The Texas and the defensive pistol concealment

[beppe]

Hello evryone!!!
INGLESE



it is true that in texas, who carries a gun, he must necessarily see it

???
I was told today that some friends (italian)

[leftiye]

They are called concealed carry permits. Most places (states) it is legal to carry openly (gun is visible) without a permit. The CCW is to allow one to carry concealed.

[beppe]

Thanks Leftyie for the explanation :Fire:

[Fishman]

Texas has concealed carry permits which allow you to carry a firearm hidden from view. This is normally how one would do it.

[Nueces]

In fact, Texas requires that the handgun be concealed, no open carry.

[tazman]

To my knowledge there is no open carry in Illinois either except for police and security officers. Years ago you could(theoretically) walk down the street with a gun on your hip or over your shoulder but times have changed. If nothing else, the police will arrest you for disturbing the peace.

[leftiye]

So, "to (keep and) bear arms" you must have a CCW?

[6bg6ga]

To my knowledge there is no open carry in Illinois either except for police and security officers. Years ago you could(theoretically) walk down the street with a gun on your hip or over your shoulder but times have changed. If nothing else, the police will arrest you for disturbing the peace.


If I lived in Illinois I would have to challenge this. Disturbing the peace? I don't think so. Just my opinion.

[tazman]

If I lived in Illinois I would have to challenge this. Disturbing the peace? I don't think so. Just my opinion.

I would love to, however what money I have needs to go for reloading supplies, not lawyers.
Illinois has some strange laws about firearms. For instance, the DNR has stricter rules for transporting guns than the state police do.
You can do open carry on your own property(theoretically), at least until someone complains, hence the disturbing the peace charge.

[6bg6ga]

Would the NRA jump in and lend a helping hand ? They have lawyers and we pay the dues.

[tazman]

Doubtful. Right now they are more concerned with winning seats in congress than removing improperly restrictive laws.
At least we now have concealed carry available as an option. Apparently it is a case of if you can't see it, it doesn't bother anyone.

I live in a small town. We only have a police force part of the time( no full time officers). During the off times the county provides services.
When seconds count, the police are only 20-30 minutes away.
You have to take care of your problems yourself.

[williamwaco]

Would the NRA jump in and lend a helping hand ? They have lawyers and we pay the dues.

No they would not but you might want to take a look at:

http://www.carrydefense.com/


\

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I would love to, however what money I have needs to go for reloading supplies, not lawyers.
Illinois has some strange laws about firearms. For instance, the DNR has stricter rules for transporting guns than the state police do.
You can do open carry on your own property(theoretically), at least until someone complains, hence the disturbing the peace charge.

many jurisdictions in Wisconsin tried to charge with disturbing the peace , they lost a lot of money in the lawsuits , you have to beat them up with big settlements before they finally give in , you create the perfect storm , IE guy planting a tree in his front lawn on earth day with a openly carried gun , he wears a digital voice recorder , and runs through the court and beats the charge first then , sues the city

they very carefully and follow the exact letter of the law

Thank You Wisconsin Carry Inc.

their efforts got us very close to constitutional carry , when the constitutional carry bill was made a concealed carry license that is very easy to obtain shall issue at a very reasonable 40 dollars for 5 years first time and 25 dollar 5 year renewal, It was a long time in coming but as far as CCL go it is close to the best around in the states with it

[Wayne Smith]

In Virginia open carry is legal. You need a permit for concealed carry.

[9.3X62AL]

Open carry is no longer lawful in the People's Republic of California. The Hyper Hoplophobes in River City reacted predictably to the open carry enthusiasts who went strongly public over this issue, and the practice was disallowed as of 01-01-13 (I think.....maybe 2014). Idiotic, but that is a salient feature of California government--where all things not prohibited are mandatory.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I personally think it is time for the Feds (Read that enforced by the ATF) to over ride all state gun laws and standardize them so people can move freely between states without fear of violating some frigging law you don't even know about.

Obviously this would result in slightly more restrictive laws than in some states and obviously less restrictive laws than in states like MA, NY, IL, CA, etc.

I don't think the states should be able to circumvent any Bill of Rights Ammendments with more restrictive local or statewide ordinances.

If the locals can make gun laws, then they can make Speech Laws too, and it really opens it up to idiot local politicians doing what they think is right. We are seeing more and more of this nowadays, and it all needs to stop. :brokenima

Once the nationwide gun laws were passed, and the current Federal Laws are already pretty much where they need to be, the law would be set in stone and require a 2/3 majority vote in both houses and review by the Supreme Court to modify the law in any way. Almost like an Amendment to the Constitution except this would like be a "Change to the Amendment." This would extend to all 10 Bill of Rights Amendments, and would require the Feds and State Govts. to adhere to the Constitution instead of some cockamamie iteration put out by some local Kangaroo Court or local politician.

On Local Issues I don't care what you do. On Bill of Rights issues they need to be standardized so everyone can understand and follow the law of the land.

Notice how Free Speech is now starting to come under fire with Political Correctness driving local laws to restrict your speech to what is "comfortable" for the sheep in our society to swallow. :holysheep

With this President and his entourage of Far Left Liberals and Dependents essentially running the show for the last 6 years this country has fallen a significant amount towards Second best in the world.

We are no longer feared,,, and that is NOT a good thing, as it makes us more vulnerable!

Will they ever learn? I think not. [smilie=b:

Randy

[tazman]

I would agree to that except I don't trust the current administration (federal or state)to enforce any law they don't like or would like to see changed.
They have a habit of doing"administrative adjustments" to laws. Basically the bureaucrats "interpret" the law as they wish it to be and make their own rules accordingly. By the time the rules get challenged up the court system, the damage has already been done.

[Outpost75]

Even where legal, open carry is not a good idea.

It "scares the natives", attracts unwanted attention and can make you a target.

[30calflash]

Even where legal, open carry is not a good idea.

It "scares the natives", attracts unwanted attention and can make you a target.

Ditto. In Ct a permit is required , called a concealed carry permit, but it is legally required for transportation of a handgun. This sounds crappy BUT it means that everyone who is a non offender can get a concealed carry permit.

Some folks are pushing open carry and do so with their CC permit. I personally don't think it is such a hot idea. It gets non gun folks upset or otherwise and does no good to the gun community at large.

If it's currently ok in your locale, God bless you. At least people there are used to it.

[tazman]

In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners ID card(FOID). Required to own, purchase, or carry a firearm or ammunition in the state. They don't require that guns be registered, just the owners. Background checks are required for all purchases except private transfers. Not sure what the rules are for out of state people.
The concealed carry permit is a recent law not fully implemented yet in my opinion. Lots of people took the classes and paid all the fees but still have not received their card yet. They seem to be releasing them in batches. No other state's CC permits are recognized here.
As far as open carry, most of the people in this state would freak out. Too many people in large towns have no experience with guns and therefore feel they are all evil. All they hear about are gang members shooting every one and feel that is all they must be good for. They fear what they don't understand.
I wish there was a way to require everyone to be familiar with firearms on at least a basic level so there wouldn't be so much misinformation out there.

[Lonegun1894]

I personally think it is time for the Feds (Read that enforced by the ATF) to over ride all state gun laws and standardize them so people can move freely between states without fear of violating some frigging law you don't even know about.

Obviously this would result in slightly more restrictive laws than in some states and obviously less restrictive laws than in states like MA, NY, IL, CA, etc.

I don't think the states should be able to circumvent any Bill of Rights Ammendments with more restrictive local or statewide ordinances.

If the locals can make gun laws, then they can make Speech Laws too, and it really opens it up to idiot local politicians doing what they think is right. We are seeing more and more of this nowadays, and it all needs to stop. :brokenima

Once the nationwide gun laws were passed, and the current Federal Laws are already pretty much where they need to be, the law would be set in stone and require a 2/3 majority vote in both houses and review by the Supreme Court to modify the law in any way. Almost like an Amendment to the Constitution except this would like be a "Change to the Amendment." This would extend to all 10 Bill of Rights Amendments, and would require the Feds and State Govts. to adhere to the Constitution instead of some cockamamie iteration put out by some local Kangaroo Court or local politician.

On Local Issues I don't care what you do. On Bill of Rights issues they need to be standardized so everyone can understand and follow the law of the land.

Notice how Free Speech is now starting to come under fire with Political Correctness driving local laws to restrict your speech to what is "comfortable" for the sheep in our society to swallow. :holysheep

With this President and his entourage of Far Left Liberals and Dependents essentially running the show for the last 6 years this country has fallen a significant amount towards Second best in the world.

We are no longer feared,,, and that is NOT a good thing, as it makes us more vulnerable!

Will they ever learn? I think not. [smilie=b:

Randy

The feds sticking their noses anywhere is NOT the solution to anything. Your comment that is would result in a tightening of restrictions in some places is incorrect due to that no State makes it's laws more permissive than the Constitution allows. So the places where the laws are more restrictive, such as California--since you list that as your location--and New Jersey, among many others, and to a much lesser extent even Texas (where I am) need to change their laws to not be any more restrictive than the Constitution, and not have the feds pass a bunch more BS laws so we all share the suffering equally by making things worse for many of us as the price paid for making things better for those of you in more restrictive States. Sorry, I am all for changing the laws in restrictive places so people there can enjoy the freedoms they should, but I will fight you every inch of the way if you think I am going to give up my rights in exchange for you getting a few of the ones your State took from you back. I will also support you and help in any way I can if you stand up for your rights and fight to get them back--the condition being that you do not try to harm me and mine, which you would be doing in your initial plan posted in your 2nd sentence.

In the end, please be VERY careful what you ask for, cause you just might get it, and with the current administration, it probably won't turn out the way you were hoping. Make sense?

[dragon813gt]

I personally think it is time for the Feds (Read that enforced by the ATF) to over ride all state gun laws and standardize them so people can move freely between states without fear of violating some frigging law you don't even know about.

Obviously this would result in slightly more restrictive laws than in some states and obviously less restrictive laws than in states like MA, NY, IL, CA, etc.

I don't think the states should be able to circumvent any Bill of Rights Ammendments with more restrictive local or statewide ordinances.

If the locals can make gun laws, then they can make Speech Laws too, and it really opens it up to idiot local politicians doing what they think is right. We are seeing more and more of this nowadays, and it all needs to stop. :brokenima

Once the nationwide gun laws were passed, and the current Federal Laws are already pretty much where they need to be, the law would be set in stone and require a 2/3 majority vote in both houses and review by the Supreme Court to modify the law in any way. Almost like an Amendment to the Constitution except this would like be a "Change to the Amendment." This would extend to all 10 Bill of Rights Amendments, and would require the Feds and State Govts. to adhere to the Constitution instead of some cockamamie iteration put out by some local Kangaroo Court or local politician.

On Local Issues I don't care what you do. On Bill of Rights issues they need to be standardized so everyone can understand and follow the law of the land.

Notice how Free Speech is now starting to come under fire with Political Correctness driving local laws to restrict your speech to what is "comfortable" for the sheep in our society to swallow. :holysheep

With this President and his entourage of Far Left Liberals and Dependents essentially running the show for the last 6 years this country has fallen a significant amount towards Second best in the world.

We are no longer feared,,, and that is NOT a good thing, as it makes us more vulnerable!

Will they ever learn? I think not. [smilie=b:

Randy

Says the guy that lives in California. You need to fix your state laws. I don't want the Feds coming into my state and imposing the same dumb *** laws you have. Let's be honest, they aren't going to chose the loose laws. They would choose the restrictive ones. Fix your own state and don't preach that the Feds should fix the problem. The problem is in your state, not mine.

[Lonegun1894]

Sounds like Dragon and I are on the exact same page.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well guys: If the woman gets elected Gov. in Texas your existing gun laws will fall too. Once liberals get control of a legislature, gun laws are at the top of the agenda.

You are one step away from becoming a blue state anyway and if YOU let a few thousand more Mexicans in it will only be a matter of time until DFW, Houston, and Austin will control the whole state. Just like it is here in CA where LA and SF control the whole state.

PA is already a Blue State! you're a few steps behind us.

You have no more control over this than I do!

Yes I am advocating uniform laws across all states. The Firearms Act of 1968 is what I'm taking about and both your states laws are more restrictive than that already.

You can say what you will but if the 2nd Amendment isn't set in stone and defined further it will be dismissed.

My proposal sets it in stone, and defines what everyone can have and do. It also makes it so that "Administrations" will obey and enforce the laws by setting penalties for politicians and administrators who don't do their jobs.

Your's simply blames me for things I can't control in any way.

Randy

[Lonegun1894]

WR,
I'm not blaming you personally, just saying that compromising our rights doesn't get us anywhere except in a worse position that we would be otherwise. We need to be fighting to get our rights back to what they used to be, and not compromising bits and pieces away til we have more of an uphill battle than we currently have. So I do have a problem with your politicians, but not with you personally, well, until you ask me to give my rights away. More government control is never the answer in my book, and I don't care if that means a city, county, state, or fed law.

[MtGun44]

Elected governor does not mean king, that is a silly thing to think. Not much chance of suddenly the whole
Texas legislature becoming antigun. The legislature passes bills which may become law if the
governor signs - but the governor does not create laws by his or her self.

Bill

[tazman]

Elected governor does not mean king, that is a silly thing to think. Not much chance of suddenly the whole
Texas legislature becoming antigun. The legislature passes bills which may become law if the
governor signs - but the governor does not create laws by his or her self.

Bill
All very true. There is a problem however.
Governors can issue executive orders that bureaucrats have to follow. Bureaucrats can "interpret" the laws the way the governor wants, thereby making up their own rules that they enforce on the public.
By the time the legislature or the courts get around to doing anything to stop the nonsense, the damage has already been done. Property has been seized. Lives have been damaged. Rights have been lost.
Governors can also influence what is passed by the legislature.
Here in Illinois we have the worst of all possible scenarios. An anti gun governor with a legislature that is also mostly anti gun. The only thing saving us is the court system backing up the second amendment. If not for the courts forcing the issue, we would still not have concealed carry.
Chicago leads the anti gun issue with the mayor ruling by fiat. The mayor's rules have been overturned repeatedly but he keeps coming up with tricks to put gun owners in jeopardy of losing their rights.
For instance, his latest failed ploy of allowing concealed carry as forced by court decision but requiring long hours of training at a gun range, then outlawing all gun ranges in the city and nearby, making it impossible to get a permit. Fortunately this was overturned in court.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Lone gun: your laws in Texas are already stricter than what I am proposing. I am proposing a return to the National Firearms Act of 1968 as the Universal Gun Law and no state could have laws in excess of that.

It is a compromise but it is a compromise at a level well below where any State is at right now.

Analogy: If you look at One World Govt and how it affects us, you will see my point. In order to have a one world govt you must first have the majority of First World Nations on equal footing. The one big problem is that the US is so far above other nations it would be impossible to bring them up to our standards. However It is not nearly as hard to bring us down to their level. Disarming us is the key to it. They have already effectively disarmed many other countries, but we are the big prize.

If you look at the effect that Obama has had on this country it would not be hard to believe that his ultimate goal is to bring this country to it's knees in the name of World Peace. (I like "Whirled Peas" better) I doubt it was his idea. He is being ran by someone who keeps a very low profile. Outing that person or group would save us all.

The idea of a One World Govt is completely unobtainable for reasons I will not discuss here. But what I will say is,,, how the hell are you going to keep the peace worldwide when you can't even control the South Side of Chicago or The LA Barrios or any number of other little Cess Pools in this country that have been allowed to fester and flourish because of Political Correctness.

The Liberal Philosophy is entirely to blame for this, simply because it refuses to act when the time comes, and when it does react too late it never finishes anything. So the cancer grows.

We had the middle East won! and like Japan and Germany after WWII we should have stayed there for 50 years afterwards to make sure their new system worked the way it was supposed to, and until the generations of hidden adversaries had died off.

Obama effectively gave it all back to the insane and wasted every single life that was lost in that campaign! All this in the name of his Legacy?

These are all the reasons why we need uniform non restrictive gun laws. Unfortunately we will never see them and our country will vacillate between insanity and correction forever, or until insanity wins.

Just look at Obama on the news the other night telling a Network News Anchor that he figured it was all right for his people to distance themselves from him or lie or do whatever was necessary to get elected and then Nov 5 everybody just goes back into lock step behind him.

What kind of a leader says things like this? Well the lyin'est SOB to ever grace that office. As a result is it wrong for me to lie to a Judge? or to a cop? or my Wife? Look at our kids,, unless they are brought up under strict guidance by their parents they likely will grow up thinking it is no big deal to just lie about any old thing. Hell, Lets just create a whole generation of Pathological Liars! The President obviously doesn't think there is anything wrong with it.

This is all because somewhere along the line someone in Congress decided that they shouldn't be held accountable for what they say, and by extension how laws should be enforced.

Where does it say that the Justice Department only has to enforce whatever laws it or the President likes?

This is why states have come up with their own laws concerning Guns and other things,,, because the Feds wouldn't do it.

All of the agencies of the US Govt are completely capable of doing their jobs on a Nationwide basis if they are just left to do those jobs, and they could easily do it if they weren't encumbered by endless regulations and so many laws NO ONE can keep track.

If our leader was competent and didn't farm everything out it could be done.

If you have seen the "Hunger Games" you will get a good look at the way it will be after Insanity wins. The Liberals live real nice, while the rest of us scrape to eat, and they get to watch us kill each other once a year for entertainment!

Sounds like a Liberal Pipe Dream come true!

This is why we need a Nationwide and less restrictive gun law that can not be altered by Executive Order or anything less than that required for a Constitutional Amendment.

As long as we have guns and can use them they can never win.

I personally think any politician who proposes a gun law should be tried for Treason and Shot for Violation of the Constitution! I definitely think there should be a Death Penalty for Violating that which you are sworn to uphold! Wouldn't that bring everybody right into line?

Their goal is never your safety it is always the Hunger Games!

Think about this when you vote for a Democrat.

Ask me how I really feel?

Randy

[Lonegun1894]

WR,
Your argument makes sense in some ways, but I still have a problem with tightening any state's laws for the sake of conformity. Now if you change your stance to making the laws as loose as the loosest state, or preferably just do away with them completely, go back to having just the Second Amendment, and just allow anything short of say chemical/biological/nuclear weapons, I will be completely in your corner and will help in any way I can. I just don't want to see anyone of us get any more restricted than we are already, because as far as I am concerned, anti-gun laws of any kind are unconstitutional. I think we are on the same track, just have a slight difference of opinion on how to accomplish the same end goal. And we have to accomplish it, cause the alternative, as you have said, just isn't very pretty.

[2shot]

In Illinois we have a Firearm Owners ID card(FOID). Required to own, purchase, or carry a firearm or ammunition in the state. They don't require that guns be registered, just the owners. Background checks are required for all purchases except private transfers. Not sure what the rules are for out of state people.
The concealed carry permit is a recent law not fully implemented yet in my opinion. Lots of people took the classes and paid all the fees but still have not received their card yet. They seem to be releasing them in batches. No other state's CC permits are recognized here.
As far as open carry, most of the people in this state would freak out. Too many people in large towns have no experience with guns and therefore feel they are all evil. All they hear about are gang members shooting every one and feel that is all they must be good for. They fear what they don't understand.
I wish there was a way to require everyone to be familiar with firearms on at least a basic level so there wouldn't be so much misinformation out there.

Hi Tazman,

Can't argue with a lot you have said here but I do have to correct you on one thing. IL recognizes 19 out of state CC permits.

You can check it out here
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

I applied for and got my CC permit in less time that the state said it would take (under 60 days) and so did all my friends who applied. No doubt your right in saying that here in IL we have to jump through hoops for anything firearm related. Don't see it changing in the future but we can always hope and vote for the right people.

One other thing, it's been a while since I was LEO here in IL but the charge for open carry use to be UUW or "Unauthorized Use of Weapons", only LEO's can carry open . I would imagine that it still would be the same charge because even though UUW is a misdemeanor it carries possible jail time (up to one year) and fine unlike Disturbing the Peace which is just a fine. I'm not sure open carry would be the way to go here but there is nothing wrong with a CCW permit now that the state is offering them and it's honored in 21 different states. If you haven't got your CCW yet you owe it to yourself and the people that fought so hard here in IL to get us this right to get one. Still not perfect but a step in the right direction.


2shot

[white eagle]

I open carry all of the time on my own property when doing any chores or even just hanging out.
I have got a trailer park across from my country property and they have had the State DNR out on my property looking over my private range but nothing came from it despite their efforts.I refuse to be bullied by a bunch of people who invade my space and try to impose their will on me,never happen.Open carry and CC all the way.

[tazman]

Hi Tazman,

Can't argue with a lot you have said here but I do have to correct you on one thing. IL recognizes 19 out of state CC permits.

You can check it out here
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

I applied for and got my CC permit in less time that the state said it would take (under 60 days) and so did all my friends who applied. No doubt your right in saying that here in IL we have to jump through hoops for anything firearm related. Don't see it changing in the future but we can always hope and vote for the right people.

One other thing, it's been a while since I was LEO here in IL but the charge for open carry use to be UUW or "Unauthorized Use of Weapons", only LEO's can carry open . I would imagine that it still would be the same charge because even though UUW is a misdemeanor it carries possible jail time (up to one year) and fine unlike Disturbing the Peace which is just a fine. I'm not sure open carry would be the way to go here but there is nothing wrong with a CCW permit now that the state is offering them and it's honored in 21 different states. If you haven't got your CCW yet you owe it to yourself and the people that fought so hard here in IL to get us this right to get one. Still not perfect but a step in the right direction.


2shot

Just a small correction. I believe you used the map in your link wrong. There is a second selection button that you can click to show what permits are recognized in a given state. Illinois permits are recognized in 21 or 22 states, but only Illinois permits are recognized in Illinois according to the map.
It has been a long time, probably 25 years or more, since I had a conversation with a police officer about open carry. The laws have almost certainly changed in that period of time. The officer told me at the time that while it was technically legal for me to openly carry on my own property, if anyone complained they would charge me with disturbing the peace.
This from a small town police officer who is certainly retired by now at least. I don't really have a good way to verify what I was told.

[2shot]

Just a small correction. I believe you used the map in your link wrong. There is a second selection button that you can click to show what permits are recognized in a given state. Illinois permits are recognized in 21 or 22 states, but only Illinois permits are recognized in Illinois according to the map.
It has been a long time, probably 25 years or more, since I had a conversation with a police officer about open carry. The laws have almost certainly changed in that period of time. The officer told me at the time that while it was technically legal for me to openly carry on my own property, if anyone complained they would charge me with disturbing the peace.
This from a small town police officer who is certainly retired by now at least. I don't really have a good way to verify what I was told.

You are correct, I hit the wrong button on the map.

Carrying open on ones own property, business and residents has always been legal in IL. The only way I could see a DP charge for open carry would be if someone got into an argument with a LEO over carrying it or banishing it to passers by otherwise you would be totally protected with open carry according to the laws of IL. If ticketed for open carry on your own property with a sidearm holstered because somebody doesn't like guns would be a good reason for a law suit against the town.

[tazman]

Carrying open on ones own property, business and residents has always been legal in IL. The only way I could see a DP charge for open carry would be if someone got into an argument with a LEO over carrying it or banishing it to passers by otherwise you would be totally protected with open carry according to the laws of IL. If ticketed for open carry on your own property with a sidearm holstered because somebody doesn't like guns would be a good reason for a law suit against the town.

I agree. The policeman told me that all it would take would be a complaint and he would charge me even if I was otherwise legal. He claimed that a person complaining would be enough to get me convicted. I told him I thought that was wrong. He answered that he didn't care. That he would enforce the law that way anyway. Also that I should remember that I would then have an arrest record even if I didn't get convicted.
Nice guy.

[W.R.Buchanan]

WR,
Now if you change your stance to making the laws as loose as the loosest state, or preferably just do away with them completely, go back to having just the Second Amendment, and just allow anything short of say chemical/biological/nuclear weapons, I will be completely in your corner and will help in any way I can.

That's pretty much what I said?

The NFA pretty much only restricts you to non Fully Automatic Weapons. No nuclear or chemical or biological stuff either.

Where we get into trouble is when states start defining what guns we can have based on their looks alone, or what features they have, when they are perfectly legal elsewhere. Mag capacity Regs are Asinine, as anyone who can actually run a gun can change mags real fast. Letting the left define what an Assault Weapon is pure BS. Nobody gave them that right the NFA already defined Assault Weapons as Full Auto... period.

Also at the end of the day,,, You must be armed similarly to what the current Military Infantryman carries since the whole purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to arm the Militia (now with women in combat roles, essentially every able bodied citizen is part of the Militia whether they know it or not.) so they can fight the military if it was ordered to turn on the citizenry.

I am willing to concede Full Auto and that's about it. However it is an easy mod if you really need it. If we get into a War with the Govt. all bets are off anyway so I don't think anybody will be checking.

Also the ATF considers the Tac Fire AR Trigger to be completely legal and the rate of fire from one can be as high as 450 rpm. If you don't already know it is a "forced reset" trigger IE the trigger is forced to reset by the bolt going by the hammer, and if you hold steady pressure it resets and then your continued pressure trips it again. If you loosen pressure it forcibly resets the trigger for the next shot. IE one shot for one pull, so it's legal!

WE are on the same page, and what I am proposing is next to nothing. But I really just want all states to treat gun owners the same way.

Just like the US being brought down to the level of the rest of the world to facilitate One World Govt., you would have to bring all states gun laws down to the level of the least restrictive states.

Really this has a Fat Chance of ever happening, but we can dream,, Right?

Randy

[Lonegun1894]

I have no use for full auto, but am not willing to concede it as you are. When I was in the Service, and had full-auto capability on my weapon, I still NEVER used it except at the range once as a function-check, so I am not about to use it now even if I had it. I don't have it, and don't want it, but I also can't stand knowing that you and I, as law-abiding citizens, can not walk into a gunshop, and buy one. Yes, we can pay the outrageous prices imposed on us when the cut off the supply in '86, but I don't want one that bad, or at all really. Wanna know something interesting regarding the artificial inflation of the prices on these things? I looked at LE agency prices on these things 6 months ago. Take a wild guess what the price difference is between the AR-15 you and I can walk in and buy vs. a select-fire M-16/M-4 from most of the big name manufacturers? $50-100 added on to the price of what an agency pays for a semi-auto only version. Last time I checked prices on a transferable M-16 like you and I can buy, the prices were in the $15-20K range. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'm not willing to compromise on any of your rights or mine, because this whole compromising idea is what got us into this whole screwed up mess we are in currently, and I'm getting real tired of it, cause it's starting to seem like we're just circling the drain some days.

[garym1a2]

Being in a state with decent gun rights the last thing I want is the federal goverment to step in and give me slightly more restrictive gun laws. Sorry for people in stated with bad laws.

I personally think it is time for the Feds (Read that enforced by the ATF) to over ride all state gun laws and standardize them so people can move freely between states without fear of violating some frigging law you don't even know about.

Obviously this would result in slightly more restrictive laws than in some states and obviously less restrictive laws than in states like MA, NY, IL, CA, etc.

I don't think the states should be able to circumvent any Bill of Rights Ammendments with more restrictive local or statewide ordinances.

If the locals can make gun laws, then they can make Speech Laws too, and it really opens it up to idiot local politicians doing what they think is right. We are seeing more and more of this nowadays, and it all needs to stop. :brokenima

Once the nationwide gun laws were passed, and the current Federal Laws are already pretty much where they need to be, the law would be set in stone and require a 2/3 majority vote in both houses and review by the Supreme Court to modify the law in any way. Almost like an Amendment to the Constitution except this would like be a "Change to the Amendment." This would extend to all 10 Bill of Rights Amendments, and would require the Feds and State Govts. to adhere to the Constitution instead of some cockamamie iteration put out by some local Kangaroo Court or local politician.

On Local Issues I don't care what you do. On Bill of Rights issues they need to be standardized so everyone can understand and follow the law of the land.

Notice how Free Speech is now starting to come under fire with Political Correctness driving local laws to restrict your speech to what is "comfortable" for the sheep in our society to swallow. :holysheep

With this President and his entourage of Far Left Liberals and Dependents essentially running the show for the last 6 years this country has fallen a significant amount towards Second best in the world.

We are no longer feared,,, and that is NOT a good thing, as it makes us more vulnerable!

Will they ever learn? I think not. [smilie=b:

Randy

[dragon813gt]

Being in a state with decent gun rights the last thing I want is the federal goverment to step in and give me slightly more restrictive gun laws. Sorry for people in stated with bad laws.

I have a concern about the NRA election notice I received. They are not endorsing the incumbent Republican. Which I'm fine w/ because he is a greasy politician complete w/ slicked back hair and all. They mentioned "Supports Right-to-Cary" as the first qualifier. It goes on to say "supports concealed carry reciprocity that would ensure that law-abiding Americans w/ valid concealed handgun permits would be able to carry a concealed handgun in any other state that does not prohibit concealed carry." Since he is running for US Congress this sure seems like the NRA is pushing for national reciprocity. I do not want this since I know it will make it more expensive. As someone who isn't required to take any training I know this will be a requirement. The federal government will make a huge mess of it like they always do. I agree w/ the other two points which are anti Obama/Bloomberg agenda and for keeping the EPA from prohibiting lead ammo and tackle. While I support the NRA I'm hoping I won't be saying they sold us out again in the near future.