Wrinkled bullets after an hour trying

[wiliamr]

Title pretty much says it all. Three molds, wheel weight ingots. Preheat molds on hot plat while lead is melting. Start to cast and for 1 1/2 hours no matter how or what I do to melt temp (change from 625 to 900) the bullets keep coming out wrinkled and refuse to cast. Heck I even tossed in about 1/3 of a lb. tin to 20 lb mix... Any ideas?

[osteodoc08]

Take a deep breath.

Let the molds cool. Scrub with toothbrush and dawn and dry. Set pot temp at 700 by thermometer. You do have one, correct?

Place back on hot plate to get molds up to temp. Flip over onto the sprue plate to make sure it's hot. If you used sprue plate lube, it needs to be very sparingly and should be smoking at this point.

If bottom pour, allow alloy to run free into catch basin underneath for the first pour. This gets rid of the cooler alloy sitting in the nipple which can cause wrinkles. I use a small SS shot glass. Fill molds with generous, overflowing sprue. Wait to harden and count to ten, allow the heat to soak in. Repeat a few times until sprue cools over a count of 5-6 seconds. By now you should get into a nice rhythm. I often have to stop every 3-4 casts to let the blocks cool. You can use a damp sponge or fan of it suites you. I typically cast with 2 molds. One cools while the other casts.

Report back.

[HATCH]

Get a can of brake cleaner (non-chlorinated) and spray the mold when its COLD (don't do it hot)

Then cast away. 700 to 750 would be just fine.

[Janoosh]

Wrinkled boolits. Usually cleanliness or temperature. All those that posted above are spot on.

[williamwaco]

All the above + 99% sure your mold is not hot (enough) if the sprue puddle is not still liquid two to three seconds after you close the valve, cast faster.

You can cast perfect bullets with your pot at 900 degrees down to cool enough the spout freezes.

( if your mold is clean!)

[country gent]

Give the molds a good scrubbing to remove oils waxes and crud. Very lightly lube sprue plate pivot and pins. If ladle casting also clean ladle I recently boiled mine in 50/50 white vinegar and water and was surprise to see how much crud was in it. If bottom pour pre heat nozzle with long nose butane lighter or propane torch just before casting starts. Run a fairly quick pace and pour large sprues to start. I over pour to keep base hot as long as possible. I ladle cast and pour a full ladle of lead letting excess runn off the side of the mould. As stated above between 700*- 750* on a thermometer should be about right. Flux your pot heavy with sawdust or wax before starting also. Be sure to scrape sides and bottom to dislodge crud.

[wiliamr]

This is my frustration today....
I scrubbed the molds to start with brake cleaner and my trusty toothbrush, then smoked them. While melt was heating, the molds sat on hot plate upside down then flipped to right side up to come to heat. Used lube on sprue per instructions). Watching the thermometer, when melt was at 625, I started to pour (Big Lyman bottom pour) usually when I do this it takes about 10 to 15 minutes for blocks to come to temp.. The alloy was very silvery very clean poured very liquidy, no clops or grainy inclusions. Dross was grey powder first flux was Franklin casting flux.
I was using 1 brand new Lee aluminum 7mm rifle mold, 1 30 cal lee aluminum mold and my trusty RCBS 45 ACP mold. Filled one, sat off to side, filled next (all with generous puddle on sprue plate) then open 1st mold, filled third mold, dumped 1st, opened 2nd, refilled 1st after 15 minutes, I upped the temp to 700, tried fluxing with saw dust (mixture of walnut and pine)then in another 15 minutes, to 800. bullets at this point were slightly frosty but still silvery and I fluxed with candle wax. All fluxes were stirred deep stirring and when melt hit 900, I called it a morning. I poured the melt into the Lyman ingot molds, they looked frosty because of the 850 temp by the time I got to the last 5 lbs, temp and dropped and the ingots are pretty, shiney silver. I think a coke and bourbon now as I scrub the molds again, and wash with denatured alcohol (ethyl), then re-smoke. I've been casting 30+ years and never had this problem.... Thanks for reading guys I needed to ask for help

[osteodoc08]

Skip the smoke. Try juggling less molds. The molds are still cold and you're trying to overcompensate with too hot a melt. Back it to 700 and let your molds heat up more. If you're getting frosted boolits with a melt temp of 700, allow mold to cool a bit. I've found that my steel and brass molds hold heat and are less finicky about my timing once up to temp. Let an aluminum one sit too long and it'll get too cold.

[wiliamr]

I tried that too, just started casting near the end with the RCBS mold alone.still bullets were wrinkled and very pretty silver.

[williamwaco]

I tried that too, just started casting near the end with the RCBS mold alone.still bullets were wrinkled and very pretty silver.

Absolute proof of too cold.

[Pilgrim]

2nd on 2 moulds and cast faster. However, your problem may not be temp of moulds or melt. But a problem with venting. With the mould cold, take a razor blade or exacto knife and carefully clean the vent lines. I don't trust myself to use a file, but a "razor" edged file is best, but mistakes with a file are not good!! Don't ask how I know this! I usually draw the blade edge across the vent line 1st, and then use the point of the blade as a finisher. Get your brake clean out and get ALL of the smoke out of the mould. Then start over. You can put the corner of your mould in the melt for a bit to make sure it is up to temp if you aren't sure the blocks are hot enuf. If your mould is not venting well, you can cast till hell freezes over and no matter the combination of mould and melt temperature you'll still get wrinkles. Smoke only helps insulate the cavity for a smidgeon longer so the mould can vent. It shouldn't be needed, but...FWIW Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

Be aware that the smoke can be plugging the vent lines. I use smoke (rarely) but apply it with a kitchen match and try like crazy to keep the smoke in the cavities ONLY. Sorry for the yell, but plugging vent lines with smoke ain't good, and smoke outside of the cavity is pretty much useless.

[TomAM]

Cast at a brisk pace with one mold until the sprue takes 10 seconds to dry. THEN examine your latest boolits and see if there are wrinkles.

[Dan Cash]

You are trying to run too many moulds. Also, you don't say what you are using as a smoke source; some flames carry lots of oil with the soot. If your moulds are clean, you don't need smoke.

[wiliamr]

I think the vent lines may be the issue at least on the RCBS, I just came back in from cleaning the heck out of it and the vents seemed clogged. I am going to mess with the Lee molds. The Lee aluminum molds have always been, in my opinion, tempermental. Lezzzzz see what happens. I do thank ALL for their feedback.

[MT Chambers]

First you get good, then you get fast.....start with one mold and cast like hell, you'll get rid of the wrinkles.......when you start getting frosted bullets, it's time to get two molds going.

[geargnasher]

Read THIS: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236488-Something-I-learned-last-weekend-about-temp

Particularly post #10. "Cast like hell" is right, FOUR POURS PER MINUTE, time it with a wall clock. Your moulds are probably too cold like the others are telling you. You really need to focus on understanding the difference and importance of alloy temperature and mould temperature and how to maintain each, and WHY. Cranking up the pot dial past where the alloy needs to be does nothing good for bullet quality.

There is one other thing that may be an issue, I don't know what you did to lube your sprue plate, but any oil or even oil fumes that get in the cavities will wrinkle bullets. If you read any of the Lee instructions, try to forget every single word you read, burn them, and throw rocks at the place where you toss the ashes. Beeswax, bullet lube, and smoke are the last things you want near your moulds next to maybe salt water.

Read the sticky thread in this section about how to lube a mould properly, you shouldn't be doing it cold because you'll use too much, and a half drop will lube two moulds, any little bit too much and you're in trouble with wrinkles.

Study a bit, clean the moulds up with brake cleaner and a toothbrush again really well, and have another go. A sip of good whisky applied to the stomach while waiting for the moulds and alloy to come up to temperature might be helpful as well.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Do not smoke the cavities.

Cast as fast as you can. Fill, as soon as the sprue solidifies, cut and dump, then immediately
refill - do not look at the boolits, fiddle with sprues, etc. Do NOTHING but fill, cut and dump
until you get the mold hot enough.

Bill

[6bg6ga]

Do not smoke the cavities.

Cast as fast as you can. Fill, as soon as the sprue solidifies, cut and dump, then immediately
refill - do not look at the boolits, fiddle with sprues, etc. Do NOTHING but fill, cut and dump
until you get the mold hot enough.

Bill

I will add....sort them out later. You will end up with good bullets.

[koehlerrk]

I was given two Lee 30 cal molds... took a while, but I got them to cast, but I had many of the same frustrations you're facing. Here's what I did:

1. Clean the mold with Dawn dish soap and hot water with an old toothbrush. Then sprayed it with brake cleaner. No smoke or other mold releases!
2. Good, hot, clean melt in the pot, 700-750 is about the ideal temp.
3. Preheated the molds on a hot plate.
4. Started casting with one mold, and when it got hot, I put it back on the hot plate to "cool" while I used the other one. This keeps it from getting too cold.

Keep at it, hope this helps.

[6bg6ga]

Molds will clean with simple brake cleaner. Ideal temp depends on the molds used and the lead alloy. Preheat molds... not really necessary as they will heat up to temp after a few cycles. With my bullet caster I can get good bullets in around 12 cycles and the cold ones are sent back to the pot. Ideal temp is when bullets are neither wrinkled or frosty in my opinion. I don't pay attention to the PID temp control as I just ramp it up or down if needed.

[TXGunNut]

When my moulds refuse to cast, especially a new mould, I set it aside and cast with another mould. After the offending mould cools I'll give it a good soap & water scrubbing and try again on another day. Lately I've been breaking in new aluminum moulds by bringing them up to temp and letting them cool for three cycles. Not sure why this works but it seems to.
OTOH some days you just need to unplug the pot and walk away. When things aren't going well I'd rather not be working with molten metals.

[Moonie]

I've been casting since the early 90's and while some others are able to cast with multiple molds I've always found it too much work and rarely can I get as good results as casting with one mold. Normally I'll cast for a bit with one mold, then switch to another if I need different boolits during the session. But I normally use molds with more than 2 cavities.

[cdngunner]

Just went through this myself....just keep plugging away....have 2 out of three casting properly.

[montana_charlie]

The Lee aluminum molds have always been, in my opinion, tempermental. Lezzzzz see what happens.
That certainly sounds like the voice of experience talking.
How long have you been casting bullets?

CM

[fredj338]

Stop smoking the molds & use just one at a time. I just clean the molds & cast, no smoke or release agent. It sounds like they aren't staying hot. Rotating molds is fine, but they need to be hot enough to rotate out. When I hand cast, using a pair of molds, I cast with one until it starts to throw frosted bullets, then swap to the other & repeat. If the sprue is not taking 4-5 sec to go solid, the mold/alloy isn't hot enough.

[wallenba]

One of the mistakes I kept making before I came here and began learning from pros, was that I kept putting the reject boolits and the sprue cuttings back in the pot. What that did was keep cooling the pot down. Are you doing that? LOL. When I stopped doing it, and got a pot thermometer, things got much better.

[Jevyod]

Thanks for the link to the other discussion gear! I had not read that post until now. It cleared up a lot of stuff for me! I was just cranking the heat up till the bullets stopped wrinkling. The problem was, by then my alloy was running @ 900 and I was getting terribly frosted bullets. So its back out, this time PROPERLY pre-heating my mold, and see what happens! So I guess I will go shopping for a hot plate!

[docone31]

Listen, set the molds in mineral spirits over night. No smoke, no tin, just heat on casting. I use only Lee molds. I stopped getting wrinkles when I heated the mold in the melt. I sprinkle Kitty Litter on the melt, then set the mold on that. By the time the melt is hot enough for pour, the mold is also preheated.
You need the heat from the casting in the mold to keep the heat going. When you set the mold down and cast from another, you are bleeding off heat. You need heat to be wrinkle free. The mold being cold, or cool, will freeze the melt, producing layering.
I have read the 10 second count for casting. I use six seconds. From total pour to melt freeze, you should have six seconds. The sprue will still be soft, the mold will fill out, and you can dump the castings. Four castings a minute is pretty quick, I might try for three complete castings.
Do not hit the mold with metal! Damage occurs. If the mold holds the casting too long, then spin a casting with lapping compound in the cavity. Not too much, just a tad.
Pour, count to six, cut the sprue, dump, pour. I use the handle on an old hammer to push the sprue plate. I also dump in water, but that is another matter.

[wiliamr]

I've been casting since 81 or 82. Never had this happen, BUT I like the thought to put the toys away and try another day. WHich is what I did. I let the molds cool and scrubbed the heck out of them with Dawn, brake cleaner and a splash of Old Grandad.. no the Old Grand Dad was splashed in me.

I open the sprue with heel of hand wearing welding glove. I was casting pretty slow with 3 molds, but at the end I was just using the RCBS and running 4 or so a minute. Have scrubbed the molds down with Dawn, rinsed with brake cleaner, poured Old Grandad in me and will see what happens now.

Guys I really appreciate all the ideas, I was about of ideas which is why I called for help. Bill

[wiliamr]

That certainly sounds like the voice of experience talking.
How long have you been casting bullets?

CM

I have been casting 32 or 33 years. For my blasting bullets use range lead, for BPCR I use Rotometal foundry lead and I also melt roofing lead and alloy it with pewter or pure tin. I cast everything from 223 to 45-70. Been through all kinds of twists but this one has me scratching my head.