Expander for 45-70.

[ColColt]

I haven't shot my old Browning 45-70 in probably a year and cant seem to locate the expander I was using. The boolits I use are sized to .459". Would this one be a good choice?

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Custom_Expander_Plug_it-164555.aspx?TERM=expanders

[John Boy]

One expander for $19 & shipping? Not my cup of tea.
Track of the Wolf expander plugs for 3 bucks in the Lee Expander Die
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1221/1
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/226/1/LEE-DIE-45-EX

BTW - you should have made your post in Reloading Equipment

[fouronesix]

One expander for $19 & shipping? Not my cup of tea.
Track of the Wolf expander plugs for 3 bucks in the Lee Expander Die
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1221/1
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/226/1/LEE-DIE-45-EX

BTW - you should have made your post in Reloading Equipment

Most serious BPCR shooters use a Lyman M die or similar 2 step expander like the one Buffalo Arms sells (the question in the OP). Instead of using a Lee mouth flaring tool you might as well use a pair of needle nose pliers, 50 BMG bullet or any number of other good flaring tools.

[EDG]

I think the Buffalo Arms expander is tapered so it is sort of an infinitely adjustable diameter expander.
Probably well worth the $19. I have the Track of the Wolf expanders. They work ok but they are kind of rough machined and require polishing. Since they are not heat treated they may need repolishing from time to time to keep from scoring the brass.

[country gent]

Col Colt I look in my expander die and see what size is in it. It still has the .459 expander in it. So thats what you used originally.

[Don McDowell]

Going with the "M" type expanders from Buffalo Arms is a good way to go, that way you can figure if you want a bit of neck tension you can order a .457 or .458 to hang on to the .459 bullets without a crimp.

[Tom Myers]

The case neck expander's from Track of the Wolf that John Boy is refering to are custom made to work in the Lee Powder-Through-Expander die body.

I am currently using the Trak of the Wolf expanders to load both the 45-70 and 38-55 cartridges and the plug inserts work very, very well. The insert is machined with a step-up diameter that nicely bells the case mouth and the expander portion is of sufficient length to expand the case neck to a depth that accommodates the length of some of the longer BPC molds.

The floating design of the expander plug has also resulted in a substantial decrease in the loaded case-bullet concentricity runout of my finished rounds.

An added bonus is that the die can be ordered in 0.459", 0.460", 0.461" or 0.462" sizes.

If you don't have the Powder through expander die for the 45 caliber cartridge series, be sure to order it with the expander plugs as, I think, the plugs are exclusive to that particular die.

Hope this helps.

[ColColt]

Probably the .457-.461" expander BACO offers would be what I need. With a .459" boolit that would give a .002" tension on the boolit. I have a .459" expander but the boolit won't fit in the case-not quite large enough. This rifle doesn't do well with slip fit boolits as I've tried that before.

Like most things there's many ways to skin a cat. I'll most likely get the 'M" type expander they offer and since I have a powder through die the cost for the proper expander would be miniscule.

[Char-Gar]

I use an older set of RCBS dies to load cast bullets in the 45-70 with .458 and .459 bullets. The expander measures .456 and does quite well. I have never had any reason to complain about the accuracy these dies produce.

If I were shooting very soft alloy over black powder, I would look for a larger expander, but I don't do that.

[The Goose]

I got mine here:

http://4570products.info/

[dgslyr]

Most serious BPCR shooters use a Lyman M die or similar 2 step expander like the one Buffalo Arms sells (the question in the OP). Instead of using a Lee mouth flaring tool you might as well use a pair of needle nose pliers, 50 BMG bullet or any number of other good flaring tools.

I know someone that use's a punch and I think ,from the looks of his loaded rounds ,a 4 pound hammer.Almost all of his ammo has a bulge below the crimp of his untrimmed cases.The completed rounds look like a cheater pipe was used when he roll crimped them. Many cases are wrinkled.A lot of the time he has to beat the lever closed on his Marlin 45/70.If he doesn't fire the round he just beat the lever closed on,he must get a ramrod to knock the loaded round out of the chamber with so he can get the lever open to extract the loaded round.
He also marks his loaded ammo with a letter punched on the nose of his cast bullets.After they are loaded in the case on top of the powder with a live primer sometimes not seated below flush.
This after 40 years of hand loading and bullet casting.
In answer to many folks next question.
Why ,yes he is missing a finger.Only one the last time we laughed him off the line at a CLA silhouette match.?
He has the same problem with his 30/30.
I use the .459-.461 expander from BACO. It is much better then the Lyman that is .454.The RCBS one I have is .456.I guess both were meant more for jacketed bullets.
The pic is from my Rolling Block at 200 yards ,20/1 Lyman 457125, .060 walters wad,63 grs of Swiss 2F Federal 215 Starline brass.I could never get anything close to this with the other expanders.121343

[ColColt]

I happened to find a Lee expander plug I had forgotten I had that was .457"-perfect for my .459" bullets so, that's what I've been using. It seems to do very well. Using my favorite bullet, the Brook's Postell 530 gr, I doubt I can do better.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Targets/_1DF3098a_zps12b58c88.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Targets/_1DF3098a_zps12b58c88.jpg.html)

[fouronesix]

Yes, the Lee neck expander works like the Buffalo Arms, Lyman M, RCBS, Redding, etc. expanders. Good product because they come in .001" increments and the expanders are inexpensive at about $10. Not to be confused with the Lee universal flaring tool- :(

That group looks very good!

[ColColt]

It did so well I decided to do a smiley face on one target.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Targets/_1DF3097a_zps9225cdca.jpg (http://s180.photobucket.com/user/ColColt/media/Targets/_1DF3097a_zps9225cdca.jpg.html)

[John Boy]

I am currently using the Trak of the Wolf expanders to load both the 45-70 and 38-55 cartridges and the plug inserts work very, very well.Thanks Tom for the detail overview of the TOW plugs used in the Lee Expansion Die. I agree with your post 100%

I have 25 or 30 TOW plugs. Why? because I shoot many calibers in many different caliber rifles. When I cast up caliber X for different bullet diameters, I just pull the plug that I have head stamped with the diameter of the bullet. Plus, the plugs can be lathe turned for calibers that I shoot and there is no Lyman M die for that size or the TOW plug
So in my case, 30 plugs, 3 bucks per plug for $90 is better than 30 M Dies to the tune of $600
Now, if a shooter has only one caliber rifle and in their life time will only shoot 1 type of bullet - buy the M Die

And relating to hardness of the TOW plugs, yes I polish them one time and they do not score the ID of my cases. Also as an indication of the hardness of the plugs, I cannot get a deep number when I stamp the heads of each plug for diameter size. In fact, the stamp bounces back when I hit the head using a a heavy hammer. The TOW plugs are hard steel

Aside, I use the Lee Universal Expander plug to slightly flare the mouth of my primed empty 22LR cases that are used to reload with black powder. Works perfectly. Does Lyman have a 22LR M Die? Nope and no one else either!

[longranger]

I usually just buy one of the Buffalo Arms expanding dies and be done with it.The very first one I bought was for my 45-70,they have worked so well for me I automatically buy one for any die set I plan on using cast bullets,regardless wether rifle or handgun.I have kept all of my dies either Redding,RCBS or Forster so I don't have much experience with Lee other than FCD and Lyman specialty dies.I let my targets tell me if I am doing it right.

[John Boy]

I let my targets tell me if I am doing it right.
Me too using the TOW expander plugs for my reloads:

14 rounds in the jagged hole at 100yds - 45-70 Postell with black powder
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Targets/LymanPostell100Yds.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Targets/LymanPostell100Yds.jpg.html)

10" and 20" bullseye circles at 1000yds - again black powder reloads
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Ridgway%20Oct%202008/PDRM3576.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Ridgway%20Oct%202008/PDRM3576.jpg.html)

[rfd]

i use the lyman 'm' die for case prepping smokeless loads with my single shots, but for my first journeys into black powder i'm not sizing or expanding, just charging, compressing, and pushing in the lead over the wad.