.30 Badger/.30 Reece

[NoAngel]

Would someone talk to me about these two cartridges? I just discovered them in my reading here and I am VERY intrigued.
Kind of a rimmed .300 BLK Short. I recently got another lathe to replace the one I burned out (motor fried) and I am seriously considering a barrel stub project for a single shot.
This would be great!
Where does one get dies and data? I'm betting Manson could cut a reamer without issue?

Thanks for the help fellas.

[Hardcast416taylor]

The 30 Badger is so named for its creator from here on the boolets site "badgeredd". It is simply a necked down .38 Spcl case with a light powder charge behind a 130 gr. (?) cast boolet. Edd made up this round on H&R single shots using a .30 cal. piece of barrel welded into a shotgun barrel stub then re-doing the extractor. It is a real fun gun to shoot and a perfect trainer style gun.Robert

[NoAngel]

I'm given to understand all one needs to size the case is a Tokarev sizer.
Is this basically a long necked, rimmed 7,62x25??

Anyone who has one and could post a picture, I'd be most appreciative.

[NoAngel]

Curious, what do ya'll reckon the chamber pressure runs on this little guy?
Reason I ask, we know not to put rifle cartridges on shotgun receivers BUT H&R does useshotgun receivers for .357 and .44 magnum. Would i be safe running this on a shotgun receiver?
.410's are a dime a dozen around here.

[bruce drake]

I was just playing with my 300 BLK sizer on a 357 Magnum case last weekend and made a dummy round using the same thought process. On a 357 Magnum case, its almost a complete clone of a Rimmed 300BLK and I would consider it an outstanding rabbit and squirrel roller.

Bruce

[Nobade]

Curious, what do ya'll reckon the chamber pressure runs on this little guy?
Reason I ask, we know not to put rifle cartridges on shotgun receivers BUT H&R does useshotgun receivers for .357 and .44 magnum. Would i be safe running this on a shotgun receiver?
.410's are a dime a dozen around here.

I decided 35K PSI was a good limit for it. Any more than that and the primers start getting loose. I usually hold it at about 28K, according to Quickload.

You can use 7.62 Tok data, but if you use heavy bullets the pressures start going up quickly and 0.1 grain of powder can make a big difference. Just like a 22 Hornet, you have to work up very carefully. For heavy bullets, Lil' Gun it tops. For light ones, say 120gr. and lower you can start using some faster powders. Blue Dot and 2400 work well. For really light stuff, of course any of the fast flake powders work fine just don't go trying to get high speeds out of them.

-Nobade

[NoAngel]

I would like to get Lee's 113g flat point gas check bullet up to around 1400 fps accurately.
16.5" barrel turned to about the same profile as the factory .410 barrel is the direction I'd like to go. Very light and easy to use.

[NoAngel]

So funny; I JUST posted I wanted to use the Lee C309-113-F.
Well, I bought that mold two weeks ago. It was horribly undersize and outta round. Sent it back.
Just opened my mail box a few minutes ago and my brand new on is here. Kudos Lee!


I think this could be a great boolit and cartridge combo. Subsonic loads would take small game cleanly without destroying meat. Full bore loads could take deer given proper shot placement at short range.

[badgeredd]

Ask and ye shall receive!

Second from right, 30 Badger.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Single%20Shots/PICT0791_zpsa04c3f06.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/Single%20Shots/PICT0791_zpsa04c3f06.jpg.html)

Contender with 10" barrel.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Single%20Shots/PICT0938_zpscd6e8923.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/Single%20Shots/PICT0938_zpscd6e8923.jpg.html)

H&R ... next three pictures ... barrel inserted into a stubbed shotgun barrel.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Single%20Shots/PICT0935_zps3c346689.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/Single%20Shots/PICT0935_zps3c346689.jpg.html)

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Single%20Shots/PICT0934_zps1dc88b15.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/Single%20Shots/PICT0934_zps1dc88b15.jpg.html)

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Single%20Shots/PICT0937_zps53fa27a8.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/Single%20Shots/PICT0937_zps53fa27a8.jpg.html)

Bullets I have shot in various guns in the 30 Badger.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Single%20Shots/PICT0939_zps15c2bb2c.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/Single%20Shots/PICT0939_zps15c2bb2c.jpg.html)

Star Rolling Block in 30 Badger.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/Single%20Shots/PICT0792_zps35f6cabe.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/Single%20Shots/PICT0792_zps35f6cabe.jpg.html)

The idea was to make a SIMPLE, cheap to load, fun cartridge that is miserly on powder and lead. Unlike the 30 Reece, no special dies are needed, off the shelf 30 Mauser or 7.62x25 Tok dies work well with an added 38/357Mag sizer occasionally to size the main body. The 30 Reece and the 30 Badger are essentially the same length cartridge, but I spec'ed out the 30 Badger to use 38 Special brass (cheap) with no initial trimming. The trim length is 1.165" and was spec'ed that length when I ordered the reamer.

Nobade is the one person I know of here that ordered his reamer for his build/builds (?) from the same reamer maker I had one made by, Dave Manson here in Michigan.

Edd

[badgeredd]

By the way, one can use 32-20 data for loads in the 30 Badger. As Nobade said, I'd limit the pressures to 35K psi due to the firearms and the cartridge brass. The cartridge was not intended by myself to be a barn burner, just a fun, cheap to shoot, plinker and small game cartridge. There is no reason to be concerned about the modest pressure in appropriate firearms. I would also suggest if one builds a 30 Badger on a shotgun action that they bush the firing pin or use a modern small diameter firing pin donor action. The last will preclude primer flow at reasonable 35K range pressures.

Edd

[NoAngel]

Awesome!
i love that roller.


I have ordered from Manson before. They make top notch tooling.
Thanks for posting, I think I'm about to start making chips on me a .30 Badger Handi Rifle.

[Hardcast416taylor]

As I recall in conversations with Edd about this cartridge and the possibalities of something "bigger and faster". Edd said there were other friends of his wanting such a cartridge, but using .357 Mag. pistol brass for more powder capacity and velociety besides the use of light "J" bullets . Don`t know if any such animal ever saw light of day through Edd. The down side of having this cartridge and a firearm, as I found out, is you`ll need a gallon jug of ammo after you fire the first shot to satisfy your "giggle" effect!Robert

[Nobade]

Last time I saw Dave Manson we talked about options on the 30 Badger. He suggested having the reamer made without a rim, so you could run it in as far as you felt like. You could use up to 357 max cases, and in a Contender or other single shot just make the rim cut with a boring bar. This would also allow you to use .223 cases if you wanted to, or any of the shorter versions of it. That would make a very versatile reamer! I think at some point I may get him to grind up one like that so I had both.

-Nobade

[barrabruce]

what is a big bullet load then.
150-180's load.
thinking of mainly PB shooting mostly of the breach or self seating type loads for accurate shooting with out having to size anything.any100 % loads...

thinking of a light weight target/hunting rifle.
is it throated with a 1.5deg forcing cone?

thanks in advance

[NoAngel]

Just out of curiosity, reckon how difficult it'd be to build a revolver in is caliber on say, a S&W .357 donor?

[Hardcast416taylor]

Just out of curiosity, reckon how difficult it'd be to build a revolver in is caliber on say, a S&W .357 donor?

It`s all been on single shot shotgun recievers that I am aware of. Off the top of my head for a revolver to see the light of day it would require a .30 cal. barrel then a cylinder custom timed plus custom bored for the cartridge case then bored for the .30 cal. exit face besides the shoulder angle. These are just off the top of my head with other things to consider I`m sure. In other words this is a problem for Hamilton Bowen to ponder over.

At one time there was a request made to Edd for the .357 Maximum case to be used for the parent case. I don`t think Edd really gave this request a lot of serious thought.Robert

[Nobade]

Just out of curiosity, reckon how difficult it'd be to build a revolver in is caliber on say, a S&W .357 donor?

Might check the length but it may be easy to rechamber a 30 Carbine Blackhawk for it.

-Nobade

[badgeredd]

Here's my newest 30 Badger firearm.

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/91%20Argie/PICT1000_zps10515e6c.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/91%20Argie/PICT1000_zps10515e6c.jpg.html)

It can be added to a Martini Cadet, the Star Roller above, three other Contender barrels (pistol length), and a shorted bolt action single shot in the works.

Edd

P.S. I question whether the cartridge would be useful in a revolver. It may work fine, but bottle necked cartridges haven't had a good track record in revolver in the past.

[Nobade]

This is my newest 30 Badger rifle - started out as a 22 Hornet and had Delta Gun Shop rebore it to 30 cal, 1:14 twist.

-Nobade

[badgeredd]

This is my newest 30 Badger rifle - started out as a 22 Hornet and had Delta Gun Shop rebore it to 30 cal, 1:14 twist.

-Nobade

Pretty rifle Nobabe. I'd guess you're enjoying the little cartridge then if you put it into such a nice quality firearm.

Edd

[G. Blessing]

Hey, sweet!
You guys just hit on one of my forgeten pet projects!

Somewhere here I have a win94 take off barrel in 30-30 that I bought cheap 7 or 8 years ago for almost this exact wild cat; I had come up with the idea of necking 357s to .30.Then found out it wasn't a new idea, found some sizing and load data, and bought that barrel. Then it got "back burnered" and I never got an action for it..

I should really pick up a used single shot and order that 30 Badger reamer!

hmm... a buddy has a H&R handi in .410 that he almost never shoots... hmmm... ;) :D

[badgeredd]

what is a big bullet load then.
150-180's load.
thinking of mainly PB shooting mostly of the breach or self seating type loads for accurate shooting with out having to size anything.any100 % loads...

thinking of a light weight target/hunting rifle.
is it throated with a 1.5deg forcing cone?

thanks in advance

Sorry> I missed your post earlier. The throat is defined as starting at .310 at the case mouth and tapering into the lands at 2* per side.

I shoot a 150 grain plain base a lot along with a 180 grain. I haven't tried any breach seating. I do have one bullet mold that drops a 200 grain bullet with a .299 diameter nose on the bore ride. It is a gas checked bullet and I've wasted gas checks to see if it will shoot. I "should" try it without a check to see what it'll do that way. I think, not totally sure, I was getting between 1400 and 1500 fps. I know it was ok for accuracy but not spectacular. Probably some tweaking is in order to find the full potential.

Edd

[Nobade]

Pretty rifle Nobabe. I'd guess you're enjoying the little cartridge then if you put it into such a nice quality firearm.

Edd

Yep, I sure do like it! And I figure if I get bored with it I can always lengthen the chamber for more power or turn it into a 30-30. So far it's great fun as it is, and shoots small groups at 200M with 150 or 170 gr. paper patched bullets. I still need to shoot it with lighter ones to see how it does with those, but it seems time is really short for all the things I want to do!

-Nobade

[Love Life]

Seems like a very neat cartridge!! I want one!!

[Mk42gunner]

Me too. The older I get, the more I like small almost recoilless cartridges.

Plus they are cheap to load.

Robert

[badgeredd]

My granddaughter loves shooting the rifles with my low speed, low noise loads of 1.7 grains of Bullseye under a Ideal 308241 plain base bullet. It is screaming along at 600-625 fps! When the sun is right a person can see them go to the 50 yard target with no problem.

Edd

[leadman]

The 30 Streaker was designed back in the late 60s or early 70s for handguns. 357 case necked down to 30 caliber. Read about it in an old American Rifleman I think.
Seems like there is very little new when it comes to playing with the older cartridges and it does not take long for an recently released cartridge to be modified.
This concept of necking down the 38 Spl. or 357 does make alot of sense money wise and has a good fun factor.

Error! The 30 Streaker was based on the 30-30/30 Herret case.

[Jupiter7]

It`s all been on single shot shotgun recievers that I am aware of. Off the top of my head for a revolver to see the light of day it would require a .30 cal. barrel then a cylinder custom timed plus custom bored for the cartridge case then bored for the .30 cal. exit face besides the shoulder angle. These are just off the top of my head with other things to consider I`m sure. In other words this is a problem for Hamilton Bowen to ponder over.

At one time there was a request made to Edd for the .357 Maximum case to be used for the parent case. I don`t think Edd really gave this request a lot of serious thought.Robert

The necked down 357Max exists already. Known as the 300MaxCat.

[rking22]

I thought the streaker was a shortened 30 Herrett , what am I thinking of? I have built my own 30 on the 38 special in a TCR83 and like it . I have considered using the 30 Herret and pushing the shoulder back to get a longer neck ,that is origin of my streaker question. The revolver round with the full length Herrett case would give more neck to work with in a SS.

[Nobade]

I think the Herrett shortened was the 30 Sabre Cat, but my memory is a bit fuzzy....

-Nobade

[bones37]

I have thought about the .30 Badger since I learned of it here on the forum. I like the idea of being able to use off-the-shelf dies and .38 special brass. I think it will make an excellent small game/varmint/pest round at the short(er) distances that I shoot.

Nobade, Badgeredd, how does the round shoot with the lighter pistol boolits intended for the 32acp or 32 S&W? I'm curious because the lighter weight boolits are what I would like to use in this cartridge.

Thanks,
bones37

[Nobade]

I haven't done much with it using lighter bullets. I tried some #3118 paper patched at around 2000 fps, but it didn't do very well. I am sure it would work fine at normal 32-20 speeds though. I need to spend more time working with it to get an accurate load at higher speed.

-Nobade

[badgeredd]

Using BABore's 30-100 and 30-120 which he designed for the cartridge, I've had very good accuracy at moderate velocities. For a quiet, fun load, I love a 135-150 grain bullet over a mini charge of Bullseye. Very accurate and simply fun! Since I use a lot of the ammo for the 30 Badger, I personally prefer quiet, slow loads and the pistol bullets will give you a very economical round. The cost of the primer is a major part of the cartridge cost after forming the brass.

[barrabruce]

how does the martini cadet handle this case.
thinking of a light walk around gun come casual bench rest .
I'm dreaming of a 3/4 moa rifle with cast.
any thoughts...
I know mounting a scope so as to load can be a bit of a pain though.
anyone ever handled one of those ea shaw rifles. they look good on the interweb.

[bones37]

I haven't done much with it using lighter bullets. I tried some #3118 paper patched at around 2000 fps, but it didn't do very well. I am sure it would work fine at normal 32-20 speeds though. I need to spend more time working with it to get an accurate load at higher speed.

-Nobade
Actually, 32-20 type loadings and speeds are what I seek. I would just get a 32-20, however I have a hard enough time finding 32-20 brass to form into 25-20 for my Win '92. The brass availability of 38 spec. and being able to use common dies to form and reload is very attractive.



Using BABore's 30-100 and 30-120 which he designed for the cartridge, I've had very good accuracy at moderate velocities. For a quiet, fun load, I love a 135-150 grain bullet over a mini charge of Bullseye. Very accurate and simply fun! Since I use a lot of the ammo for the 30 Badger, I personally prefer quiet, slow loads and the pistol bullets will give you a very economical round. The cost of the primer is a major part of the cartridge cost after forming the brass.

I also prefer quiet and slow loadings as well. I would not need nor want high velocity from this cartridge. I think it would be a very miserly with mini charges of Bullseye like You mentioned.
I will keep in touch as I may have other questions.

Thanks.
Bones37

[badgeredd]

how does the martini cadet handle this case.
thinking of a light walk around gun come casual bench rest .
I'm dreaming of a 3/4 moa rifle with cast.
any thoughts...
I know mounting a scope so as to load can be a bit of a pain though.
anyone ever handled one of those ea shaw rifles. they look good on the interweb.

I built one Cadet chambered for 30 Badger. It works very well.

Scope mounting can be a problem as you say, but the old type Uertle (sp) mounts and similar scopes work very well also. Otherwise a fellow needs to create his own mount...not impossible...just time and brain cell intensive. :bigsmyl2:

Benchrest shooting takes more dedication than I have available so I'll leave that to others to answer. I do shoot my 30 Badger off the bench some, but nowhere near actual benchrest type shooting for me. Small groups are fun for a few minutes to my brain. :shock:

Edd

[G. Blessing]

Quick question here, talking about loading it to 32-20 specs got me to thinking... would a gun originally chambered to 32-20 take the pressure from this cartridge(even when"standard" loaded with the heavier bullets)?

I acquired two Remington Model 25 pump actions recently. Just finish restoring one as a 25-20, and have started on the other, getting ready to mount a 32 cal barrel to chamber for 32-20, but if I can get it to feed the 30 Badger, I have a 30 cal barrel I could mount instead and have a lot more shootin' and loadin' options for this gun... Basically, I'm wondering if the old Model 25 would stand up to the 30 badger pressures..

-Gary

[roadie]

Quick question here, talking about loading it to 32-20 specs got me to thinking... would a gun originally chambered to 32-20 take the pressure from this cartridge(even when"standard" loaded with the heavier bullets)?

I acquired two Remington Model 25 pump actions recently. Just finish restoring one as a 25-20, and have started on the other, getting ready to mount a 32 cal barrel to chamber for 32-20, but if I can get it to feed the 30 Badger, I have a 30 cal barrel I could mount instead and have a lot more shootin' and loadin' options for this gun... Basically, I'm wondering if the old Model 25 would stand up to the 30 badger pressures..

-Gary

I personally wouldn't rechamber a fine old mod. 25 to any other cartridge, but if it's to be rebarreled anyway, it might be a good choice. I think there's enough difference in cartridge diameters to cause problems though.

Another potential big problem is the breech bolt, the mod. 25 is kinda an overgrown mod. 12 and I've seen lots of those with the locking lug sheared off from hi-vel .22's. I'd stick with 32/20 myself...easier all around.

[G. Blessing]

I personally wouldn't rechamber a fine old mod. 25 to any other cartridge, but if it's to be rebarreled anyway, it might be a good choice. I think there's enough difference in cartridge diameters to cause problems though.

Another potential big problem is the breech bolt, the mod. 25 is kinda an overgrown mod. 12 and I've seen lots of those with the locking lug sheared off from hi-vel .22's. I'd stick with 32/20 myself...easier all around.

thanks for the reply!
Hmm, yes I should've seen if a 357 rim dia will even go through the mag tube/action bar...

Yes, it must be re-barreled regaurdless of cartridge/bore choices. This receiver had a 218 Bee barrel on it, which I removed as soon as I got it because it was only 15" long and technically illegal installed on the receiver.

I had figured that going back to 32-20 was best, to have a matched pair of the rifles in their original calibers would be fantastic. But a short .30 wildcat has been a dream for so long, its hard to pass up the idea without looking into it. ;)


As to a breech bolt strength, I might end with one stronger than stock, but then again maybe not depending on what alloy steel I can get to work with... ((All I have now is a bare receiver and trigger guard. The one I just finished in 25-20 is Finally 99% complete, so I have all the parts to pattern off of; I am having to machine the entire action (short of a few small parts that numrich has) from scratch/from bar stock. )) Hmm. Safer not to risk ruining a Lot of custom work on a over powered cartridge though, I guess..

[NoAngel]

One can also run a .357 mag case into a .300 Blackout die to make rimmed .300 blackout.

[earthling121757]

Badgeredd, where did you have your Contender barrels done? Are those stubs you've done yourself?

I'm interested in doing up a Contender carbine barrel. At first I was looking at doing a 22 TCM rimmed on 38 Spl brass since I have thousands of them. I made a few dummies and after annealing the top 3/8" I got brass to form nicely just running them up into the TCM die.

But after reading about your cartridge I think I like the 30 Cal idea better. I intend this as a cast boolit gun anyway, and 30 cals are much easier to cast, plus I already have a bunch of molds.

[rking22]

On the M25,the barrel thread/front of reciever seems to be the weak point in that gun.I have seen one and read of another that failed there due to a overload. I would not increase the body dia of a round for the M25 beyond a 32-20. Just put a 308 barrel on it and call it a 3020. I have 2 M25s and will not part with either until they stick me in the ground. You will find them addictive:) and they are quite strong enough for the 3220s of their era.

[rockrat]

I have run a 357 max case into a 300 blackout die and made a long neck version. Haven't chambered anything like that, but did chamber a gun with a reamer done up by putting a 30-30 neck on a 357 max case. Shot it in IHMSA, worked very well.

Going to stub a NEF barrel one of these days for the long necked 300 blackout. Probably just use full length 223 brass as it will be in a single shot.

[badgeredd]

Badgeredd, where did you have your Contender barrels done? Are those stubs you've done yourself?

I'm interested in doing up a Contender carbine barrel. At first I was looking at doing a 22 TCM rimmed on 38 Spl brass since I have thousands of them. I made a few dummies and after annealing the top 3/8" I got brass to form nicely just running them up into the TCM die.

But after reading about your cartridge I think I like the 30 Cal idea better. I intend this as a cast boolit gun anyway, and 30 cals are much easier to cast, plus I already have a bunch of molds.

I use neglected or unwanted T/C barrels to make the stubs. I had investigated some manufactured stubs, but after 6 months of getting excuses and the run around, I decided I could do a stub easily from an existing barrel. The manufactured stub were to be priced in the 100-125 range so with a little luck a fellow can get an old barrel to make a stub from. Like this:

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/91%20Argie/PICT0989_zps5868b535.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/91%20Argie/PICT0989_zps5868b535.jpg.html)

http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee338/badgeredd/91%20Argie/PICT0985_zpsd656382f.jpg (http://s533.photobucket.com/user/badgeredd/media/91%20Argie/PICT0985_zpsd656382f.jpg.html)

Edd

[badgeredd]

Quick question here, talking about loading it to 32-20 specs got me to thinking... would a gun originally chambered to 32-20 take the pressure from this cartridge(even when"standard" loaded with the heavier bullets)?

I acquired two Remington Model 25 pump actions recently. Just finish restoring one as a 25-20, and have started on the other, getting ready to mount a 32 cal barrel to chamber for 32-20, but if I can get it to feed the 30 Badger, I have a 30 cal barrel I could mount instead and have a lot more shootin' and loadin' options for this gun... Basically, I'm wondering if the old Model 25 would stand up to the 30 badger pressures..

-Gary

Personally, I'd stick with 32-20 in the model 25. It isn't really a gun that should be hot-rodded and God only knows what a subsequent owner would do with it in a wildcat. Strictly my opinion.....

Edd

[woodbutcher]

:grin: Sounds like a really fun ctg for plinking and small game.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[KLR]

So how thick is the chamber wall in the new barrel? I also wonder if a barrel could be held in place using a press-and-pin system like in an AK47?

[leadman]

rking22, Gary Reeder makes, or made a revolver cartridge on a shortened 30 Herret but I can not find it on his website. I do have a dummy cartridge he gave me about 10 years ago.
No you got me wondering if the Streaker wasn't on the 30 Herret?! I am pretty sure I gave away the magazine that it was in to a friend of mine but I'll look.

Found info on the 30 Streaker on the web. It was on the 30-30/ 30 Herret case. Opps! LOL

[roadie]

rking22, Gary Reeder makes, or made a revolver cartridge on a shortened 30 Herret but I can not find it on his website. I do have a dummy cartridge he gave me about 10 years ago.
No you got me wondering if the Streaker wasn't on the 30 Herret?! I am pretty sure I gave away the magazine that it was in to a friend of mine but I'll look.

Found info on the 30 Streaker on the web. It was on the 30-30/ 30 Herret case. Opps! LOL

Lee Martin of singleactions.com states that the .30 Streaker was based on a shortened .30 Herrett somewhere around late 70's early 80's as taken from Wildcat Cartridges, Vol.II

[badgeredd]

So how thick is the chamber wall in the new barrel? I also wonder if a barrel could be held in place using a press-and-pin system like in an AK47?

For this cartridge, I imagine a guy could bore the stub and ream it to 5/8" (.625") which would leave .0925 per side wall thickness, press the barrel insert in and pin it in place. I thread the stub with 5/8-18 tap which leaves about .100" per side wall thickness at the thinnest point in the barrel insert.
I thread the barrel to have a class A fit on the threads to keep the chamber as supported as possible. One could threat the barrel with a 11/16" fine thread which would leave another .0317" per side of support in the barrel insert. It would also thin the supporting stub steel to less than .065" per side.

Edd

[Nobade]

And I know from experience that 9/16 - 24 is too small and will fail with heavy loads......


-Nobade

[KLR]

Thanks, Edd. Looks like I'm going to have to start scouring the pawn shops for a donor. :smile:

[G. Blessing]

Personally, I'd stick with 32-20 in the model 25. It isn't really a gun that should be hot-rodded and God only knows what a subsequent owner would do with it in a wildcat. Strictly my opinion.....

Edd

Well, there never will be a subsequent owner other than my kids, eventually... But, I appreciate the opinion, and it coincides with all the info I can gleam on these guns... not built for hotter rounds.

:)

I'll have to find something else to chamber for this nifty lookin round of yours.

[badgeredd]

The cheapest is a SB1 or SB2 with the small diameter firing pin. So far there are more types of firearms chambered in 30 Badger than I would have ever imagined likely. I limit the pressure to 35K psi and I believe everyone I have talked to about it seems to think that is a good safe pressure level. Because the rim and cartridge are relative small diameter, there isn't much rearward thrust or bolt thrust.

Edd

[nekshot]

this cartridge is bothering me enough to turn something into one! Do you need a extractor or can you grab them with a finger nail?

[KLR]

I stopped at a gun shop today and compared the small Rossi 410 frame to the regular Rossi frame and a H&R 20ga frame. I was suprised with how small and light the 410 is. It would be awesome to have a .30 Badger in something this small and light, but I wonder if it has enough material/strength to handle the conversion? Unfortunately, I didn't have a way to measure the O.D. of the Rossi barrel but it's significantly smaller than a H&R .410. Anyone have experience with the small Rossi?

[Nobade]

this cartridge is bothering me enough to turn something into one! Do you need a extractor or can you grab them with a finger nail?

Depends on how hot you load them. Kept reasonable, no problem. Push them too hard and you need a cleaning rod to get them out. Or so I've been told....

-Nobade

[badgeredd]

this cartridge is bothering me enough to turn something into one! Do you need a extractor or can you grab them with a finger nail?

Nobade is correct. One can modify a 22 Hornet extractor, use a 357 Mag or Maximum extractor and 223 extractor will work too, but the tips of the extractor may need to be stoned or dubbed off a little to eliminate digging into the brass. Of course a person can have the tip of another extractor tig welded up and rework it to wok too.

On one Contender pistol barrel, I used a 223 extractor and it works fine for me.

Edd

[badgeredd]

I stopped at a gun shop today and compared the small Rossi 410 frame to the regular Rossi frame and a H&R 20ga frame. I was suprised with how small and light the 410 is. It would be awesome to have a .30 Badger in something this small and light, but I wonder if it has enough material/strength to handle the conversion? Unfortunately, I didn't have a way to measure the O.D. of the Rossi barrel but it's significantly smaller than a H&R .410. Anyone have experience with the small Rossi?

I have no experience with the Rossi so I can't be of much help from my experience. I would think that a fellow may be able to make one work, but I suspect it will be more involved than stubbing a H&R/NEF barrel.

Edd

[richbug]

And I know from experience that 9/16 - 24 is too small and will fail with heavy loads......


-Nobade

You think 7/8-14 is adequate?

[badgeredd]

You think 7/8-14 is adequate?

For what barrel stub?

It would be too large for a Contender Stub.. 11/16" is the maximum you can use in a Contender as the outside diameter of a Contender is .810" or so.

Edd

[richbug]

For what barrel stub?

It would be too large for a Contender Stub.. 11/16" is the maximum you can use in a Contender as the outside diameter of a Contender is .810" or so.

Edd

NEF handi

I guess if 11/16 is enough for a Contender, I initially considered 3/4", but wasn't sure. 7/8" would be into overkill area, where I generally like to be.

[tek4260]

http://wedealinlead.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=6873&start=260

They work for more than "rook rifle" duty :)

[Hamish]

139128

More fun than a barrel of monkeys,,,,,

[Jack Stanley]

Reviving old threads guys ?? I think this one was started before I got my number one converted from .270 into a .30 Badger ....... I don't think mine looks as good as Nobade's rifle though .

Jack

[NoAngel]

Yeah that’s a nice one for sure.
I still want Edd’s rolling block. I’m hoping he leaves me that in his will.

[Nobade]

Thanks guys, maybe some day I'll get it polished out and reblued so it looks good close up too! Recently I have been treating it like like a big 22lr, shooting 150gr. Plainbase loverin bullets over 2.1gr. unique. That's about as cheap shooting as is possible, and it does great in our cast bullet silhouette match. Oh, I put an old Weaver K3 scope on it too, finally something I can slide back far enough to get proper eye relief without climbing the stock.

[full.lead.taco]

Do you guys know if MGM can do 30 badger Encore barrels?

[curator]

Do you guys know if MGM can do 30 badger Encore barrels?

I have an MGM Encore barrel chambered for 221 Fireball/rimmed which is actually .300 AAC/Blackout with a rim, or very similar to the 30 Badger on the .357 Magnum case. I use 360 Dan Wesson brass and trim to .300AAC length for excellent results.
MGM barrels are very accurate in my opinion (I have 2 of them) and priced right compared to anything from T/C performance Shop.

[MT Gianni]

I know of a 30 Badger done on a 30 cal MGM blank bbl cut with a 30 B reamer. It shoots well.

[Jeff Michel]

MGM doesn't offer a 30 Badger, but the 30 Reece is pretty much the same thing. I use 38 special brass in mine and it shoots a treat. As far as I know (correct me) The Badger uses a 38 special case and the Reece uses a shortened .357 mag case.

[woodbutcher]

:bigsmyl2: Threads like this make me drool a LOT.Wish I had the funds to get one built.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[GARD72977]

I have an MGM Encore barrel chambered for 221 Fireball/rimmed which is actually .300 AAC/Blackout with a rim, or very similar to the 30 Badger on the .357 Magnum case. I use 360 Dan Wesson brass and trim to .300AAC length for excellent results.
MGM barrels are very accurate in my opinion (I have 2 of them) and priced right compared to anything from T/C performance Shop.
I had Virgin Valley build me one back in 1999. Its marked 300-221R. Its a neat cartridge. Some what of a pain to make cases.

[dverna]

When I looked into this the numbers went south for me. By the time I added up the cost of a donor action, barrel, reamers, gunsmithing, and a new mold it was difficult to justify. I started looking at the Henry carbine in .327.

If you have some of the bits and pieces, can find reamers to rent, and/or the skill to do the work, it is a interesting option.

In the end, even the Henry numbers were prohibitive. My cheap plinking load is 2.7 gr of powder under a 125-130 gr bullet in .38 Spl cases. A child can shoot it and I have three rifles and two pistols that run it. Gearing up to add another caliber made little practical sense.

Yet, I admire the work you guys have done. There is something neat about this little baby.

[MT Gianni]

Don, I am aware of accurate charges with 1/2 of your 38 load. If it were $$ savings it would take centuries to pay for but boy are light plinkers fun.

[badgeredd]

Absolutely correct. The 30 Badger has a longer neck and slightly less case capacity.

Matter of fact, when we started working up the 30 Badger I had interest in the 30 Reece, but the idea of trimming every case to length and special dies changed my mind. For that reason I continued with the idea of using 38 Special brass and 30 Mauser dies to form and load the 30 Badger.

Edd

[dverna]

Don, I am aaware of accurate charges with 1/2 of your 38 load. If it were $$ savings it would take centuries to pay for but boy are light plinkers fun.

I agree!!

I shoot more of those mousephart .38 loads in my rifles than ANYTHING. They are accurate and just plain fun. Cost is low and I can produce 6-700/hr on the 1050 without any heroics. My fiancé loves shooting them. She can shoot a couple of hundred a session in a T-shirt and not get a bruised shoulder. She feels like she is shooting a “real” rifle instead of .22’s. The only downside she sees is having to pick up the brass. LOL.

[dverna]

Absolutely correct. The 30 Badger has a longer neck and slightly less case capacity.

Matter of fact, when we started working up the 30 Badger I had interest in the 30 Reece, but the idea of trimming every case to length and special dies changed my mind. For that reason I continued with the idea of using 38 Special brass and 30 Mauser dies to form and load the 30 Badger.

Edd

Not having to trim brass was what attracted me to your design. It is brilliant. Plus I had quite a supply of .38 cases.... and for plinking....less is more!!

[Bumslie]

Oh my this peaks my interest greatly.

Got to save this reading for later.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Mike96]

Is 1:14 twist good for 80 to 110 grain bullet's? I've just started on the 30 badger kick and want to load to around 17,000 psi for a simple bolt action single shot using the bolt handle as the locking lug like on a 22mag or would that even be possible?

[INTRLOPER]

Is 1:14 twist good for 80 to 110 grain bullet's? I've just started on the 30 badger kick and want to load to around 17,000 psi for a simple bolt action single shot using the bolt handle as the locking lug like on a 22mag or would that even be possible?


You know where that bolt body is gonna go if that bolt handle does not hold right? No way I would even consider that, twist rate will not matter much when you have a bolt body sticking out of your face/neck.

A 10 twist is much more appropriate for the speeds a 30Badger can create anyway. I have a 14 twist 30Herrett and I wish everyday that it was a 10 twist and I can drive that much harder than a 30X38 will ever be capable of. IMHO that whole slow twist/rpm thing is way overblown and does not even begin to come into play until you are talking at least double the speeds a 30Badger type cartridge is physically capable of delivering. If I wanted to shoot light bullets in a 30Badger I would choose a 9 or 10 twist as it matches the potential speeds much better.

[Nobade]

My rifle is a 1:14 and pistol Is 1:10. They both work fine. Badger doesn't push them very fast.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Awesome little cartridge. Always enjoy reading about it. Thanks, fellows!

[Shanghai Jack]

Does anyone have loading data that Reece used to provide with his dies?

Thanks

BTW MGM told me they now have a Badger reamer and are building me a custom barrel.

[Redleg11b]

Update on the 30 Badger. MGM is now offering it for chambering in their Contender and Encore barrels for those interested. If you can't do the work yourself, or know someone that can, it is a better alternative to a stub barrel.

[wmitty]

Has anyone built a .30 badger on a Marlin 1894 action? Would the necked case design have a chance of feeding correctly?

[Jack Stanley]

I think there was a guy in Michigan that converted a lever rifle , I don't know the brand though . Shouldn't be impossible after all the 38WCF ran in a lever rifle .

Jack

[blackbahart]

this thread gave me the idea with the 300 BO reamer and the 360 DW brass .This turned out not so very bad on my martini with a 24" 14-8 GT barrel .Did shoot it a dozen rounds yesterday to out on paper ,off hand but -23 and windy was not a nice day

[Jack Stanley]

Days like that make you appreciate summer .

Jack

[beechbum444]

Hmmmm how about a 1892 marlin action , yes I'm talking old pre 1894 black powder receiver the chamber pressure is thetgere

[MT Gianni]

Case capacity of my Badger is 0.1 Gr less water than 32-30. Keep the pressures the same it should work. The advantage of the ss is the length of the bullet you are able to use.

[BentSprings]

Match Grade Machine now lists the 30Badger on their Contender/Encore chamber list. :mrgreen:

[Dinny]

I am refreshing an old thread now that I have stubbed a 30cal barrel onto my H&R and chambered it 30 Badger. I'm enjoying the past conversations and appreciate having this data available.

Thanks, Dinny

[Nobade]

Great news! I hope the reamer worked out well for you.
You got me interested in playing with the Badger recently. I found a box of Lee 100 grain roundnose bullets designed for the 32 S&W long and I sized them to .308" and tumble lubed. They shoot great over 2.6 grains of Bullseye as a backyard plinking load. That is a .3cc Lee dipper so easy to load. What twist did you end up going with?

[Dinny]

The reamer cut my chamber like a hot knife through butter. It's sharp and the flutes are wide enough chips don't bind up.

My barrel is twisted 1:10".

Did you ever find a crimp die that worked well? The Lee 30 Mauser die doesn't work as well as I prefer. I resorted to using the seat die to crimp a few dummy rounds instead.

Thanks, Dinny

[Nobade]

Since they are used in a single shot, I never bothered to try to put a crimp on them. Just seat and shoot. If you wanted to, I'd think that either making your own version of a Lee collet crimp die or recutting a 32 long die after annealing it would both work. Another thought, maybe be able to shorten a 30 cal rifle die like 30-30 to do that? Have to look at drawings and see what makes the most sense.

[BABore]

The reamer cut my chamber like a hot knife through butter. It's sharp and the flutes are wide enough chips don't bind up.

My barrel is twisted 1:10".

Did you ever find a crimp die that worked well? The Lee 30 Mauser die doesn't work as well as I prefer. I resorted to using the seat die to crimp a few dummy rounds instead.

Thanks, Dinny

Make a new collet pusher for the Lee FCD collet. Just a length change based on the difference between the Badger and Mauser. Made a few of them when we were developing the round.

[Nobade]

There ya go! That makes the most sense.

[Dinny]

I'm a noob machinist but I bet I could figure that out. It will be a fun little lathe project.

Thanks, Dinny