45-70 Cast bullet for busting a bear's shoulder?

[huntersdog]

Looking for a bullet for the Marlin guide gun in the 45-70 that will bust a Bears shoulder. 405-500gr Beartooth bullet with a gas check, Only need about 50 or so bullets that feed good.

[MT Chambers]

Any med. hard flat point will do what you want, I busted both shoulders on a large black bear with a 300gr WFN GC from a Marlin .44 mag. My favorite, is also my most accurate in the .45/70, a 325 with his widest meplat and gc from Tom at Accurate, he's the best.( I hope you are reading this Tom and will maybe give me a discount.)

[Bullshop]

We have a very good selection of designs that will fill your needs.

[runfiverun]

i'd just contact Bullshop.

[5Shot]

I may have something that'll work.

[Wayne Smith]

Where are you? You will want way more that 50 just to sight in and find an accurate load. Unless you are using BP! You can trade with many of us, I have a 420 gr FP PB Lee custom mold that would do a great job and not need a GC. Push this at about 1400fps and you will have a pass through both shoulders! The Bullshop is also a highly reliable provider, I buy boolits from Dan as well.

Post a location. You might find a local source.

[white eagle]

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-420C-D.png,
if you are looking for a mold here;s one I had Tom do up for me

[btroj]

I used a 420 gr plain based Lee GB mould on a couple black bears. One was hit in the shoulder and I can assure you it did major damage, no meat recovery from that limb.

i don't think weight over 420 or so gr gets you much other than lots of recoil. A 420 at 1600 fps is a handful and will take down anything I need to shoot at.

[Bullshop]

Thanks guys! I should mention that a couple of our designs have taken grizzly bear fired from my old faithful B00, my early Marlin 45/70.

[Blackwater]

Only thing I can add is that from the experiments I've done, I'd recommend the alloy they're made from contain about 4-6% tin. Tin seems to make boolits tougher, and less apt to fracture or disintegrate, at least from what I've seen in my modest experiments. Sure makes HP's hold together better when alloyed with WW's.

[Wayne Smith]

Only thing I can add is that from the experiments I've done, I'd recommend the alloy they're made from contain about 4-6% tin. Tin seems to make boolits tougher, and less apt to fracture or disintegrate, at least from what I've seen in my modest experiments. Sure makes HP's hold together better when alloyed with WW's.

Granted, but for bear no HP involved. Penetration, penetration, and penetration. Good large meplat and at least 350gr. IMHO. You might notice, if you know me, that I didn't offer boolits from my Gould HP mold!

[Bullshop]

Granted, but for bear no HP involved. Penetration, penetration, and penetration. Good large meplat and at least 350gr. IMHO. You might notice, if you know me, that I didn't offer boolits from my Gould HP mold!
Most often true about HP's and penetration but I have one HP mold that goes against that grain. This is the Lyman 462560 at 550gn. I have loaded these cast in COWW into 45/70 cases and fired them into wet paper and 100% of the recovered boolits had the nose broken into three equal parts that were separate from the 400gn shank.
I was supplying these for a customer that was using them to hunt Nilgie (spelling) a big tough African antelope and he said he had never seen anything including magnum center fire rifles drop them as fast as his Sharps rifle loaded with these boolits.
That 400gn shank is plenty of weight to drive on through. They must work much like a Nosler partition where the three front petals of visually equal size break away and the shank drives on through. Since the nose breaks into three equal parts that total about 150 gn each part is in the area of 50gn weight and so become three separate projectiles veering off the main boolit course to widen the wound channel. Regardless, they work!!!

[Blackwater]

Wayne, I understand. The principle still holds true though, that the tin tends to hold the bullet together better than straight WW alloy, even in solid point bullets. If I were after bear, or anything else of large size, I don't think I'd miss adding in some tin as a sort of "insurance" that the bullet would be less likely to break in two or fragment if it hit something big and hard, like big bones. Not a biggie, but it's one I'd do were it me and the bears. FWIW.

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

I have some 500gr LFN I'd be willing to trade for some 405gr

[MtGun44]

I'd bet $5 you'll never recover a single 405 non-HP cast that hits a black bear at any angle if
the velocity is 1350 fps or higher.

Bill

[Dale53]

I had a Marlin 1895 (Modern) in 45/70. Keep in mind that bullets much over 400 grs won't work through the action. A 405 gr flat nosed bullet in the proper alloy will DEFINITELY get the job done. Bill is absolutely on point.

My Marlin shot extremely well with the Lee 340 gr FN and would also work quite well. You can drive that pretty fast for a nice flat trajectory (within the specs of a 45/70, of course) that hits hard. I'd take on any bear in the world with a properly loaded cast bullet 45/70 in a good Marlin lever action.

When it comes to bear, I am a firm believer in the credo of "Break Bone", to safely put them down!

FWIW
Dale53

[claude]

..." Keep in mind that bullets much over 400 grs won't work through the action."...

That is a rather blanket statement that doesn't hold true. My experience with 460 gr. wide flat nose bullets is that they cycle fine through my 1895, Beartooth makes bullets of 525gr. that cycle through 1895's as well.

[monge]

the reality is the 45-70 cal has a lot more stopping power than people realize I have shot deer at 100+yards with 350gr boolits at modest 1600fps vol with great results, this is a big cal with a lot of down range stopping power!

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

I had a Marlin 1895 (Modern) in 45/70. Keep in mind that bullets much over 400 grs won't work through the action. A 405 gr flat nosed bullet in the proper alloy will DEFINITELY get the job done. Bill is absolutely on point.

My Marlin shot extremely well with the Lee 340 gr FN and would also work quite well. You can drive that pretty fast for a nice flat trajectory (within the specs of a 45/70, of course) that hits hard. I'd take on any bear in the world with a properly loaded cast bullet 45/70 in a good Marlin lever action.

When it comes to bear, I am a firm believer in the credo of "Break Bone", to safely put them down!

FWIW
Dale53

I've loaded 300jsp,300lfn,405lfn and newest 500lfn and they all cycled through the gun pretty good I thought there was going to be and issue before I started especially with the 500g. LFN but there was none.

[Fieldmaster]

Hello dale53
what did you load the Lee 340gr. FN because that is the same one I have

[Slow Elk 45/70]

The Marlin 45/70 with a a360-405gr.boolit made with proper alloy will shoot thru a big brown bear shoulder/sine/shoulder and keep right on going.
I have proven this on the bear....not phone books or water jugs or both....I love my Marlins and also love hunting the Big Bears.:cbpour:

[TCLouis]

Lots of different kinds/sizes of bears.

Which are you considering?

[W.R.Buchanan]

RCBS has three different moulds that all have the same nose length, so they will function in a Levergun.

They are .45-300 FNGC, .45-405 FNGC and .45-500 FNGC. any will do what you want. I would warn against the 500 gr version as that may just be a little more fun than you are ready for.

If you only want a few boolits I would suggest going to Beartooth Bullets or talk to Bullshop from here at the site. I would suggest at least 100 to get what you need working.

Another way to go is to goto Garrett Cartridges http://www.garrettcartridges.com/ They make High Performance Loaded Ammunition for both .44 magnum and .45-70.

That way you don't have to mess with load development or fool around you just load and go. While you're at their site make sure to look at their Photo Gallery. Their ammunition has been used to take every large game animal on earth. That means with both .44 Magnum and .45-70. They have a 540 gr .45-70 load that I am sure would be suitable for up to 1 ton pickups.

If you only need a few Heavy Duty Cartridges, IMHO I think you would be better off buying factory ammo from Garrett.

Randy

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

My only experience with bears and cast boolits- 44 Mag Ruger Redhawk and a 295grn cast slug. Hit in LR hip running at 100 100yards, stopped under the hide
on the opposite side outside the front shoulder. Thats quarting lengthwise through the rear hip joint, then the front shoulder joint.
ANY 45-70 boolit of the proper alloy and appropriate velocity is gonna get-r-done :)
It was a very stout 44 mag load, but no where near 45-70 stout :)