22 LR ammo MAY BE letting up???????

[oldred]

A couple of days ago I was at the local ACE hardware store and I noticed in their small selection of ammo sitting next to a few boxes of centerfire and shotshells was 6 fifty round boxes of 22 LR. I thought that was kind of odd since they have only a small selection of anything related to sporting goods but I never bothered to ask about them figuring they would last about as long as snowflakes in July. Well yesterday I was buying some feed at the Farmer's co-op and I spotted several 50 round boxes of Winchester 22 LR sitting on the shelf along with the rest of the ammo just as it was several years ago before the panic, I asked the kid working the counter and he said that yes they have sold a bunch but they have not been out of them since they got the new ammo in about two weeks ago. I know for a fact that back in the summer they sold any and all RF as fast as it came in but now even with the fall hunting season upon us RF ammo is sitting there unsold, no 22 Mags yet but he took my phone number and said he would call when they came in.

Maybe this time it just MIGHT be letting up some!

[M-Tecs]

I am seeing the same thing. Hopefully its getting better. Prices seem for be coming down at shows also.

[dragon813gt]

It will vanish w/ a few more confirmed Ebola cases.

[jaystuw]

Yesterday I bought a 333 Winchester box of 22's at Walmart at 7.30 in the evening for 17 bucks and change! Also got a few boxes of Federal PAPER 12 gauge shells! I didn't know they still made paper shotgun shells. Really exciting to get both rarities in one visit! Jay

[ph4570]

I just snagged some 17 HMR ammo at Midway.

A couple of weeks ago I got a brick of Federal Match 22 LR subsonic at Midway. It was pricey but always is. My Winchester 1885 loves the stuff. I took a match with it a couple of months ago.

[imashooter2]

When you can buy cases again at the standard online retailers, then I'll consider it back.

[ShooterAZ]

When you can buy cases again at the standard online retailers, then I'll consider it back.

+1 I bought two cases of 5000 CCI Mini Mag on sale at Midway before all this crazy hoopla started, and am glad I did. I've been shooting my 22's as usual...and sharing a bit with friends in need.

[runfiverun]

I see a little here and there.
at 10 cents a round they can keep it.
until I can buy 22's cheaper than I can make 357,300 b.o., 44 mag, or duplicate 22 mag performance from one of my 22 rifles they keep it.

[9.3X62AL]

22 LR supplies might be lasting 24-48 hours on a retailer's shelf......but to characterize such a circumstance as "normalizing" is wishful thinking to an extreme degree.

[Lee]

525 round box for $22. That was 6 MONTHS AGO, from a retailer who is NOT advertising. Could have got 1400 round for $60+, didn't have the scratch. Limit one. I bought one. Do the math. The shortage exists because of the pinheads, ninja mall warriors, scalpers, meth heads and other low-life looking to turn a quick buck. That's all. :evil:

[merlin101]

In case ya don't know, the UN small arms treaty is being implanted 12/24/14. I know the senate hasn't ratified it but that doesn't matter to the UN! They say that they now have 50 signatory countries and thats enough. Also don't forgot obama does have a pen ya know. I can see another run on ALL shooting supplies.

[MaryB]

UN cannot enforce it without senate approval. They try it and they will find out how hard we will protect our rights.

[Bloodman14]

Yeah, baby! What she said!! ^^

[BNE]

I see a little here and there.
at 10 cents a round they can keep it.
until I can buy 22's cheaper than I can make 357,300 b.o., 44 mag, or duplicate 22 mag performance from one of my 22 rifles they keep it.

I concur. I did actualy see my first box of 500 this week. This was the FIRST I have seen in 2 years. Of course they wanted $50 for the box....

I have enoughto shoot, but I have mostly decided to quit shooting 22s until they are readily available and not ridiculously expensive.

[Blacksmith]

A few boxes of one brand/type is not normal. I remember when there was a selection to choose from.

[Iowa Fox]

Things have been dry around here since late spring 2012. Oldest son and I always purchased 2 cases in the late winter early spring to last us to the end of the year. Like imashooter says, when we can buy cases on line I'll consider things back. The manufacturers want to blame everyone but themselves. I don't believe horders can control a large market. As for my son and I, we're busy pulling the levers on our Dillons and having a lot of fun. Cast bullets still has us shooting cheap but I do hate looking for our 45acp brass. Never saw anything that could hide like it does.

[Bad Water Bill]

i was told tonight that my local Cabelas has 350 roung bargain boxes in stock for $19.99

I just found ANOTHER of my Sears 50 round boxes of 22LRs marked .63 so just might take a friends wife out in their backyard range for her first time in years firing a revolver.

[3006guns]

Yesterday I bought a 333 Winchester box of 22's at Walmart at 7.30 in the evening for 17 bucks and change! Also got a few boxes of Federal PAPER 12 gauge shells! I didn't know they still made paper shotgun shells. Really exciting to get both rarities in one visit! Jay

Hey.........save your empty hulls for me! I cut them down to 2 1/2" for my black powder scatterguns!

[3006guns]

Things have been dry around here since late spring 2012. Oldest son and I always purchased 2 cases in the late winter early spring to last us to the end of the year. Like imashooter says, when we can buy cases on line I'll consider things back. The manufacturers want to blame everyone but themselves. I don't believe horders can control a large market. As for my son and I, we're busy pulling the levers on our Dillons and having a lot of fun. Cast bullets still has us shooting cheap but I do hate looking for our 45acp brass. Never saw anything that could hide like it does.

True. The first time I fired a 1911 years ago, I thought someone had invented disappearing cases!

[Bad Water Bill]

I thought someone had invented disappearing cases!

Well if they didn't invebt it explain why I fired 50 rounds of 9MM and could find only 3 pieces of brass.

Either my eyes are even worser than I think OR 1 the cases disappeared or 2 the gremlins are back AGAIN.:evil:

[Lee]

Don't entirely blame the manufacturers. You need to go Wally Mart at 8am and watch the Neanderthals go in buy 3, go out, come back IN BUY 3, GO OUT COME BACK IN BUY 3.

These tacticools have no idea what a .30 at 200 yards will do to their prepper mentality! Assuming they are not scalpers. I laugh when it blows up, in their duck face...............

[MaryB]

200 yards? Why get so close? AR is good to 400+ and a 55 grain ballistic tip in the face would ruin your day

[btroj]

Don't entirely blame the manufacturers. You need to go Wally Mart at 8am and watch the Neanderthals go in buy 3, go out, come back IN BUY 3, GO OUT COME BACK IN BUY 3.

These tacticools have no idea what a .30 at 200 yards will do to their prepper mentality! Assuming they are not scalpers. I laugh when it blows up, in their duck face...............

Neanderthals? I thought they were just capitalists enjoying the right to make purchases of their choosing.

[SteveS]

The manufacturers say they're running 24/7 pumping out all they're capable of. I haven't heard anyone say different. It's pretty easy to tell if a factory is running or not.

Combined with what the employees at the stores and gun shops tell me and what I have witnessed myself, it's pretty easy to see that the shortage is still going on and it's the hoarders and scalpers who are causing it.

If I found some for sale at the hardware store I would certainly pick up a box or two and leave the rest for the next guy.

[Petrol & Powder]

The availability of .22 rimfire is improving but the prices haven't caught up with reality yet.

THIS IS GOOD NEWS! The fact that .22's are staying on the shelf is an indicator that the market forces are starting to correct the madness.
Two issues at play here:
1. The people that have .22 ammunition stacked from floor to ceiling in every closet are starting to realize that they have enough and they are starting to feel like they could get more if they wanted.
2. The people who refuse to pay ridiculous prices for rimfire ammo (like me) are still perfectly willing to wait for the prices to come down to reasonable levels. The manufacturers and retailers HAVE to sell the stuff, they can't eat it.


I predict the prices will come down. When the speculators start releasing those millions of hoarded rounds onto the market in an attempt to recoup some of their investment, the prices may come down A LOT!

[nagantguy]

Also found d some yesterday, 3 Winny bulk boxes and and and ready a 50 rd box of CCI .22 mag. Bought the four boxes gave one to little girl one to my brother and one to our local.firearms instructor you is very generous with ammo and range time fer kids. Good family friend and all around hell of a guy. For that bulk box several kids will get to fire his 50,rounds safety course!

[Bad Water Bill]

When the largest dealer at the local gun show had cases of 22LR priced by Cabelas for $14.99 PER BRICK (yes it was on sale 8 miles away) and the dealer wanted $49.99 with a big sign reading "This ain't 1936 pay todays price or get out of my face" I knew where a major problem was and in some cases STILL is.

Several of the old time dealers just closed up shop saying they would not be associated with that show any longer.

Yes there were a few choice words on that large dealers sign that my puter will not allow me to type here and show management said 0 about the profanity either.


I no longer attend gun shows BUT do cast and shoot a lot more 22 caliber rounds than ever before.

218B.221 fireball,222 and 223 are still great rounds to use and for less than the scalpers want.

But then again I am just a DIRTY OLD MAN with old fashioned ideas.

[oldred]

The availability of .22 rimfire is improving but the prices haven't caught up with reality yet.

THIS IS GOOD NEWS! The fact that .22's are staying on the shelf is an indicator that the market forces are starting to correct the madness.
Two issues at play here:
1. The people that have .22 ammunition stacked from floor to ceiling in every closet are starting to realize that they have enough and they are starting to feel like they could get more if they wanted.
2. The people who refuse to pay ridiculous prices for rimfire ammo (like me) are still perfectly willing to wait for the prices to come down to reasonable levels. The manufacturers and retailers HAVE to sell the stuff, they can't eat it.


I predict the prices will come down. When the speculators start releasing those millions of hoarded rounds onto the market in an attempt to recoup some of their investment, the prices may come down A LOT!

That's what I am hoping for also, a market flood when the panic subsides and the scalpers are trying to unload their hoard on a shooting public that already has a major stash of their own!

I think some may have misunderstood my post, I was in no way saying the shortage is over and I fully realize we still have a long way to go it's just that finally seeing some ammo sitting on the shelf unsold is a good sign that things MAY be letting up some but I also realize it's possible we may never again see what we once considered normal. With any kind of luck we may even see a "reverse" panic as the hoarders/scalpers discover they have huge supplies but no market anymore!

[imashooter2]

LOL! Hoarders have no intent of selling and scalpers are turning their inventory as fast as they get it. Hoarders are a tiny percentage of the total shooting population, and scalpers have no effect on he shortage at all, because what they buy, they sell. The shortage is caused by people shooting more .22LR than the manufacturers can supply. Simple as that.

[375supermag]

hi...

I was able to pick up a a 50rd box of CCI .22mag HP Maxi-Mags for $13.99 yesterday at one of the LGS.

they had several on the shelf...I have probably 5-600 hundred rounds squirreled away, but thought an additional box or so couldn't hurt. they had no posted limit on how many one could purchase, but I saw no reason to clear the shelf.

I also bought a pound of Titegroup powder for $19.99. I have never tried that powder, but thought it would make a useful back-up to my favored Bullseye in .45ACP, .38Spl and maybe 9mm. at any rate, I will load 50-100 rounds of each with the recommended charge at my desired velocity and see how it does compared to Bullseye in my guns.

If nothing else, it gives me something to do one evening this week coming and I may learn something. If it works well, I will buy a couple more pounds when available as a hedge against future shortages. Presently, the shop had 4-5 more pounds on the shelf, so it may be more available than some other powders.

Better to have options. I did the same thing at another LGS yesterday, when I bought a pound of IMR4227 as a potential substitute for 2400 and/or H110/W296.

Both shops had several more pounds of IMR4227 on the shelf, so apparently it is becoming more available than heretofore, at least on a limited scale.

One thing is certain...I am going to learn about a couple of new(to me) powders and also shoot some more, if I can find the time. Not a bad thing, IMHO.

[Petrol & Powder]

....... The shortage is caused by people shooting more .22LR than the manufacturers can supply. Simple as that.

You're welcome to your opinion but I don't share it.

[fastfire]

200 yards? Why get so close? AR is good to 400+ and a 55 grain ballistic tip in the face would ruin your day


I was easily hitting a 12" plate yesterday @ 710yds with my AR .223, 60gr Nosler BT

[JSnover]

It's both the new shooters and the hoarders/scalpers. Production has been maxed for quite a while. http://www.centredaily.com/2014/06/21/4234928/supply-shortage.html

[shdwlkr]

I was easily hitting a 12" plate yesterday @ 710yds with my AR .223, 60gr Nosler BT

why are you shooting that plate at such a short range? ha ha good shooting

[dancingbear41]

I am glad that .22 ammo is appearing again for you guys. I always worry when the panic buying starts because at some point over here in England the supply will stop. I thought things must have been getting better when I was in my local dealer's recently and he said he had a batch of Federal .22 coming in. I bought 10,000 rounds for myself and my gun club. You won't want to know what we have to pay over here but, by current standards, the price was not too bad. It will see me shooting for a while to come.

Simon.

[Lee]

Agreed!

[Lee]

You don't know where I live. 200 yards is about it. In Wyoming? Well, that's a horse of a different color...............

[mainiac]

Last 2 weekends in a row, the dicks in bangor has had 22lr..amazing!! All they have is rem,,but its better then nothing!

[merlin101]

UN cannot enforce it without senate approval. They try it and they will find out how hard we will protect our rights.
Your thinking here on our soil, Think bigger real BIG like globally! If the UN shuts down import and export of arms, ammo and parts do you think that would effect you? Do you for even one second think obama would try to stop it? Or maybe he would do "an end run" around "the do nothing congress" with his "pen and phone"?
Your rights mean absolutely nothing to the UN when they consider the "greater good", after all they know whats best for us and are determined to give it to us even if it kills us!

[shooterg]

All the CCI in 500 round camo bricks you want at last weekend's show- at $60 a brick !

46 Senators voted FOR the UN **** - should've been 100 against.

[Gator 45/70]

Not sure what a hoarder is?
I was in the boy scouts once and I did learn a few things.
I'll be moving along now....


lol

[btroj]

I think most use the term hoarder to describe those who have something they want and can't find at a price they are willing to pay.

I prefer to call them Democrats

[oldred]

Who you callin Democrat ya low-down varmint? Them's figtin words!!!! :evil:

[Bad Water Bill]

Well you can NOT blame it all on the hoarders.

When was the last time you could go in and find a full selection of most any caliber ammo only weeks before hunting season?

When I visit the range, many times it is almost empty and no 22 brass anywhere to be seen.

[snowwolfe]

Not sure what a hoarder is?
I was in the boy scouts once and I did learn a few things.
I'll be moving along now....


lol

Is that all you got? Unless you got about a dozen more of those containers stuffed full you should be out there buying more:)

[2wheelDuke]

Maybe I'm a hoarder. I just picked up 2 325rd boxes of Federal Auto Match because it was on the shelf. I may have to look for some more in a day or two hoping they still have it. That used to be my match practice ammo. Maybe I can start to practice for matches again.

[btroj]

Who you callin Democrat ya low-down varmint? Them's figtin words!!!! :evil:

Did I told touch a nerve? No insult intended, just making a statement about my feelings about hoarders and gougers. They are people who have things we want and won't sell at prices we are willing to pay. I call them capitalists.

Seriously, I don't mean to insult anyone, just give them a different way to view the situation.

Buy what you want, when you want. Anything else stinks of socialism.

[Lee]

Not worth getting into..................

[dale2242]

I saw CCI standard velocity at Wally World today for $7.50 per 100.
Went to the gun show . 500 rnd. bricks were priced from $50-$65.
No one was buying....dale

[KohlerK91]

i was told tonight that my local Cabelas has 350 roung bargain boxes in stock for $19.99

I just found ANOTHER of my Sears 50 round boxes of 22LRs marked .63 so just might take a friends wife out in their backyard range for her first time in years firing a revolver.

118357

Kinda what i have been doing too.

[fatelk]

Definitely STARTING to lighten up. I've seen .22lr in stock a couple places lately locally, and I don't tend to watch closely either. There's a regional forum and the .22lr on the trader section there has been trending downward in price and staying up a little longer before someone grabs it. I'm like a lot of you all, though. I have a bunch I've had for years so this whole thing hasn't bothered me at all. I don't shoot a lot though.

As to hoarders and scalpers and capitalism and such; I don't worship at the alter of capitalism myself. Yes, capitalism is the best economic system, and definitely better than socialism, but it's still a human system run by flawed humans.

A socialist will see something and say "There ought to be a law", then go about making more laws to impose his vision of utopia on everyone else. In the free market, something may be legal and I'm not going to be calling for more laws, but I certainly reserve the right to say "That's just not right" when something seems unethical. I kind of think capitalism works better with some ethics involved, rather than everyone just greedily grabbing what they can.

Just my 2c for what it's worth (can't even buy a single 22lr round for 2c any more, so I guess it's not worth much). :)

[Gator 45/70]

Naa, I have a few more laying around in the man cave, A brick will last me for years.

I never could understand the cats at the range with a spiffy looking AR shooting 22lr's at a rate of fire like their intentions are to burn up a brick in 42.7 seconds? What a waste of ammo!



Is that all you got? Unless you got about a dozen more of those containers stuffed full you should be out there buying more:)

[Bad Water Bill]

I met A ninja at a unsupervised range one day.

Full green camo and highly polished jump boots.

He was prone with his ninja cool AR and a stack at least 10 boxes tall laying along side him.

No target on the backstock so I asked him what he was shooting at?

He was going to cut both 4 X 4s supporting the backstock off level with the ground.

Yes his reckless use of firearms forced that range closure and now many conscientious shooters have to drive many more miles to find a safe place to shoot.

Never did see him again BUT I did go back the next week and pick up 38# of nice shiny Winchester 223 brass for free.

Never did go back and ask the D N R Cop what he did to the ninja.

I really do not want to know.

[SteveS]

As to hoarders and scalpers and capitalism and such; I don't worship at the alter of capitalism myself. Yes, capitalism is the best economic system, and definitely better than socialism, but it's still a human system run by flawed humans.

A socialist will see something and say "There ought to be a law", then go about making more laws to impose his vision of utopia on everyone else. In the free market, something may be legal and I'm not going to be calling for more laws, but I certainly reserve the right to say "That's just not right" when something seems unethical. I kind of think capitalism works better with some ethics involved, rather than everyone just greedily grabbing what they can.

Thank you for that fatelk.

[Dr.S]

In case ya don't know, the UN small arms treaty is being implanted 12/24/14. I know the senate hasn't ratified it but that doesn't matter to the UN! They say that they now have 50 signatory countries and thats enough. Also don't forgot obama does have a pen ya know. I can see another run on ALL shooting supplies.


http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r710/lawdogtko/scum_zpsdad472c4.jpg (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/lawdogtko/media/scum_zpsdad472c4.jpg.html)

[Plate plinker]

I watched that movie too. That's how I remember it exactly.

[Garyshome]

I might have to start going to wal mart in the morning again.

[9.3X62AL]

I saw CCI standard velocity at Wally World today for $7.50 per 100.
Went to the gun show . 500 rnd. bricks were priced from $50-$65.
No one was buying....dale

CCI SV at $7.50/100 pack is semi-reasonable. The gun show pricing is nuts. I'm a stone-to-the-bone capitalist, but I recognize gouging and depredation, too. Don't feed the gouging, rip-off jerks--and they might just go away.

[DHurtig]

I was in Walmart here today and they had the standard velocity CCI 100 round boxes in stock.. Limit of 3 boxes at $7.47 a box.

[btroj]

Thank you for that fatelk.

And who gets to decide what is or is not ethical?

Ah yes, that is another whole can of worms, isn't it?

[fatelk]

And who gets to decide what is or is not ethical?

I guess you'll have to decide for yourself. It's a free country. :)

[bobthenailer]

This past weekend my wife & myself each picked up 3 boxes of 100ct of CCI SV ammo at our local WM @ $7.47 each, I had to run back over sunday morning on my way to the range to get something we forgot and they still had a few thousand of the CCI SV ammo left WOW ! , so i picked up another 300 and gave them to my long time shooting buddy, and to my surprise it jut happened to be his birthday. It's funny how some 22lr ammo can put a smile on someones face !

[Petrol & Powder]

There's a difference between an asking price and what something actually sells for.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people will label a seller as a "gouger" but then go ahead a pay the exorbitant price.
It isn't what the seller thinks it's worth that sets the price. The price is what someone will actually pay for it!
I don't blame someone for asking a high price, I blame buyers for paying a high price. It's a self correcting problem if the buyers maintain some semblance of reality and stop letting others spin them into a frenzy. Of course we can only control ourselves and I can't stop the guy next to me from paying the high price and therefore encouraging the seller's to make a large profit (which he has every right to do). I can only control what I pay for the item. Because we can't individually control the actions of the collective group of buyers we tend to do the only thing that we have left, which is whine about the sellers that we collective support.

Capitalism does work and the free market is influenced by many factors, including fear.

[dale2242]

I find it interesting how the price and availability of 22lr ammo always seems to turn into an ethics discussion on this forum.....dale

[dtknowles]

And who gets to decide what is or is not ethical?

Ah yes, that is another whole can of worms, isn't it?


We each do and you vote with your wallet.

Tim

[oldred]

Did I told touch a nerve? No insult intended, just making a statement about my feelings about hoarders and gougers. They are people who have things we want and won't sell at prices we are willing to pay. I call them capitalists.

Seriously, I don't mean to insult anyone, just give them a different way to view the situation.

Buy what you want, when you want. Anything else stinks of socialism.



No offense was taken, just the opposite in fact, that was an attempt at humor but I guess it came across the wrong way, it was supposed to be joking and not at all to mean I was truly insulted.

[oldred]

it jut happened to be his birthday. It's funny how some 22lr ammo can put a smile on someones face !


Yep I have given away a few boxes of Winchester 22 LR as Birthday gifts and it went over real well!

Back when I was a kid I would cherish my 22 ammo and each one meant a lot, ammo was cheap and plentiful back then but not to a 14 year old back in the hills of Kentucky in the early sixties! Heck just getting out to a store where ammo was sold was not exactly an everyday event and the 35 cents a 50 round box cost was not that easy to come by either when my sole income was picking blackberries for 15 cents a gallon! Now that 22 ammo is even harder to get, albeit for different reasons, it reminds me of those days long ago and because of the way it was when I was growing up I could look at my stash and it made me feel wealthy even before the panic!

[btroj]

We each do and you vote with your wallet.

Tim

I agree entirely.

As long as there are people willing to pay the price the price won't come down.

[BAGTIC]

If the export is shut down that just means more American ammo will stay here to relieve our shortages. If imports are cut off it will create more permanent demand for U.S. producers so they could justify expanding their manufacturing capacity.

[starmac]

If the export is shut down that just means more American ammo will stay here to relieve our shortages. If imports are cut off it will create more permanent demand for U.S. producers so they could justify expanding their manufacturing capacity.

In my twisted way of thinking, that would be against everything a society built on capitalism stands for.

[SteveS]

In my twisted way of thinking, that would be against everything a society built on capitalism stands for.

What makes you think our society was built on capitalism? Some might say it was built on democracy.

[imashooter2]

What makes you think our society was built on capitalism? Some might say it was built on democracy.

And those folks would be wrong. The USA is not a democracy.

[SteveS]

That's true. Nor are we a capitalist country.

In some ways we are democratic. In some was, a constitutional republic. We have strong elements of capitalism, socialism and even some fascism, with a good dose of libertarianism thrown into the mix. We are a melting pot or a tossed salad (depending on how you look at things) in a lot more ways than just nationalities.

[starmac]

This country was built on capitalism, lots of folks want that to change, and are somewhat getting their way.

[fatelk]

In this whole discussion of capitalism, ethics, democracy, etc., one thing that's never brought up is why is the price so comparitively cheap from the manufacturer and Walmart?

In a a purely supply and demand, free market system they would raise their prices to whatever the market will bear, and the scalpers wouldn't have anything to do because there would be no profit in it for them.

i think it's because they know full well that it's a bubble that will pop sooner or later so they're just sticking to their normal pricing structure rather that grab the most they can in the short term.

as far as the gun show guy asking crazy prices- yeah they can charge whatever they want, and others can pay it if they want. My approval or not is irrelevant, as it should be. What irritates me is when they camp out at Walmart, then call in all their family and friends to buy it all up before anyone else can get any.

yea I know my approval or not is irrelevant there too, but I can still gripe about it can't I?

[oldred]

We are a melting pot or a tossed salad (depending on how you look at things)


With some of the changes in this country in the past few years Fruit cake also comes to mind!

[Bad Water Bill]

Fruit Cake

When did they change the recipe?

Mom and all of her sisters (yes all 7 of them) made them and they were moist yet kept for months.

Well mom is gone and so are her recipes.

I had a taste and someone mentioned a great site so I ordered one.

You could drive nails into concrete with the supposed fruit cake because it was that hard and dry.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Fruit Cake

When did they change the recipe?

Mom and all of her sisters (yes all 7 of them) made them and they were moist yet kept for months.

Well mom is gone and so are her recipes.

I had a taste and someone mentioned a great site so I ordered one.

You could drive nails into concrete with the supposed fruit cake because it was that hard and dry.

What? Did you post in the wrong place Bill?

[Bad Water Bill]

Look at post 76

[btroj]

Bill may be the smartest man here. Not coherent but smart.

[Blacksmith]

Bill may be the smartest man here. Not coherent but smart.

It is really Gertie that does the thinking. :kidding:

[btroj]

I don't see downside to that.

[Bad Water Bill]

BIG MOUTH

I had everyone fooled all these years and now you snitch.

See if I bring her back to your place when she needs new shoes.:bigsmyl2:

[btroj]

Again, I don't see the downside to that.

[Pb2au]

Of course Bill is the smartest among us. I learned back in 2010 when I joined to listen to him. I mean he studied with Plato and Socrates for Pete's sake....

[btroj]

With? I though he taught them!

His posts are almost as clear to me as Ancient Greek.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Look at post 76

Ok. I see. Fruit cake WAS mentioned, but you went a little off topic...

Maybe that was for the best the way this thread is headed.

[MaryB]

Picked up a 1,000 round box of Winchester M22 for $50.87 at WalMart today. They had 3 I only took 1 of them.

[Frank46]

Heard a story that wal mart is holding up quantities of 22rf to be sold during the black friday sales after thanksgiving. If its on the internet it must be true?. Frank

[fatelk]

I heard a rumor that there's a run on 9 volt batteries; that the government is going to regulate them or something and you won't be able to get them any more- something about the environment and toxic metals and something called "Doe Run" or something?!?




Added: sorry for the lame attempt at humor. just thought I'd try to start a run on something else so maybe people would let up on .22 ammo a bit. :)

[shooterg]

"Picked up a 1,000 round box of Winchester M22 for $50.87 at WalMart"

Winchester makes 1000 round bricks now ? That'll make it easier on us hoarders !

[starmac]

I was checking out and got to talking to the cashier at sportsmans. It seems now it doesn't matter what day 22 ammo arrives, they hold it until friday mornings before setting it out for sale. The truck is suppose to come on tuesday, but sometimes didn't make it, and too many people complained if it wasn't there tuesday. This may be because it is the main, basically only place for many miles to get it, and maybe people were coming from afar for the chance to get some.

[dragon813gt]

"Picked up a 1,000 round box of Winchester M22 for $50.87 at WalMart"

Winchester makes 1000 round bricks now ? That'll make it easier on us hoarders !

It's two boxes of 500 packaged together. That price is $6 more than it was pre shortage. So that seems fair to me. I would have bought all three. It's the only ammo that runs all of my 22s. Even the finicky ones eat that stuff up. They had non at the walmart by me today :(

[MaryB]

They had a 1 box per person sign up on 22lr. Or I might have grabbed more of it!

[Gator 45/70]

Well, I glad to see a comeback on 22 ammo.
Now the Slackers whom can't plan/remember the shortage from a few years ago will get off their duffs and plan for the next shortage,

But I'm not holding my breath on that one, Carry on.

[NewbieDave007]

I find it interesting that some get bent out of shape about "hoarders" of 22lr or powder or...

All the while when others bad mouth people that didn't/don't have enough to get through any/all shortages.

Just an observation.

[dragon813gt]

You have the noticed the massive hypocrisy as well as the socialistic views of the firearm "community". It's all about getting your "fair share" to a large percentage of people. All very sad IMO.

[oldred]

I find it interesting that some get bent out of shape about "hoarders" of 22lr or powder or...

All the while when others bad mouth people that didn't/don't have enough to get through any/all shortages.

Just an observation.

There are hoarders and then there are folks who hedge against the lean times.

I mentioned this guy back when the current panic started, he came by my place to ask if I had a 22 pistol to sell (I would not have sold one to this idiot if I had of had one) and while there he showed me part of his stash. He had thousands of rounds stacked in the truck of the car he was driving and told me he had more than that at home, the panic had just begun and 22 ammo could still be found although it was selling fast. He told me "Obama has outlawed it and you won't be able to get anymore when this is gone so I'm gettin it while I still can", this from a guy who probably hadn't shot up a 50 round box in years! That guy is the hoarder and most of us know one or more just like him, now multiply this twisted thinking scenario by thousands of times and you have an army of hoarders! I guess my definition of a hoarder is someone who buys way more than they will ever shoot and those who stash away a reasonable supply that they have every intention of using at some point are just being smart.


Personally I managed to stash away a few thousand rounds of which I have shot what I needed but probably not as much as I would have had they been more easily available, I have gifted some to family members who were out (hey it beats a pair of socks or a tie for a gift on most occasions!) but as the panic drags on I have been getting a bit stingy lately.

[6bg6ga]

Wait until the government adopts laws to tell us the maximum amount of ammunition we may have on hand.

[imashooter2]

Wait until the government adopts laws to tell us the maximum amount of ammunition we may have on hand.

Any such law will include reloading components to count the same as loaded rounds. If such a law is passed each will have to decide their course of action for themselves.

In the meantime, "hoarders" are a miniscule part of the shortage. And the definition of same is so vague as to be useless.

[btroj]

I have long said a hoarder is someone who has what you don't have. A gouger is someone who won't sell at the price you want.
I haven't shot 22LR in year but do have 5K plus rounds of it. I bought it well before "the panic".

Am I a hoarder? I will freely admit that I sure wish I had bought lots more when CCI Blazers were 8.99 per 500. Lots more.

[SteveS]

Hoarding has nothing to do with you wanting or wanting more of what someone else has. People can hoard things that no one else wants and still be a hoarder.

Gouging refers to a situation in which a seller prices goods at a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. Some folks think gouging is fine and their right, as long as they are the one doing the gouging.

[jcwit]

Hoarding has nothing to do with you wanting or wanting more of what someone else has. People can hoard things that no one else wants and still be a hoarder.

Gouging refers to a situation in which a seller prices goods at a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. Some folks think gouging is fine and their right, as long as they are the one doing the gouging.

AhHa, A voice of reason!

[oldred]

"hoarders" are a miniscule part of the shortage

People lining up at WalMart and every other place that sells 22 Rf and buying out every single round for sale in a matter of only a few hours or, as is very often the case, in a matter of minutes and this has been going on for nearly three years now but that's just a MINISCULE part of the problem?????? Yeah right!!!!! :roll:

[dtknowles]

Hoarding has nothing to do with you wanting or wanting more of what someone else has. People can hoard things that no one else wants and still be a hoarder.

Gouging refers to a situation in which a seller prices goods at a level much higher than is considered reasonable or fair. Some folks think gouging is fine and their right, as long as they are the one doing the gouging.

Who decides what is reasonable or fair?

Gouging is by definition is not fine or a right but when do price increases become gouging?

If price caps are put in place won't we need ration coupons so everyone can get some of the price controlled products or will it be first come first served and we can all just wait in lines.

What if I have a ration coupon and I go to the store and there is nothing on the shelf?

What if I buy a price controlled product using my ration coupon and then decide that I don't need it. Can I sell it and if I do, do I need to collect a ration coupon from the buyer and can I sell it for more than I paid?

People should not gouge, most can tell when they are being gouged and when they are gouging. Gougers should be shunned but I don't see any point in the government getting involved.

I remember gougers selling gas cans, gas, propane, generators and chainsaws after hurricanes. The government cracked down because some people complained. Good luck finding these items next go round as the risk of working the deals that happened last time has gone way up to the point nobody is going to load up a truck and take it to the disaster except the GOV and we know how effective they are.

Tim

[NewbieDave007]

Although my favorite hobby is to target shoot I don't NÈED ammunition to survive. Now if a natural disaster happens and my areas water supply is contaminated then I (and my family) NEED water to survive.

One of those situations could have gougers while the other had people that don't want to sell the good for the price I WANT to spend on it.

Now, if you are talking about the moral side then it gets a lot trickier and everyone has their own beliefs.

What about your favorite firearm? If I came up to you on the range and offered to buy it, would you sell it to me for "fair market value"? Or would you likely say "No thanks"? What if I offered you 10 or 100 times "fair market value"? I'm guessing the at some point you would sell it. It may be at an insane price, but generally there would be a price that "allowed" you too sell it. There are exceptions to this but rarely.

[NewbieDave007]

People lining up at WalMart and every other place that sells 22 Rf and buying out every single round for sale in a matter of only a few hours or, as is very often the case, in a matter of minutes and this has been going on for nearly three years now but that's just a MINISCULE part of the problem?????? Yeah right!!!!! :roll:

Honestly, this is exactly how I got my stash almost a year ago. I will say though that in the lines I was waiting in there were 2-3 shooters (or as some have called us horders), while the vast majority didn't know Jack about firearms and would generally talk about how much "a friend of theirs" was getting for the 22lr they were getting/selling. Until people stop paying the inflated costs and shooters become comfortable with supplies, 22lr won't generally sit on the shelf very long.

[dakotashooter2]

People lining up at WalMart and every other place that sells 22 Rf and buying out every single round for sale in a matter of only a few hours or, as is very often the case, in a matter of minutes and this has been going on for nearly three years now but that's just a MINISCULE part of the problem?????? Yeah right!!!!! :roll:

My question has always been............ do these people have a job?........ I work and don't have time to stand in line at Walmart during the day... and if they don't have a job how can they afford to be buying this ammo unless they are turning around and reselling it?

[SteveS]

Who decides what is reasonable or fair?

We all do.


People should not gouge, most can tell when they are being gouged and when they are gouging. Gougers should be shunned but I don't see any point in the government getting involved.

I don't see anyone suggesting that the government get involved but I do agree that people should not gouge and that gougers should be shunned. Why should they be shunned?

[dtknowles]

My question has always been............ do these people have a job?........ I work and don't have time to stand in line at Walmart during the day... and if they don't have a job how can they afford to be buying this ammo unless they are turning around and reselling it?

Retired and have a pension maybe, or they work nights or weekends or part time or have flexible work hours. Of course many of them are reselling it.

Tim

[NewbieDave007]

My question has always been............ do these people have a job?........ I work and don't have time to stand in line at Walmart during the day... and if they don't have a job how can they afford to be buying this ammo unless they are turning around and reselling it?

From my experience you have a mix of people who can flex their time (like me), retired (largest percentage I've seen), and then 1-2 that don't appear to have had a steady job in some time. Also, people do have days off so that is also a possibility. Wal-Marts around here get shipments every day and I've picked up 22lr on all (including Sundays).

[dtknowles]

We all do.



I don't see anyone suggesting that the government get involved but I do agree that people should not gouge and that gougers should be shunned. Why should they be shunned?

You agree they should be shunned but then ask why, why do you think they should be shunned? I think they should be shunned because it might get them to stop gouging and settle for reasonable profit margins. I support local businesses when they have reasonable prices and it does not have to be the lowest just reasonable. I will shun them if they are outrageous.

Tim

[fatelk]

Here's an easy solution: Walmart just needs to raise their price to a point that the "scalpers" can't make enough money. That's the problem: Walmart is just too cheap. How's that?

[SteveS]

You agree they should be shunned but then ask why, why do you think they should be shunned?

I think they should be shunned because what they are doing is wrong.

[NewbieDave007]

Or....or.... Now this is a crazy idea, BUT people could do something about their situation instead of calling names and not changing a darn thing.

Does anyone think that I enjoyed getting up early and getting to a Wal-Mart 2-2.5 hours before they brought the ammo out while I was on PTO between Christmas and New Years last year? Not to mention the large numbers of scalpers that show up and aren't part of the shooting community.

Looking back on it I'm glad I did it and my family has been able to shoot as much 22lr as we have wanted and have years worth to enjoy as we see fit.

One last point I'd like to make and that is if true shooters (or hoarders if that makes you feel better) were the ones filling those lines then you wouldn't see the crazy prices as they are getting them for themselves. Also, the 22lr scalpers that I've seen are relatively lazy so if there were any question if they were going to get any to resell or if there were to many shooters in line before themthen their ability to sell vanishes and they have nothing to sell.

[imashooter2]

People lining up at WalMart and every other place that sells 22 Rf and buying out every single round for sale in a matter of only a few hours or, as is very often the case, in a matter of minutes and this has been going on for nearly three years now but that's just a MINISCULE part of the problem?????? Yeah right!!!!! :roll:

That's right. Minuscule. Walmart is a small percentage of the billions of rounds of .22 sold in this country. And those folks buying it all are not all "hoarders." They are almost all of them shooters and resellers. And I'll say it again since it seems to fall on deaf ears, resellers (scalpers to some of you) have ZERO effect on the shortages, because they return all the product they buy back into the economy. It is at higher cost, but it is still available.

[waltherboy4040]

22lr isn't letting up, I can still find it but its sold out within a day.

17hmr on the other hand seems to be everywhere except walmart. I think that caliber will become pretty popular.

[9.3X62AL]

Scalpers annoy me, but I have complete control of their influence on my shooting activity--by choosing to NOT deal with them, period. Most of us here exert a lot more control over our ammo supply via our casting activities than do many other shooters, so to put it bluntly......our lot should be among the last to really complain about ammo or component availability.

After 6+ years of uncertain to unobtanium availability of the supplies we use to conduct our hobby activities, it occurs to me that the industries catering to our hobby field have very weak supply streams and very little inventory depth. I don't think this is a new situation, but has prevailed for many years. A part of me considers this both weak-sistered and ridiculous, but at the end of the day there really isn't much I can do to make it better--so I need to adapt, evolve, or cash in my chips. I'm doing some of all three.

[garym1a2]

You are exactly right. I brought 22's at my Walmart today, they are std velocity CCI @7.42/100 limit 3. At that price the scalpers will not make money and its price good enough for the ones that want to shoot. Its been on the shelf at this store since saturaday. If they had 550 bulk boxes at $10-15 per they would last 10 minutes or less.


Here's an easy solution: Walmart just needs to raise their price to a point that the "scalpers" can't make enough money. That's the problem: Walmart is just too cheap. How's that?

[oldred]

That's right. Minuscule. Walmart is a small percentage of the billions of rounds of .22 sold in this country. And those folks buying it all are not all "hoarders." They are almost all of them shooters and resellers. And I'll say it again since it seems to fall on deaf ears, resellers (scalpers to some of you) have ZERO effect on the shortages, because they return all the product they buy back into the economy. It is at higher cost, but it is still available.

I didn't say just Walmart I said Walmart and every other place that had it for sale! How anyone can think that has a MINISCULE effect is hard to understand, it is the biggest reason for the so-called shortage. Plain and simple, the "shortage" is because of people buying it as fast as it hits the shelves and it's just unreasonable to think they are shooting all this ammo, it's hoarded away for whatever their reasoning be it legitimate or unfounded it's still the problem. What other reason is there? The manufacturers are producing it to max capacity so it's going somewhere and until everyone is satisfied that their hoard is big enough and they stop buying then the "shortage" will continue!

[starmac]

Manufacturers of all types are the same, no matter the product in todays world. They are only set up to make it as fast is it moves on the retail market. The political climate just put a major run on anything firearm related. I suppose we should be gratefull that it is what it is instead of a similar run on food or any other product nessicary for life itself. Our tax structure has a lot to do with it, manufactureres are not going to warehouse a long term supply only to have to pay invintory tax on unsold products.

We would really squeal if 22 ammo was rationed like it was in WW11, but if everything else was rationed that was then, the people of this country would have to do some serious adjusting just to survive in todays world.

[NewbieDave007]

Someone "hoards" because of lack of availability (what it sounds like you are talking about), increased price ("scalpers", but more importantly the buyers), or very rarely a mental disorder (isn't much that can be done about these people).

I would contend that 22lr is available. You can watch any number of apps or websites and then spend more time getting it in person or online. The other option is to pay high costs and save the time trouble. In my personal opinion this is the problem and rewards the "scalpers" and helps limit 22lr at a reasonable price. It's just a circle that different groups of people are blaming other groups and complaining doesn't change the reality.

[bruce drake]

Last night a guy posted on my local Indiana gun forum that he had eight (yes...8) 525 count Remington bulk boxes for only 8 cents per cartridge...he was even getting some feelers from other members until I told them to do the math. 525 shells at 8 cents each came to $42 per box. This guy acted like it wasn't a big deal because he said its cheaper than at the gunshows. I replied back but yes but it is DOUBLE what Gander Mountain is selling the same box at. I told him I'd gladly pay a little bit more for his time to get the box and reasonable gas. but doubling the cost is not how you treat a fellow shooter. And no, I have enough 22LR that I wasn't needing to pay his prices. I just do not want young shooters to be hosed over by a guy with no principles.

[101VooDoo]

Anyone who lived through the first 22lr/ammo/components/magazines drought after Obama was elected, and then didn't build up a stash when these items became available again at reasonable prices, wasn't paying attention.

Yes, I've got a good 'hoard'; and I'll have an even better one when prices and availability stabilize again. Not for resale, just insurance.

[Plate plinker]

Wondering why we don't see any foreign brands getting dumped on us.

[castalott]

Wait until the government adopts laws to tell us the maximum amount of ammunition we may have on hand.


It's been 20 years since the ever thoughtful Swiss addressed this problem. They were wanting to decide how much ammo was TOO much to store at home. The final decision was 20,000 rounds PER firearm. This is how I remember it anyway.....

[jcwit]

Anyone who lived through the first 22lr/ammo/components/magazines drought after Obama was elected, and then didn't build up a stash when these items became available again at reasonable prices, wasn't paying attention.

Yes, I've got a good 'hoard'; and I'll have an even better one when prices and availability stabilize again. Not for resale, just insurance.

So how bout those who were not old enough to buy ammo the 1st time around?

How bout the 4H groups & Scout camps that work on a yearly budget?

How bout those that just bought their 1st firearm.

With that said, I too have my own "hoard/stockpile", in excess of 30,000 rounds that was purchased long before anyone ever heard of Obama.

[starmac]

It's been 20 years since the ever thoughtful Swiss addressed this problem. They were wanting to decide how much ammo was TOO much to store at home. The final decision was 20,000 rounds PER firearm. This is how I remember it anyway.....

20 years ago, nobody had ever heard of Obama, in fact the name might not have even been invented yet. lol

[jcwit]

Wondering why we don't see any foreign brands getting dumped on us.

It is! Check out some LGS.

Tomlinson's has imported .22's. At least they did a few days ago.

Check here
http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BSS&Category_Code=32SK
http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BSS&Category_Code=32EW
http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BSS&Category_Code=32RW

http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=CategoryBody&c=APRAEL
http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=CategoryBody&c=APRARW

And I could go on and on, but of course this is quality ammo, not the ammo one see's at WalMart.

[imashooter2]

I didn't say just Walmart I said Walmart and every other place that had it for sale! How anyone can think that has a MINISCULE effect is hard to understand, it is the biggest reason for the so-called shortage. Plain and simple, the "shortage" is because of people buying it as fast as it hits the shelves and it's just unreasonable to think they are shooting all this ammo, it's hoarded away for whatever their reasoning be it legitimate or unfounded it's still the problem. What other reason is there? The manufacturers are producing it to max capacity so it's going somewhere and until everyone is satisfied that their hoard is big enough and they stop buying then the "shortage" will continue!

The USA shot all the .22 ammo produced before the shortage and that was before a million or so new shooters were added to the mix with a deluge of new 20-30 round magazine "tactical" rifles. How anyone doesn't realize that is hard to understand. It is just unreasonable to think that all except some miniscule portion of the ammo produced is not being shot.

[dragon813gt]

There is an article that has the numbers in it. And they are fairly conservative. It was something to the effect of if every firearm owner in the US bought one brick it would eat up one year of production. The hoarders/scalpers/gougers are not the issue. It's a simple supply problem.

The people buying to resell aren't taking the ammo out of the market. It's just being sold at a higher price point. When supply catches up they won't be able to sell at a higher price point. This is all very simple and people like to come up w/ all types of crazy ideas.

There is not enough to go around. That's the long and short of it.

[RogerDat]

I think there is plenty "to go around" but hardly anyone will walk past any supply that has had a scarcity. Don't matter if it is Johnny Carson making a joke about a toilet paper shortage triggering everyone deciding to pick up a "little extra" and creating a shortage or not being able to get .22 ammo or reloading supplies (still waiting on powder order from Lohmans after 9 weeks)

Once folks perceive it as a scarce item they tend purchase any time they see it, and are willing to pay more for it. Classic case is the gas shortage of the 70's. There was no shortage. After the fact refinery output was examined and it did not go down, miles driven did not go up BUT the gas that would normally have been at the gas station for people to purchase was stashed in gas cans or vehicle tanks. No one would pass up the opportunity to fill up. Normally the average auto tank was 1/2 full but when you take millions of cars and fill the other half of the tank the supply for sale dries up.

Does this sound like the ammo and reloading supplies situation of today?

Manufacturers make a years supply in a year, with some buffer supply in warehouses and wholesalers. Between Obama re-election surge in demand, followed by the Sandy Hook incident creating congressional activity causing a second super surge (never count on congress to not do something stupid in response to a big news story) the ammo or supplies you want to purchase have all been sucked out of the system. Leading to a scarcity at retail so now everyone snatches up anything they can get. Manufacturers will try to meet the demand but it is generally impractical to build the capacity to handle massive surges in demand so it won't really get better until people decide they have enough and drop out of the market.

If you want to blame something blame human nature. Not smart or stupid just is what it is. While ammo has a long shelf life I'm pretty sure some folks will need it to have a multi-generational shelf life for all of their personal inventory to get used up. Otherwise their grandkids are going to have something of a nasty disposal problem in a few decades.

[jcwit]

Well its very clear everyone has an opinion.

[fatelk]

You guys may be right about that, I do know. All I know is that I don't seem to see near as much .22 brass on the ground at the range as I used too, and I know of at least 2 guys personally that brag about having 100k rounds squirreled away, yet they still wait in line at Walmart at 5am to get more, like some weird psychological addiction.

i assume that these guys are on the extreme end of the spectrum, but if a few million of the "just in time" type (guys who would stop to buy a couple boxes of 50 on the way to the range) now have a couple bricks in the closet, that's bound to have an effect on supply too.

it is funny how these threads stretch for page after page, and so many of us seem to enjoy the debate. Human nature, I guess, to sit around and hash out stuff like this- topics from ammo availability to horses teeth. I can't complain since I contribute as much as anyone, but like a lot of you all I'be had enough .22 ammo for years to last a very long time for as much as I shoot. I don't have 30,000 rounds (that's impressive!), but I have more than enough to wait out the drought.

[oldred]

The USA shot all the .22 ammo produced before the shortage and that was before a million or so new shooters were added to the mix with a deluge of new 20-30 round magazine "tactical" rifles. How anyone doesn't realize that is hard to understand. It is just unreasonable to think that all except some miniscule portion of the ammo produced is not being shot.

Yes they did shoot it all but now the ammo manufacturers are producing a heck of a lot more of it than they were then, they were not running 24/7 like they are now, and still can't keep up! Come on now EVERYBODY and their brother and all of their uncles are trying to lay in a stash now, people who didn't buy a brick in a year before the panic have thousands of rounds stashed away and will still buy every round they can get their hands on! This so-called shortage is of our own doing and all those millions of rounds that are stashed away is where the problem is, thousands of people are now holding a stash that they did not before the panic and until this "get-it-while-you-still-can attitude subsides the shortage is going to continue!

[Plate plinker]

Horse teeth you have to float them from time to time.
Hoping these people start dumping ammo later when the realize they will never use it all.$$$

[Garyshome]

Hoarding ammo in an addiction just like drug use. I know I am addicted!

[shooterg]

Hoarding ammo and lead is a bad thing ? Is there a 12 step program for this ?

[MaryB]

I was down to 500 rounds of target ammo, and a partial 500 round box of hollow point I use for hunting. So the 1k rounds brought me back up to enough to finish this falls shooting season. Winter pretty much shuts down my shooting except for the occasional hunt. This area needs an indoor shooting range!

[dtknowles]

...........I know of at least 2 guys personally that brag about having 100k rounds squirreled away, yet they still wait in line at Walmart at 5am to get more, like some weird psychological addiction...........

This seems crazy to me, assuming the bought it all at Walmart in the last few years they each have about $4000 tied up in .22 LR ammo. Do they reload, how many primers do they have stashed?

Tim

[fatelk]

After I wrote that I realized it wasn't really accurate. The one guy I'm thinking of is an acquaintance who I think is a "prepper" and I got the feeling that the 100,000 number he was bragging about was a generalization/exaggeration, so who knows. He was proud of the fact that he had the Walmart/Bimart/Sportmans thing figured out. I'll generalize so he doesn't hate me if he happens to be on here and reads this. He's got a lot of lead too, so he says.

The other guy I've known for many years and believe him when he says "90,000 rounds in my closet". I doubt he knows what reloading is and rarely even shoots. I mentioned that we should meet at the range sometime, and he looked at me like I was crazy. I think it's an investment/end of the world thing for him. He also seems to really enjoy his "Walmart early- call family when they have some" routine. To each their own I guess.

[oldred]

I think it's a perceived value thing, same sort of impulse that would drive a collector of most any kind of otherwise junk to pay top dollar for something. The fellow I mentioned earlier that had been hoarding since the panic began definitely has in excess of 40,000 rounds consisting of about every brand except for the high priced target ammo, I know he has them because I have seen them! This guy probably had not shot a brick in the last year (that is even if he shot any at all!) but the fact that they were scarce instilled in him a perceived value so he was grabbing every one he could find, as he said and truely believes, "Obama has outlawed 'em and ya won't be able ta git any more"! :roll:


This guy can be multiplied thousands of times, maybe not all will have his delusional attitude, and you have millions of rounds sitting around waiting for,,,,,,,, well whatever it is that's going to happen! Most of us have a stash these days and I have no real way of knowing but I would bet that a lot of the folks even on this site have a lot more stored away than they did before the panic, that is if they could find them, and who can blame them? After all it seems like the prudent thing to do and when the situation becomes "everyman for himself" those who sit out get left out, it's as simple as that. As far as the suggestion that all this ammo has been shot up, that is a good question so has anyone noticed an increase of 22 RF activity at the ranges? That would be a good indicator, although I suppose all these folks could be blasting away in their back yards, but just from my limited observation just the opposite seems to be true. At our range there is a noticeable decline in 22 RF shooting but then that's just there, still some 22s are there just about every time but most folks seem much more conservative and less wasteful of what was once a plentiful and inexpensive ammo.

I personally have curtailed my RF shooting and so has most everyone else I know but then that certainly is not everyone so how about it, how many of you have noticed a big increase in 22 RF use at the ranges since the panic started that could account for where all this ammo is going? ? How about a decrease? Maybe about the same where you shoot? Like I said folks certainly could be shooting it in their back yards and other places they like to shoot but wouldn't the ranges be at least a good indicator?

[Blacksmith]

Wait until the government adopts laws to tell us the maximum amount of ammunition we may have on hand.

Peoples republic of Maryland limits powder for reloading to 5 lbs per person.

[starmac]

I will freely admit that I have more now than before Ohummer came along. I doubt I ever in my life until now had over 3 bricks at any one time. I also don't shoot all that much 22, but like to be able to when I want to, and my wife likes shooting it too. Even between the 2 of us, I have given away much more than we have shot between us, and suspect a few bricks will be given as presants again this christmas. I sure don't have as much as a lot of guys claim, but I now try to keep somewhere between 3 and 5 thousand rounds, which keeps me from paying the big bucks that some people ask for it.

[bruce drake]

I broke that law when I moved there in 01, five times over... Another reason why I'm happy I retired to the Midwest...


Peoples republic of Maryland limits powder for reloading to 5 lbs per person.

[Springfield]

I don't know about how much .22 people shoot at normal public ranges. I do know that this spring our CAS club once again participated in the Youth Shoot Extravaganza the Sporting Clays club puts on every year, where our CAS club is also located. The owner of the Sporting Clays usually supplied the .22 ammo for the 160 or so kids who come out to shoot with us, but this year he couldn't. So we all pitched in, and I saw LOTS of boxes of .22's that were over 10 years old. Everybody just emptied out their closets and cabinets so that the kids could shoot. A couple of guys, like myself, donated a brick. My kids shoot .22 in all the cas matches and I am fortunate enough to belong here and last year traded lead and leather and bullets and shotgun hulls for .22's, and felt it was only right to help out. 3 days ago I received a backorder notice from Midway, on something I ordered in January when they were still taking backorders. I now have some more .22's on the way, so my kids are good for another 2-3 months of matches. I am just hoping I can keep getting enough until they graduate to centerfire ammo. I still have 5 different brands of .22's on backorder, and this is the only one that has come up in the last 10 months, so the supply line is still pretty empty.

[dragon813gt]

There has been no difference in RF shooting at the ranges, there are multiple, that I belong to. The only change I've seen is practically no 40 shooting and an increase in 380. 223 has tapered off for a bit but once supply came back the range was full of it. I've picked up 20 gallons of it this summer and I haven't been stopping every day like I normally do.

[jcwit]

I hope this panic stops so I can star shooting again with my dad which only has so long to live! http://images.thehighroad.org/smilies/frown.gif




Tell you how others feel?

[btroj]

Well its very clear everyone has an opinion.


I not not only have an opinion, I hoard them. I will sell them for 199.99 each.

[bruce drake]

My home club is a 70 mil roundtrip for me but I try to get out at least twice a month. Most of the club members reload as the brass on the ground is pretty light for brass-hawks like myself. I consider it my duty to clean up the litter :) I even pick up the few 22LR brass that gets left behind. I don't do anything with the 22LR brass as I'm not set up to swage 22 bullets (I'd love to be but I can't afford the Corbin dies) so
it gets placed in the trash container properly. I think I might start collecting 22LR brass just to have a stockpile for when I finally do buy the swaging dies.

[Blacksmith]

My home club is a 70 mil roundtrip for me but I try to get out at least twice a month. Most of the club members reload as the brass on the ground is pretty light for brass-hawks like myself. I consider it my duty to clean up the litter :) I even pick up the few 22LR brass that gets left behind. I don't do anything with the 22LR brass as I'm not set up to swage 22 bullets (I'd love to be but I can't afford the Corbin dies) so
it gets placed in the trash container properly. I think I might start collecting 22LR brass just to have a stockpile for when I finally do buy the swaging dies.

Put the brass in a bucket until you have enough for a trip to the scrap yard, then trade it for lead.

[Artful]

Peoples republic of Maryland limits powder for reloading to 5 lbs per person.
so two person household is 10 pounds per - due children/minor's count?

[fatelk]

I not not only have an opinion, I hoard them. I will sell them for 199.99 each.

Gouger! Mine are only worth 2 cents, but since I'm generous I give them away all the time! :)

[dtknowles]

Put the brass in a bucket until you have enough for a trip to the scrap yard, then trade it for lead.

Yeah, why would anyone put brass in the trash container. My .22 rimfire brass goes in with my spent primers for recycling.

Tim

[RogerDat]

Well I can't stop looking for "good" lead despite having enough on hand for the foreseeable future. I figure I'll use it, swap it, or it will just be revenge for the kids not cleaning their rooms when they have to clean up all that lead after I'm gone.

I have always tended to purchased ammo in bulk or at least several boxes at a time to maintain an inventory on hand. Mostly so I have the luxury of buying when I see a good deal instead of having to pick it at higher prices or finding I'm short when I want to go shooting. I'm not being forced to purchase to purchase at the current crazy prices. On the other hand I'm not going to add to the problem of those that are trying to find ammo or reloading supplies by snatching it off the shelves when I don't need it just so I can gloat over a massive stash.

[Dale in Louisiana]

It is! Check out some LGS.

Tomlinson's has imported .22's. At least they did a few days ago.

Check here
http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BSS&Category_Code=32SK
http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BSS&Category_Code=32EW
http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BSS&Category_Code=32RW

http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=CategoryBody&c=APRAEL
http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=CategoryBody&c=APRARW

And I could go on and on, but of course this is quality ammo, not the ammo one see's at WalMart.

Eley and other premium match ammo has ALWAYS been available from Champions Choice and others catering to the match shooting communities, and it's always been pricey compared with the run of the mill Fed-Rem-Win-CCI fodder. From when I played with small-bore, I can tell you that the premium price has definite benefits if you want to keep holes in the X-ring.

dale in Louisiana

[9.3X62AL]

What Dale said, concerning QC and accuracy with the high-dollar import or target ammo. Now having a capable rimfire benchrest rifle on board, the difference such ammo makes is obvious and immediate. Such ammo upticks sporter rifle accuracy as well.

[dtknowles]

What Dale said, concerning QC and accuracy with the high-dollar import or target ammo. Now having a capable rimfire benchrest rifle on board, the difference such ammo makes is obvious and immediate. Such ammo upticks sporter rifle accuracy as well.

I am shooting Wolf Target Match ammo lately and am quite happy but how good should a rimfire benchrest rifle shoot? I don't mean to be highly competitive but to not end up at the very bottom of the standings.

Tim

[9.3X62AL]

Eley Tenex has shot into the low .4s consistently in my Kimber 82G/custom-barreled assembly/6x-18x Leup at 50 yards. Same ammo in a well-used Rem 581/mid-quality 3x-9x stays in the low .6s at the same range/ammo. CCI Mini-Mags have done high .7s to low .8s in this RemRifle, which is my hunting load and formerly single-best ammo in the combo. I know just enough about rimfire BR to be dangerous, and have no idea what a good 22 BR rifle and glass is capable of. I do know this Kimber critter is the most accurate rimfire rifle I've ever run--at 75 yards with the CCI/MM, groups stay in the mid-.7s. Now that I'm out of the desert and in the San Diego area, I might try an indoor range to REALLY sort the Kimber out.

[dtknowles]

Eley Tenex has shot into the low .4s consistently in my Kimber 82G/custom-barreled assembly/6x-18x Leup at 50 yards. Same ammo in a well-used Rem 581/mid-quality 3x-9x stays in the low .6s at the same range/ammo. CCI Mini-Mags have done high .7s to low .8s in this RemRifle, which is my hunting load and formerly single-best ammo in the combo. I know just enough about rimfire BR to be dangerous, and have no idea what a good 22 BR rifle and glass is capable of. I do know this Kimber critter is the most accurate rimfire rifle I've ever run--at 75 yards with the CCI/MM, groups stay in the mid-.7s. Now that I'm out of the desert and in the San Diego area, I might try an indoor range to REALLY sort the Kimber out.

Is that 5 or 10 shot groups. I am shooting a Savage/Anschutz Mark 10 with that Wolf Ammo. I am sure I am not competitive, I will see if I an round up old targets to post group info. They will be 10 shots at 100 yards.


Tim

[9.3X62AL]

Most of those groups with both rifles and all ammo types are 5-shotters, but many multiples of those groups (10+ of each) to obtain valid info. I have fired a few 10-shotters, though--at least 2 of the groups from the Kimber using the CCI/Mini Mags were of that sort. These also stayed within that ".7 inch @ 75 yards" standard set by the 5 shot groups over several range trips.

Good ammo provides few surprises. Match-grade rimfire ammo and all CCI rimfire ammo is first-rate material. That has been my experience, anyway.

[David2011]

I find it interesting how the price and availability of 22lr ammo always seems to turn into an ethics discussion on this forum.....dale

I know hoarders that have more .22 LR ammo than they will be able to shoot in their remaining time on Earth. They don't resell and they are at least shooters. They are part of the problem but not as bad IMO as the resellers. My biggest beef is with the resellers. They buy everything they can get their hands on and in the process create the shortage so they can offer the goods at inflated prices. IMO, this is the same level of ethics as if gasoline refiners chose to cut the supply in half and jack up the price. In both instances an artificial shortage is created by withholding goods from the normal supply chain and the price inflated by the entity holding the goods.

Just my opinion. . .

David

[Bad Water Bill]

I know hoarders that have more .22 LR ammo than they will be able to shoot in their remaining time on Earth. They don't resell and they are at least shooters. They are part of the problem but not as bad IMO as the resellers. My biggest beef is with the resellers. They buy everything they can get their hands on and in the process create the shortage so they can offer the goods at inflated prices. IMO, this is the same level of ethics as if gasoline refiners chose to cut the supply in half and jack up the price. In both instances an artificial shortage is created by withholding goods from the normal supply chain and the price inflated by the entity holding the goods.

Just my opinion. . .

David

No one has a GUARANTEE on their lifetime therefor by your post many here are hoarders.

Since I have been casting and reloading for about 50 years and purchasing just a little more than I REALLY needed I will now be considered a hoarder simply because I am 78 and have only X years left.

No I am NOT a hoarder just a simple OLD man that added just a bit more than I really needed for over 1/2 a century of skimping and saving and now can enjoy the results of planning for my future.

I am sure I am not the only member here that has done the same thing.

PS

My mom made it to age 95 still taking care of a large house and doing all of the cooking and dishes.

Who has the right to call me or other members that have done the same thing "HOARDERS"?

[starmac]

I doubt if many of the ones reselling it at inflated prices can help cause a shortage. I would most of them have to sell it pretty much as fast as they get it. Some that are shooters may be using the profits to hoard some for their own use, or for a rainy day.

[oldred]

I doubt if many of the ones reselling it at inflated prices can help cause a shortage. I would most of them have to sell it pretty much as fast as they get it. Some that are shooters may be using the profits to hoard some for their own use, or for a rainy day.


That's what I was thinking also, the resellers aren't hoarding it up and keep very little on hand, if they weren't selling it there would be no point in doing what they are doing! The bottom line is it's whoever is ultimately buying it and keeping it not who walks out of the store with it, because the only difference between what was sold at the store or by a reseller is the price and it still winds up in someones stash so the reseller was just another middle man on it's route to the hoarder. It makes no difference if a person buys it at the sporting goods counter or meets the reseller in the store parking lot (as I have seen happen at Walmart with the buy limits) it's still in someones stash!


Of course the resellers affect the shooter FAR more than the hoarder because very few people are buying from a reseller at their prices in order to build a stash, most of what is sold by resellers is to folks who are out and need some ammo to shoot!

[dragon813gt]

Resellers are not taking ammo out of the supply chain. They are not causing a shortage in anyway. You may not like them because you don't want to pay what they are charging. But they aren't taking ammo out of the supply chain to drive up costs. I agree w/ the statement that "a hoarder is someone who has more than me and a gouger is someone who is charging more than I want to pay." I should clarify and I say that I don't believe that statement. But I do believe that's what most firearm owners think. The shortages have shown how hypocritical, selfish and socialistic a large majority of firearm owners are.

[imashooter2]

There aren't enough "hoarders" to have meaningful effect. There is just supply and demand.

[6bg6ga]

There aren't enough "hoarders" to have meaningful effect. There is just supply and demand.

I've heard conversations in which hoarders are bragging about having 10K and more 22cal ammunition. No one needs this much. No hoarders? I don't buy that at all. There are hoarders and they do take their toll on the supply. In addition there are new gun owners that are anxious to stock up. If everyone just purchased what they needed there wouldn't be a problem.

[9.3X62AL]

The sitch is a Perfect Storm of increased demand for a commodity that has never been stocked or supplied in any great depth, and the human responses to that decreased availability. To expect supplies to "normalize" under the prevailing conditions seen today is like expecting table manners from starving Eritreans.

[dragon813gt]

I've heard conversations in which hoarders are bragging about having 10K and more 22cal ammunition. No one needs this much. No hoarders? I don't buy that at all. There are hoarders and they do take their toll on the supply. In addition there are new gun owners that are anxious to stock up. If everyone just purchased what they needed there wouldn't be a problem.

You make it seem like 10k is a lot of ammo? Stop w/ your socialistic view of if they purchase just what is needed. I've never posted my 22lr count for a reason. I've been buying in case lots for years. It's easy to shoot up 5k a month. This is a small amount in my eyes. You can harp on the hoarders all you want. The numbers were released. It's one years production if every gun owner bought one brick a year. If I buy what I need then a lot of other people won't be getting any. Why do so many people fail to grasp simple supply and demand?

[imashooter2]

I've heard conversations in which hoarders are bragging about having 10K and more 22cal ammunition. No one needs this much. No hoarders? I don't buy that at all. There are hoarders and they do take their toll on the supply. In addition there are new gun owners that are anxious to stock up. If everyone just purchased what they needed there wouldn't be a problem.

I have more than 10K on the shelf. I put it there after witnessing previous periods of difficult procurement. I'm a shooter that likes to shoot, has a couple bucks in my pocket and the good sense to put stores on the shelf that allow me to continue to shoot through good times and bad. As I shoot up my stash, I replace it when I find a good deal. The buffer allows me to shoot what I want, when I want. You call me hoarder. I call myself prudent. I call those not in my position imprudent.

A hoarder would have to be someone that doesn't intend to shoot what they buy. And I still maintain that there aren't enough of them to have meaningful impact.

[marvelshooter]

You make it seem like 10k is a lot of ammo? Stop w/ your socialistic view of if they purchase just what is needed. I've never posted my 22lr count for a reason. I've been buying in case lots for years.
Most bullseye shooters buy .22's by the case. If you could get one to truthfully tell how much he has in his stash the number might surprise you.

[6bg6ga]

You make it seem like 10k is a lot of ammo? Stop w/ your socialistic view of if they purchase just what is needed. I've never posted my 22lr count for a reason. I've been buying in case lots for years. It's easy to shoot up 5k a month. This is a small amount in my eyes. You can harp on the hoarders all you want. The numbers were released. It's one years production if every gun owner bought one brick a year. If I buy what I need then a lot of other people won't be getting any. Why do so many people fail to grasp simple supply and demand?

Do you shoot for example 10K rounds of 22 ammunition a year? I don't think so..... if not your just another hoarder.

[btroj]

I have over 5K rounds of 22 on hand now and I haven't shot any in well over 5 years.

Call me a hoarder if it makes you happy, I just consider myself prepared.

Maybe we are seeing a trend towards a demand for "Ammo redistribution" and "ammo equality". Maybe someone needs to get Barack involved.

[dragon813gt]

Do you shoot for example 10K rounds of 22 ammunition a year? I don't think so..... if not your just another hoarder.

Did you read what I wrote? I will shoot up 5k A MONTH. 1.5k a week average in warmer months. Do you know that hoarding is a medical condition? It's not when someone has more of something you want. I'm assuming you vote Democrat since you have a strong socialistic view of how goods are supposed to be rationed so you can "get yours".

[imashooter2]

Do you shoot for example 10K rounds of 22 ammunition a year? I don't think so..... if not your just another hoarder.

I shoot perhaps 5K a year. 2+ years supply gives me a buffer to allow me to continue to shoot as I want when I want and resupply as able.

You, on the other hand, don't get to shoot because you are imprudent. A shame that could have been so easily rectified...

[6bg6ga]

Did you read what I wrote? I will shoot up 5k A MONTH. 1.5k a week average in warmer months. Do you know that hoarding is a medical condition? It's not when someone has more of something you want. I'm assuming you vote Democrat since you have a strong socialistic view of how goods are supposed to be rationed so you can "get yours".

I won't vote democratic then again I don't hoard 22 ammo either

[6bg6ga]

I shoot perhaps 5K a year. 2+ years supply gives me a buffer to allow me to continue to shoot as I want when I want and resupply as able.

You, on the other hand, don't get to shoot because you are imprudent. A shame that could have been so easily rectified...

I'm hoarding 400 rounds. I had 100 rounds on hand and then stockpiled another 300 from Walmart. I find it cheaper to reload and shoot 9mm,38,357, 45acp, and 45LC than 22LR.

[dragon813gt]

I won't vote democratic then again I don't hoard 22 ammo either

I know you're baiting me. Explain to me how I'm hoarding ammo? You say only have what you "need". Do you hunt as a means to feed your family? If no, then you don't "need" any rifles or shotguns. Do you carry to protect your family? If no, then you don't need a pistol/revolver. So by your logic you could very well need no ammo or firearms. This is the slope of logic you start going down when "need" is brought into the discussion. Who determines the "need". Keep preaching freedom when you're a socialist.

[castalott]

A true little story from WW2. In 1942 a man needed 30-06 shells to deer hunt and the shelves were empty because when the war started everyone bought everything available and then all production went to the military. He finally offered $1 for every round! That could have been a days wages in that time. ( Would you offer a days wages for one round of something today?)

Still no takers even at that price. A war widow learned of his plight and sent him 3 rounds from her husbands sock drawer. He shot his rifle once in 42, once in 43, and once in 44. He also had 3 deer to eat.

How does this fit into our discussion?

[6bg6ga]

I know you're baiting me. Explain to me how I'm hoarding ammo? You say only have what you "need". Do you hunt as a means to feed your family? If no, then you don't "need" any rifles or shotguns. Do you carry to protect your family? If no, then you don't need a pistol/revolver. So by your logic you could very well need no ammo or firearms. This is the slope of logic you start going down when "need" is brought into the discussion. Who determines the "need". Keep preaching freedom when you're a socialist.


No, not baiting you. I don't hunt unless you count hunting a package of hamburger at the grocery store. Sorry, don't see a need to maintain 5K or 10K or in some cases 20 or 30K of 22LR ammunition when there are people out there that would like to occasionally shoot up a box of 50 at the range. Yes, I carry. Yes, I carry a number of different pistols depending on where I am going.

I'm thinking that if shooters were to try to share there might be more ammunition to go around so that all can shoot and play.

[SteveS]

Resellers are not taking ammo out of the supply chain. They are not causing a shortage in anyway.

Well, in a way they are. If they and their friends, family and neighbors, go into a retail location and clean them out, the remaining customers have nothing to buy.

Not everyone knows where the scalper is selling the ammo.

I appreciate the retailers that limit purchase amounts. Some even refuse to sell to known scalpers. I will do my business with them. It's just a personal choice.

[owejia]

Makes no never mind to me, my local wally world still never has any when I'm there.

[btroj]

No, not baiting you. I don't hunt unless you count hunting a package of hamburger at the grocery store. Sorry, don't see a need to maintain 5K or 10K or in some cases 20 or 30K of 22LR ammunition when there are people out there that would like to occasionally shoot up a box of 50 at the range. Yes, I carry. Yes, I carry a number of different pistols depending on where I am going.

I'm thinking that if shooters were to try to share there might be more ammunition to go around so that all can shoot and play.

So we have an obligation to provide for the collective good?

Maybe if I gave some of my money to others they could have nicer things too.

[375supermag]

Hi...

Just an update on local .22lr availability.

On Friday after work, i stopped at a LGS and they had CCI Std vel. 22lr at $34.99/500. There were at least 10-12 bricks on the shelf and at least 20 100rd plastic boxes at $7.49 each, as well. I have several thousand rounds still on hand, so I did not buy any. No limit was posted.

On Saturday, after work another LGS had 50rd boxes on sale at $2.49 each (I don't remember who the manufacturer was). It was plated HP. They did have a 200 round limit per customer per day.

Again, I still have several thousand rounds on hand, so I didn't buy any.

I did encourage my son to buy some, but he declined...something about shooting mine first or words to that effect.

I did buy a couple of boxes of Winchester 12ga #6 sho 2-3/4" shot shells for the upcoming small game seasons. $16.99 per box of 25. They had Remington and Federal on the shelf as well.

I see no difference on squirrels and pheasants between the brands, so I bought Winchester since they were a buck cheaper per box. I have used all three brands in the past with excellent results...good patterns and sufficient penetration to get the job done.

[2wheelDuke]

I've heard conversations in which hoarders are bragging about having 10K and more 22cal ammunition. No one needs this much. No hoarders? I don't buy that at all. There are hoarders and they do take their toll on the supply. In addition there are new gun owners that are anxious to stock up. If everyone just purchased what they needed there wouldn't be a problem.

Watch your words there. "No one needs _____" sounds like something from Hillary Clinton's campaign speeches. It's not uncommon for a competition shooter to buy a couple cases of match ammo at a time so that it's all from the same lot for consistency. And I'm sure they'd consider that more of a need than a want, as seriously as competitions can be taken.

[jcwit]

So we have an obligation to provide for the collective good?

Maybe if I gave some of my money to others they could have nicer things too.

Likely "NO" as far as an obligation.

But remember the 11 commandment! Which may not apply to you?

[jcwit]

Watch your words there. "No one needs _____" sounds like something from Hillary Clinton's campaign speeches. It's not uncommon for a competition shooter to buy a couple cases of match ammo at a time so that it's all from the same lot for consistency. And I'm sure they'd consider that more of a need than a want, as seriously as competitions can be taken.

Match ammo has yet to be effected or in short supply, nor has it gone up in price to any extent.

[wyrmzr]

In the last week, I've bought two 525 round boxes of .22LR at the local Farm Fleet store. One box a week ago, the entire shipment never hit the shelf, and one box off the shelf two days ago. The one two days ago had plenty of company on the shelf (one more 525 round box, and at least 3-4 boxes of 333). If what I'm hearing locally is correct, the shortage could become a surplus before long.

[dtknowles]

You make it seem like 10k is a lot of ammo? Stop w/ your socialistic view of if they purchase just what is needed. I've never posted my 22lr count for a reason. I've been buying in case lots for years. It's easy to shoot up 5k a month. This is a small amount in my eyes. You can harp on the hoarders all you want. The numbers were released. It's one years production if every gun owner bought one brick a year. If I buy what I need then a lot of other people won't be getting any. Why do so many people fail to grasp simple supply and demand?

If you shoot 5K a month and you get it for as little as 5 cents a round that is $250 a month for .22 lr ammo. That is not in many peoples shooting budget. If you are a competive shooter then you are probably paying even more than 5 cents a round.

Tim

[dtknowles]

So we have an obligation to provide for the collective good?

Maybe if I gave some of my money to others they could have nicer things too.


I don't see it as an obligation or even a civic duty. The government needs not to get involved. Each person should act as his conscience allows.

I have yet to give away any .22 LR ammo and I have had been gifted some at the range but not because I did not have ammo but because I did not have any with me.

I do give away money to others so they can have nicer things too. I don't feel it as an obligation, I do it because I want to. I am sure you do the same.

I don't know how much .22 rimfire ammo I have on my shelf, probably between 5k and 10k I probably have 20 different loads/brands. I rarely buy case lots. I don't like having too much stuff around. I stock pile a little for emergencies, essentials like water, food, medical supplies, ammo but I keep it reasonable. For just shooting, I did get sucked in to stock piling powder and primers. I am sad I over did it. I wonder how much treads like this contributed to people overbuying ammo.

Tim

[starmac]

If you have enough powder and primers that it is making you sad, at least in this area lots of folks would be glad to make you happy again. lol
As far as 22 goes, I have given away far more than I have shot. I have enough for my needs, but would buy more today if the price was right, christmas is coming up. lol

We are probably about the end of the chain as far as ammo and components goes, and lots of folks live where it isn't possible to check the stores often, so it is basically impossible for them to get what they need (actually need) when it is not available when they do get to town.

I have probably all the powder I need, maybe even for the rest of my days, but still will pickup my limit on certain powders that other people needs when it is available, even to the point that I have had my wife go get her limit too. It isn't like it will go to waste.

[Gator 45/70]

Read on another forum were a ingenious gentlemen was glueing 22 cal pellets on top of a nail gun blank and running these in his bolt gun, I guess it can be done if one is really in need.

[btroj]

Maybe the blame should placed on the gun makers who keep pumping out new firearms for ammo that isn't in stock.

Maybe we could get a law that requires all 22 LR firearms bought in the last 3 years to be turned in so the rest of us can shoot.

Why not? It would eliminate the market for gougers and stick the new hoarders with ammo and no gun.

Oh yeah, we can't do that because it goes against the very foundations of this nation. Silly me.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm not keen on ANY sort of artificial supply restrictions, esp. .gov-instituted measures. Hoarders/strippers/flippers are a necessary evil in a free market capitalistic economy, I suppose--a human nature reaction to already-restricted supply situations. The H/S/F elements do their share of damage to the supply stream, and likely prolong and exacerbate the effects of these shortages. But artificial "corrections" to the H/S/F operators cause MUCH MORE harm to our economic model over the long term, as irritating as these greedheads and their courses of conduct can be.

If something said herein causes you grief or upset.......too damn bad. If someone adopts an irritating, greed-inspired lifestyle choice--I recommend the development of a thicker skin. My counter-measure is a good memory for the shortage exploiters with their $100 bricks of SV 22 LR (mass-market stuff, not target grade) and a PROMISE to NEVER spend another dime at their stores.

[btroj]

Yep, vote with your wallet. As long as a market has customers paying the price it will continue to exist.

[starmac]

At the gun show today, there was lots of ammo of every cal imaginable, but I only saw 2 tables that had any 22 ammo. Bricks (win) on one he was asking 50 bucks for and some 50 round boxes on another. I didn't notice anyone jumping on them either.

I did notice one enterprizing vender had certified breeding pairs of lr and shorts both, all nicely mounted on a board. A steal of a deal at only 6 bucks a pair. I started to get a pair of the shorts, but decided I would probably wind up with so many that folks would call me a hoarder.

[Bad Water Bill]

For $6.00 a pair of certified breeding pairs of lr and shorts I would have picked up a set for the chuckle value only.

Did the seller state just what the gestation period was or how many to each litter?

[6bg6ga]

At the gun show today, there was lots of ammo of every cal imaginable, but I only saw 2 tables that had any 22 ammo. Bricks (win) on one he was asking 50 bucks for and some 50 round boxes on another. I didn't notice anyone jumping on them either.

I did notice one enterprizing vender had certified breeding pairs of lr and shorts both, all nicely mounted on a board. A steal of a deal at only 6 bucks a pair. I started to get a pair of the shorts, but decided I would probably wind up with so many that folks would call me a hoarder.

Hopefully those greedy gun dealers will get stuck with some expensive ammo when and if the price goes down.

Gestation period is 2 weeks and they usually have 12-14 in each litter.

[Bad Water Bill]

Gestation period is 2 weeks and they usually have 12-14 in each litter.

And how long till they reach maturity and can be put to work as they were originally meant to?[smilie=w:[smilie=w:[smilie=w:

[starmac]

All questions I have no answer to Bill. I have raised a lot of different critters, but never any 22 ammo. lol I did get a good laugh out of it. Our local lgs has had for many months had a single 22lr round on the shelf, with a price sticker wrapped around it. It is marked 15.99. lol It has got a lot of laughs too.

[MaryB]

My gun dealer will not sell 22lr to strangers unless he has a huge surplus. Otherwise he has been holding it back for customers with no ammo on hand. Hr even tells regulars that nope, you bought a box 2 days ago, back of the line and wait your turn again. He also has not raised prices more than $3 on a brick and most of that increase came from the manufacturers/middle man

[6bg6ga]

And how long till they reach maturity and can be put to work as they were originally meant to?[smilie=w:[smilie=w:[smilie=w:


Usually its 6 weeks before they can leave their mother and their ready to do their work at their rated speed at 3 months. Trying to use them before that will result in reduced speed and accuracy.:mrgreen:

[Blacksmith]

I still have several thousand rounds of .22 on hand and more on back order. I feel no obligation to other shooters for "the greater Good" because when I bought mine there was plenty available and any shooter was free to commit his money and do the same. If they did not plan ahead or had other priorities that was their choice and they will have to live with the choices they made. As far as having more on back order I hope to receive it before I shoot up what I have on hand, planning ahead, I placed that order over 16 months ago when most people were saying the shortage will be over soon. I think we will be several more years before we return to normal if we ever do so I should get some more on order for when the haven't gotten it yet ammo eventually runs out.

[fatelk]

To make it fair, I think we all need to pool all our .22 ammo and split it up evenly. It's just not fair for some of you guys to have all your thousands of round while I have none.

[oldred]

Well I just returned from the WalMart in Lafollette tn where my wife and I stopped by on the way home from visiting her parents, they have LOTS of 22 lr on hand! They have CCI, the black boxes, in 100 rd and Remington in 50 round boxes with a 3 box limit for either. They had just gotten them in and they were behind the counter in a shopping cart, dozens of boxes and if anyone happens to be near there they could almost certainly find some for sale today. I jokingly asked the clerk "where are all the vultures" and he just laughed and said they don't come around anymore because they can't make any money on them now. I struck up a short conversation and he told me about what I suspected already, it has lightened up substantially and he told me that what I was looking at there now would last several days whereas only a few months ago it would have disappeared in minutes. He said they had not had people waiting in line for a long time now although it still sells out fairly quickly, he also told me they don't know when it's coming in as it doesn't come in on any one particular day and shipments are sporadic nor is 22 rf in every shipment so it's hit-n-miss as to when it arrives. We discussed the scalpers and he said they pretty much quit coming around a "good while ago" as he put it since there was a limit on how much they could buy and the high priced ammo market has about dried up, they won't buy it if folks won't pay the price and it has about reached that point apparently.

It really does look as if it's getting better but we still have a long way to go before we see "normal" again if we ever see it, still this is encouraging and I just might start shooting my 22s more!

[pretzelxx]

I almost regret buying a 22 pistol before checking out the ammo price. I paid $33 for a brick of 550. The wife enjoyed it once thus far, and ive had it for two years now. 5 years or so and the unborn daughter might enjoy some shooting! Glad to see in some areas the ammo is back, i may stock up a bit and shoot it for myself!

[fatelk]

The floodgates should be opening soon now, right? With the tide change on the political front, the preppers and hoarders should be letting up, the scalpers and gougers should be giving up, the shelves will be fully stocked with cheap ammo, and the flappers, slappers, and clappers will be dancing in the streets!

[shdwlkr]

fatelk
and the nation will be all kind and loving to everyone and every nation
Better check what your drinking it might just be bad for your health

[fatelk]

Sorry, maybe I should have used purple font. I'm not drinking anything, just happened across this old thread and thought I'd add some humor.

[monadnock#5]

I got a notice from Midway today requesting that I supply a password for my backorder, implying that a case of CCI Minimags would soon be on the way.

I didn't give them a new password, but I did change my main account password to the 4 letter with 1 capitalized, 4 number with a symbol or two format that all online retailers feel they need for security.

If the case of Minimags comes through, I'll give a shout. Perhaps more importantly, if you're still using an old, outdated password for an account with a credit card on file, change it to the new style and give a hacker heartburn. This was a good thing for Larry to do, whether I get the ammo or not.

[Blacksmith]

I finally received the case I ordered in June of 2013. I have not run out and I hope this case will last me until I get my next delivery. When that order was one year old I ordered some more. So my second order is about five months old now.

You need to plan ahead.

[9.3X62AL]

I finally received the case I ordered in June of 2013. I have not run out and I hope this case will last me until I get my next delivery. When that order was one year old I ordered some more. So my second order is about five months old now.

You need to plan ahead.

This text alone succinctly describes the sorry, broke-down, paltry extent of the supply chain that serves our hobby field.

[MtGun44]

Just asked at a local Walmart - no .22s in stock. Did a price check for the
heck of it. 225 pack is $11.47, 100 rds is $8. So, that is five cents a
shot for the 225 pack, and 8 cents a shot for the 100 rd pack - didn't
ask what brands.

5 cents is pretty good, but 8 cents still doesn't impress me very much.

Of course, these are entirely theoretical since they don't have any
in stock.

Most places that have ammo (step one in the recovery, some places
DO have it) still want $50 to 75 for a brick of 500. At 10 to 15 cents
a shot, I am just not going to go away from my handloaded, cast
boolits centerfire. I can do it a good bit cheaper than that.

Bill

[NewbieDave007]

The 100 is most likely a minimag (CCI) and the 225 is most likely the Remington Gold, so in my opinion they are two different levels.

Good luck.
Dave

[waltherboy4040]

I just paid $8 for cci standard velocity, 100 rounds

[9.3X62AL]

I was giving $6.25-$7.00 per 100 pack for CCI Mini-Mag before the drought ensued, and didn't mind paying that amount. CCI ammo is GOOD STUFF, and all of its derivatives--including the Blazer--run very well in my Balk-O-Matics (Win 290, SIG Mosquito). CCI SV is REAL GOOD STUFF, and $8/100 wouldn't be outta line to me.

[cbrick]

Local Wal-Mart today had Winchester 22 sub sonic, 3 box limit at $4.95 a box of 50. I left them there, so did the guy in front of me and the guy behind me. Girl at the counter said that there was no line waiting for them when they came in this morning.

Rick

[Iowa Fox]

Just asked at a local Walmart - no .22s in stock. Did a price check for the
heck of it. 225 pack is $11.47, 100 rds is $8. So, that is five cents a
shot for the 225 pack, and 8 cents a shot for the 100 rd pack - didn't
ask what brands.

5 cents is pretty good, but 8 cents still doesn't impress me very much.

Of course, these are entirely theoretical since they don't have any
in stock.

Most places that have ammo (step one in the recovery, some places
DO have it) still want $50 to 75 for a brick of 500. At 10 to 15 cents
a shot, I am just not going to go away from my handloaded, cast
boolits centerfire. I can do it a good bit cheaper than that.

Bill

I'm with you Bill on our own centerfire with cast. Sure I miss the volume of my 10/22's, Smith Mod 41 and the other nice shooting 22 rim fires I have. But until the supply of reasonably price rimfire comes back I'm happy pouring the silver stream, pulling the handle on the Star sizer, the Dillon loaders, the Marlin 357c, the 1911, and all the Contenders & Encores from 22 Hornet to the 45/70.

[9.3X62AL]

What Iowa Fox said. That has been me for several years, though things got somewhat reasonable along about 2011 and a part of 2012. Got my fingers crossed that conditions improve for all of us, the indicia that line-ups for 22 LR are disappearing might be the first step in that direction.

[oldred]

Maybe now with the politics swinging in our direction, I am still in shock that the mid-term elections actually turned out the way I had hoped it would! Since seeing the availability of RF 22s improving I have dusted off my beloved Colt New Frontier and have been defending the homestead against an invasion of hostile tin cans, now I am thinking again about trying to locate that 4" Colt Match Target I have been dreaming about!

Heck I might even settle for a plain ol' Colt Woodsman! :mrgreen:

[monmouth]

I forgot what a brick of .22LR looks like it's been so long. I can't believe Walmart carries ammo, unheard of here........ In NJ

[oldred]

Did anyone else see Widener's E-Blast Email ad listing Federal AutoMatch bulk packs of 22 LR? They actually had, key word here is "had", 325 round boxes for $24.95 but they sold out in just a few minutes. While selling out so quickly is not good just the fact they actually had some to advertise is good, very good! If they are listing them in their ads, no matter how quickly they sell out, it would appear that back-orders must be filled and maybe this is another indication that things are letting up somewhat. I know we still have a long way to go but at least there are some encouraging signs these days.

https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001466&dir=

[MtGun44]

Ammo? Heck, they sell handguns, shotguns and rifles, too. :bigsmyl2:

Don't know how you can take NJ. I shake my head every time I am forced to
visit.

Bill

[starmac]

All of the wallmarts in Alaska sells handguns, but I have never seen them anywhere else. There for a while a lot of them quit selling firearms and ammo of any kind in some places.

[dragon813gt]

They don't sell handguns here. And not every store sells firearms. I find it odd that the more rural store by me doesn't sell them. But the two that are in urban cesspools do. Still can't figure out why the store by me doesn't ever sell 308 ammo. Not even tags on the shelf for it.

[MaryB]

I may be able to save $20 on a gun at Walmart over my local gun store but I will pay the extra for having an experienced gunsmith available to tweak for me for free with no shipping needed. He goes through every gun he sells, uses get test fired, new he checks for function and they all get cleaned and oiled so they are ready to shoot out of the box.

[starmac]

MaryB, buying local used to be the American way. The American way has changed, be it firearmsgarden produce or lawnmowers, to keep up with the times buy from wallmart, throw away what isn't right (or sell it on ebay) and watch the local businesses dry up. lol Take a lawnmower back to wallmart because the carb floods and see what you get. lol

[MaryB]

I buy local as much as possible, can and preserve in fall so I have it all winter. Meat comes from local farmers who sell direct to the consumer or what I can hunt or fish.

[9.3X62AL]

I dislike Wal Mart intensely. If I have been inside a WM 10 times in my life, such a count would surprise me. I'm not real fond of Home Depot, either. I try to spend my money at locally-owned businesses whenever possible, and don't mind a small up-charge for staying local. A few places in my old town (Ridgecrest) were rather predatory owing to their remote locale, but by shopping around you could usually bypass the buccaneers. A $500 price difference on a set of Jeep tires seemed a little ridiculous to me. Same make/model. I may have been been born at night, but it wasn't LAST NIGHT.

[cbrick]

I may have been been born at night, but it wasn't LAST NIGHT.

Hhmmm . . . Tonight then? [smilie=1:

Ok, I couldn't resist. :mrgreen:

Rick

[Bad Water Bill]

It had to be in the dead of night or they would have seen him and thrown him out with the dish water.:bigsmyl2:

Yup Girty made me say that.[smilie=s:

[TXGunNut]

I forgot what a brick of .22LR looks like it's been so long. I can't believe Walmart carries ammo, unheard of here........ In NJ

I've heard some even carry reloading supplies.

[starmac]

I've heard some even carry reloading supplies.

I know some do, and it must be a manager thing. The reason I say that is we really only have 2 places that do carry any components or anything to do with reloading and no option of ordering ammo, powder or primers from the lower 48. Wallmart here jumped in on the handgun market from day one, but nothing reloading related for whatever reason.

I think one of the reasons is wallmart purchacing practices. I was talking to the manager one day, about why they seldom ever got any 22 ammo in and when they did in such little amounts, and he said sportsmans was able to get 10 times or more than they could. All ammo was very slow to come back to wallmart here after the worst of the shortage, for the same reason.

[dagger dog]

Bought my first box of 22's Saturday, since the "shortage", Dick's had CCI MiniMags 100 box @ $ 9.99 limit 1 per.

[Elkins45]

I've heard some even carry reloading supplies.

The one in Dry Ridge KY does, but it's the only one in central/northern KY I have seen that does. But I haven't been in all of them either.

[Garyshome]

Picked up 999 at walmart last week for like $54.00

[beemer]

Walmart in Taylorsville, NC sells reloading supplies. They have RCBS tools, bullets, primers and powder sometimes. Supplies are hit and miss around here, specially powder.

Dave

[9.3X62AL]

Bought my first box of 22's Saturday, since the "shortage", Dick's had CCI MiniMags 100 box @ $ 9.99 limit 1 per.

This is on final approach to "reasonable". CCI MM is a cut above bulk-pack 22 LR ammo.

[rockrat]

I go to Wal-mart for alot of things. Mainly groceries. Prices are usually 20-30% less than the local stores and at times hardware and some other stuff is half what local stores charge. I don't mind paying a bit more to keep it local, but not twice the amount. If I can get stuff on sale elsewhere, close to or cheaper than wally world, I will make every effort to go there. If prices are close, then I stay away from WM

[oldred]

I go to Wal-mart for alot of things. Mainly groceries. Prices are usually 20-30% less than the local stores and at times hardware and some other stuff is half what local stores charge. I don't mind paying a bit more to keep it local, but not twice the amount. If I can get stuff on sale elsewhere, close to or cheaper than wally world, I will make every effort to go there. If prices are close, then I stay away from WM


I applaud those who are willing to spend a bit more to support smaller local vendors but in the end it's just a wasted gesture, things change for better or worse and marketing methods are going to change with it in spite of what we may want to see. The days of the small independent merchant are pretty much numbered, I'm not saying this is a good thing just inevitable, because big box stores and online shopping are the future whether we like it or not!


Personally I REALLY miss the days of the old "down town" shopping in the small towns where merchants of every kind lined the streets and there were no big box stores but those days are gone just like a lot of other things and we might as well get used to it! Of course IF everyone stayed out of the big stores and we all patronized the independent merchant none of this would be true but the fact is it just ain't gonna happen and folks are going to shop where they get the best deals, most are going to do so out of necessity, so we might as well accept it and "roll with the flow". :(

[Beagle333]

MidSouth has it in stock today..... Norma brand..... $5.40 a box.

[dtknowles]

What are people talking about when they say Independent Merchant? I have never seen a grocery or hardware store that was not a chain store. There used to be some independent general stores when I was growing up (they were all small, like a convenience store) and there still are some now but never a full size hardware or grocery store. Even the drug stores and 5 and dimes were all chains.

Tim

[oldred]

That's just the point there are hardly any left anymore! There are a few in this area that are still independently owned and not part of a franchise but they are becoming fewer every year, of course our favorite stores the gun shops are mostly independent and are most likely to remain so. Even the smaller family owned franchise stores are in danger, by that I mean for example a hardware store in our community has the appearance of an old independent type store but is actually an ACE hardware franchise now. Big volume dealers are going to have the buying power to purchase stock at mass volume discounts and sell at a profit margin that is going to starve out the smaller operators and short of Government intervention there's really no practical way of stopping it. It's called free enterprise and the only real way to prevent change is for us, the consumers, to pass up the lower big chain prices and patronize the smaller independently owned businesses at a higher cost, as I said before that just ain't gonna happen! Now for gun shops it may be a bit different because it seems that local dealers are if anything actually beating the big store prices but that too may change.

[dtknowles]

That's just the point there are hardly any left anymore! There are a few in this area that are still independently owned and not part of a franchise but they are becoming fewer every year, of course our favorite stores the gun shops are mostly independent and are most likely to remain so. Even the smaller family owned franchise stores are in danger, by that I mean for example a hardware store in our community has the appearance of an old independent type store but is actually an ACE hardware franchise now. Big volume dealers are going to have the buying power to purchase stock at mass volume discounts and sell at a profit margin that is going to starve out the smaller operators and short of Government intervention there's really no practical way of stopping it. It's called free enterprise and the only real way to prevent change is for us, the consumers, to pass up the lower big chain prices and patronize the smaller independently owned businesses at a higher cost, as I said before that just ain't gonna happen! Now for gun shops it may be a bit different because it seems that local dealers are if anything actually beating the big store prices but that too may change.

I was talking about 40 years ago. The stores have all been chain stores for longer than Walmart has been around.

Tim

[starmac]

Are you telling me that you have never seen a grocery store or hardware stor that wasn't a chaun, or even an indepently owned franchise. Hmm there are still a few (very few) but still around.

Many franchise hardware stores still have much in common with mom and pop ones of yeteryear, at least when you buy a lawn mower it has the wheels on it and has been cranked, and many have their own service dept. These are the things that I hate to see leaving.

Here at least people shop at wallmart for the percieved convenience I think, because as far as groceries goes, Fred Meyers or safeway has way better meat, and I'm talking no comparison. Canned goods are pretty much always cheaper at Fred Meyers, but wallmart is cheaper on chinese goods, and unless other big box stores starts running their own ships, they will never be able to compete on chinese imports.

[lefty o]

until a couple of years ago, there was an independently owned grocery store in the little town my folks live in. what killed the store, they opened a wallyworld 20 miles away.

[dtknowles]

Are you telling me that you have never seen a grocery store or hardware stor that wasn't a chaun, or even an indepently owned franchise. Hmm there are still a few (very few) but still around.

Many franchise hardware stores still have much in common with mom and pop ones of yeteryear, at least when you buy a lawn mower it has the wheels on it and has been cranked, and many have their own service dept. These are the things that I hate to see leaving.

Here at least people shop at wallmart for the percieved convenience I think, because as far as groceries goes, Fred Meyers or safeway has way better meat, and I'm talking no comparison. Canned goods are pretty much always cheaper at Fred Meyers, but wallmart is cheaper on chinese goods, and unless other big box stores starts running their own ships, they will never be able to compete on chinese imports.

I suspect that maybe some or even many where independently owned franchises, don't really know. 45 years ago the only grocery stores in town were and A&P and a Shop & Save. Drug store was a Rexall, the 5 & Dime was a Ben Franklin. I think we had a Woolworth and a Sears Catalog Store. There was an independent hardware store and a Western Auto. Currently I buy as much or more from Fred's, Family Dollar, Dollar Store, Winn Dixie, Rouses, etc. as I do from Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot. I don't see how the local owners make any of these business any better if any have local owners. I would consider using a mom and pop business if they sell anything I need or want. I bought some gator and boudin from the fish shop. I had my local gun shop do my FFL transfers. If they had something beside black rifles and plastic pistols I would consider buying a gun from them. I did buy some Rimfire ammo just to give them some business beside the transfers. I pay to use their range sometimes. I use the local car dealers once or twice each decade. Even here it is hard to find a restaurant that is not a chain. Exactly what mom and pop shops am I supposed to shop at.

Tim

[kfarm]

I think things were a lot better when we had western auto and gibsons around. Just ramblings of me thinking about days past.

[MaryB]

The only grocery store I would buy meat from closed. Small independently owned chain with a total of 8 stores, each independent but shared buying power.