust valves on the movement cylinder.

Those exhaust air valves are loud.
Found out that my lead pour requires at least 65 psi to operate. The movement operates as low as 30psi.
Before my lead pour was before the pressure regulator. Now it is after.
My air valve are only good for about 100psi as they will bleed is you put more pressure on them

I did run it for about a hr today.
Mostly tweaking. It will run as slow as taz's but it needs tappers that slow.
I can run the return stroke really slow so it gently closes.

The advantages of having the restrictors before the air valve is that it doesn't restrict anything when you are trying to do the opposite.
The down restrictor isn't effecting anything when you are going up and vice versa.

I might put a T in the line so I can put the regulator after the lead pour valve.
This way I can reduce the pressure on the movement cylinder and tappers even more.

[Tazza]

I did polish the sprue plate, i think it needs more attention to smoothen it some more. It was one of the ones i made and still has a few machining marks.

I never thought about the valves being noisy, but it does make sense. There is no muffling of the air as it escapes.

Are you happy with the movement it has now? After the tappers are setup and running, i think it would be a pretty awesome setup. The sprues and projectiles will land in the correct places, less stress on the machine due to impacts.

I'm really quite happy with how mine moves, it needs tweaking to get just right. It needs tappers for reliability but it's working up to that.

[jmorris]

I just connect hoses to the exhaust ports (they are generally threaded too) and run them into a covered trash can.

[Tazza]

I found this worked very well on an air die grinder.

You can get exhaust mufflers for next to nothing on ebay too. I can't see how they can make any money selling things so cheap.

[HATCH]

I got the little air stone looking mufflers. Its still loud.. LOL

[Tazza]

Those are the ones I was thinking about., im surprised its still really loud. Jmorris's idea of a hose may help. But it may also slow things down as the air escapes slower.

[jmorris]

This is the back side of my pneumatic sizer.

The center QD is air in, the top and bottom are exaust. Just stick extra hoses on them.

I used brake line to go from the solenoid to the ram so the hose ID is much larger and doesnt slow it down at all, even with 50' hoses on reels.

[Tazza]

Impressive.

I like the QD fittings, saves you having dedicated air lines hooked up to it, and saves space when it's not being used, better that than having a heap of hose laying around.

Brake line is no problem when it does not need to flex, that is where plastic comes in.

[jmorris]

The brake line was what I had and it is ridged enough that I didn't have to make a mount for the solienoid.

[Tazza]

With such short pieces, i'm not surprised it holds the solenoid tightly in place.

It's always handy having parts there that you can use to throw something together with. Any time you throw something away that you think you may never use it, is the time you find out soon after that you have a job for it.

I was lucky that my dad has a mate with an engineering shop that has just about anything. If i need a cylinder or solenoid, he is the fist place to stop off at.

[HATCH]

I am mounting my air manifold to the control panel with self tapping screws. I will screw the air valves down too. The air valve for the tappers will be at the tappers

[Tazza]

Mine are mounted to the rear of my MC, just below the main air cylinder. Ideally i shouldn't have drilled holes in it, but it is heavy cast iron, i can't see it doing any harm.

The only issue is the plastic lines, one runs a little close to the pour spout and i have had a little lead land on it. Not enough to cause an issue, but i may need to fiddle with the fittings to try and get the bend away from the molten lead.

[jmorris]

The air switch for mine has an ID of .067" and the length of the line (ID of around .076") was 42" to the cylinder and about 8" to the switch itself (can always cut it to make it shorter harder to make it longer again). With pneumatics it is less of a factor than with liquids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih32UPvuuks

The line size compaired to the cylinder volume is much more of a factor.