cast hollow point

[white eagle]

At the range today and was prepping for gun deer season.Shot a 44 magnum with a MP 640 hp.
After digging in the berm I found two that were pretty representative of the performance. 1 was a prefect mushroom excellent expansion and the second was smaller say 2/3 of the boolit the nose fragmented and left the base to drive in like a Nosler Partition. The recovered boolits were fired at my own range so there is no others to be mixed in.The alloy was 16/1 lead tin and they were fired at near book max with W296 @ 100 yds.:Fire:

[44man]

Do not need a HP with the .44.

[stubert]

I'll be using the Lyman devastator in .44 this year for deer. 265 grains, checked and lubed. Why? cause it'll be fun to see the hole.

[white eagle]

Do not need a HP with the .44.
I like to have my boolits work for me
besides the more internal damage it delivers will benefit my ultimate goal of a fast humane kill
I am a behind the shoulder shooter,when all the elements are correct

[Grendel99]

You don't NEED a cast HP, but you also don't NEED to hunt with a .44 mag or a pistol for that matter. I shot three bucks last season with the Lyman 429640 Devastator HP and it did AWESOME. I also shot three deer with the Lyman 429421 Keith SWC and much prefer the HP. The Keith bullet certainly worked and none of the deer went past about 35 yards. Both bullets were cast of wheel weights with a touch of tin added and driven to around 1300-1350 fps (chronoed). All three deer with the Keith SWC ran, though two were lung shots and no shoulder was hit. The Devastator HP shot deer never went farther than 10 yards and that was only one of the three. The first two I shot dropped on the spot. The third went 10 yards with a blood trail a blind man could follow. The blood trails on the Keith SWC deer were much smaller. I never recovered any of the Keith SWC's and only one HP. The shot was almost head on and the HP went through the entire deer and ended up near his knee in one of his back legs. The HP portion sheered off, but a good chunk of the bullet still penetrated and was basically a big wadcutter. There are pics of the recovered bullet in a thread I posted about the hunt somewhere on this forum. While six deer is not a lot of experience comparing solid cast bullets to HP'ed cast bullets, the difference is pretty clear in my mind. The conditions for all six deer killed were extremely similar too. They were shot from the same same batch of powder, primer, and brass, same gun, same stand, same rest, and shot distances within probably 10 feet of each other (small shooting lane in thick cover), similar shot placement and chronographed velocity was within 50 fps. I wouldn't hesitate to smack a hog with one of these Devastator HP's either. Good luck and hope you get one!

[Ramslammer]

Need them or not I love the way they put game down. I make sure I use the right gun for the task though.
Juddy

[leftiye]

Could use a smaller HP cavity? Simple to turn down the pin.

[44man]

I have ruined too much meat and lost a few with the wrong boolits. Bad thing with the .44 is a loss of penetration if it expands too fast. I shot three with the 240 XTP and had zero blood trails, recovered all three against the far rib cage. No bone hit. I seen the deer fall over 60 yards or I could not find them in the thick.
There is a difference between a clean, fast kill and a mess with meat loss. This is with a hard WLN boolit. 118788 More damage! it amazes me you want more then this. do you kill to eat or just give a butcher your deer? I have a friend that will use nothing but a Nosler ballistic Tip in his 06 for deer because he wants an instant drop. He loses half a deer every shot.
118785

[stubert]

I had an uncle who only shot deer in the front shoulder with an "06" He threw out every thing from the ribs forward due to meat loss. He did it year after year, Gotta wonder?

[Grendel99]

I butcher all my game myself and using the Lyman 429640 HP I have been able to keep all the meat on the deer. People act like all cast HP's are small nuclear devices or something. No doubt, they can be extremely destructive but so can certain JHP's or jacketed bullets. Of course you just pick the proper constructed bullet like you would for the type of hunting you would do. Lumping all cast HP's into the same category of mini-nukes just doesn't make sense. Also, comparing the destructive qualities of 44 cast HP's at roughly 1300-1400 fps to the damage of Nosler ballistic tips at 2800-3000 fps is ridiculous. It's funny you mention not liking the 240 gr Hornady XTP in 44 cal, that is the single most liked and preferred 44 bullet for deer. Goes to show you everyone's taste is different. What one person likes another person hates.

I generally prefer to hit at least one shoulder when shooting deer or hogs using a pistol or rifle. It puts the deer down much faster. I would rather lose one shoulder (there isn't a ton of meat on a deer shoulder) than try and save every ounce and lose the whole deer because it ran too far or you lost the blood trail. Where I hunt it is so thick, even during the winter, that if a deer doesn't have a good blood trail or doesn't drop within site, you will be out there a while looking for your deer, if you find it at all.

[white eagle]

I have shot truck loads of deer
butcher all of my own ,deer,elk,bear you name it
seems to me you are comparing your 240 gr XTP to my 300 gr cast hp no where near the same
I try no to waste any meat
did I say I was hunting with a 44 mag revo?

[dubber123]

Also not a fan of the 240 XTP, for the same reason Jim indicates, I didn't get a pass through, and no blood trail. I switched to Speer 270 SP's for my little carbine for that reason. I would however, be very interested in a somewhat heavier cast HP. Our deer aren't large, and I can see the benefit of a boolit that does a little more damage in an 8" thick deer.

[reloader28]

I always test my ammo and make sure its going to do what I want before I commit to using it.
I tweek the powder load and bullet or alloy around until they do what I want.

[44man]

All depends of course, two of my revolvers SHOULD have a HP or a softer nose. The 45-70 and .500 JRH with a heavy boolit, both whistle through deer so not much is done inside.
I use 310 to 330 gr WLN boolits in the .44 and deer go no farther then 30 yards with good blood trails, never lost one. Hit in a shoulder means a lot of cleaning and I like the shoulder meat, good roasts or BBQ, strip for chili or stew.
I made a mistake once or twice with the 45-70 when I had trouble with cast. I used the Hornady 300 gr rifle bullet, did good on a buck but it exited on the off shoulder on a big doe. I lost the whole shoulder.
I shot a deer facing me with the 440 gr from the JRH and it made it through the lungs without much damage and started destruction at the liver, Obliterated the liver, stomach and guts but lungs just had a hole. So it made a good 18" before going to work. I hit a walking buck at 120 yards with it, behind the shoulder and he ran to me 100 yards and another 20 into the brush. No blood on the back trail to where I hit him. I will not hunt with it until I make the right boolit.
All the stuff about just needing a hole does not pan out. This gun NEEDS a HP or at least a softer nose.
If I used a .454 I would at least want a shallow cup point.
The .44 does not seem to need any special treatment. Neither does the .475.
Too much velocity or boolit weight in some calibers can work against you. The .45 Colt kills faster then my 45-70 with the same type boolits.
I was foolish thinking 1630 fps from the 45-70 would kill like lightning with a hard boolit, well, it doesn't, need to slow it in passage and put it to work. The right point is hard to find, if wrong you might as well tape a grenade to a deer.

[sixshot]

As mentioned, its all about matching the bullet hardness to the velocity with HP's. You can also use a solid made from pure lead & make a huge mess out of things if you want to. Hard to talk down a 44 HP & praise a 500 for deer!

Dick

[44man]

I will never talk down the .44, my standby for meat. I suppose a HP with some controlled expansion would be fine, I am not against it at all.
As long as penetration is still there I would be happy.
The reason I say what I do is you have to go a long way to find a better caliber.
Shixshot is right and the trouble I have matching each batch of ingots is driving me nuts. Each pot shoots different even though they are all WW's. Maybe I fear keeping things working.

[45 2.1]

Large caliber heavy load revolvers work fine......BUT, I'm not an advocate of shooting bone to kill something. I tried 44man's methodology some years ago... and lost two deer. One was shot with a 44 Mag full load Keith SWC at 40 yards...twice thru the heart... a big bodied doe being chased by two large bucks. She ran out of site... dry leaves, no blood or tracks. I found her a week later when it got above 40 and I smelled her. 350 yards and I did do an autopsy.... a thick layer of fat plugged all the holes. The second one was shot at 30 yards with a heavily loaded 45 Colt with a Keith SWC.... it ran close to 400 yards.... no blood, too many tracks to find it... same story. NEVER AGAIN will I shoot solids without shooting bone (preferably in the head). I can shoot a deer in the heart/lung area, shoulder or head and get the same results with my HP's (even with the smaller lower powered guns)....EVERY TIME (and I don't have a tracking job to do either). No lost game.....ever since.

[44man]

45 2.1, That is what the 45-70 and JRH will do but I have never had the problem with the Colt, .44 or .475.
However I use 325 to 335 gr in the Colt, 310 to 330 in the .44 and a 420 in the .475.
Now I can't say it is why they work but 99% of deer hit with the .475 will be legs up when I come out of recoil. Of all the deer I shot with it, I can only count two that went 20 yards. The rest have dropped so fast I don't even see it. Doesn't seem to matter if behind the shoulders or not. This caliber has the most internal damage with no meat loss at all, cut to the holes.
It is harder to control due to recoil and torque so you need to learn it. Only my .54 Hawken will put deer down so fast.
I sure don't know if boolit weight has anything to do with it because my JRH has the same velocity range and the 440 gr WFN SUCKS so I have to think there is too much of a good thing too.
Would a Keith have the energy at 250 gr or so? Remember the shoulder does not touch anything.
The other way are the 405 gr boolits in the .44 and 700 in the S&W, both the worst choice to ever shoot.
My friend Pete shot two deer with the Cast Performance 320 gr LBT's and nicked bone, smeared a side of the noses and the boolits turned 90*, blew the guts and he found the boolits in the hams.
I don't want a boolit to turn so I checked the LBT's and found they are softer then mine.
Hard for me to see a boolit shedding half it's weight and the base portion continuing through on a straight path if it is too light.
Personally I would NEVER use 180, 200 or 240 gr from the .44 if they expand fast. The energy they dump is like a tick on a deer's butt.
I remember long before I could even hunt deer in Ohio, No deer to speak of and only shot guns and muzzle loaders allowed. I set up jugs and shot all kinds of boolits into water and was amazed with mushrooms I made, said WOW, what would that do to a deer. I was stupid. Used the 240 XTP on the first three to see the truth. I would use the 300 XTP now. Or the Speer bullet.
But this is a cast sight and I will say to actually shoot deer and see. Don't look for too fast expansion, get some control and a HP will work fine.
I am happy to see that 45 2.1 has also found a boolit size hole is just not enough.
One fellas byline was a .45 was already larger then an expanded 30-06, kind of a stupid thing to say.

[GLynn41]

I use hp in my .410 GNR ( mz velocity is mid 1600) because the state of Tenn wants expanding bullets-- and they are easy to make and look good from my Mia mold,also have have a 9" TC .41 Gnr and use the penta point in it@ 1800+-- with this one lots of testing but no prize-- twice in less than 5 minutes I forgot to take the safety off on the TC-- I still have and use a LWN from Mountain Molds and a goood 4 cav Keith mold-- the HPs act like Nosler Partitions