44-40 ~ 38-40 brass resize

[Steelslide]

38 40 brass is a little hard to get at the moment and expensive. I do have a couple of hundred new 44-40 Winchester cases though. Can I just run the 44's into my 38 die to resize them. I read I should anneal the cases first. I have never attempted to do this before. Questions !!..
1. Can I run these through the 38 dies without crumpling the cases WITHOUT annealing first. (applying plenty of lube of course and going very very slowing in stages even)
2. If I have to anneal them, I have a portable plow torch here..how long should I apply the heat to them. Will the brass change color?
3. Do I have to run them into the die still hot/warm ie: will I have to do one at a time ie: heat a case run it in the die...heat the next case etc etc
4. Shall I let them cool naturally or drop them in water

I no doubt will have a crack at doing one this evening with out heating them, but any input would be very welcome

Thx
Steelslide

[enfield]

anneal the neck with a propane torch , hold the base with needle nose pliers, would not take very long to get an even orange color by rotating the case and then drop in cold water ( no need for a fancy torch and rotating table contraption ). I have not made 38-40 from 44-40 but I suspect it would be pretty easy compared to other resizes that are more extreme. I would not attempt it without annealing though.

[curator]

Yes anneal first. My experience has included lots of folded and damaged cases until I learned to size in steps with careful 're-lubing" between each step. Go slow and don't try to do it all at once. I had the best success sizing a little less than 1/4 inch, backing off, re-distributing the case sizing lube and sizing another 1/4" until the shell holder hit the sizing die bottom. Minimal lube prevents lube dents. You wouldn't think sizing down .02" would be such a big deal but .44-40 brass is real thin, particularly Winchester brass. Unfortunately, most .38-40 full length sizing dies also size a bit on the small side because of large historical chamber variations.

[MikeT]

I would try one of those 44-40 cases in the 38-40 FL die. Go several times part way and stay lightly lubricated. The wall thickness is very thin so be careful.
The difference between the 44 and 38 is only about .030" on the case OD. Annealing a very thin case could be a problem for a novice.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[Chill Wills]

The above few posts are very good advice.

Here is another idea you might find helpful.
In addition to the above, if you have a 38-40 3-die set, try the seater die as your first form die. The seater die in many brands will be close but larger than the FL die and makes a great form die.

If so, you can anneal, lube, -then work the 44-40 case into the seat die with short up/down strokes using your left hand fingers to rewipe/lube the case quickly while you complete the first case stage with the seater die.

Then do the same with the FL die. This sounds time consuming but once you get the feel for it, it goes fast. Put all the cases through each operation before moving on to the next to save time.

[Chill Wills]

One should never assume anything and in keeping with that thought I should mention that if you want to try using the seating die as the first die in a 2-step reforming process you NEED to remove the seating stem before starting.....

[Eutectic]

Steelslide,

I would go to this link.. The Starline is much better brass than your WW .44-40 is (or would be formed) without even considering the major pain to reform it. Starline states next month availability.

A lot of body taper and very gradual shoulders do not form well with just your standard die set. You can end up with wrinkles and shoulder dents. If you do try go in several steps, a little at a time, with light lube (especially at the last).

I would anneal when I was done not before.

Eutectic

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/38-40-Brass/ (https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/38-40-Brass/)

[martinibelgian]

FWIW, when I needed some 38-40 I didn't really give it a thought, just lubed some cases (spraringly! - too much lube will give you dents in the neck!) and just ran them through the sizer die in a single stroke. Came out fine, except when I used too much lube - this gave me lube dents in the neck. It doesn't take much lube to form those cases... If you want to be careful, apply half a stroke of the sizer, redistribute the lube with your fingers, and then size completely. This is not a hard case-forming operation.