Do you use 38 loads with 38 cases in the 357

[PAT303]

Like most people I use both 38 and 357 cases in my 586,when using both cases do you use case specific loads eg,38 special loads in 38 cases and 357 loads in 357 cases?.I'm going to work up loads with AP100 powder,all I could get and there is a 2-3 grain difference in loads between the 38 and 357,AP100 has the same burn rate as SR 4756,I'm only asking as I've never given it much thought as my usual loads are just standard low pressure target fodder. Pat

[Tatume]

Minimum 38 special loads may be too light for the larger 357 case. Other than that, I would not be concerned about using 38 special loads in 357 cases. The converse may be more troublesome. Some 38 special cases are stronger than others, and when working up powerful loads in 38 special cases you need to know that the pressure will be safely contained. The safe approach is to use 357 cases for powerful loads, and reserve the 38 special cases for light loads.

[6bg6ga]

Yes, I use 38's with 38 loads in my 686 and in my Western Marshall. I use 357 loads in 357 cases. I do not load 38 loads in 357 cases.

[RED333]

Yes, I use 38's with 38 loads in my 686 and in my Western Marshall. I use 357 loads in 357 cases. I do not load 38 loads in 357 cases.
I have the same answer, 38 in 38 and 357 in 357 brass.

[6bg6ga]

Unless your really experienced the reloading manual is the Bible to follow. With that said never start with a maximum load but rather a few tenths or a grain lower or so depending on the load stated and watch for excessive pressure signs.

[bobthenailer]

Since i have been reloading for about 40 years i have a good supply of handgun brass in all the popular calibers ! I use only 357 mag brass in 357 mag firearms , but load to 38 special velocity levels 775 to 850 fps in 357 mag brass, 4.0 to 4.5 grs of Bullseye or Tightgroup powder worke's well with about any boolet from 148 to 200 gr.
I do sometimes use 38 special brass with 125 gr rn boolets in my two S&W, 627 8 shot revolvers when shooting speed steel matches when fast reloads are a +.

[JSH]

I am with bob. I myself may expect a lot from a cb, no less than what a jacketed will do. I have seen, heard and shot 38 cases in 357 guns. On the target was less than I would put up with. Then some cylinders required a fair bit of cleaning to get back to 357. My time is more valuable than mediocre results and then try to be happy about it.
Jeff

[Thumbcocker]

.357 brass in .357 guns.

[tazman]

I shoot a lot of 38 special in my 357. Both light target and full power 38 special loads. I have never had a problem shooting 357 mags in the pistol after 38 use as I clean the cylinder after each session.
I will not load baby magnum loads in a 38 special case. Some day I may be shooting a basic 38 special handgun and I don't want to get a magnum loaded 38 in the gun by accident.

[Petrol & Powder]

As it has been previously stated, very light 38 Special loads in the slightly larger .357 case may result in loads that are too light. (not enough pressure) The danger is a bullet stuck in the bore. This would be unlikely unless the loads were extremely marginal in the 38 Special cases to start with and the little bit of extra case volume in the .357 mag case reduced the pressure to an unacceptable level. Factors that would exaggerate that condition would include; jacketed bullets, large barrel to cylinder gap and long barrels.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, loading 38 Special cases to pressure beyond acceptable 38 +P pressures but within .357 magnum limits is possible if the gun is strong enough but there is a different danger in that practice.
Once that hot 38 Special cartridge is assembled, there is no way to identify it as an over pressure cartridge. Those over specification 38 Special cartridges may be safe to fire in strong .357 mag guns but if they made it into a weaker 38 Special gun, they could be fired and may pose a danger when used in a weaker gun. Essentially what you are doing by loading over pressure 38 Special cartridges is circumventing the built in safety factor of the longer .357 magnum case. Because the longer .357 mag casing will not chamber in the shorter 38 Special chamber the cartridge length provides a physical barrier to inadvertently chambering a .357 mag round in a 38 Special gun.
So, to answer the question as to whether or not one can load over pressure 38 Special cartridges and safely fire them in .357 magnum guns, the answer is: "It depends but why would you want to"?
Can a 38 Special casing be loaded to .357 mag pressures and be fired in a .357 mag gun ? - Yes but you are playing with fire.
Two dangers immediately come to light:
1. Because of the smaller case volume of the 38 Special case, one will approach maximum accepted pressures below the maximum listed charge weights for .357 mag. loads listed in most loading manuals. Using maximum .357 charge weights in the smaller 38 Special casing will result in pressure beyond acceptable .357 mag levels.
2. By loading 38 Special cartridges to .357 mag. levels you are creating a cartridge that is externally similar to a 38 Special cartridge that may be inadvertently chambered in a 38 Special gun but not necessarily safe to fire in a 38 Special gun.

[Petrol & Powder]

Allow me to clarify: It is SAFE to fire standard pressure or +P pressure, 38 Special cartridges in a .357 magnum revolver.
Now, some folks find it annoying to clean the chambers of their .357 mag. revolvers after firing the shorter 38 Special cartridges in the long .357 mag chambers, but there is nothing dangerous about that practice.

[Andyd]

"Factors that would exaggerate that condition would include; jacketed bullets, large barrel to cylinder gap and long barrels."

What about the crimp, or lack thereof?

[Char-Gar]

I load 38 Special pressure loads in 38 Special brass.

I load 357 Magnum pressure loads in 357 Magnum brass.

I shoot 38 Special loads in 38 Special revolvers.

I shoot both 38 Special loads and 357 Magnum loads in 357 Magnum revolvers.

[357Mag]

Pat -

Howdy !

I only use .357 Mag brass in .357Mag revolvers. As an aside..... I myself don't shoot any .38SPl loads in my .357Mag.


With regards,
357Mag

[NavyVet1959]

I only have one old S&W that is a .38 special and I haven't shot it in probably close to 40 years. The other handguns that I own that will shoot .38 special are actually chambered for .357 mag. With them, I shoot .38 special or .357 brass and either might be loaded to .38 or .357 power levels. If I am using .38 brass for .357 power level though, I load it to .357 OAL, so the pressure will be the same. For the most part though, I tend to keep the .38 brass loaded at cat fart levels so I can easily identify it if I need to quickly dispatch some sort of pest on my property. Loaded light and with a long barrel .357, they are more quiet than a .22LR.

[bedbugbilly]

I have no problem in shooting 38 Spl in any of my 357s. As far as the loads - 38 Spl loads in 38 Spl casings and 357 loads in 357 casings - and I also shoot 38 Colt Short and 38 Colt Long in my 38 Spl revolvers and 357 revolvers - all four cartridges I load with the appropriate load for the appropriate casing using the appropriate loading data.

The only time I load 38 spl loads in 357 casings is for my 357 Handi-Rifle which has a deep throat - as I want the boolit closer to the rifling . . . but, the powder charge is towards the max for 38 spl (according to the loading data) but usually below the minimum on the 357 loading data chart. Not a whole lot different than loading a "cat sneeze" load for any rifle.. . . and of course you always have to keep alert for squibs. Those particular loads are only used for plinking.

[Motor]

If you look at load data I am sure there are some loads that are the same. No they don't make the same pressure or the same velocity but they are still *gr of * behind * bullet.

The model 19 S&W was designed to be a light weight magnum for state troopers. It was not designed to ingest a steady diet of magnum loads. Shooting 38spl ammo from these was and is still the normal practice. There is nothing wrong with shooting 38spl ammo in a .357mag revolver.

Personally I only use .357 brass for my .357 cast loads. I do this so the cylinder does not get built up with fouling. I do shoot 38spl jacketed bullet ammo.

The .357 case is 1/10" longer than the 38spl. When introduced it was made this way for one reason and that was so it could not be loaded into a 38spl revolver. You can load some magnum equivelent loads in 38spl length brass but nobody will publish this data for obvious reasons. Things are confusing enough as it is.

[tazman]

If you look at load data I am sure there are some loads that are the same. No they don't make the same pressure or the same velocity but they are still *gr of * behind * bullet.

The model 19 S&W was designed to be a light weight magnum for state troopers. It was not designed to ingest a steady diet of magnum loads. Shooting 38spl ammo from these was and is still the normal practice. There is nothing wrong with shooting 38spl ammo in a .357mag revolver.

Personally I only use .357 brass for my .357 cast loads. I do this so the cylinder does not get built up with fouling. I do shoot 38spl jacketed bullet ammo.

The .357 case is 1/10" longer than the 38spl. When introduced it was made this way for one reason and that was so it could not be loaded into a 38spl revolver. You can load some magnum equivelent loads in 38spl length brass but nobody will publish this data for obvious reasons. Things are confusing enough as it is.
Yet lots of sources post Ruger only or Contender only 45 colt loads. Go figure.

[9.3X62AL]

This will sound kinda finicky, but here goes--my 357 revolvers use only 357 cases, and I occasionally load to 38 Special levels in a small portion of those cases. I load 38 Special levels in my 38 Special revolvers, no +P in the Special brass. The reasons--I dislike the hard carbon fouling that gets left in Magnum cylinders by firing Special-length brass......and a couple of my 38 Special wheelguns are of an age and size that argues strongly against use of +P ammo.

[NavyVet1959]

The .357 case is 1/10" longer than the 38spl. When introduced it was made this way for one reason and that was so it could not be loaded into a 38spl revolver. You can load some magnum equivelent loads in 38spl length brass but nobody will publish this data for obvious reasons. Things are confusing enough as it is.

The max OAL of the .357 is only 0.04" longer than the .38. The bullet just sits down in the brass more in the .357. As such, I would hazard the guess that you could physically load any .357 load into .38 brass and not exceed the .357 pressures as long as you were loading go the same OAL.

Ruger also makes a .38 revolver that is the same strength as their .357 model, so if someone lived someplace where a .38 was allowed, but a .357 was not, they could get .357 ballistics out of a .38 if they reloaded.

[PAT303]

Thanks for all the replies,I use 38's and 357's in my 357 simply because when I started I bought 38 target loads,I couldn't get 357's so I've ended up with a bucket of once fired 38 cases.Anyway I'll keep the 38's for my wadcutter loads and 50 and 100m higher power loads in 357 cases.Another question,I shoot field pistol,for 100m do you guys go for light 125grn boolits at HV or heavy 200grn for boolit weight?. Pat

[dragon813gt]

Only use 357 brass. I can load from light target to full power magnum w/ it. No point in using two types of brass which would require adjusting dies all the time, or a second set. Not that anyone else touches my ammo, it's a lot less potential confusion in the future. I know of people that load bullets long in 38 Special cases and charge them to 357 level. They may or may no chamber in a 38 special.

[6bg6ga]

Only use 357 brass. I can load from light target to full power magnum w/ it. No point in using two types of brass which would require adjusting dies all the time, or a second set. Not that anyone else touches my ammo, it's a lot less potential confusion in the future. I know of people that load bullets long in 38 Special cases and charge them to 357 level. They may or may no chamber in a 38 special.

I think the main thing is not to load 38 loads in 357 cases. The larger case with the smaller pressure of the 38 load can and sometimes does result in the bullet not exiting the barrel. Most here will shoot 38 loads in their 357 revolvers.

[dragon813gt]

Maybe I should have been more clear. I load to 38 levels in 357 brass all the time. I use very light charges under wadcutters. Everyone can do as they wish. Some like to make things more complicated then they need to be. The only squibs I've had were intentional. I was below minimum and was finding out just how low I could go. The case volume difference isn't that great to really be an issue. It's the powder selection that makes the difference.

[6bg6ga]

I'll have to disagree. The case length of a 38 is roughly .140 shorter than a 357 case. Lyman's 46 th lists for example a 90 gr bullet with 3.5 gr of 231 as a starting load at 689ft per second. The 357 starting load same bullet is 8.1 gr of 231 The 38 load in the 357 case would result in decreased pressure and even lower velocitys. Not a real good idea to mention to some of the people here just starting to learn reloading. I will say that for people that are experienced and have for instance a chronograph the posibility of loading smaller than minimum starting loads in a 357 is a possibility. This is not however recommended for the starter loader. This is the prime reason we purchase reloading manuals.

[NavyVet1959]

I'll have to disagree. The case length of a 38 is roughly .140 shorter than a 357 case. Lyman's 46 th lists for example a 90 gr bullet with 3.5 gr of 231 as a starting load at 689ft per second. The 357 starting load same bullet is 8.1 gr of 231 The 38 load in the 357 case would result in decreased pressure and even lower velocitys. Not a real good idea to mention to some of the people here just starting to learn reloading. I will say that for people that are experienced and have for instance a chronograph the posibility of loading smaller than minimum starting loads in a 357 is a possibility. This is not however recommended for the starter loader. This is the prime reason we purchase reloading manuals.

Pressure is not determined by the case length, but rather by the case capacity between the base of the bullet and inside edge of the base of the brass. If you load them to the same OAL, they will have basically the same pressure. I have loaded .38 / .357 loads well below the published minimums (e.g. 400-500 fps MV).

[Davidk]

Yes, I use 38's with 38 loads in my 686 and in my Western Marshall. I use 357 loads in 357 cases. I do not load 38 loads in 357 cases.

this. They make two different size cases for a reason

[dragon813gt]

Pressure is not determined by the case length, but rather by the case capacity between the base of the bullet and inside edge of the base of the brass. If you load them to the same OAL, they will have basically the same pressure. I have loaded .38 / .357 loads well below the published minimums (e.g. 400-500 fps MV).

Bingo, I never said I was using 38 loads in 357 cases. I said I was loading to 38 levels. It's not my responsibility to protect the stupid from themselves. Most will argue that's what's gotten us into the current mess.

It's also amusing that you will get drastically different answers depending on which forum you ask this question on. You can safely load 38 level loads in 357 cases. If you load outside the published books that's on you.

[6bg6ga]

Bingo, I never said I was using 38 loads in 357 cases. I said I was loading to 38 levels. It's not my responsibility to protect the stupid from themselves. Most will argue that's what's gotten us into the current mess.

It's also amusing that you will get drastically different answers depending on which forum you ask this question on. You can safely load 38 level loads in 357 cases. If you load outside the published books that's on you.



I'll wait for the chronograph results to be posted before I will believe it.

[Jackpine]

Even if the same powder charge with the same bullet is a published load for both the 38 and the 357, you will almost certainly get higher and more consistent velocities out of the 38 case, just like you will get higher velocities out of a 308 vs a 30-06, with the same bullet and charge.

I did some chrono work with light 38 loadings where I seated the bullet out longer than the crimp groove and seated in much deeper than the crimp groove. The difference in velocity was considerably higher with the deep seated bullets and the es was much smaller.

Jackpine

[9.3X62AL]

I think the main thing is not to load 38 loads in 357 cases. The larger case with the smaller pressure of the 38 load can and sometimes does result in the bullet not exiting the barrel. Most here will shoot 38 loads in their 357 revolvers.

This is a generally safe caveat, and comes from a good place--an abundance of caution, which is never a bad idea when one is assembling items generating 12K-20K PSI that discharge a few feet from your face. It is good to have no surprises of either under-powered or over-pressure characteristics under such circumstances. A stuck bullet in the bore or a pressure excursion will spoil your range trip, at minimum.

In both the 38 Special/357 Magnum and the 44 Special/44 Magnum calibers, I have had success assembling Special-duplicating loads in Magnum cases by using 38 or 44 Special powder weights +10% in the Magnum cases to get Special velocity. E.G., Skeeter's Load in the 44 Special......this has been assembled using Lyman #429421 atop 7.5 grains of Alliant Unique in 44 Special cases, giving between 900-975 FPS depending on barrel length. 7.5 x 110% = 8.25 grains (round up to 8.3 grains), assemble in 44 Magnum cases with LP primers. My Redhawk x 5.5" gives about 950 FPS with this load. It is an all-day, no-stress load that even new shooters enjoy.

[dragon813gt]

I'll wait for the chronograph results to be posted before I will believe it.

I could post whatever numbers I wanted to. It doesn't matter because I could easily make them up. You are making a mountain out of mole hill. And possibly confusing new reloaders along the way. After all, we have to make sure they're safe :rolleyes:

To make it very clear, you can load to 38 velocity in a 357 case w/ no issues. When it comes to efficiency this is going to depend on load density. You are typically upping the charge w/ 357 cases so the density is usually along the same lines.

Like I said, ask this question on other forums. You don't get people trying to scare you by saying that if you don't use 38 cases it makes it an unsafe load. You usually get people saying that they only use 357 cases so they don't have to clean a carbon ring out of the chambers.

[9.3X62AL]

Some folks posting here seem to live to argue. That sort of tone is a strong disincentive to sharing any sort of information.

[Motor]

Yes, I use 38's with 38 loads in my 686 and in my Western Marshall. I use 357 loads in 357 cases. I do not load 38 loads in 357 cases.

Not to pick on anyone. I'm not. But the quote highlighted in red is just simply wrong.

There is no such thing as "38spl loads" or ".357mag loads". They are just simply loads. You load them how ever fast or slow the published data says is safe. The reloading manuals are full of loads for .357mag that are equal to in every way to loads published for 38spl. :killingpc

This is the reason we do this thing called hand loading.

[Motor]

Did a little research to back up my point and got a real suprise.

This is from the Hornady 8th Edition reloading manual.

38spl. 158gr lead round nose.
Powder: Unique
Start charge: 3.3gr
Velocity: 650 f/s
Would you load this same charge and bullet in a .357mag case? This IS a 38spl start load.

Turn to .357magnum in the same manual.

.357mag 158gr lead round nose (exact same bullet)
Powder: Unique
Start charge: 3.3gr (yes its the same)
Velocity: 700 f/s
This continues right up to the 38spl's max velocity of 800 which BTW: is .2gr more than the .357's at 800 f/s.

The .357 is 50 f/s faster with the same powder charge than the 38spl. Kind of a head scratcher eh?

Well it turns out that the 38spl has a 4" barrel and used standard primers.

The .357 on the other hand has a 8" barrel and used magnum primers.

I am sure the magnum primers and extera 4 inches of barrel is why the .357 was faster. This just goes to show how close these two are with light loads.

So if you are using one of these loads are you shooting a 38spl load or a .357mag load?

If you are shooting a 38spl at 700 to 800 f/s are you shooting .357 loads in your 38spl?

I think you get the point !!!

[9.3X62AL]

Good points, Motor. And to further my explanation on the "Add 10% for Special loads in Magnum cases" bit--primer make and type remains constant from caliber to caliber in this regimen.

[6bg6ga]

Maybe I'll borrow a chronograph and do some tests for myself. Sorry, I simply do not buy the idea that for example 3.0 of powder in a 38 case is going to equal 3.0 grains of powder in a 357 case for pressure and velocity with the same length barrel and same primer. Maybe I'm wrong and if so I'll state the fact. I should have mentioned above the powder will be the same kind for example WW231.

Some have mentioned in prior posts that they will seat the bullet deeper in the case of a 357 and obtain the same velocity. Tell me how.
Case of a 125gr RN Aproximately .200 of this bullet will need to be seated in either the 38 or the 357 round thus the internal volume would be 1.126 internal minus .196=.983 or .979-.196=.753 in the case of the 38

There are very few bullets that could be seated in further into a 357 case to allow the same pressures as a 38.

119457

[6bg6ga]

Now if you examine the table above it says suggested starting loads. This is what should be followed by the average shooter and beginner in my opinion.

[6bg6ga]

Did a little research to back up my point and got a real suprise.

This is from the Hornady 8th Edition reloading manual.

38spl. 158gr lead round nose.
Powder: Unique
Start charge: 3.3gr
Velocity: 650 f/s
Would you load this same charge and bullet in a .357mag case? This IS a 38spl start load.

Turn to .357magnum in the same manual.

.357mag 158gr lead round nose (exact same bullet)
Powder: Unique
Start charge: 3.3gr (yes its the same)
Velocity: 700 f/s
This continues right up to the 38spl's max velocity of 800 which BTW: is .2gr more than the .357's at 800 f/s.

The .357 is 50 f/s faster with the same powder charge than the 38spl. Kind of a head scratcher eh?

Well it turns out that the 38spl has a 4" barrel and used standard primers.

The .357 on the other hand has a 8" barrel and used magnum primers.

I am sure the magnum primers and extera 4 inches of barrel is why the .357 was faster. This just goes to show how close these two are with light loads.

So if you are using one of these loads are you shooting a 38spl load or a .357mag load?

If you are shooting a 38spl at 700 to 800 f/s are you shooting .357 loads in your 38spl?

I think you get the point !!!

I believe your really lucky in finding info like you posted. I unfortunately am not so lucky. I have Hornadys 3rd edition and they don't even list the same powders for the 38 and 357 in it.

As to your comments on magnum primers and barrel length. I would assume your 100% correct. I was always told but have no proof on this if you used a magnum primer it was like adding a grain of powder. This was told to me by some old hand loaders. The barrel length is correct and verified by chronograph results. Longer barrel = more speed shorter barrel =less speed.

[6bg6ga]

Not to pick on anyone. I'm not. But the quote highlighted in red is just simply wrong.

There is no such thing as "38spl loads" or ".357mag loads". They are just simply loads. You load them how ever fast or slow the published data says is safe. The reloading manuals are full of loads for .357mag that are equal to in every way to loads published for 38spl. :killingpc

This is the reason we do this thing called hand loading.

I believe we have a duty to the younger hand loaders here to suggest that they follow the suggested starting loads for a specific load. No where does it say on any table to start wherever you would like to start. You are free to do as you wish but I will suggest to loaders that you start at the suggested starting points and only with experience and the proper tools deviate from the starting suggested load. The proper tool I am suggesting is a chronograph in which to monitor velocity. I have seen even experienced people shoot and get a bullet stuck in the barrel and touch off another round and either blow up the gun or bulge the barrel.

Now, I would like to think your 100% correct and that a suggested starting load for a 38 can also be used in a 357 but until I see velocity data showing this I will error on the side of safety.

[44man]

My experience with revolvers has shown shorter brass is never as accurate anyway. .38 in .357, .44 SP in the mag or .45 Colt in the .454 plus all others. Even seating long to enter the throats has not solved it. I have no idea but if I had a .357. I would use .357 brass. ACP in a .454 or Colt-- get real.
I found it is best to use the brass the gun was made for.

[salvadore]

I load Skeeter's and Keith's recipes -1/2 gr for Skeeter's and -1.5 for Keith's. I'm not sure if I own any .357 brass. Both loads are accurate out my M28. The 358429 load chronographs 1250fps and the 358156 does1350fps. I have no way to measure pressure.

[rogerstg]

My experience with revolvers has shown shorter brass is never as accurate anyway. .38 in .357, ....
I found it is best to use the brass the gun was made for.

I've found that with the two 357s I own. Both shoot a bit better with any 357 ammo than 38 ammo. I though it was just me though since it seems that most forum responses claim no noticeable difference.

[robertbank]

Other than what my friend Al said I will say I only use .357 cases in my Rossi Rifle because I know I will end up with a carbon rig if I use 38 spl cases in the rifle and the Model 92 is not an easy rifle to deal with a carbon ring. In my revolver I do shoot +p 38spl loads in my .357mag revolver to meet IPSC minor PF of 125 and did for years shooting IDPA until that organization reduced the PF requirement to 105 which is more of a standard 38 spl load requirement.

There is no difference in case strength as has been shown many times in magazine articles. The cases are essentially the same case, one just being a little longer.

I now only have .357 revolvers ie no 38spl so I am not to concerned about hotter loads in the .38spl cases. My kids are gone now so I don't lock all my guns up now either. I did once.

I do think common sense ought to be applied and let Darwin worry about those with none. There are folks who ought not to own firearms cuz they just aren't endowed with a full kit between the ears. I guess that is where Darwin comes in.

Take care

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

I've never comprehensively tested 44 Man's "shorter case in Magnum chamber" accuracy fall-off. I have fired scads of 38 Special and 38 +P in my Magnum revos--this was common practice during the first 10 years of my LEO time in which 38 +P 110 JHPs were coin of the realm. It does stand to reason that any freebore of significantly wider diameter than throat specs has the potential to affect accuracy in some fashion.

One trait I have noticed over years of revolver shooting that relates to 44 Man's point is this--shorter/lighter bullets, jacketed or cast, have never shot as well for me as have longer bullets of "standard" weight or heavier heft. This has held true for me regardless of caliber or barrel length. What I believe is going on.......the longer bullets' bases are still supported within the throat as the bullet is engraving itself into the forcing cone and rifling leade, and does not clear the throat support until the bullet is well-engraved into the barrel. Conversely, the lighter/shorter bullets may not be as well-engraved or well-centered in the bore at the time the short bullet's base comes free of the throat's support, and the potential exists that the unsupported base has greater opportunity to wander radially and spoil straight entry into the bore. I strived mightily with several 38 and 357 revolvers to make 110 JHPs shoot well for varmint hunting, and found that Lyman #358477 shot better by accident at distance than did the 110 JHPs on purpose. I restricted my duty load duplicators to range practice, and loaded the heavier bullets for my hunting work. Deja vu all over again--now my certifying agency has changed their 357 Mag load to the Federal #357B that features a 125 grain JHP bullet at 1440 FPS from test barrels (1425 or so from my 686 x 4"), and these don't shoot as well as either the old W-W 158 JHP duty loads or my duplicator that I put up with Lyman #358156. Again, my range practice and hunting loads differ, as do the sight settings for each load. Things unbroken don't need fixing, but I'm not consulted in these matters--just advised.

When you consider all of the contortions and gymnastics a revolver bullet goes through to get sent downbore, it's kind of a wonder to me that the contraptions shoot at all.

[robertbank]

Al there is a whole new generation of folks who don't think revolvers do or perhaps they just don't think. I get confused.

Take Care

Bob

[NavyVet1959]

this. They make two different size cases for a reason

Yeah, but that reason is just to protect the idiots from themselves with respect to shooting a hotter .357 load in a .38.

[9.3X62AL]

Al there is a whole new generation of folks who don't think revolvers do or perhaps they just don't think. I get confused.

Bob, they can enjoy their delusions without let or hindrance from me. Their dislike of the rollerguns means more available for those who appreciate them.

[EdS]

In the past few months I've shot several cast bullet designs in both .38 Special and .357 Magnum brass using the same powders with the charge weights adjusted accordingly. I've also shot the same load using .38 Special brass in both .38 and .357 revolvers. Yes, I do get lower velocity from the .38 load when it is fired in my .357 (both are S&Ws with 6" barrels), but the .38 load is actually a little more accurate fired in my .357 than in my .38. This holds true with both full WC and semi WC cast designs. It also holds true with the full WCs seated flush and with them crimped in the forward grease groove (no difference in accuracy in the .357). Before you ask, I am an experienced reloader and handgun shooter, and I test over a rest at 25 measured yards. FWIW, at 50 yards, the 358477 beats my full WC by a little, but I do shoot the full WCs at 890-925 fps so they are not in their optimum velocity envelope. I now have 4 full WC moulds and just began testing with the newest one, so results may vary... -Ed

[6bg6ga]

I unfortunately have not experience the same accuracy firing 38's in my 357's. I will point out all guns are not created equal some have different forcing cone sizes even in the same brand/model. Depending on how you choose the bullet depth in the 38 when using it in the 357 will possible put the bullet closer to the forcing cone and thus possible better accuracy. Typically when the bullet has to make that extra .140 before it hits the forcing cone it will decrease accuracy.

[Petrol & Powder]

Yeah, but that reason is just to protect the idiots from themselves with respect to shooting a .357 hot load in a .38.
That pretty much sums it up. I don't think we should interfere with Darwin but for that to work, you have to take the idiots out of the gene pool before they reproduce.

[salvadore]

Leapin lizards, wish I had the wisdom of this forum's safety nazis before I started using Skelton and Keith's loads. I had no idea what a couple of Bozo's they were.

[BruceB]

Yep. Real wild-eyed radicals, Elmer and Skeeter!

Circumstances can dictate actions.

Many years back, .357 brass was extremely difficult to find where I lived, in the Northwest Territories. When it was found, it was very expensive, and my income was..... limited, shall we say.

As a result, I loaded MANY near-.357 loads in .38 Special brass, and even fired them in K-38 revolvers. These were Skeeter-recommended loads, with the 358156 SWCs departing at 1300 or so from a 6" K-38.

The guns, brass and shooter all survived in fine condition. Loads were easily identified by the bullets in hot loads being seated to crimp in the REAR groove, where .38-intensity loads were seated to crimp in the front groove. The ability to use two different seating depths was/is a major feature of the 358156 design.

I never have needed to consider loading .38 recipes in .357 cases....there was always a large supply of .38 brass for that purpose.

[BruceB]

Further to my post above....

This has been an interesting thread with quite a few varying viewpoints. EVERYONE is entitled to air his views.

There is little reason to inflame the proceedings with words such as "idiots" and "safety nazis".

Such terminology can only degrade the discussion and will start generating more heat than light.

[gpidaho]

I have no problem with shooting spls in mags. Like Tazman I clean my guns after each use so the carbon ring just doesn't have a chance to build. As 357, 41 and 44 mag are all the same length, when I just want to plink with my 41mag I use older cases cut down to "41spl" and a small dose of Tight Group or Bullseye with soft alloy, works great, very economical and a good use of multi fired cases.

[Char-Gar]

I cannot remember a time over the past 50 years when this question was not asked from time to time. It seems to be asked more and more these days. Opinion will vary, but you might as well get mine to add to the pile, having shot both 38/357 and 44 Spl/Mag for many years.

There may or may not be a slight degrading of accuracy when 38 Special cases are used in the longer Magnum charge hole. It will depend entirely on the handgun, but if there is a degrade it will hardly be noticed by anybody but the bench rest freak or high level competitor. For the rest of us mere mortals, a difference will never be noticed.

I have never found any accuracy degrade when Special cases are used in 44 Mag charge holes.

I clean my handguns with a good solvent and a bronze brush after ever firing, so the build up of crud in front of the shorter case has never been an issue to me.

Bottom line is I will use the shorter case in the longer charge hole and never give it another thought.

[44man]

It was never a safety issue with my loads and I never worried about a carbon ring, easy to clean.
If I made the same velocity from a magnum case as the shorter case, the longer case just shot better when the gun was chambered thus. There always seemed to be an accuracy edge. I had the same shooting .480 cases from my .475 so I gave away the .480 brass.
I never pushed the envelope so all was safe.
I had a K38 that was superb but shooting the .38 loads from my .357 did show a difference.
I don't profess to know why. So if I had a .454 I would be inclined to use .454 brass even with Colt level loads.
I have a long .357 boolit mold that does not fit many .357 cylinders and it did not help either.
It is not drastic and I have shot thousands and thousands of specials from the .357. I was thinking velocity/twist but both my guns had the same twist.

[375supermag]

Hi...

I only shoot .357mag cases in the .357Mag handguns...all loads are well into .357mag level per the reloading manuals.

All my .357Mag revolvers have never been fired with .38special case and/or loads.

Why?

I have .38Special handguns and they are shot with only .38Special loads in .38special cases.



I do not want a .357Mag level handload in a .38Special case finding its way into my S&W Model 10 or my Cimarron open top Richards/Mason cartridge conversion revolvers. The best way to avoid that for myself and my son is to never load .38Special loads above recommended levels per the reloading manuals.

FWIW...I do not shoot .44Special cases or loads in my .44Magnum revolvers either, for the same reason, I have a couple of .44Special handguns for that.and I don't load .44Special level loads in .44Magnum cases, either.

.41Magnum is less of a problem for me as while I only have two .41Magnum revolvers, I do not have any revolvers chambered in .41Special (though, I would like to get one some day when I can afford to have a custom revolver built).

[Motor]

Of all the different views in this thread I think "magnum only" pressure loads in 38spl brass was the least of them and not really a point of discussion. I know at least one person said they had too in the early days when he could not find .357 brass but beyond that not much.

All I said was it was possible and never suggested doing it.

All the talk about the shorter brass vs the longer brass and the should nots or shoulds is just comical at times. I have had several .22s marked short, long, long rifle. The magnums and their spl counterparts are no different and the manufacture will tell you so.

As I stated before, the S&W model 19, .357 mag was INTENDED to be fired with 38spl ammo and only full power magnum loads on a limited basis. Some of the Rossi models and possibly Taurus models are very close copies of the 19.

As far as accuracy goes, there could be some truth in it at least with some guns. As someone else said, its kind of suprising they shoot as good as they do.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Char-Gar;2973807]

There may or may not be a slight degrading of accuracy when 38 Special cases are used in the longer Magnum charge hole. QUOTE

I will be jiggered.

There IS someone else in the world who understands and uses the term "charge hole"!

The reaction I usually get when using those words is, "Duh.... whuts a charge hole???"

I'm reasonably sure it's a hold-over from blackpowder days, but whatever... it's fallen into disuse now, which is too bad.

As to accuracy with .38s in .357 chambers, using the 358156 allows the .38 case to position the bullet at very nearly the same point in the chambers as does a .357 case. The overall length for the 156 bullet loaded in the .357 is 1.567". In the.38 case, seated to the BOTTOM crimp groove, the overall length with the 156 is 1.540".

These measurements are taken from my bullets, in my brass.

That is a difference of 27 thousandths of an inch, which is really not very much. This is why the 358156 has been so very useful to so many of us for decades.

[Motor]

I believe we have a duty to the younger hand loaders here to suggest that they follow the suggested starting loads for a specific load. No where does it say on any table to start wherever you would like to start. You are free to do as you wish but I will suggest to loaders that you start at the suggested starting points and only with experience and the proper tools deviate from the starting suggested load. The proper tool I am suggesting is a chronograph in which to monitor velocity. I have seen even experienced people shoot and get a bullet stuck in the barrel and touch off another round and either blow up the gun or bulge the barrel.

Now, I would like to think your 100% correct and that a suggested starting load for a 38 can also be used in a 357 but until I see velocity data showing this I will error on the side of safety.I don't understand why you quoted my post for this reply. Did you not read it? Here is a line from that post.

"""They are just simply loads. You load them how ever fast or slow the published data says is safe."""
Starting at a safe level is the first rule of hand loading. Did I suggetst anything otherwise ????

As for the blue: This was not some suggestion made by me. It's in the loading manual and that was one example only. Again assume nothing. Fallow the data published in the manual.

There are many, probably more loads that DO NOT have the same starting powder charge weight then do.

The point being made was there are no "38spl" or ".357mag" loads. There are loads that are too hot for a 38spl but ok for the 357mag. But on the low velocity side there is not anything a 38spl can do that a .357 can't. Although you may have to use a 38spl case to do it but I think that would be an extreme condition.

[Char-Gar]

Bruce, I have not read the instructions that come with new Smith and Wesson revolvers but up until at least the 80s they used the term "charge hole".

[9.3X62AL]

"Charge hole" is a fine descriptor for a revolver's cartridge cavern.

I didn't mean to attract detractors by mentioning a pet cleaning peeve of mine--the carbon crud rings. Gun cleaning runs about a dead heat with case trimming as my least-enjoyed chores in this hobby field, and I address it by matching CHARGE HOLE STEP DEPTH with CASING LENGTH. I said it was "finicky" up front. Don't shoot me, I'm just the piano player.

[Petrol & Powder]

S&W gets persnickety if you refer to the holes in the cylinder as "Chambers". Might have something to do with that old Rollin White patent, I'm not sure. I do know that I was admonished by a gentleman that had attended the S&W armorers' school when I called them chambers. :cry:

[salvadore]

Hey Bruce, both the swabby and P&P referred to me as an idiot....geez, I wish I had a good arguement to. refute them. Anyway if we bowed to the safety nazis Magellan Wouldn't haven't sailed around the world, Lewis and Clark ...etc. I worked for a guvmint contractor who's motto was safety first....your tax dollars at work was a buraucracy that never got anything done. I know how to tell my 38 spec. loads from my hi pressure stuff if you can't don't load 38 brass to higher pressures. I do like the swabby's avatar? I worked with a bunch of nukie swabbies , they were reallly good @ following orders.l

[NavyVet1959]

Hey Bruce, both the swabby and P&P referred to me as an idiot....geez, I wish I had a good arguement to. refute them. Anyway if we bowed to the safety nazis Magellan Wouldn't haven't sailed around the world, Lewis and Clark ...etc. I worked for a guvmint contractor who's motto was safety first....your tax dollars at work was a buraucracy that never got anything done. I know how to tell my 38 spec. loads from my hi pressure stuff if you can't don't load 38 brass to higher pressures. I do like the swabby's avatar? I worked with a bunch of nukie swabbies , they were reallly good @ following orders.l

i think you might have misunderstood my comments. If you have a firearm that is labeled .38, but it is built strong enough to handle .357 loads, I see no problem with you loading it that way. I'm just pointing out that the reason in the different case lengths was to protect the idiots out there who would load a .357 hot round in an old .38 that cannot handle that pressure. It's just a CYA thing for the designer of the cartridge or manufacturers. The max OAL is only 0.04" longer with the .357 than with the .38, so from a loaded standpoint, they can be equivalent. In fact, some people take the .357 mag brass and load it at .357 max lengths for their firearms chambered in .357 max.

[trapper9260]

Allow me to clarify: It is SAFE to fire standard pressure or +P pressure, 38 Special cartridges in a .357 magnum revolver.
Now, some folks find it annoying to clean the chambers of their .357 mag. revolvers after firing the shorter 38 Special cartridges in the long .357 mag chambers, but there is nothing dangerous about that practice.

I am with you on all of that you stated because I do it all the time and make sure i clean the chamber first if i shot a 38spl first and want to shoot a 357 after.I also do it when i shoot my 327 and want to shoot other carts. after like the 32 H&R ,or 32S&W Long or 32S&W , or 32 ACP.I always make sure the chamber is clean before I would shot any lower.

[Petrol & Powder]

Salvadore I don't believe I called you an idiot but if you perceive that, my apologies.
On rare occasions I've intentionally loaded and shot 38 Special cartridges that were close to .357 mag. levels but it's not a practice I would condone for the masses (how's that for an elitist tone :smile:) I wasn't exactly Magellan-like and sailing into the unknown; I maintained tight control over those rounds and fired them in guns that I knew could take the pressure. One of those guns was a GP100 that was chambered in 38 Special.

I think the "carbon ring" thing from firing 38 brass in longer .357 mag chambers (or charge holes if we are holding a S&W [smilie=s:) is a bit of a non-issue but certainly not worth bickering over. I've fired thousands of 38 Specials in .357 mags. and never had a problem, but I clean my guns occasionally.
I think downloading .357 Magnum casing to 38 Special levels is fine as long as you don't get too extreme on the low end and stick a bullet in the bore. The larger case coupled with very low charge weights makes this a greater possibility with .357 brass.

The issue gets a little tricky when one assembles a 38 Special cartridge that develops pressures well beyond 38 Special standards. If you lose control or accountability of those cartridges, there is a chance they could end up in a 38 Special gun.

I'm with Car Gar: 38 Special loads in 38 Special casings
.357 magnum loads in .357 mag casings.
and I shoot 38 Special cartridges in .357 mag guns occasionally.

The vast majority of my revolvers are chambered in 38 Special so the logistics for me are simple.

P.S. - I like hanging out with the wheel gun crowd, a much more civilized bunch. That chamber vs. charge hole thing would have exploded if it had been the magazine vs. clip argument in the pistol camp !!

[salvadore]

As it turns out Im use to being called an idiot gents. I was given thousands RP nickeled +P brass some time back and have used it for all of my hi pres loads in the .357s always cast bullets. Haven't bought a jacketed bullet for like 30 years, but do buy some swaged stuff. The Skeeter and Elmer loads work great in the M-28 and a 3" M-60, I've even shot a few thru a Colt Marshal...way painful.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg.html)

This what my 38s loads look like, note the brass brass. Below is some mixed hi pres/ saami 38s, I call it still scape with ammunition.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/DSCN0226_zpse7b85b6c.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/DSCN0226_zpse7b85b6c.jpg.html)

[robertbank]

Not that it matters but there is nothing special about +P brass as you likely know. Same as regular brass just different head stamp.

Take Care

Bob

[NavyVet1959]

Not that it matters but there is nothing special about +P brass as you likely know. Same as regular brass just different head stamp.

Considering we're talking about fully supported cases here (since they are in a cylinder), I don't think that they would needs to be beefed up that much even going from .38 special to .357 mag. On the other hand, there are a couple of .357 semi-autos, so I wonder if they fully support the cases also.

[robertbank]

Considering we're talking about fully supported cases here (since they are in a cylinder), I don't think that they would needs to be beefed up that much even going from .38 special to .357 mag. On the other hand, there are a couple of .357 semi-autos, so I wonder if they fully support the cases also.

If you cross cut both +P and regular 38spl brass you will find they are exactly the same as regards to thickness at the webbing. Compared to .357 brass the only difference is the .357 brass is longer as you know. I think is was Handloader magazine that did an article on the brass a few years ago. That was my point.

Take Care

Bob

[roverboy]

Usually I use .38 brass but, sometimes I will load .38 levels in Magnum brass.

[Char-Gar]

S&W gets persnickety if you refer to the holes in the cylinder as "Chambers". Might have something to do with that old Rollin White patent, I'm not sure. I do know that I was admonished by a gentleman that had attended the S&W armorers' school when I called them chambers. :cry:

Well Smith and Wesson did hold the patent for many years on revolvers that used bore through cylinder holes and metallic cartridges, so I guess that gives them the right to name the things.

At any rate, they have been charge holes to me ever since I bought my first new Smith and Wesson revolver in 1964 and read the manual that came with it. "Oh, that is what they call those things", I thought to myself. Up until that time, I never heard them called anything. It was just loading the cylinder or putting cartridges in the cylinder, never a mention of what the individual holes were called. I don't recall anybody calling them "chambers" until this internet thing came along.

[NavyVet1959]

Well Smith and Wesson did hold the patent for many years on revolvers that used bore through cylinder holes and metallic cartridges, so I guess that gives them the right to name the things.

At any rate, they have been charge holes to me ever since I bought my first new Smith and Wesson revolver in 1964 and read the manual that came with it. "Oh, that is what they call those things", I thought to myself. Up until that time, I never heard them called anything. It was just loading the cylinder or putting cartridges in the cylinder, never a mention of what the individual holes were called. I don't recall anybody calling them "chambers" until this internet thing came along.

To the best of my recollection, I've always heard them called "chambers".

[9.3X62AL]

Char-Gar et al.......I recall my mentor (the late Leo Reyes) calling revolver charge holes "chambers". He was a dyed-in-the-wool Colt man, so that could be its causation. :-) Chamber--charge hole--cartridge cavern.......interchangeable to me.

[PAT303]

As it turns out Im use to being called an idiot gents. I was given thousands RP nickeled +P brass some time back and have used it for all of my hi pres loads in the .357s always cast bullets. Haven't bought a jacketed bullet for like 30 years, but do buy some swaged stuff. The Skeeter and Elmer loads work great in the M-28 and a 3" M-60, I've even shot a few thru a Colt Marshal...way painful.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/60fb451c-8c37-4930-b589-ce31f6e44b2a_zps37e59d76.jpg.html)

This what my 38s loads look like, note the brass brass. Below is some mixed hi pres/ saami 38s, I call it still scape with ammunition.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/DSCN0226_zpse7b85b6c.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/DSCN0226_zpse7b85b6c.jpg.html)
Mate,I'm in the same boat,lots of nickel 38's,ignore the knockers,I'm listening to what you are saying,thankyou. Pat

[salvadore]

Thanks Pat. I started reading Skeeter's articles I'm guessing in 1968 when Idrove to Idaho to visit my brother. I don't think I missed but a few months of buying a Shooting Times during the 22 months I vacationed in Vietnam. I've owned 3 5" M-27s. I guess I am a big fan.

[robertbank]

Up here in the North West nickle coated cases are welcome additions to the stash. They resist corrosion so much better than non coated brass. The downside is they do tend to split sooner with reloading than the non coated brass.

Take Care

Bob

[rogerstg]

S&W gets persnickety if you refer to the holes in the cylinder as "Chambers". Might have something to do with that old Rollin White patent, I'm not sure. I do know that I was admonished by a gentleman that had attended the S&W armorers' school when I called them chambers. :cry:

Except that the Rollin White patent refers to them as "chambers" though you're probably right in that it could have something to do with a term of art used in other patents.

To me, charge hole seemed like a throwback term to blackpowder days. Not that this stuff matters really, it's just interesting to contemplate.

[Golfswithwolves]

As long as you can make yourself understood to your audience, I don't think it matters what you call those places the cartridges are placed into your firelock.

[robertbank]

Well if we are going to worry about these things we should really address:

Centre
Tyres
Neighbourhood
Neighbour
Colour

lastly we ought not to forget the letter Z.

While charge holes may have some usage historically I can't remember a time when anyone in the last 60 years would refer to chambers as charge holes. A term I have heard and used for the charging hole for a canon. Maybe somebody at S&W decided to play with his bosses mind back in the day.

I guess if we are to communicate with the young and the restless referencing chambers might be in order.

Take Care

Bob

[Petrol & Powder]

1. I have NO idea why S&W decided to call revolver chambers "charge holes". I was totally guessing about the Rollin White thing.
2. I REALLY don't care what those things are called but I was told by a gentleman that went to S&W camp in Springfield that S&W labeled them charge holes, so to prevent him from yelling at me, I started calling them Charge Holes.
3. I'm not the least bit worried about the issue.

[robertbank]

Odd this topic. I just loaded some .357 using the 200 gr Lyman boolit. I was loading nickle plated brass and darn if a 38spl case got in the mix. The cartridge is the same length as the others but most of the top lube groove is exposed. I checked the actual depth of powder space, based upon the swelling in the case and it is the same for both the .357 amd 38spl cases so I have marked it and will use it in my GP-100. I should really pull it but I don't have any 38spl chambered guns and the length with not allow it to fit into a 38spl gun anyway. It will go down range in the morning IF we get a break in the monsoon we have been enjoying this month. I guess it beats snow but seeing the sun would be nice too.

5.5 gr of 231 using SPP.


Take Care

Bob

[NavyVet1959]

Odd this topic. I just loaded some .357 using the 200 gr Lyman boolit. I was loading nickle plated brass and darn if a 38spl case got in the mix. The cartridge is the same length as the others but most of the top lube groove is exposed. I checked the actual depth of powder space, based upon the swelling in the case and it is the same for both the .357 amd 38spl cases so I have marked it and will use it in my GP-100. I should really pull it but I don't have any 38spl chambered guns and the length with not allow it to fit into a 38spl gun anyway.

You might be surprised and it will fit. There really is not much of a difference between the max OAL of a .38 and a .357 -- 0.04", IIRC.

[robertbank]

[QUOTE=NavyVet1959;2977111]You might be surprised and it will fit. There really is not much of a difference between the max OAL of a .38 and a .357 -- 0.04", IIRC.[/QUOTE

The cartridges are exactly the same length. The 38spl case is just shorter.

Take Care

Bob

[RogerDat]

Not that it matters but there is nothing special about +P brass as you likely know. Same as regular brass just different head stamp.

Take Care

Bob

The head stamp is the key for me. I want to know without any doubt that the load is appropriate to the head stamp. Wife mostly shoots a 38 while I mostly shoot a 357. I have generally used 38 in the 357 because of lower cost with adequate performance for paper punching. Always do at least a few groups with full power 357 just so I'm comfortable with the increased power.

My wife will also sometimes go through a few rounds in the 357 just to maintain familiarity with that pistol. She does not want full power loads in those firearms, finds them unpleasant to shoot. Can but does not want to in the normal course of target shooting. So for me it is simple - if the head stamp says 38 special it's loaded as 38 special at target velocities, if it says 357 it is expected to be loaded as a 357. While the load data may overlap that is irrelevant to my needs, I need to know that the 38 is not going to "rock" anyone's world, not once, not ever. That brass with a 357 head stamp will reflect shooting full power loads.

Understand why some people would not want the shorter brass in their 357 or are pushing for accuracy where small differences matter. Or might be doing some experimentation to improve the load or use different ingredients. Just does not apply in our situation.

[PAT303]

I'm happy I started a thread that's lasted 5 pages. Pat

[Petrol & Powder]

Oh if we toss in some catch phrases like: Doe Run, fluoridation of drinking water, one world order, S&W vs. Ruger, Black helicopters, Clip vs. Magazine, militarization of the police, Glock vs. 1911, and vast hidden conspiracy......we can drag this thread into 10 pages; EASY. Maybe even 15 pages if we try real hard. :p !! ........

[robertbank]

And away we gooooooooo[smilie=p:

Take Care

Bob

[NavyVet1959]

The cartridges are exactly the same length. The 38spl case is just shorter.


No, what I'm saying is that the .38 brass loaded to .357 might very well fit in a .38 chamber since the max OAL of the two rounds are so close. Sure, most .38 loads are noticeably shorter than a .357 load, but the SAAMI specs on the two rounds are only 0.04" different in max OAL.

[robertbank]

No, what I'm saying is that the .38 brass loaded to .357 might very well fit in a .38 chamber since the max OAL of the two rounds are so close. Sure, most .38 loads are noticeably shorter than a .357 load, but the SAAMI specs on the two rounds are only 0.04" different in max OAL.

Are you saying you think the 357 case will fit in a 38spl chamber. The .357mag case is a tenth of an inch longer so I don't believe you are correct. Too, as I mentioned I don't have any 38spl revolvers now so it really is no concern of mine. It is only one round and later today it will be gone.

Bob

[Char-Gar]

No, what I'm saying is that the .38 brass loaded to .357 might very well fit in a .38 chamber since the max OAL of the two rounds are so close. Sure, most .38 loads are noticeably shorter than a .357 load, but the SAAMI specs on the two rounds are only 0.04" different in max OAL.

If you are saying a 38 Special case loaded to 357 Magnum pressures will fit in a 38 Special revolver, that is true but very dangerous.

If you are saying a 357 Magnum round will fit in a 38 Special revolver and be fired that is not true. There has never been a 38 Special revolver made that will accept 357 Magnum rounds and have the cylinder close.

[NavyVet1959]

Are you saying you think the 357 case will fit in a 38spl chamber. The .357mag case is a tenth of an inch longer so I don't believe you are correct. Too, as I mentioned I don't have any 38spl revolvers now so it really is no concern of mine. It is only one round and later today it will be gone.


No, what I'm saying is that the .38 case that you loaded to .357 length might very well fit in a .38 chamber due to the fact that the max OAL for the two rounds is only 0.04" different. I'm not saying that it would necessarily be safe for you to fire such a round. It would depend upon how hot of a loading you had created. *If* your .357 loading was within .38 pressure limits, it would be safe though.

[robertbank]

No, what I'm saying is that the .38 case that you loaded to .357 length might very well fit in a .38 chamber due to the fact that the max OAL for the two rounds is only 0.04" different. I'm not saying that it would necessarily be safe for you to fire such a round. It would depend upon how hot of a loading you had created. *If* your .357 loading was within .38 pressure limits, it would be safe though.

You must have missed the part where I said both cartridges were the same length. The cartridge loaded in the 38spl case is simply to long to fit in a 38spl cylinder and still close. The cartridge extends virtually to the end of the 357mag cylinder. I do agree though if it were loaded shorter the 38spl case loaded with the .357mag load could in fact be loaded in the 38spl revolver as you point out. The round will be gone in about two hours. I don;t normally load 357mag loads in 38spl cases and would not recomend it for obvious reasons. I have lots of both cases.

Take care

Bob

[NavyVet1959]

You must have missed the part where I said both cartridges were the same length. The cartridge loaded in the 38spl case is simply to long to fit in a 38spl cylinder and still close. The cartridge extends virtually to the end of the 357mag cylinder. I do agree though if it were loaded shorter the 38spl case loaded with the .357mag load could in fact be loaded in the 38spl revolver as you point out.


What is the OAL of the loaded cartridge? Are you loading it longer than the SAAMI listed max OAL for .357? The max OAL for the .357 is 1.59". The max OAL for the .38 special is 1.55". That's only 0.04" difference. Depending upon the bullet profile and the chamber of the .38 revolver in question, there's a chance that it could still fit.

[robertbank]

What is the OAL of the loaded cartridge? Are you loading it longer than the SAAMI listed max OAL for .357? The max OAL for the .357 is 1.59". The max OAL for the .38 special is 1.55". That's only 0.04" difference. Depending upon the bullet profile and the chamber of the .38 revolver in question, there's a chance that it could still fit.

Yup but I don't have any 38spl revolvers anymore.

Take Care

Bob

[NavyVet1959]

Yup but I don't have any 38spl revolvers anymore.


I understand... It's just an academic discussion. I just took a UMC factory .357 round and positioned it next to an old S&W .38 that I own (but don't shoot anymore). The loaded round is noticeably shorter than the cylinder. I have some powderpuff .357 rounds that I have reloaded into .38 and .357 brass that are right at the SAAMI max .357 OAL and they would physically be able to rotate in the cylinder without touching the barrel even though they would slightly extend from the front edge of the cylinder.