Which cast boolit weight for cat sneeze 30-30 loads?

[bedbugbilly]

Long story short - I've always liked the 30-30 cartridge as I hunted with a Win. Model 94 many, many years ago. I recently lost out on a Win. 94 in 32 spl. but in the process, have run across several 30-30 that have caught my eye - a Savage bolt action, a Marlin plus I'm still looking.

I'm getting stuff together to reload 30-30 - have dies, 1X fired brass, etc. but am ready to order a bullet mold - decided to go with a Lee due to price and to try.

I don't hunt anymore but want to do some "light" plinking with the 30-30 - up to 100 yards probably. I will only be using cast and want to keep them slow enough so I don't have to use gas checks (although I might try them down the road).

So . . . what weight bullet do I want to go with for just light plinking rounds - usually at 25 and 50 yards but up to 100 yards?

Lee offers a C309-113-F flat nose (which I'd need if I go with a lever gun) that would probably drop around 113 gr. - they also offer a C309-150-F which should drop around 150 gr that is flat nose.

My goal is to load light and I'll probably never load up loads in what I would consider hotter hunting loads - I'll only be plinking.

My Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #3 shows to size them .308. I have an old set of old Lyman All Americans I can full length size the 1X fired brass in and I also have a RCBS neck sizing die on the way - so I can either use my single stage to load or I also have a set of Lyman 310 tongs and 310 30-30 dies.

I currently only use the Lee push through sizers so I thought I'd order a .308 Lee push through sizer die - my expander is .308. Should I get a .309 push through sizer as well if I'm loading cast?

Suggestions of mold selection/bullet and sizer would be greatly appreciated.

As far as powders - I have Bulls Eye, Red Dot and Unique on hand. I've tried to get some 2400 but never seem to hit the store at the right time.

I know I'm kind of going about this in reverse since I don't have the rifle yet - still looking so I can't slug a bore that doesn't exist yet. Thanks for any help from those that load the 30-30 in "cat sneeze" loads.

[Yodogsandman]

My Lee 309-113F weigh 114.6gr from AC COWW + 1/2 lb 50/50 bar solder in a 10 lb pot. I size .310" and they drop from the mold at a thin hair under that. I full length size and use a .30 cal. Lyman "M" expander die. I'm shooting 2.7gr Bullseye and kinda giggle with every shot! The Lee 309-113F is made for a gas check and I do use them but, probably don't need to at about 700-800 FPS. If I didn't use a gas check, I'd just tumble lube with LLA. I get about 1 1/2", 10 shot groups at 50 yards and haven't tried them at 100 yards, yet. I'm still working on the C.O.A.L. for the best accuracy.

Good luck finding that 30-30, it'll be lot's of fun to plink with!

[barrabruce]

lee 150grn plus 3.6 grns bullseye over a bit of Dacron goes about 875 fps
4.2 grns about 950.
i can still hit the 300 metr gong with enough hold over with a scope.
bang..............ting!
then again it's more hold over than a 22 lr and that's doable too.
what ever you choose have fun and drive the nimrods crazy with There tricked out black rifles that can,t shoot.

[Horace]

I`m using for one my loads a 150 rcbs cm plain base with 4.5 grains of red dot running about 1000 fps.2-4 inches rested at 100 yds with a savage 99 takedown in 303 savage and peep sights.A lot of fun trigger time.

Horace

[Mk42gunner]

Most of the recommendations for cat sneeze loads I have seen call for a heavier boolit and miniscule loads of powder. I have not done that.

What I have done is load .32 pistol boolits in front of small charges of Green Dot and 231 for plinking loads. They aren't cat sneeze quiet, but they don't bellow like a full charged round either.

My go to size for .30 caliber rifles is .311" first, then go up or down as necessary. I have never had to go down in size. In fact the only other sizer I own at all suitable for said thirty cal rifles is a .313", it worked fine in my H&R 158.

Robert

Forgot to say that all my low velocity plinking loads so far have been plain based, (must be something about doubling the cost of a shot with a gas check). I haven't tried boolits meant for gas checks without the check.

R

[CGT80]

Mine might be closer to a dog fart than a cat sneeze. 180 grain plain base over red dot or herco. Right now I use herco and get 1300 fps with 9.6 grains. It easily knocks down 30+ pound steel pigs at 80 yards. I shoot chickens at 110 with it, for competition. It is cheap to load, and the recoil is light but not as soft as a 22lr. It feels more like a 223 in a light gun. It has a decent report as well, but is definitely quieter than a full power load. I have not tried lighter loads, as I have to knock over the steel. This thread makes me want to try my 125 grain checked 30 m1 carbine boolits in the 30-30 for some soft and quiet loads. The plain base boolits are cheaper and faster to make, but I have some of the lighter boolits ready to be loaded. For 30-30, 30-06, and 30 m1 carbine, I use 0.311" sizing dies. The 180's in the 30-30 will reach out to 160 yards to ring steel with no problem, even though they are light loads. I use a 14" steel plate at 160, so it isn't precision shooting, just practicing offhand with iron sights and my win 94 30-30 (was my grandfather's first deer hunting rifle).

[Lonegun1894]

I would say to measure the inside of the casemouth of a case fired in this rifle and see how big a bullet you can fit in it and then get a sizer and size to the largest size possible. For what it's worth, my .30-30s don't shoot well at all with a .309", but do great with a .311". On the other hand, my .308 Win won't chamber a .311", but shoots a .309" great. Go figure...

[Maximumbob54]

I don't think bullet weight matters as much as what powder you use. I like to use Trail Boss for my light pllinking loads and I've used 170gr for those just fine. They sound about like a .38 special and recoil is nearly zero. I had bought some plated .308" bullets and couldn't figure what to do with them until I went to Trail Boss.

[Doc Highwall]

While not quite a cat sneeze load I use a 311041PB group buy mould in my 30-30 with 7.2 grains of Unique, I believe NOE makes a version of this.

[quilbilly]

Not quite a cat sneeze load but I have been shooting the 130 gr. Lyman plain base boolit with 8 gr of Trail Boss in my Mossberg lever for an MV of about 1200 FPS and can keep that 8x12 gong swinging at 150 yards offhand. Feels like a 22LR. Before commenting that the boolit isn't a flat nose, the cowboy RCBS seating/crimping die I am using puts a nice 1/8" flat spot right on the tip of the round nose. There has not been a hint of leading with the Lee Alox mule snot lube.

[bangerjim]

I make some 94gn NLG boolits (and then powder coat them) with an antique 32cal mold I have. Nice light shootin'. Feels about like a 22LR but slower velocity.

Also any of the lighter 30's as mentioned above. Since you do not have to worry about cycling, you can start very looooooow on the load. Just make sure you have enough "oomph" in there to get the slug out the end of the barrel!

I use them all up thru 150gn at many reduced loads using pistol powders.

banger

[Outpost75]

For lowest noise in .30-30 I use Accurate 31-114D sized .311 with 3 grains of Bullseye. Very accurate and quiet. Velocity about 850 fps.

119601

[LAGS]

I have a friend that wants me to cast him up some Lee .312 100 Gr boolits that I use for my .32 S&W and Plinking liads in my MN's and LE's.
He wants them sized to .309, and is going to try some that I will Powdercoat for him.
They do shoot pretty good at 100 yds in my Mosin Nagants.
But i mostly use them at 25 to 50 Yards.

[GabbyM]

I have a plain based Saeco 140 grain FN mold. In my Daughters Marlin 30-30 a load of 8 grains of Unique would sometimes squib. leaving unburned powder and stuck boolit. Supposedly that shouldn't happen but it did in that Marlin. Have a big can of 700X that is faster and works better than the slower shotgun powders for PB boolits in a 30 caliber. I like sub sonic loads with the plain based boolits since they can't go much beyond that anyways.

[Tackleberry41]

I run the lee 200gr in mine, going to say its bullet and rifle dependent. Most lever guns have a twist to run the 150-170gr best. You slow the bullet down and makes stabilizing them worse. So al you can do is try and see what works. I have a bolt action with a faster twist so does fine with a 200gr at subsonic velocity, may or may not work in your particular rifle.

[Ronnie Dale]

I use the lee 314 TL SWC 90 grainer coated and sized to .309" over a case of trail boss and a LP primer

[pworley1]

The Lyman 311441 115g over 9g of unique should work well for what you want. It should work with any rifle you chose.

[FredBuddy]

There's a thread over at marlinowners.com that is loaded with info about lite loads for 30-30 nad it includes a useful table.

Since I have an old lyman 3118 mold for 32-20, I tried that thru a lee 311 push thru sizer that comes out at 310 with 6 grs unique w Dacron - works great. Like Banger Jim, I've started powdercoating them, but 7.5 grs unique seems better - still have plenty of testing to do.

The lee 150, powdercoated and gas checked with 18 grs IMR4198 is outstanding in my 788 bolt gun!

[JWFilips]

One of my favorite super light and very accurate loads ( to 75 yds) in my Marlin 336 30-30 is the .32 acp 75 grain ranch dog flat nose boolit lubed in LLA & sized .311 over 3.0 grain Bullseye. With Aperture sights I can usually get 1.25" 10 shot groups@50yds on a good day ( With my bad eyes!) I really was amazed that this light of boolit could shoot so well in a 30-30. Never Chrono'ed it but feels like a . 22lr standard I have also used the Lee 90 SWC with the same load but never got it to group as well as the 75 gr .32 acp boolit ( could just be me) If you are interested: Carolina Cast Bullets sells the 75 gr Ranch Dog .32 acp bullets

[GabbyM]

What amazed me. First time we shot some of those low velocity 30-30's. Is how easy the big 30 caliber boolits are to see leaving the gun then all the way to the target. At modest ranges of course. About like watching an arrow leave your bow.

[koehlerrk]

I always load up a few "squirrel poppers" and keep them handy ... a 0.310 round ball in a case with 2 grains of Clays, then dip it in LLA after loading the round. Super quiet, the ball hitting the target is louder than the report of firing. But I think the questions you're asking were best answered by Mr. Ed Harris.

Cast Bullet Basics For Military Surplus Rifles
By C.E. Harris Rev. 9-6-93

Cast bullet loads usually give a more useful zero at practical
field ranges with military battle sights than do full power
loads. Nothing is more frustrating than a military rifle that
shoots a foot high at a hundred yards with surplus ammo when the
sight is as low as it will go!

Do NOT use inert fillers (Dacron or kapok) to take up the excess
empty space in the case. This was once common practice, but it
raises chamber pressure and under certain conditions contributes
to chamber ringing. If a particular load will not work well
without a filler, the powder is not suitable for those conditions
of loading.

Four load classifications from Mattern (1932) cover all uses for
the cast bullet military rifle. I worked up equivalent charges
to obtain the desired velocity ranges with modern powders, which
provide a sound basis for loading cast bullets in any post-1898
military rifle from 7 mm to 8 mm:

1. 125-gr., plainbased "small game/gallery"
900-1000 f.p.s., 5 grains of Bullseye or equivalent.

2. 150-gr. plainbased "100-yd. target/small game",
1050-1250 f.p.s., 7 grs. of Bullseye or equivalent.

3. 150-180-gr. gaschecked "200-yard target"
1500-1600 f.p.s., 16 grs. of #2400 or equivalent.

4. 180-200-gr. gaschecked "deer/600-yard target"
1750-1850 f.p.s., 26 grs. of RL-7 or equivalent.

None of these loads are maximum when used in full-sized rifle
cases such as the .30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65 Argentine, 7.7
Jap, 7.62x54R or .30-'06. They can be used as basic load data in
most modern military rifles of 7 mm or larger, with a standard-
weight cast bullet for the caliber, such as 140-170 grains in the
7x57, 150-180 grains in the .30 calibers, and 150-190 grains in
the 8 mm. For bores smaller than 7 mm, consult published data.

The "Small Game or Gallery" Load

The 110-115-gr. bullets intended for the .30 carbine and .32-20
Winc
hester, such as the Lyman #311008, #311359 or #311316 are
not as accurate as heavier ones like the #311291. There isn't a
readily-available .30 cal. cast small game bullet of the proper
125-130-gr. weight. LBT makes a 130-gr. flat-nosed, GC bullet
for the .32 H&R Magnum which is ideal for this purpose. I
recommend it highly, particularly if you own a .32 revolver!

The "100-Yard Target and Small Game" Load

I use Mattern's plainbased "100-yard target load" to use up my
minor visual defect culls for offhand and rapid-fire 100-yard
practice. I substitute my usual gaschecked bullets, but without
the gascheck. I started doing this in 1963 with the Lyman
#311291. Today I use the Lee .312-155-2R, or the similar tumble-
lubed design TL.312-160-2R. Most of my rifle shooting is done
with these two basic designs.

Bullets I intend for plainbased loads are blunted using a
flatnosed top punch in my lubricator, providing a 1/8" flat which
makes them more effective on small game and clearly distinguishes
them from my heavier gaschecked loads. This makes more sense to
me than casting different bullets. Bullet preparation is easy.
I visually inspect each run of bullets and throw those with gross
defects into the scrap box for remelting. Bullets with minor
visual defects are tumble-lubed in Lee Liquid Alox without
sizing, and are used for plain-based plinkers. Bullets which are
visually perfect are sorted into groups of +/- 0.5 grain used for
200 yard matches. Gaschecks pressed onto their bases by hand
prior running into the lubricator-sizer.

For "gaschecked bullets loaded without the gascheck," for cases
like the .303 British, 7.62 NATO, 7.62x54R Russian and .30-'06 I
use 6-7 grains of almost any fast burning pistol powder,
including, but not limited to Bullseye, W-W231, SR-7625, Green
Dot, Red Dot, or 700-X. I have also had fine results with 8 to 9
grains of medium burning rate pistol or shotgun powders, such as
Unique, PB, Herco, or SR-4756 in any case of .303 British siz
e or
larger.

In the 7.62x39 case use no more than 4 grains of the fast-burning
powders mentioned, or 5 grains of the shotgun powders. These
make accurate 50-yd. small game loads which let you operate the
action manually and save your precious cases. These
plinkers are more accurate than you can hold.

Repeated reloading of rimless cases with very mild loads results
in the primer blast shoving the shoulder back, unless flash holes
are enlarged with a No.39 drill to 0.099" diameter. Cases which
are so modified must NEVER be used with full-power loads! ALWAYS
identify cases which are so modified by filing a deep groove
across the rim with a file and label them clearly to prevent
their inadvertent use. For this reason I prefer to do my
plainbased practice shooting in rimmed cases like the .30-30,
.30-40 rag, .303 British and 7.62x54R which maintain positive
headspace on the rim and are not subject to this limitation.

[wmitty]

+1 on the TL 314-90-SWC sized .311" and pushed with 4 gr BE

[sthwestvictoria]

+2 on the Lee TL-314-90-SWC, sized .311 with 7.0grains Trail Boss. Useful to introduce new shooters. Despite being so short it loads fine in Win 1894 and Marlin 336. Emphatic kill on rabbits.
I like this load so much that is it to the left in my avatar.

[Jackpine]

Of the powders you have on hand, I would start with Unique. If you are going to add a powder, I would add my support for Trail Boss, regardless of what bullet you are using. Hodgdon recommends filling the case to what would be the base of the seated bullet without ANY compression. That is MAX load. Reduce that load by 20% and that is your starting load. Work up from there if you want more velocity or want to see if more gives you better accuracy. Very mild recoil and no chance of double charging that is always the issue with fast pistol powders.

Also, I would disregard the bullet diameter recommendation of the manual and slug the barrel of any rifle you get. It is a pretty easy process and will give you a much better starting point. There are instructions on how to slug, so will not go into it hear, but if you don't know or can't find, holler and someone will be glad to point you.

Jackpine

Jackpine

[res45]

+1 on the TL 314-90-SWC sized .311" and pushed with 4 gr BE

I use the same bullet sized to .311" cast from PB with two light coats of Alox / JPW lube as well in my old Sav. 30-30 pump gun but with 3.5 grs. of Bullseye. Shoots pretty good with the irons out to 50 yds. velocity runs at around 1100 fps.
http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s443/reloader762/30-30Plinker90grSWC_zpse149b59e.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/reloader762/media/30-30Plinker90grSWC_zpse149b59e.jpg.html)

Another load I like is the Lee 170 gr. RNFP shot as cast tumble lube with the gas check left off. I like 7.0 grs. of Red Dot with the plinker load.
http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s443/reloader762/scan0001-1-1_zpsb6588c38.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/reloader762/media/scan0001-1-1_zpsb6588c38.jpg.html)

[Hang Fire]

a Savage bolt action, a Marlin plus I'm still looking.

I have a 325C Stevens bolt action in 30-30, it was the forerunner of the Savage 340. It is extremely accurate with cast up to 155 grains and the Williams aperture rear sight. I would like to try longer heavier boolits, but would have to seat too deep for my taste due to the limitations of the short detachable magazine unless I went SS.

[sthwestvictoria]

If you are going to add a powder, I would add my support for Trail Boss, regardless of what bullet you are using. Hodgdon recommends filling the case to what would be the base of the seated bullet without ANY compression. That is MAX load. Reduce that load by 20% and that is your starting load. Work up from there if you want more velocity or want to see if more gives you better accuracy. Very mild recoil and no chance of double charging that is always the issue with fast pistol powders.

Jackpine
I would agree Trailboss is good for this however I would state the Hodgdon rule is to fill case to base of projectile then reduce to 70% of that load (multiply by 0.7) to arrive at a starting load:
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20Boss%20Reduced%20Loads%20R&P.pdf

[truckjohn]

Another good one is the old Ideal 3118 / Lyman 311008 mold.
Runs somewhere in the 130 grains range...

Run it behind a small charge of bullseye (I used a 22 short case for a dipper.. Charges are under 3 grains) ... *pop* like a kid's pop-cork gun... Will put a BIG smile on your face! Fun fun fun!

If you are going to do much of this sort of thing - make up a set of cases with drilled out flash holes or you will constantly have backed out primers....

Thanks

[Quiettime]

Mine might be closer to a dog fart than a cat sneeze.

Bahahaha!

Same for mine, I tried my NOE 247 grain boolits over 9 gr of Trail Boss (have to credit Wellfedirishman for the load) and that worked well. Very quiet, .22 mag recoil, and still a heck of a smack on steel targets. Maybe a little louder than ,22 LR subs.

I also tried Unique with not-so-great results, leading and sharply increasing velocity.

This is not to say unique will not work with lighter boolits, though I haven't tried them

[james23]

I have good luck with Trail boss as well. I mostly use the lee dippers with it cause it meters poor for me. 8.6 grains of TB moved a 162 flat point PB boolit 1155 fps.

[Outpost75]

Go to tbe GMDR web site for Cat Sneeze .30-30 data. About 3 grains of Bullseye or a .22LR case full with up to a 125-grain bullet or up to 6 grains (.32 ACP case full) for bullets from 125-160 grains.

Accurate 31-155D is a good choice and its front end engraves like Eley Tenex in a Winchester 94 with slight effort using soft 1:40 tin/lead alloy and will shoot through both shoulders of a deer broadside at 1000 fps. with 5 grainsof Bullseye.

[MT Gianni]

I like the 3118 or 311008, there is no need for a gc bullet with what you want to do. I also prefer a conventional lube groove. Ly cast bullet manuals 1-4 are full of recipes to do what you want to.

[robroy]

Just ordered the TL 314 90 SWC to use in my microgroove Marlin. Thanks for the info

[xtphreak]

I tried .310 round ball, lubed Lee mule snot, 3.5 gr Bullseye, when .22 was unobtainable and I didn't want to shoot what I couldn't replace

About as loud as a .22LR out of my Win 94
Fair accuracy to 50 yds

[three50seven]

I load a commercially cast 155gr FP over 8.5 grs of Trail Boss for approx. 1100 fps. Excellent accuracy out to 100yds using a Marlin 336 micro-groove fitted with a Williams peep sight.

[John Boy]

100 grain Plinker (Cup Jacket with lead nose)
IMR 4895 39.0 gr. 2,730 FPS
IMR 3031 38.0 gr. 2,866
Reloader 7 33.0 gr. 2,659
2400 31.0 gr. 2,825
Midway sells the bullets

[MT Gianni]

I tried .310 round ball, lubed Lee mule snot, 3.5 gr Bullseye, when .22 was unobtainable and I didn't want to shoot what I couldn't replace

About as loud as a .22LR out of my Win 94
Fair accuracy to 50 yds
I wonder what the OP means by cat sneeze loads. If quiet he needs a heavy for cal bullet like a 200 gr and light powder. If a light plinking load which is what I think he is saying this would work well.