lyman 311334 hp for 30-30 lever

[idahojackie]

what do you think about running some 311334 hp through a 30-30 win 1894 I have both std and hp molds in the 311334 and thought I might give it a go...thanks

[pworley1]

The hollow point tip should make that essentially a flat point and should be ok, I wouldn't try the standard 311334 from a tube magazine.

[Char-Gar]

I don't think much of that notion. 311334 is a pointed bullet designed for the 30-40 Krag. Even in HP version the small meplat is small enough to raise the specter of a magazine tube detonation. Such a bullet would be fine is loaded in the chamber and used as a single shot, or with one in the chamber and one in the magazine tube for a two shot rifle, but never with more than one in t he magazine tube.

I will be the first to say that such a magazine chain fire is very much recoil induced. A light 30-30 cast bullet load probably would not produce enough recoil to pop the primer in the magazine, but why take the chance?

There is no sense flirting with disaster thinking we will most likely get by with it. There are many folks that think the chance was worth taking, just before the moment they realize they seriously screwed up. Hospitals, rehab units and graveyards are filled with such folks. "Are you feeling lucky today".

Really now, just how much of a problem would it be to use the correct bullet.

[starmac]

Why??

[Scharfschuetze]

The 311334 has a pretty long nose on it with a short body. Perfect for the bolt-action-box-magazine rifle, but most boolits designed for the 30/30 are just the opposite with a long body and short nose for use in tube magazines. With the long nose of the 311334, I don't think that you could get the design to feed from the tube magazine through the action and up into the chamber well. Overall length for the 30/30 for magazine use will probably be exceeded by quite a bit using this choice of boolit.

For plinking though, it might make a nice accurate boolit for single shot use in a lever gun. It certainly shoots well in my 1903 Springfields. As I do a lot of off hand shooting at distant targets, I've sometimes thought about this approach to extend the useful range of my 30/30 rifle and carbine. No need for magazine use in this endevour.

I just happened to have a slew of 311332 (almost identical to the 334) on my loading bench so here is a photo of one next to a classic 30/30 cast boolit. You can readily see where you might have issues with your proposal working through your action in addition to the aforementioned point on primer issue.

[helice]

It would be helpful for us if you could show us a picture of the HP boolit you intend to use. Like Scharfschuetze stated above I too have the standard 311334 which I have used in the 308/30-'06. This boolit truly does have a fairly short body and a fairly long bore riding portion. I too would be very surprised if you could get that boolit to function in your tube magazine. I fear that too much of the boolit will be extending from the case mouth making the OAL too long. It's hard for me to understand the purpose of this experiment. Give us a bit more insight as to why you would like to try this. I won't say it wouldn't work and you are more than free to try it, I just don't yet understand why you would do this combination.

[starmac]

Just curious, all else being equal in the 30/30, how much usefull range would a boolit of this design actually come out too? And would this be just practical for targets?

[idahojackie]

yea i was just woundering because it would add to the selection i could choose from out of my molds

[Scharfschuetze]

As a single shot option, I'm going to have to give the idea a try during our next shoot-a-thon over in Central Washington. We can shoot up to 900 yards on the property there and much of the shooting is between 200 to 400 yards.

A 31141 30/30 Lyman boolit has a ballistic coefficient of about .220 according to Lyman's No 3 Cast Bullet Handbook.

A 311334 has a BC of .340 from the same handbook. That's fairly significant and equals many jacketed hunting bullets used from box magazine rifles.

Let us use a velocity of 2,000 fps for argument's sake for both of the boolits. Naturally our real results may vary depending on the usual suspects involved in ballistics.

-Boolit- -100 yards (zero)- -200 yard- -300 yards-
311141 Zero -11.25" -39"
311334 Zero -10.25" -35"

At 300 yards, Lyman predicts a 100 fps advantage for the 311334. Surprising little difference and only about a seven percent velocity advantage to the longer and slightly heavier boolit.

Looking at the "paper" predictions, it may not be worth the effort for such a small gain in downrange performance. Looks like a 1/2 MOA advantage at 200 yards and a 1.3 MOA advantage at 300 yards for the 311334. Wind deflection favors the 311334 by a small margin too. Still, it might be fun to try in real life. My lever guns have good Lyman or Redfield aperture sights, so adjusting for various ranges is a snap if you understand the come ups in MOA values.

Perhaps there might be some advantage to the 311334 in the lever action silhouette game, but in real life the previous suggestion to just use a proper lever action boolit is probably well grounded.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

311334 is a bore-rider design that works very well in 2 groove barrels like the O3-A3 and 5 groove barrels like the 1917, where the lands take up a large part of the bore's circumference. It also works quite well in 4 groove barrels. Designed for the Krag, the pointy bullet is not a good idea for use in a tubular mag like found in Winchester 94's etc., where you have the point of the bullet in contact with the primer of the round in front of it. In fact it is a bad idea. Secondly the 334 is not a light bullet...it weighs in the 195-200 grain range which is too heavy for the 30-30.....which usually fires either 150 or 170 grain bullets. You could single load it, but otherwise it would seem that the design length would require a seating depth that would exceed the OAL recommended for the 30-30. If you persist and work around all this maybe it would deliver some acceptable accuracy, but considering the large number of choices already on hand for 30-30 that shoot very well, it might be not the best route to try. LLS

[idahojackie]

any fngc from 150 - 180 the modle 94 likes better

[helice]

The 30-30 has been so popular for so long there are a bunch of mould manufacturers who make boolit moulds for it. Don't over look the Lee 150 and 170 gr Flat Nose. I've found that boolit to be quite useful. There are a number of mould makers here on the forum and any of them can give you a fine 30-30 mould. Popular amongst us is what's called a Ranch Dog style boolit; large meplat & micro grooves. Very efficient boolit.