45 Colt Hunting Load Improvement

[ejcrist]

I just got back from another pig hunt in Texas last week and used one of my SA revolvers, a Ruger Bisley BH w/7.5" barrel for the first time on a hog hunt. The only load I had was my standard handgun silhouette loads which consisted of 45-270-SAA boolits cast from straight wheel weights over 7.5 grains of Unique. I've never chronographed these loads but I'm guessing they're right around 750 fps or so, and they have proved very accurate in my opinion - I can almost always shoot 1" or less groups at 25 yards off sandbags with this load, and hit the rams at 100 yards about 1/2 the time. Anyway, the first hog I dropped was about 10 yards away and took four shots to drop. I was in an elevated stand and hit him right between the shoulder blades with 3 of the shots. During skinning I found all the bullets were pass-thru's but none had expanded hardly at all. I didn't recover the bullets but noted the sizes of the exit wounds. The next hog I shot was hit square behind the shoulder from a broadside position so I didn't fire a second shot but rather waited for him to go down, which to my disappointment never happened. He was also about 10 yards when I fired and I'm certain it was a good hit but I didn't find any blood so I'm at a loss to explain what happened. I'm guessing I hit the second pig good but may not have had any expansion again. So I'm pretty sure my decision to hunt with my low velocity target loads wasn't a good one and now I'm heading back to the drawing board to work up a hunting load. I'm guessing about 1,100-1,200 fps with this particular bullet cast from straight wheel weights will produce sufficient expansion to do the job the next time. Or, I'm thinking maybe I should try one of the cast hollow point designs at about 1,100-1,200 fps. If anyone has any thoughts or opinions I'd certainly like to hear them. Up until now I never had "hunting" and "target" loads because I was of the opinion that the most accurate load mattered far more than velocity and energy, and I still think that's the case for small game, varmints, and thin skinned animals like deer. But when it comes to miniature battle tanks like hogs I'm thinking a relatively high velocity, hard hitting load is in order to get the proper expansion and associated wound channel.

Gene

[shoot-n-lead]

Not a different load, but might try putting it through the shoulders...

Never had swc's to expand...but never had a problem with them putting animals down, either...and I do not shoot anything over 1000fps.

[ejcrist]

Do you get pass-through's or do they break shoulders without exit? Are your boolits traveling between about 800-1000?

[Jupiter7]

Behind the shoulder on a hog isn't as effective as on deer, vitals arranged differently in chest cavity. As above, up your load to around 950+ and put it through both shoulders. Unique in the 9-10grn range with 45-270 in a Blackhawk will get you there. Below is a good article on loading the 45-270 from 14k psi up to 30k psi.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20246partial.pdf

[cbrick]

I don't think with the 45 you need to worry about expansion, ya need to smack porky harder, 750 fps isn't all that hard of a smack. I use 16.5 gr Lil Gun in my 7.5 inch Bisley Blackhawk at a little over 1100 fps with the RCBS 270 SAA.

In Oregon a few years ago I used 44 Blackhawk with 300 gr RCBS HP on a 250 pound pig and hit it at 50 yards right behind the shoulder. Hit it so hard it lifted it off it's feet and landed on his back with blood spurting out of his side. Imagine my surprise when it jumped up and trotted off. I hit it again on the run at about 60 yards but got it in the neck. It went down in a dry creek bed under a tree and was trying to get up when I got there & put one in the top of it's head. Three hits with 300 grainers from a 44 mag, sometimes they just don't give up all that easy.

Rick

[RobS]

I would head north of 1000 fps if it were me and be better at 1100fps or more. Those who want to anchor an animal it's hard to hit both shoulders from a tree stand when the animal is right underneath you...........on level ground then quite easy on a broadside shot.

[white eagle]

personally I would up the velocity and use a hp or change your alloy to a pb/sn or a 50/50 ww/pb.

[shoot-n-lead]

Do you get pass-through's or do they break shoulders without exit? Are your boolits traveling between about 800-1000?

They break bones and pass-thru...but the broken bones do very well at putting an animal down.

My bullets are about 11 or 12bhn...air cooled coww.

[CastingFool]

FWIW, a friend who owns a ranch in Texas told me he uses a rifle on hogs, and tries to shoot them just below the ear. Generally drops them on the spot. If you go for the body shot, they run off into the puckerbrush and most likely you won't find it.

[shoot-n-lead]

FWIW, a friend who owns a ranch in Texas told me he uses a rifle on hogs, and tries to shoot them just below the ear. Generally drops them on the spot. If you go for the body shot, they run off into the puckerbrush and most likely you won't find it.

The ear shot works very well with a rifle...but if you put that cast bullet through the shoulders...that works very well, also.

[waco]

I don't think with the 45 you need to worry about expansion, ya need to smack porky harder, 750 fps isn't all that hard of a smack. I use 16.5 gr Lil Gun in my 7.5 inch Bisley Blackhawk at a little over 1100 fps with the RCBS 270 SAA.

In Oregon a few years ago I used 44 Blackhawk with 300 gr RCBS HP on a 250 pound pig and hit it at 50 yards right behind the shoulder. Hit it so hard it lifted it off it's feet and landed on his back with blood spurting out of his side. Imagine my surprise when it jumped up and trotted off. I hit it again on the run at about 60 yards but got it in the neck. It went down in a dry creek bed under a tree and was trying to get up when I got there & put one in the top of it's head. Three hits with 300 grainers from a 44 mag, sometimes they just don't give up all that easy.

Rick

Where in Oregon Rick?

[Dale53]

E.J.;
Here's a "picture" of a hog with the internals. You'll see that Jupiter 7's comments are right on point. Hogs are put together differently than many other animals we hunt and your hit must be in the right place (not trying to preach, just trying to be helpful):

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/feralhog1.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/feralhog1.jpg.html)

Loading your Blackhawk a bit heavier is good advice. I use that same bullet (RCBS 45-270-SAA) and there is nothing wrong with the bullet. You need a bit more velocity, IMO. You can approach 1200 fps with that bullet and a heavy charge of H110 without issue. Proper placement and that bullet will get the job done without expansion. My version of the bullet is cast from a Mihec mould that allows me to hollow point it. However, on hogs my choice would be a cast solid out of WW's plus 2% tin. That'll shoot through a hog end for end regardless of what it hits so is plenty of power if you hit it correctly.

Good hunting!
Dale53

[spfd1903]

Thanks for that anatomy info Dale53. Not on the topic, but now it makes sense to me with my first hog encounter. Hornady .30-30 Win FTX...zero, Florida hog...one.

[leftiye]

As was said, nothing wrong with the RCBS boolit, but you might try a larger meplat. Maybe the Lee 310gr. RNFP. Or maybe look at Veral Smith's WFN boolits. Especially if the ranges won't be very far, you could even go to a wadcutter. Mo velocity will do more and more damage progressively - bigger wound channel. In a .45 Colt you won't get fast enough to have .44 Man's problems with velocity in the .45-70 (lack of dwell time).

[ejcrist]

Thanks for the info everyone - great info. The anatomy picture helps quite a bit. I'll up the velocity a good bit and take more care to place the shot better on the next one.

Gene

[cbrick]

Where in Oregon Rick?

Don't remember the name of the ranch but it was just a ways east of you. I went hunting with Glen Fryxell and he set it all up.

Rick

[DougGuy]

I really like the wide meplat/large wound channel school of damage these days. HP not really needed, expansion is secondary but not necessary.

Lee C452-300-RF in Starline brass over 20.5gr LilGun, WLP primer. 50/50+2% (ww/pure lead/tin) for a BHN of 12 or so, this runs about 1150-1170, this is my "buckbuster" load, same boolit over 22.5gr H110 but cast from Lyman #2 for a BHN of 15 is my "boarbuster" load. Even with these, shot placement is key regardless of what game you are taking.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/b0365352-e008-4573-ae2e-859b8a99fe82_zps7c72c5cb.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/b0365352-e008-4573-ae2e-859b8a99fe82_zps7c72c5cb.jpg.html)

Cowboy target loads over Unique are fine for deer at close range, I like to keep the load just above supersonic so it arrives before the sound does. You would be surprised how far an animal can move in a miniscule amount of time once spooked.

P.S. A word of caution about using Unique. With your lighter boolit you may be fine with loading it to 1100, but over about 10.0gr in the .45 Colt case, Unique can become very spiky and unpredictable. 2400 and LilGun both are an excellent choice to bring the .45 Colt into the Ruger Only 24,000 - 30,000psi load range. H110/W296 is the best choice for max loadings for this caliber, but do not download it. 2400 and LilGun are the solution to wanting to download H110 from wide open throttle loads.

[44man]

I use a hard boolit in the Colt Vaquero, 300 Lee, 335 LBT or Lyman 325 gr at 1160 fps and it kills very well. Up the energy, 750 fps is not enough.
The 270 gr will be at home with about 22 gr of 296. Toss the tin can loads.
Guys keep talking up Lil'Gun and it is accurate but burns very hot and can wash out a forcing cone.
2400 is good.
DougGuy shows the good Lee and it works but really needs no expansion because the velocity he has is right.
True, you need to get through the shield on a hog and cast is no problem. Just stay away from a HP or soft button maker.
I hate ME figures but energy is still what kills by how it is applied. I would NOT use Unique even on small deer. Get the 270 gr near 1200 fps and I bet hogs will not take a step.

[DougGuy]

I think there is some truth to the erosion stories with LilGun, but not until you get up into Casull pressures. Ruger loads @ even a max of 30,000psi are not enough to cause this in a SBH, let alone loading to that sweet spot between 1150 and 1200fps.

[cbrick]

I think there is some truth to the erosion stories with LilGun, but not until you get up into Casull pressures. Ruger loads @ even a max of 30,000psi are not enough to cause this in a SBH, let alone loading to that sweet spot between 1150 and 1200fps.

Lil Gun does burn pretty hot, can even see it in the brass. I look at it as I'm not attempting loading to 454 levels, that's what a 454 is for plus the few hunting rounds I fire with this revolver/load each year and I won't live long enough to worry about throat erosion. :mrgreen:

Rick

[Lonegun1894]

I agree with the above advice of getting closer to 1K or a bit above and softening up your alloy a bit. Also, now that you have a good diagram for anatomy, use that knowledge to your advantage. I use .45 Colt, .45 ACP, .44 Mag, .357 Mag, and even .22LR and have no problems with taking down hogs, using the placement shown. With the .357, .44, and .45s, you can break the shoulders like has been said and it tends to slow them down very well.

[44man]

12 shots with Lil'Gun turned a freedom .357 into a soldering iron. Scared us off the stuff.

[cbrick]

12 shots with Lil'Gun turned a freedom .357 into a soldering iron. Scared us off the stuff.

I've never used Lil Gun in the 357 but dang Jim, how much did ya use? :confused:

I toned down Lil Gun in the 45 Colt from my original book loads, settled on 16.5 gr. With comparable velocities and Lil Gun has a much sharper recoil than other powders. I was looking for 1100+ fps and it's a comfortable load, shoots well and packs plenty of punch for me. The Ruger 45 Colt with the MP version of the RCBS 45 270 SAA (my avatar) is what I will probably use to perforate Bambi in a few weeks.

Rick

[leftiye]

Rick, you can get that much Blue Dot in wunna them. (didn't even hurt the Arminius revolter either). It's in our target velocity range too. I checked with Mr. Casull before I bought my model 25 to see if that load was safe in the S&W. But I still backed off to 15.0 grs. In a loose chamber it (16.5 grs.) will split cases (only one or two per box LOL). Expands too rapidly.

[Groo]

Groo here
Keith's 44 load was a 245gr swc at about 1100 to 1200 fps.
Super heavy bullets are not needed until you need 4,5,6 FEET of penetration .
Match up your 45 to this spec,shoot for bone, and all will be well.
Tight groups are fun but you must balance power to the target size.
If your " hunting " load will hold 1/2 the size of the K zone of the game your hunting at
your hunting distance, all is well.
Hunting with a target load is like self defense with a 22lr.
Yes, it's been done , but there is NO room for error.......

[cbrick]

Wow Groo, you make it sound like a bullet that's heavier than you believe is normal for the cartridge won't shoot well.

I have no idea what you mean by "super heavy", the RCBS 45 270 SAA was recommended and the OP is using it, is that super heavy in the 45 Colt? Tight groups sure are fun but are you trying to say a hunting load can't shoot tight groups? Elmer used a 44 with his own design SWC so is that what everyone should strive for decades later? Nothing else at least as good? Nothing better?

Rick

[44MAG#1]

Mihec clone of the RCBS 270 SAA with 19 gr 2400 will run a little over 1100 in a 5 1/2 incher and will shoot with more than enough accuracy for 100 yard shots.
This with a standard primer. I water quench.
This load is even used in a New Vaquero and is not punishing.
Also 24 gr of H110/W296 with a WLP is a good load. Will do the same in a 5 1/2 incher. I don't use CCI 350 with this load. Also use it in the same New Vaquero.
With this being said the two loads are more than safe in a Blackhawk frame gun.

[44man]

Rick, 158 gr with 16 gr of Lil'Gun. My friend did shoot fast with no cooling time. You could see barrel heat waves through the red dot!