Half-jacket dies

[MOcaster]

Gentleman, I have a question for you all. Specifically, for the gentleman who are skilled enough to make swaging dies. How hard would it be to make dies for the old dedicated half-jacket swaging presses, such as the CH Swage-O-Matic, it's Herter's counterpart, the Super Bullet Maker, and the Herter's 9 ton? I have a 9 ton and I would like to use it more for the fun of it but I only have .355" dies and I don't have a 9mm to play with the bullets in.

The dies seem really simple, to me, at least. There is the main die body that is held in the press ram by a nut kind of thing (I don't really know how to describe it), the ejector rod, that goes through the die into the hollowed out ram that pushes the bullet out when the handle is raised, and the nose punch, which is held in the top of the press while the die and bullet comes up to meet it. Naturally, the nose punch forms the profile of the nose and can be changed to change to style of the bullet. It seems to me like it would be the hardest part to make. I can upload pictures later if they are needed.

Right now, I am mainly interested in a .451" set to make bullets for my 45 ACP. Also, this is an ad for anyone who has a .451" set of dies for a Herter's 9 ton press and wants to sell them. I might be interested in a .308" set just for kicks and giggles if it could be made at a decent price. I know that not a lot of people swage half-jackets anymore, but for the few of us that do, I would like to see a few sets become available. So, what say you?

[DukeInFlorida]

The direct answer to your question:

If you have some machining skills, the proper machines, and a sample set of dies from any of those presses, it would easy to scale the tools and machine a set to suit your needs.

The detailed answer:
The reloading hobby that we know and love today really only boomed after World War 2, when returning soldiers loved the guns they used, and sought ways to manufacture ammo for them. Many companies leaped into the picture to supply early bullet making devices and schemes when there was a lack of jacketed bullets available to the general public.

The half jacket design was a simple was to put some sort of a jacket on an otherwise "cast" bullet. Half jackets are just that. Think of them as glorified long gas checks. Almost half of the lead construction of the bullet still rides the lands and grooves on the way down the barrel. Old timers talk of lead cores separating from the half jackets and causing problems with bullet flight. Some guys put cannelures on the top edge of the half jacket to hold onto the lead core better.

However, along came commercially available FULL jacket style bullets, and the half jacket style of bullets went the way of the BUGGY WHIP.

I still have some occasional fun with my Swage-O-Matic reconfiguring some cast bullets into other shapes. I've also made a few half jacket bullet batches. However, the half jackets aren't really made much any more. Sure, you'll find some coming along now and then, typically from some old guy who died. But, don't plan on spending a ton of time, effort, and money on making tools for a technology where the basic raw material (half jackets) aren't available.

Most of the "swaging" community has moved on also. We opt for the swaging of full jacket bullets using either fired cases as our jackets, or buying readily available full jackets from the several companies who make them. I spend most of my swaging time making jackets from fired cases, and have little time or interest for the half jacket style bullets.

I guess there are still some who are interested in making buggy whips.

[MOcaster]

I agree with you, sir. Half-jackets aren't really worth anyone's time. But I like the novality of the old presses. I have really only made a handful of bullets in my press because it's a long process. I use a 223 Rem case as my jacket. I cut off about a quarter inch of the neck then I use the shoulder with the rest of the neck and maybe a half inch of the body of the case for my jacket. It is a long process just to make the jackets. But it's something to do and I enjoy it. Mostly just to know that I can.

I guess my real question, which I should have asked straight up, is how much would it cost to make a new set? I don't believe a reamer would be needed for the nose punch, but I could be wrong. That should keep the price down a little, but like I said, I'm no machinist, so I don't really know.

Oh, and sir, I do like full jacket swaging better. Half-jackets would just be for fun. I already swage .224" and .400" bullets. I just want to get into some other calibers cheap and have some fun on an old press.

[clodhopper]

I have Heters 9 ton press. my plan for it is to use as a dedicated core swage press.

[MOcaster]

I have Heters 9 ton press. my plan for it is to use as a dedicated core swage press.

That is an excellent idea. Where do you plan on putting the bleed hole? The top punch, I'm assuming?

[Reg]

Like many, I too had a C&H swaging press back in the late 60's and like many I quickly found it smeared lead from one end of every barrel to the other. Some say they got away with using the darned thing, I never did. It leaded badly in every .38, 357 and 44 I tried them in. I quickly sold the whole set up to someone who had read a magazine article that mentioned everything but how badly they worked.
Now many years later and knowing how well new lubes such a Recluse ( 45-45-10) and a couple of others work it would be interesting to go back and see if those old half jacket bullets would preform with a quick dipping in one of our new lubes. I am betting they would work just fine.

[williamwaco]

I had a swage-o-matic and I loved it.

I would dearly love to have it back IF I could get jackets.
The rare batch of half jackets I see around are being offered at more than commercial bullets.
I bought a set of BTsnipers dies and they work very well.

[clodhopper]

I plan to use the original location, near the middle of the die out the side. Right now I have the 357 die, and punches that came with it, and two dies I turned with a hole to big in them.

[MOcaster]

You know, it's kind of embarrassing that I didn't know how the bleed hole worked. I noticed the bleed hole in the die, but I never realized there was a correlating hole in the ram for it to line up with. (Hey, I said I haven't used it much.)

[farmerjim]

I have one of the old Herters presses and a .357 die. I have thought of getting a 224 die and making pointed semi wadcutters from 22 brass. No lead would touch the bore, only the jacket.
Would this work?

[clodhopper]

I have one of the old Herters presses and a .357 die. I have thought of getting a 224 die and making pointed semi wadcutters from 22 brass. No lead would touch the bore, only the jacket.
Would this work?

You might need a more than one die to make a good job of it. If someone is making dies for the nine ton press, I would like to find out who it is. Each die will also require two punches to fit it.

[Forrest r]

I have one of the old Herters presses and a .357 die. I have thought of getting a 224 die and making pointed semi wadcutters from 22 brass. No lead would touch the bore, only the jacket.
Would this work?

Absolutely!!!
Planned on making a set of dies for one (own 2) of my herter's 9-ton presses to do the same thing. I really didn't want a looong nosed (6r) bullet for the 223. Was going to try a loong bodied/short nosed (around 75/80g) for a 14" bbl'd contender. It will look something like this, a 110g 30-cal bullet made from 22lr cases.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/22lr110_zps922090c2.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/22lr110_zps922090c2.jpg.html)

1/2 jackets can be made from 9mm brass, some 357 bullets swaged on a herter's 9-ton using 9mm 1/2 jackets.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/hp_zps275a06d7.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/hp_zps275a06d7.jpg.html)

Some 45acp 1/2 jackets swaged on a herter's 9-ton using 40s&w cases for 1/2 jackets.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/45acpswage_zps7e66eb91.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/45acpswage_zps7e66eb91.jpg.html)

If you're worried about leading with lead swaged bullets you should try using a cast/lubed bullet for a core. Then simply swage/change the profile of that cast/swaged bullet to whatever you want. Some 93g .311 round nosed bullets that were sized/lubed and then swaged into .314 93g hbwc's for a 32-cal pistol. The .314 hbwc's left (even made then with a bevel base for easy loading) and the donor bullets/cores right.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/93tohbwc_zps9bd9826e.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/93tohbwc_zps9bd9826e.jpg.html)

Things on the bucket list for this winter with the herter's 9-ton:
Make .224 dies for the 223rem
Make hb punches along with strait punches to make/test solid round slugs (hbwc/wc) for pc'ing (powder coating).
Using cast hbwc's as cores for jacketed pistol bullets (using 9mm & 40 s&w cases) and using a hornady blank forming die set to make fmjhp's for the 9mm/357/44/45acp.