44/40 loading

[ejh69]

Anybody loading a 44/40? I understand it is a hard round to get started with. Any suggestion to smooth out my way I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

[gpidaho]

eth69: I load 44-40 and have no special problems with it. Necks are a little thin, but no worse than many others. I have used Star Line and factory Win. both with good results. Great old round. Have fun. GP

[Nueces]

The case necks tend to be thin, so the case will often not survive a bump against the sizer die mouth that would do no more than dull the shine on a 45 Colt. More care is called for here. I think you'll want to use case sizing lube - I recommend Imperial Sizing Wax. It can be wiped off afterward, or removed by tumbling. When you size your first case, check it in the chamber of your gun right away. Dies for some of the WCF rounds won't push the shoulder down far enough for some chambers.

SAAMI specifies a 0.427" bullet diameter, but modern firearms use a nominal 0.429" barrel, and many 44 shooters find they must size to up to 0.432". A 44-40 chamber may not accept boolits of such large diameter. Worth investigating this up front by measuring your throats and barrel. You can find the largest diameter acceptable to your chamber by using a series of pin gauges seated as bullets.

Because of the thin case neck, roll crimping can also be dicey sometimes. A Lee rifle (collet) type factory crimp die will sweeten your life here.

[doc1876]

I have Lee dies. There was a lot of issues getting started. one of the worst was that when the seating/crimping of the bullet came into play. The only way it worked for me was for the case to be about 1/2 in out of the die. I eventually used an old Ideal hand die to see what was really happening, and I found that if I did the Lee press like I said, it did work well. (I do not know how many cases I ruined before I discovered this) I contacted lee, and they were amazed, but said for me to do whatever it took to make it work(??!).
Take a factory load, and use it to make a dummy for setting things up. I think if I had done this in the first place it would have been fine.
I do not resize, and I do use a light lube on the other dies.
I posted somewhere else, that I read if you use a 44sp expander die that it will help seat the bullet better. I have not done this as of yet, but I can see how it would work (Note previous post)
I will say, that after getting set up, I enjoy the challenge of them, but if you can not accept a difficult adventure, I would find something else to do.

[dikman]

I'm very new to all this, and have just bought an old Winchester. I was told the first thing to do is push a bullet down the barrel to find out what size the bore is. Mine came out to .428, and I believe there can be some variation in these old guns. I have a heap of reloading gear on its way from Titan Reloading (great people to deal with) and am about to get involved in the arcane art of reloading the 44-40. (Guess I'd better brush up on my spell-casting too [smilie=1:).

I sort of wish I knew what I was doing.....

[doc1876]

pm me an email, and if I am still here today, I will send you some info. Otherwise it will be wendsday when I get back

[Outpost75]

Some old rifles have groove diameters as large as .435", but their chamber necks too small to permit loading a bullet which fits the barrel. Accurate 43-200Q is designed to work around this by having an enlarged nose flange which can be sized to any desired diameter. The driving bands are smaller, a heeled design, which avoids tolerance stacking issues with tight chamber necks. I hand-start bullets into the case neck with my fingers, smear a dab of soft grease around the shank of the bullet, then push the bullet nose against a table edge to drive it into the case until the nose flange stops against the stop ring. Then pass rounds through Lee Factory Crimp die. The oversized nose will be cold-formed to the interior of the crimp die, which can be adjusted to fit. Or you can push bullets through a conventional sizer, sizing the nose only, leaving the smaller bands unsized.

A charge of 7.2 grains of Bullseye gives 1270 fps from a 11822520" barrel and is accurate in every .44-40 we've tested it in.
118224

[dikman]

Doc, thanks for that stuff, most informative. I have several older reloading manuals, in .pdf, but your info was good being purely for the 44-40. I particularly like the one that said to load ffg black powder to just below the top of the case, no messing around with quantities and therefore it's impossible to over-charge the case! So that's what I did.

I might experiment with smokeless later, but for now I'll shoot it how it was meant to be shot :lol:.

[doc1876]

I am running 44-40s right now, so I thought I would check something.
When I seat and crimp, using the Lee dyes, I have to leave .300 of case (from the bottom of the rim to the die) out, or I crush cases. This is what I mentioned earlier about contacting the company about the setting. The booklet says to "screw in until the case holder touches, and then back it out (I don't know one or two turns), well believe me, mine don't work that a way, so watch what you got here, and all will go well.

[dikman]

I've got an RCBS 3-die set (came with the gun) and I was fine setting them up - until I came to the crimper!! The instructions didn't make any sense, no matter how I tried following them, so in the end I figured out just how it was supposed to work, and by trial-and-error got the setting right. The first attempt started crushing the case!!!

[chuckerbird]

Out post75.
Have you loaded bullseye behind any 225 grain bulits? If so could you share some load info?

[Outpost75]

I use the same 7.2 grain charge of Bullseye in my Marlin 1894S with Accurate 43-225D as I do with 43-200Q. velocity is 1249 fps from a 20" barrel.


Out post75.
Have you loaded bullseye behind any 225 grain bulits? If so could you share some load info?

[doc1876]

I've got an RCBS 3-die set (came with the gun) and I was fine setting them up - until I came to the crimper!! The instructions didn't make any sense, no matter how I tried following them, so in the end I figured out just how it was supposed to work, and by trial-and-error got the setting right. The first attempt started crushing the case!!!

that must be a common issue, as that is exactly what I was talking of

[canyon-ghost]

Just a note on how well the 44-40 really works. I shoot that 200 grain Lee bullet in my 44 Special Blackhawk. It's terribly accurate at 50, 75, and 100 meters (or yards). It shoots big, beefy, and tough. Not a whole lot of recoil with the 44 Special, I like this gun a lot. It's the one in the picture on the avatar!

Good Luck,
Ron

[veeman]

Do not roll crimp! Get a Lee Factory Crimp Die, never have another crushed case. My sizer, seater, expander dies are old Lyman. I got the .429 expander, never have a problem.

[dikman]

I loaded 20 rounds and tried them out today. While they fired, I had trouble loading and they were too long to feed from the magazine tube!! Lots of experimenting today, followed by lots of reading. I'd slugged the bore at .428, so logically figured I'd re-size the boolits to .429. While that's fine for the bore, it makes the diameter of the brass around the crimp to big for the chamber! Looks like I need to re-size to .427/.428. As for being too long, the boolits are cast from a Lyman mold, with a crimp groove and one lube groove ahead of it. If I crimp at the crimp groove they're too long, but if I crimp at the forward lube groove they're just right. Only problem with this is at .429 I have to bell the case quite a bit and I crushed a couple trying to get the setting right. Tried this with R & P and Win cases, same result.

Aarrgghhh! I should have stuck to muzzleloading!

A fellow club member made a few rounds for me to try the other week, so I've asked him to take some measurements of the loads (they were made using the same mold).

[chuckerbird]

Outpost75
Thanks for the info. I have a HRAC model 1860. I have been using 6.7gr of bullseye and am getting 3 to 4 inch groups at 100yrds. Loaded some 225gr with 6.0 gr. of bullseye. Haven't shot them yet. Was a bit concerned about the heavier bullet and not having any load data to work with.

[robg]

lube cases well not forgetting to lube inside the necks ,not as hard as youve been lead to belive.

[Outpost75]

Outpost75, Thanks for the info. I have a HRAC model 1860. I have been using 6.7gr of bullseye and am getting 3 to 4 inch groups at 100yrds. Loaded some 225gr with 6.0 gr. of bullseye. Haven't shot them yet. Was a bit concerned about the heavier bullet and not having any load data to work with.

The 7.2 grain Bullseye load is a bit warm for a toggle-link Henry or '73 action.

It is fine in the Marlin, 1892 Winchester or Colt New Service, but not in the SAA or clones.

Your 6.7 is in the right ballpark, but it wouldn't hurt to cut it to 6.0 to 6.5 grains for a 225...

[dikman]

Ok, solved one of my problems and I owe RCBS an apology, their instructions for setting the seating/crimper die are correct, it's only since I've got a bit more experience by messing around with things that I began to understand exactly what they were on about. I reset the crimper, and even though it's not much different to my original setting it's now closing the case around the boolit a couple of thou smaller (which was all it needed). Also, by crimping at the last groove (lube groove, and not the cannelure, I'm getting the correct length.

Now, I just need to figure out why they're not feeding smoothly when I close the lever.........

[chuckerbird]

Dikman
Are you using round nose bullits or semiwadcutters?

[dikman]

Semi-wadcutters. The nose is feeding into the chamber, the problem appears to be at the rim end. They seem to be catching sometimes as they are being lifted/pushed up from below. A club member has a newer model, when I see him Saturday I'll have a look at the action on his and see if I can see any obvious differences.

[dikman]

Fixed it! (I think I should have been a gunsmith :D). There seemed to be two issues - the cases were sometimes catching very slightly on the lip of the left hand cartridge guide, and the two extended prongs on the nose of the ejector felt just a bit rough when sliding over the rear of the case as the ejector pushed the cartridge up and forward.

So I completely stripped the rifle, removing everything that was removable. Even though this gun has had a lot of use (as in wear) when I examined the side guides there was a very faint "edge" at the top of the lip - I could feel it as I slid a cartridge over it, rather than actually see anything (even under a magnifier). I smoothed the edges down with a fine stone and rounded off the top corner slightly and polished the edges. I did this on both guides. Next was the front of the ejector. Even though it looked ok, albeit a bit worn, by running my fingernail over it I could just feel a bit of roughness. I smoothed it off on an oilstone and then for good measure polished the front edges on a buffer. Now it was nice and smooth. Everything else looked good so I put it all back together. From the look of everything, I reckon you could have a fair bit of wear on these things and as long as everything is kept smooth they'll just keep going (no "high precision" parts here). I like it.

Put in a couple of dummy rounds and they cycled beautifully! No hint of any hesitation in operation. Repeated it several times.

I was a very happy chappy at that point :bigsmyl2:.

[dikman]

Did my first ever cartridge reloads (great fun) - 35 gns. of 2f black powder. My first ever shooting of a lever action and at 50 metres no-one had any idea where they were going!! Dropped back to 25 metres and it was woeful, accuracy was non-existant. Gave it away for the day.
Next day tried again (25 metres), and this time the first two were in the black, the third went high. So I ran a swab down the barrel and not surprisingly it came out filthy. Next shot was a nine. Hmmm, ran a swab down again, next one was a ten.
Treating it like my longrifle, and swabbing between shots, showed that there's nothing wrong with the rifle. Next I loaded five in the mag and banged them out one after the other and while they were on the target there was a bit of spread. So it seems with BP the best I can get is two in a row and then the fouling becomes a problem (cleaning after five wasn't easy, there was a definite heavy buildup just forward of the receiver).

A fellow club member suggested trying 1f, he said that members in another club used it and it created less fouling. I've seived the 2f to separate the "fines" and will give it a try - until I can get some smokeless!

[chuckerbird]

Dikman,
I had the same result with the ammo I bought from Buffalo Arms. Supposed to be loaded with Swiss powder. All over the paper at 50yrds. Really dirty.
Took 5 or even 8 patches to clean the bore. Went back to smokeless and my 3 to 4 inch groups at 100yrds. The smoke was neat but the cleanup
and accuracy really sucked.

[bigbuck]

My classic load is swiss3 33grain no patch bollit with larger grease groovehttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/20/53597194b4493f5aba1509519bc8b2bb.jpg

50 meters. Just nice. And cleaning is way over estimated[emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]

[Wayne Smith]

What are you using for lube? And how much does the boolit carry? I use the MAV big lube boolit and have no problem using 3f Goex.

[Hang Fire]

I do my 44-40 reloading with old Ideal tools, works out fine for my Model P Colt.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010324.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/TANSTAAFL-2/media/P1010324.jpg.html)

[Outpost75]

Nice tools, Hangfire!

[w30wcf]

I am running 44-40s right now, so I thought I would check something.
When I seat and crimp, using the Lee dyes, I have to leave .300 of case (from the bottom of the rim to the die) out, or I crush cases. This is what I mentioned earlier about contacting the company about the setting. The booklet says to "screw in until the case holder touches, and then back it out (I don't know one or two turns), well believe me, mine don't work that a way, so watch what you got here, and all will go well.

Doc,
The most likely cause....if the seating die neck dimension is correct...is that the bullet is bigger than the neck will allow. I have RCBS dies and the seating die works as it should with up to .431" diameter bullets. Larger than that and I have to back the die out just like you indicated.

W30wcf

[w30wcf]

Did my first ever cartridge reloads (great fun) - 35 gns. of 2f black powder. My first ever shooting of a lever action and at 50 metres no-one had any idea where they were going!! Dropped back to 25 metres and it was woeful, accuracy was non-existant. Gave it away for the day.
Next day tried again (25 metres), and this time the first two were in the black, the third went high. So I ran a swab down the barrel and not surprisingly it came out filthy. Next shot was a nine. Hmmm, ran a swab down again, next one was a ten.
Treating it like my longrifle, and swabbing between shots, showed that there's nothing wrong with the rifle. Next I loaded five in the mag and banged them out one after the other and while they were on the target there was a bit of spread. So it seems with BP the best I can get is two in a row and then the fouling becomes a problem (cleaning after five wasn't easy, there was a definite heavy buildup just forward of the receiver).

A fellow club member suggested trying 1f, he said that members in another club used it and it created less fouling. I've seived the 2f to separate the "fines" and will give it a try - until I can get some smokeless!

dikman,
If you are using the right type of lube and the bullet carries enough lube for the trip down the barrel, you will be able to shoot at least 50 rounds with accuracy being maintained throughout regardless of the type of powder.

What bullet / lube are you using?

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Dikman,
I had the same result with the ammo I bought from Buffalo Arms. Supposed to be loaded with Swiss powder. All over the paper at 50yrds. Really dirty.
Took 5 or even 8 patches to clean the bore. Went back to smokeless and my 3 to 4 inch groups at 100yrds. The smoke was neat but the cleanup
and accuracy really sucked.

chuckerbird,
Sorry to hear of the poor showing of the Buffalo Arms ammo. Based on your results, I wonder if they are really using Swiss powder. I use Swiss in the 44-40 and it gives excellent results.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

I do my 44-40 reloading with old Ideal tools, works out fine for my Model P Colt.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010324.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/TANSTAAFL-2/media/P1010324.jpg.html)

Very nice!

w30wcf

[dikman]

w30wcf, I used some BP lube that I happened to have handy, but apart from it being too thin I learned something at the range - what I thought was the cannelure is actually the grease groove! Bearing in mind that I'm new to cartridge reloading, nowhere had I read about which groove was which, so I got it wrong (seems obvious in hindsight!). So for my next lot of boolits I'm going to pan-lube with a stiffer grease (beeswax/paraffin wax/mutton tallow), which I happen to have made up.

[w30wcf]

dikman,
Sounds like you might be using the Lyman 427098(?) per the left bullet in this pic.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/764a9324-e776-488a-a06f-ede185fde6c0.jpg

Ii have found that I can get about a dozen shots with the 427098 with Goex and similar powders before the barrel (24") starts to foul out with rapidly diminishing accuracy. HOWEVER, with Swiss or Olde Enysford, the 427098 runs fine for many many rounds with continued accurate shooting.... :smile:

This is an example of the accuracy that can be obtained with the 427098 / Swiss combination at 100 yards. Note that the group was fired after 30 rounds had been expended.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/44-40shots31-40a.jpg

If your bullet is undersized of your barrel, for best results it needs to be soft so that it will bump up to fill the groove. I would suggest pure lead or no harder than 50/1. Compress the powder to a minimum of least .10". You may need to pre compress with your neck expander or a smaller diameter bullet if using pure lead.

If your bullet is at least groove size or better yet, .001+" over then it doesn't matter how hard the bullet is.

I usually seat the 427098 to about 1.56" oal to crimp over the front driving band.

These bullets were developed to run with any b.p. since they carry an adequate amount of lube.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/44-40BlackPowderbullets-1.jpg

Good luck,
w30wcf

[dikman]

Bore slugged at .428, boolit sized at .429. They are from a Lyman mold (lent to me by a club member as they are too small for his barrel!) but look more like the Big Lube, but with a smaller grease groove.

It's a funny thing, but for some reason the lever gun feels like a "proper" rifle to me (ignoring my BP guns, of course). It might be old, and it might be beat up, but I love it!

[bigbuck]

What are you using for lube? And how much does the boolit carry? I use the MAV big lube boolit and have no problem using 3f Goex.

Hello

Its a German made BP lube really good

The lead is a H&N design with a larger lube groove aprox 215grain

Greetings

[BCRider]

Just want to thank all of you for the great hints.

I'm just waiting on my first Uberti Yellowboy arriving (should be in today in fact) and I've got a set of Lee dies and a bag of new Starline brass sitting by the loading bench. The plan is to mostly use this for BP cowboy shooting along with my C&B revolvers. But I'm sure it'll also provide some great smokeless plinking sessions.

I can see that the hints in this thread will go a long way to speeding up my setup and success with this cartridge.

[dikman]

BCRider, I've found loading to be a lot of fun, and quite therapeutic, but getting it right proved far more complex than I expected (amazing what difference a couple of thou can make!!). I found the setting of the crimper/seating die is fairly touchy, and suggest you make up a couple of dummy loads first, to make sure they'll chamber/feed properly.

I'm now in the process of making a tumbler so that I can clean the brass (I did a few by hand, not a very practical proposition).

Oh, and if you're using BP throw the spent cases into a container of water as soon as you can, it makes them easier to clean and reduces any risk of corrosion.

[BCRider]

Thanks, I've got to finish off loading a few more smokeless .357's for my cowboy rifle but sometime tomorrow or the next day I'm going to start with some dummies for the .44-40. I'll be re-reading this thread in detail before I start out.

Given all the apparent issues with .44-40 compared to how simple straight wall cases are this would be a good candidate for a sticky thread.

[w30wcf]

Bore slugged at .428, boolit sized at .429. They are from a Lyman mold (lent to me by a club member as they are too small for his barrel!) but look more like the Big Lube, but with a smaller grease groove.

Is it the middle bullet?
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/44-40bullets.jpg

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

BCRider, I've found loading to be a lot of fun, and quite therapeutic, but getting it right proved far more complex than I expected (amazing what difference a couple of thou can make!!). I found the setting of the crimper/seating die is fairly touchy, and suggest you make up a couple of dummy loads first, to make sure they'll chamber/feed properly.

I'm now in the process of making a tumbler so that I can clean the brass (I did a few by hand, not a very practical proposition).

Oh, and if you're using BP throw the spent cases into a container of water as soon as you can, it makes them easier to clean and reduces any risk of corrosion.

It is important that, when using a standard seat crimp die, that the brass is the same length. The easy way to set the die properly is to
1.) Back the die out and place an empty case into the shell holder and run it to the top position.
2.) Turn the die down until you feel it touch the top of the case and then back it off 1/2 turn.
3.) Back out the seating stem several turns.
4.) Remove the case and place a charged case / bullet to be seated into the shell holder.
5.) Run the case / bullet up into the die and adjust the seating stem until the bullet is seated to the proper location.
6.) Back off the seating stem and adjust the die down until the proper crimp is reached.
7.) With the cartridge in the crimp position, adjust the seating stem down to contact the bullet.
Your die is now adjusted properly to seat & crimp in one operation.

Due to certain bullet crimp groove types it sometimes is better to seat the bullet in one operation and then crimp in another.

CLEANING BRASS after firing b.p. -
I have not found it necessary to place the cases into water (or water / soap solution) immediately after firing since I have found that also makes the brass dirty on the outside. Rather I wait sometimes up to a day or 2 and then stand the cases in a shallow container that is higher than the cases. I then pour a 50/50 white vinegar / water solution over the cases and to a level slightly over the top. After the solution nullifies the fouling (a few minutes) I dump the solution and rinse the cases well with warm water and set them aside to dry.

There are other ways of doing it but that is what works for me.

w30wcf

[dikman]

Because I only shoot at a range, it's no big deal for me to have a container of water handy at the bench, but I might give the vinegar/water thing a try too (anything to make cleaning easier!). Thanks for that.

Just had a thought - I wonder how the vinegar/water would work in a tumbler? The agitation should clean a bit better, maybe? Might have to give it a try.

[doc1876]

Doc,
The most likely cause....if the seating die neck dimension is correct...is that the bullet is bigger than the neck will allow. I have RCBS dies and the seating die works as it should with up to .431" diameter bullets. Larger than that and I have to back the die out just like you indicated.

W30wcf

Yes, I have experienced this. I clean the expander often, and do check for depth, still every now and then one crushes.
The .44 sp expander did me no good, btw

[dikman]

W30wcf, missed the photo before (dumb!) yep, that's the one, I just checked the mold number.

[w30wcf]

dikman,
I have shot that bullet a bit with Goex and like powders and found that the barrel fouls out fairly quickly since the bullet does not carry an adequate amount of lube for the trip down the barrel.

However, with Swiss b.p. it runs fine for multiple shots since Swiss burns with a moist fouling whereas the others do not. Olde Enysford would likely do well also.

You could use a duplex load to keep the fouling in control. I have used 4 grs of 4227 under 30 grs of Goex in the .44-40 and that seemed to work well.....plenty of smoke....

w30wcf

[robg]

i used lee dies lubed inside the necks large pistol primers & crimped gently. satisfying round to load ,touching history.

[dikman]

We don't have the selection of powders available here that you have. Swiss is difficult to get and horribly expensive, so very few use it except in matches. A club member mentioned that another club uses 1f in their levers, so I sieved some 2f to remove the fine stuff and tried that. It shot well enough, and although I still had fouling it didn't seem quite as bad. I've also just made up another batch using a stiffer lube, so I'll give that a try today.

At least I've got my press and dies sorted, and it's all loading consistently.

[dikman]

I've decided to use smokeless powder due to the fouling issue, but that of course creates even more problems - finding a suitable powder![smilie=b: We have a locally made powder which is considered eminently suitable for these cartridges - but no-one has any! Trailboss is also recommended - but no-one has any! One shop has some Blue Dot, but doing some research has come up with conflicting statements on whether it is suitable for this cartridge.

Would any of you more experienced chaps care to enlighten me about Blue Dot, please?

[Outpost75]

I would not use Blue Dot in .44-40. Unique, Herco, PB, sure, but Blue Dot is trouble!

Any 12-ga. shotgun powder suitable for 3 drams equivalent, 1-1/8 oz. trap and skeet or light field loads would also be suitable. Red Dot, Green Dot, 700X, WST, etc.

7.5 grains of Red Dot is a full charge 1300 fps load with 200-grain lead bullet for the Winchester 92. Don't exceed 6.5 grains in Colt revolvers or the '73 Winchester.

[dikman]

Thanks for that, Outpost. Many of the powders you chaps talk about aren't available here so my options are pretty limited (particularly as any powder appears to be in short supply at the moment). I think I'll give the Blue Dot a miss. TrailBoss is supposed to be available in a week or so, guess I'll hang out for that.

[dikman]

Finally found a place that had some TrailBoss, so went for a ride to get it. Being used to BP, I found that this is very weird looking stuff indeed, and my powder thrower doesn't like it at all! Looks like I'll have to make a dipper for it.

[Outpost75]

Thanks for that, Outpost. Many of the powders you chaps talk about aren't available here so my options are pretty limited (particularly as any powder appears to be in short supply at the moment). I think I'll give the Blue Dot a miss. TrailBoss is supposed to be available in a week or so, guess I'll hang out for that.


I don't know how popular shotgun reloading is down your way, but my friend in Italy searches among the readily available and popular shotgun powders there for light field and target loads in 12-gage, then compares the 12-ga. load data with published data for similar US powders, such as Red Dot, 700-X or WST, which are also used here for handgun loads. His usual COwboy load formula is to find a powder which in shotgun loads performs similarly to Red Dot, and then he substitutes the available powder, firing in a strong gun (Ruger), working up loads over a chronograph.

He has found with most 12-ga. target load powders you can start with the suggested "starting" load for Bullseye and not get into any trouble, the bullet will exit the barrel reliably, and if you can snag a velocity reading, it is simple to adjust the charge. He works up a powder charge in cowboy calibers which gives 250+/- 10 m/s in the revolver and lets the velocity go where ever it does in the rifle. Working the other way, rifle loads should not exceed about 400 m/s in a 24" barrel with plainbased bullets.

He shoots only Ruger revolvers and Marlin or modern Winchester '92 clone rifles which have strong actions, having blown up a Uberti 1873 clone by this method previously. Similarly, I use a Ruger New Model Blackhawk and Marlin 1894S to work up my .44-40 loads and I don't believe in using anything but strong modern guns with smokeless. I sold off my black powder only guns to collectors years ago.

I never cared for powders of large particle size which are unsuited for machine loading. Over the years I have used more Bullseye than all other pistol or shotgun powders combined. It also works well when cautiously used in gallery rifle loads, taking precautions against double or multiple charges. Long ago I developed my Bullseye rifle loads when I worked in the industry and had access to pressure test equipment, choosing loads in which an inadvertent double charge would not blow up a gun.

[w30wcf]

Actually.........I have used Blue Dot in the 44-40 with very good results.....BUT ONLY if the powder is positioned to the back of the case. Otherwise, to Outpost 75's point, wide velocity variations will be the result.

Older Hercules Data showed 12 grs of BD under a 200 gr. bullet giving 1,225 fps.

I probably burned close to a lb. of it in my original '73 .44 WCF.

w30wcf

[dikman]

Thanks for the replies guys.
The most common (and usually available) powders are made here in Oz by ADI, and they generally make equivalents to the various other overseas powders (they also make the Trailboss, under licence). The problem is that the one that is recommended for 44-40 use (AP70N) hasn't been available for some time due to a "problem" at their plant (I think something went boom). Trying to get any of the other brands is somewhat problematical at the moment - meaning there's none available! So I jumped at the Trailboss, as beggars can't be choosers, as they say.

w30wcf, yes, I'd picked up on that potential problem with using any loads that don't fill the case, particularly when a very small amount of powder is used (some powders appear to be worse than others). Some use fillers to hold the powder against the rear of the case, but I'm not interested in doing that.

By the time I've used up this stuff the AP70 should be available, in which case I'll start using that - cheaper to buy and should go through the thrower ok!.

[dikman]

Shot the Trailboss today and I'm very happy with it (no fouling!). I used 5.5 gns, but after I'd loaded 50 cartridges it occurred to me to check the weight of the boolits - 212 gns. Hmm, I thought they were 200 gns, so it looks like I need to increase the load slightly, probably try 6.5 gns.

Sure is fun shooting a lever, think I may need another one :lol:.

[w30wcf]

Glad to see that you have had success with Trailboss. My same mold drops 212 gr. bullets in w.w. alloy. Why Lyman calls it a 200 gr is a bit of a mystery. The same is true of the RCBS 200. It goes 214 grs.

6.5 / Trailboss is one of my favorite Cowboy type (1000 f.p.s.) loads in the .44-40. The other is 6.2 grs / Titegroup.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/44-40Hornady42765TB.jpg

w30wcf