Mold Suggestion for 30-30

[newton]

I know its been talked to ad nauseam, but time does make a difference with ones opinion. That's what I am looking for, opinions. Sure, I could get a few of each bullet from different molds, but in the end the difference between one shooting 1/2" one way or the other is not what matters to me. Not looking so much for an accurate bullet, if that makes sense. I do want one, but that's not what I am looking for.

I shoot a M94 Ranger. Been shooting Lee C309-170 out of it. Shoots real good, but I did notice something from the last two deer I shot. Not much of a blood trail. They died very quickly, and if it was not for me hearing where they crash then it would have taken more time searching for them. I believe it is due in part to the pretty small metaplate on the Lee bullet.

The bullet is fantastic. I shoot good groups with it, and will keep it around for the plinking loads. It sure is fun to shoot a squirrel with my 30-30 and that bullet moving at a .22 cal velocity. Lets just say they don't go anywhere. But I want something with a bigger frontal area to let the air out quicker in deer sized game. I also hunt in area's with hogs.

I am torn though. I see the Ranch Dog's updated version that NOE makes, the standard Lyman 311041, and the RCBS 30 180 which is where I am really leaning toward.

I like the idea of having that RCBS for a hunting round and it only has a tad less smaller metaplate than the Ranch Dog. Most people say it casts at 190+ with the GC and all. People also say it groups very good. But I am concerned with the length of it.

Then the Ranch Dog with its massive metaplate but it weighs a tad less.

Then the Lyman. Which really, its nice because of the extensive amount of load data for it and it seems to just be an all around good bullet.

I am stuck though. I can imagine that I will wind up with all three one day. I plan on getting each of my boys their own 30-30 as time comes so there will always be a need for good cast boolits. But I want to start with one right now. Besides, if I bought all three it would be tuff deciding which one to play with first.

So give me the ups and downs. Is there another mold I am over looking? Also, I am going elk hunting next fall. May be rifle hunting, but that's not been determined yet. Even though I know the 30-30 is somewhat looked down upon for anything larger than Deer, I know, and you all know, its fine for an elk at its given range. If I do go during rifle, and I have the itch to take my 30-30 instead of buying a new gun, would one boolit be better than another?

I know its all about shot placement and such. But weight would make a difference would it not? Is there any 30-30 elk hunters out there? Why the 30-30 you ask - well, it was my first rifle given to me by my dad who never hunted a day in his life. In fact none of my family did. But he saw my intense desire to be in the woods and I begged and pleaded with him to get me this gun. So it would mean a lot to go on a hunt that I have been dreaming of as much as I did all those years ago about that gun. And to be able to take along loads I made myself to boot. Yea, all of that would be well worth the effort to get a few hundred yards closer to the elk in order to get a good shot.

Hollow point molds? Are they worth a hoot in a 30-30?

Give me some talk here. I am open to it all. I have been researching it for a while now but want some fresh input. Sometimes internet opinions can become stale.

[snapshot]

Your lyman choice is tops you cant go wrong IMHO but many moons ago when I was just starting out I had the same problem with the tracking thats why I shoot 45/70 with a soft 405 grain lyman bullet 457193 at about 1600 fps this load blows a hole you can put your fist through and can follow that blood trail in the pouring down rain

[Doc Highwall]

The Ranch Dog has a good enough reputation that NOE makes a copy with regular grease grooves, That is where I would start.

[Shuz]

My vote is for the NOE 311165. Great and accurate boolit in my .30-30 Marlins.

[OverMax]

I prefer Iron molds verses aluminum or brass. That preference restricts what is available to me. So (as read) you OP use aluminum and because of that have a large array of molds & weights to pick from. Frankly: I don't see any reason to change from what you already use to some other mold. Why speculate when what you already have is {tried, true and works for you.} Going heavier in weight doesn't mean your new cast bullet will kill quicker or create a larger entrance or exit hole. Pure & simple the 30-30 has always been considered a marginal cartridge to use on big game.
As far as cast HP use in a 30-30 for deer hunting. I see little benefit gained.

[RickinTN]

Since you are having such good luck with the Lee 170 have Tom at Accurate molds make you a copy with the larger meplat you desire. I have found the nose diameter to be very important. I'm not sure what your Lee bullets are casting as far as nose diameter but I've had best luck with noses of .301" to .302" for slight engraving when chambered.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Sneakybuffalo]

Here's a neat article on just what you are asking if you haven't seen it already. http://www.castbullet.com/reload/meplat.htm

Also, if you are thinking of going the hollow point route, I'd just get the Lee C309 HP'd. I don't see the point of wasting ballistic coefficient on a wide meplat when a hollow point is designed to expand already.

[newton]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Truth be told, my Lee mold is wearing out. It was the very first mold I got and has seen the most use....and abuse. So it still works, but its on its last leg. I need a new mold regardless.

I know that I want a bigger metaplate regardless. One thing I did not mention is I also am curious how my gun would react to a bigger boolit also. I run the Lee's at .309". So I am going to get a .311" sizing die and need a mold that will cast at least that big. My Lee does not.

I am not sure how big the nose diameter is on them, I would have to measure them for sure. But I am pretty sure they ride and do not engrave at all. At least I have never seen engraving from ejected live rounds.

[newton]

Here's a neat article on just what you are asking if you haven't seen it already. http://www.castbullet.com/reload/meplat.htm

Also, if you are thinking of going the hollow point route, I'd just get the Lee C309 HP'd. I don't see the point of wasting ballistic coefficient on a wide meplat when a hollow point is designed to expand already.

Yes, I did see that article. That's what has me so torn. I was set on the Ranch Dog mold, but he does have a good point about the RCBS and that's really the article that had me second guessing everything.

[starmac]

I have and like the 311041. I have no experience with the others you are looking at, so sure can't say it is the best, but it works well enough for me.
As far as the 30/30 for elk, it sure wouldn't be my first choice and wouldn't go buy one with elk in mind, but if it is what I had, I would sure use it before staying at home. lol I did carry a 300 savage for elk a couple of years, because that is what I had. I didn't ever get a shot, but have carried a 30/30 on a short unplanned moose hunt, only saw one legal bull too far for a shot, but he was farther than I would have shot with a 300 mag too. So far I have never shot anything farther than what I would be confident with a 30/30, but there is always that chance that I would see a monster just pass my self imposed range. lol

[1Shirt]

Might also take a look at the NOE cy of the old Lyman 311440. Big meplat, durn near a 30 cal wad cutter. Paco Kelly touted it for years as a sledgehammer bullet.
Just got a 4 banger of it from NOE, and it is one of the finest casting 30's that I have ever seen. Out to 100, at 2200-2400 should be a barn burner. Also have 31141HP, and the original Ranch Dog. Think all of them would do you well.
1Shirt!

[Shuz]

1Shirt--What do the boolits cast from your NOE copy of the Lyman 311440 weigh? I have a 4C version from MP-Molds and mine is hollow pointed and weigh 152g cast from ww+1%tin. I've not tried mine as a solid yet, but maybe some day!

[jmort]

I have both a Ranch Dog Lee and the NOE version of the original, both with the TL grooves. What an amazing fantastic design. I agree with the author of the article linked:

"Ranch Dog bullet is the best overall. In fact, I consider it the best cast bullet ever designed for leveraction 30-30 rifles."

[rking22]

I like the NOE Ranch Dog, but it was designed with the Marlin throat in mind. May need to seat below the crimp groove to chamber, only way to know is to try one. I shot 2 deer with it last year, don't know about blood trail as I never looked, they fell in sight. The 31141 is a classic and definately works in the Win 94. I shot one with it year before last , dropped in her tracks, so again no blood train feel.I only run these about 1750fps and shots were under 60 yards with iron sights.Bullets were 50-50 PB and Lyman #2 water dropped (for convenince only). I have never used the RCBS but based on Junior's article, I would think about trying it. Turns that 30-30 into kinda a 303 Savage that had a good reputation for big game "in the day". That's due to your thoughts about elk, more bullet is a good thing, even if it's just a little more :) Opinion only, if you KNOW you will hold off on shooting beyond your limit,and he limit of the 30-30, I see no reason not to enjoy that experience. Getting close is what hunting is about fo me, really makes for memories of the hunt. And using that rifle, I would definately do that, culmination of a long held dream, with our Dad's gift in hand... YES

[newton]

That was one consideration about the Ranch Dog mold. It was really designed and mainly tested in the Marlin's. According to stuff I read, the "new" version NOE makes, with the regular lube grooves, is supposed to work good for Winchester's.

I had a guy PM me about a RCBS mold he has. If that works out then that might be my first go. I am keeping an eye on the Swappin section to see if a Ranch Dog comes through...but I am not keeping my hopes up.

I am not settled yet though. I am not going to be jumping the gun on this anytime soon. I figure by the end of this year, first of next(in time for winter tinkering) I'll have made my mind up. But, if good deals come past me I may find myself with multiple molds to play with. lol

I know its not looked good upon for elk. I get it. But it is what I have. I am really wanting to go during ML season, or Archery. But the guy I am going with likes to rifle hunt so that might be what I end up with. I only have iron sights, peep sight though, so an elk standing off past range is not going to be shot at anyways. I shot a deer a few years back at 125 yards and remember thinking about how small the thing looked in my sights. I am a pretty responsible hunter, and I do not mind(actually I like) getting close to my game. Partially why I like archery. I have seen enough to know that its not impossible to get up close and personal with elk. I get that its better to bring more than you need, but at what point do you stop? Are the guys who go out with traditional archery instead of big fancy compound bows ignorant or dumb for doing so?

For me, there are multiple reasons to take my 30-30. And the RCBS peeks my interest the most because it does fall under the "bring more than you need" category.

[Dan Cash]

Take your existing bullet, size it to .303 and patch it out to .312 and push it to 2000fps. Cast of soft lead (20:1), the wound is amazing and penetration is still there.

[newton]

Take your existing bullet, size it to .303 and patch it out to .312 and push it to 2000fps. Cast of soft lead (20:1), the wound is amazing and penetration is still there.

I have thought of this. In fact, which ever way I go I will try PP just to see what I can get out of her. I don't see why I couldn't get it up close to 2200 fps. But really, I am pushing it at 1950 fps as it stands. 50 fps doesn't sound like its going to make much of a difference in what I am seeing now.

[725]

311041 - hard to beat. RD's are top shelf if they fit your throat. I lean toward the 311041's.

[dualsport]

Lyman 311284. Check out the old Frank Marshall articles re. the B.O.W.M. (Bench or woods Marshall) This path is well trod.

[starmac]

Up close and personal, I don't know of any elk that would laugh at the 30/30. If you can find the thread from Larry Gibson on leverrolution powder. He tested several cast boolits including the rcbs and it makes some good reading, with actual performance tests.

[newton]

Lyman 311284. Check out the old Frank Marshall articles re. the B.O.W.M. (Bench or woods Marshall) This path is well trod.

I remember reading that article. I cannot find it again though, do you have a link? I remember having some doubts about flattening the nose on the bullet. Not to say it cant be done...

[newton]

Up close and personal, I don't know of any elk that would laugh at the 30/30. If you can find the thread from Larry Gibson on leverrolution powder. He tested several cast boolits including the rcbs and it makes some good reading, with actual performance tests.

I'll look that one back up. I remember reading that before. I think you can even find Leveroution powder these days to boot...

[OverMax]

Not even a honorable mention throughout this entire thread of my favorite, >Lyman's 311291.

[Ramjet-SS]

I have purchased several Accurate Moulds and the one that I really like for my Henry and BFR is a 170 grain FP the molds I get from accurate are just that accurate and exactly what you want with drop Mendes to choose and customize based on a miriad of options. I think you can cast little softer alloy and get jacketed performance on Whitetail do some testing in wet news print compare your cast to a proven bullet like the Core-Loct. You will get here even with the Lee bullet if you play around some.

[Husker Leverman]

Carolina Cast Bullets has several of the Ranch Dog moulds, if your interested in seeing how that bullet performs in your rifle you could try them out then before committing to a particular mould.

I only have marlins, but have shot 32-30, .357 and 30-30 Ranch Dog bullets from Carolina Cast Bullets and all have performed exemplary.

[Piedmont]

I remember reading that article. I cannot find it again though, do you have a link? I remember having some doubts about flattening the nose on the bullet. Not to say it cant be done...

I believe Frank Marshall filed a flat on the 311284 and that also lessened the weight to around 190-200 grains. Then Old West made a mold for a shorter very blunt 311284 that weighed about 190 grains with bore ride of around .303". Frank endorsed it. I have that mold and while I like it fine it really isn't going to anything that these bullets discussed in this thread won't do.

If I were going to shoot an elk I would use the RCBS for the extra weight (mine is 200 grains). For normal use I would go with the Lyman 311041 to keep the gas check in the case neck.

[newton]

Well my first go looks like it will be the RCBS. Bought a used one from a member here. May get to try it out this year durring our modern gun season.

One me thing that you mention Pied is how it extends below the neck. I have heard this before but have not heard of it causing issues. Has anyone seen issues with it? From what I can tell, if you use a case full of powder it seems that the boolit gets pushed into the neck before the gas can cut it.

Still would like to hear more on other molds. Just felt like I should take this opportunity to buy this mold. Always like keeping the sales in the cast boolit community.

[C. Latch]

The Ranch Dog has a good enough reputation that NOE makes a copy with regular grease grooves, That is where I would start.


That's where I started and in all honesty is probably the last 30-30 mold I'll ever buy.

[newton]

That's where I started and in all honesty is probably the last 30-30 mold I'll ever buy.

Yea, I bet if this deal had not come along that's where I would have gone. But I'm gonna wait to see if I can't pick one up second hand.

[Piedmont]

Well my first go looks like it will be the RCBS. Bought a used one from a member here. May get to try it out this year durring our modern gun season.

One me thing that you mention Pied is how it extends below the neck. I have heard this before but have not heard of it causing issues. Has anyone seen issues with it? From what I can tell, if you use a case full of powder it seems that the boolit gets pushed into the neck before the gas can cut it.

Still would like to hear more on other molds. Just felt like I should take this opportunity to buy this mold. Always like keeping the sales in the cast boolit community.

I have not had trouble seating below the neck. With the low pressures of a .30-30 it probably will never be an issue. The theory on it is you don't want to obturate the bottom of the bullet into the shoulder area and then swage it back to neck diameter as it goes through the neck. A gas check is pretty hard but trying to approach jacketed pressures in something like a .308 or .30-06, I can see where it would be a problem. Seems like it might dislodge the check or knock it catywumpus, too, when it tried to swage down and fit the neck.

I believe a man named Rowles has taken over production of Old West Bullet molds and if you wanted the Frank Marshall inspired bullet (it was #311-190, if memory serves) you can probably scratch that itch. It is a true bore rider and mine can be too tight in a new Winchester barrel, but Marlins have a larger land dimension because of microgroove. Mine is perfect for a Winchester with a little throat wear, but my mold is also around 25 years old and that same cherry might be worn down or a new cherry may have replaced it.

My RCBS has a far undersized nose (.296"), but that doesn't mean yours would be the same.

[Doc Highwall]

Newton, this bullet mould is in stock at NOE right now in both 2 and 4 cavity.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=30&sort=2a&page=3&osCsid=ddh09s1l3mtlc97n0b30q9jh15

[StratsMan]

I believe Frank Marshall filed a flat on the 311284...

Newton,

I tried this with a 311334, also... Didn't do enough of them to really get a good feel for the result, but if you like the Lee, and only wanted a few with a larger meplat for hunting, then you could try filing back the nose to a larger meplat and trying it... Now that you've bought an RCBS mold, this may be a moot test... Or it could be an interesting winter project!!

[Bill*B]

There probably isn't a nickels worth of difference, one mold to the other, when it comes to killing power - but I've had good luck with Accurate Molds 31-185I/31-185J. You can tweak the designs to your pleasure, and nobody makes a better mold. Check out the Accurate Molds web site, if you are considering ordering a new one.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

The Ranch Dog is my go to mold , I bought several when he started making them...I put my other 30 cal molds on the shelf for the 30/30 Great shooter and kills DRT....IMHO

[pls1911]

On balance you'll likely find the NOE-RANCH DOG 165 as your go to bullet.
I have most of the other mentioned and deer won't know the difference if the shot is properly placed, but the SLAP factor of the RD meplat is indeed a sound to be recconed with.
It casts about 172 in my soft alloy, and heat treats to the mid 20s bhn.....HARD bullet but will not shatter on impact.
Depending on your throat, you may need to seat bullets a few thou deeper to function in your gun ... I've experienced this on several 1940s Marlins, but it makes no difference in performance.
At this point I seat for the shortest throat, and use 'em in any gun, and they work fine.
My molds have the standard lube grooves.
I seat the check, lube, and size through a .312 die then tumble lube in medium-thin LLA/JPW/MSpirits. I never have any leading with nominal loads, 1900-2000 fps.

SUPER PERFORMERS in my experience.

[newton]

I have not had trouble seating below the neck. With the low pressures of a .30-30 it probably will never be an issue. The theory on it is you don't want to obturate the bottom of the bullet into the shoulder area and then swage it back to neck diameter as it goes through the neck. A gas check is pretty hard but trying to approach jacketed pressures in something like a .308 or .30-06, I can see where it would be a problem. Seems like it might dislodge the check or knock it catywumpus, too, when it tried to swage down and fit the neck.

I believe a man named Rowles has taken over production of Old West Bullet molds and if you wanted the Frank Marshall inspired bullet (it was #311-190, if memory serves) you can probably scratch that itch. It is a true bore rider and mine can be too tight in a new Winchester barrel, but Marlins have a larger land dimension because of microgroove. Mine is perfect for a Winchester with a little throat wear, but my mold is also around 25 years old and that same cherry might be worn down or a new cherry may have replaced it.

My RCBS has a far undersized nose (.296"), but that doesn't mean yours would be the same.


That makes a lot of sense. I never thought of it bumping up the base then having to size it back down through the neck. I know that can play havoc on a gun. I have a Ruger Blackhawk that I had to shoot a bunch of lapping bullets through to open up where the barrel screwed into the frame. The bullet would be squeezed down in that spot then have to be bumped up with caused leading and accuracy issues. Once lapped I was shooting great and no leading issues.

Thanks for sharing that because I would have never thought of that.

[1Shirt]

Shuz, mine weigh right at 150 with check and lube, cast hard, to better than 22bh. Sorry it took so long to reply.
1Shirt!

[newton]

Well I got that RCBS mold and cast some up last night. Very nice boolit. But I am not sure of a few things.

It definitely does not cast as big as my Lee. So I am going to have to wonder how that will effect things. Also, the nose does not ride the bore like the Lee. Makes me wonder how that will effect things.

Maybe its just my lead mixture that is causing small boolits? I'll load some up and see what they do.

Think I'll put the RD mold on my Christmas list though. Maybe Santa will be nice to me.

[Bill*B]

The nice thing about cast bullets - we have a full plate of great designs! To my mind, the Accurate Molds 31-185J (http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-185J-D.png) is about the most that a .30-30 can handle. It feeds well in a M94. If you order one, specify your alloy and the diameter that you want. My favorite. Having mentioned it before, I'll stand aside. Enjoy your Ranger - it will get the job done.

[Lead Fred]

I have one 30 cal mould. It fits all my needs from 30wcf to 300 WM
Next summer gonna paper patch it, to see if I can get it to go faster than 2500fps, which Ive already done

That be the Ranch Dog

[newton]

I'll be testing the RCBS Wednesday. I sure do want a Ranch Dog design one day. I think after the research though that I'm gonna have to get the "newer" version because they say it's better for the M94 versus the marlin.

I hope the development will go smoothly because I'd like to try them next week at deer camp.

[Jon K]

NOE makes a copy of the RCBS...weigh in @205gn.

Good shooting Boolit.

Jon

[newton]

Well I am ready for my tests. I am going to start a new thread somewhat dealing with this because I ran into a somewhat issue last night.

I'll have to look at that NOE boolit you mentioned.

[hillbillyjoe]

Good luck on getting the NOE 311165 RD, I've been trying to order one for several months now, & it always says sold out. Even sent an email & got no response, guess I'll keep trying & may have one for next years deer season. From everything I've read, it's a very good boolitt, hope to have one some day. See ya, Phillip

[newton]

Good luck on getting the NOE 311165 RD, I've been trying to order one for several months now, & it always says sold out. Even sent an email & got no response, guess I'll keep trying & may have one for next years deer season. From everything I've read, it's a very good boolitt, hope to have one some day. See ya, Phillip

Well I guess I should have grabbed one when I had the chance. They even had it marked down to $75(?) or so. Oh well, I really want to make the RCBS work first, then I'll move on.