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bhp9
02-03-2008, 07:28 AM
Here is how I cast bullets.

Cast bullets not only enable a shooter to shoot more cheaply but enable a shooter to shoot way more rounds out of his pistol or rifle before barrel burn out and action wear out (in auto pistols).

Well made cast bullets are every bit as accurate as the much more expensive jacketed bullets.

In rifles your barrel in most cases will last 3 times as long as compared to shooting full power factory ammo or bore damaging outdated and often unsafe blaster corrosive ammo. You will also get half the recoil and muzzle blast with lower velocity lead bullet reloads.

One of the secrets of shooting cast bullets is never to shoot undersize bullets down the barrel. I usually go at least 1 thousandths oversize and going as much as 3 thousands will in most cases cut leading down to a minimum, if not altogether. Accuracy is not hurt either. Most of the leading takes place from the melting of a bullets sides by gas escaping from around the undersize bullet, not from the base melting, so shooting the proper size bullet is must.

Gas checks do not stop leading but do enhance accuracy in cast rifle bullets as they keep the base of the lead bullet from being distorted and melted. I do not find gas checks necessary in pistol loads unless the velocity goes over 1,000 fps.

When using a bullet mold the first thing you must do is get out all the oil from the mold. This is best done by boiling the mold for at least 30 minutes in hot water over a slow fire with some dish water detergent added. Do not use too much or you will get a film of soap over the mold. Some people simply spray the mold with a degreaser which is faster than boiling it but if the mold has a lot of trapped oil inside it this often does not work. Remember though., that when you store the mold if it is not oiled I can almost guarantee you that it will rust. Just use WD 40 on the mold AFTER IT IS DEAD COLD and then seal it in a plastic bag and put it in an army ammo can that has a sealing gasket in good condition and the mold will never rust. Failure to protect your mold in humid climates will result in immediate rusting.

The next problem you will experience is rounded bullets. This comes from too cold a mold. Its best to put the mold on top of the pot while the metal is melting so that the mold will heat up to operating temperature and be ready to cast good bullets immediately.

For making really good bullets follow the Lyman No. 2 formula as I have found that trying to go cheapie and use straight wheel weights often results in rounded bullets, especially in smaller calibers with multiple grease grooves. Larger bullets with one large grease groove are more forgiving but many times its just harder to see the irregularities with such bullets, but if you look close they are often still there. In the old days wheel weights had some tin in them but like everything else these days everything they make is cheap and most of today’s wheel weights have not a trace of tin in them. Tin is necessary to insure the complete fill out of the bullet when cast.

When casting the first problem you will face is an overheated mold. To continue casting means that the lead will soon start to run out under the spruce plate causing the plate to cock and it will in turn damaged the top of the mold. The vent holes will also begin to plug up which will result in bullets that will not fill out. I generally put a wet shop rag down and simply turn over the mold and press the sprue plate to it to cool it down. When the mold really gets hot you have two choices, you can take break and quit casting (not practical when you are pressed for time or casting quickly) result to drastic measures. So what do you do? Hold on to your hat you are going to suffer a massive coronary when you read this. I take a plastic 1 gallon milk jug and cut off the top and fill it full of very, very hot tap water. I then take the mold with the hot bullet still in it and dip the mold quickly in and out of the water. Not done quickly the mold will cool down too much resulting in you having to cast a lot of bullets to get it back up to operating temperature. I have never warped a mold as long as the water was hot in the plastic jug and it will get hotter the more you dip the mold in it.

A WORD OF WARNING, DANGER, DANGER, DANGER, NEVER GET EVEN A DROP OF WATER IN THE MOLTED MELTAL OF THE CASTING POT OR YOU WILL SEE AN EXPLOSION BIGGER THAN THE BOMB THAT WENT OFF AT HIROSHIMA. ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES AND FULL LENGTH TO THE ELBOW WELDING GLOVES WHEN CASTING BULLETS AS ANY MOISTURE, EVEN NATURAL MOISTURE FORMING ON THE LEAD DIPPER USED FOR MIXING WILL CAUSE A MINI EXPLOSION.

Always cast with adequate ventilation, which usually means outside as it takes a powerful vent fan to get rid of lead fumes inside say a basement. I do my casting out in the garage with two doors open or cracked and I wear a painters rubber mask with filters that are made to protect one against lead fumes. MSA is a good company to get this equipment from.

Always make sure your sprue plate is smooth as a babies butt on the top or you will get sprue sticking to the plate. Many newer Lyman molds need the machine marks polished out of the plate and the sprue holes. Like everything else these days there is no such thing anymore as quality workmanship.

For rifle bullets I generally use straight Linotype metal unless the velocity is under 1,000 fps. You can push rifle bullets easily up to 1,900 fps with a gas check and with straight Linotype metal or the equivalent mix. For this velocity use a medium burning powder. IMR 4895 and IMR 4198 which are very good powders for cast bullet rifle loads in the 1,500 to 1,900 fps. Range.

I have found that pillow stuffing (usually about 1 grain) used as a filler, will eliminate hang fires and reduce the variation in shot to shot velocity by as much as 100 fps. I have had some loads vary only 5 fps when using the pillow stuffing which is outstanding.



Cast bullets not only enable you to shoot cheaply but are way more accurate than store bought cast bullets and enable you to make ammo for some of the obsolete calibers that finding ammo for is often very difficult and expensive. Example making 8x57 “J bore” bullets that are smaller in diameter than the standard 8x57 “JS” bore (standard German military caliber). You gun will last longer with cast bullets and your recoil will be much less which makes lots of shooting way more enjoyable and much cheaper too.

44man
02-03-2008, 09:16 AM
Sounds good except for one thing! :confused: I would never store a mold with WD-40 on it. The stuff will dry and can be the devil to remove. It also is one of the poorest rust preventatives ever made. I used it on my machinery in the garage long ago, bandsaw base, welder cover metal and radial saw base. These were painted parts. I would clean the dust off with a rag sprayed with WD-40. Every single item rusted very badly. I started to spray the stuff on the parts and the rust just kept getting worse.
I made the mistake of spraying a cast iron table saw once and the rust never did come off all the way. I had to use a course Scotch Brite pad on a grinder but you can still see where it rusted.
I keep my molds coated with Rapine mold prep, seems to keep them like new.

sundog
02-03-2008, 10:03 AM
bhp9, you seem to have this casting thing down to a fine art. How long you been at it?

bullshot
02-03-2008, 10:10 AM
I've been told WD_40 is a moisture absorber.

JSnover
02-03-2008, 10:18 AM
It's supposed to be a displacer, at least with water in liquid form. I (like a lot of others) have had really bad luck with it keeping moisture from finding it's way into my equipment. In my opinion WD-40 is a short-term fix: Once the problem is solved, clean that stuff out and use a better product for protection/lubrication.

38 Super Auto
02-03-2008, 10:38 AM
I do not find gas checks necessary in pistol loads unless the velocity goes over 1,000 fps

Good summary bhp9. I shoot pistol bullets in the 1350-1450fps range with no leading issues. I am sizing 1 mil over groove diameter using water dropped boolits at about 15-18 BHN. There are many factors. I agree with sizing 1-2mils over groove diameter.

Have you tried brake cleaner for degreasing molds? The stuff I have is tetrachloroethylene. I smells like trichloroethylene - the stuff we formerly used in the plant to remove flux from alumina substrates. Tetrachloroethylene is used as dry-cleaning fluid and for degreasing.

It's quick and cheap.

lathesmith
02-03-2008, 10:39 AM
Remember, part of WD40's "secret" formula is alcohol and vegetable oil. The alcohol has a short-term drying effect, and the veg oil is a decent short-term lub/cleaner. Beyond short-term, though, we all know what bad effects these two things have on bare metal. I use WD40 in the garage as a cleaner, and occasionally as a cutting lube, but NEVER as a long- or even short-term rust preventative. It just dont work for this-- in fact, it does the opposite.
lathesmith

TCFAN
02-03-2008, 11:43 AM
Sounds good except for one thing! :confused: I would never store a mold with WD-40 on it. The stuff will dry and can be the devil to remove. It also is one of the poorest rust preventatives ever made. I used it on my machinery in the garage long ago, bandsaw base, welder cover metal and radial saw base. These were painted parts. I would clean the dust off with a rag sprayed with WD-40. Every single item rusted very badly. I started to spray the stuff on the parts and the rust just kept getting worse.
I made the mistake of spraying a cast iron table saw once and the rust never did come off all the way. I had to use a course Scotch Brite pad on a grinder but you can still see where it rusted.
I keep my molds coated with Rapine mold prep, seems to keep them like new.



I guess I am the exception to the rule. I have used WD-40 for years and have never had any rust on any of my moulds.That being said, after joining here and reading all the bad things being said about WD-40 I have quit using it....

I also used the boil in water and dish soap method to remove the Wd-40.Never had a problem just to slow. Then I read about brake cleaner and tried some cheap Wal-Mart brake cleaner and it works great and is very fast...Terry

mroliver77
02-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Sundog.....:)
J

Maven
02-03-2008, 02:12 PM
bhp9's post should be made a "sticky" or required reading at the very least.

Longshooter
02-04-2008, 01:00 PM
WD-40 won't even kill primers. I have for 40 or so years used SHEATH both as first marketed or it's later version as made by Brownell's as a dipping oil, which they, Brownell's, said was the same as SHEATH without the bore cleaning material. Bought 4 pints of this in 1980, gave three away and still have over half a pint left. A little on a cleaning patch goes a long, long way. Easy to clean off a mould too.

EMC45
02-05-2008, 10:11 AM
Kroil is an awesome cleaning oil and a great bore cleaner too.

Bad Water Bill
02-05-2008, 09:55 PM
Try RIG I put it on guns and moulds. Had to keep them in the attic for over 20 years till after the kids grew up and the X left, NO rust anywhere. I love it. From what I have been told the Steel mills buy it in the 55 gal drums for the same reason. BWB:castmine:

hammerhead357
02-05-2008, 10:49 PM
Sundog, I wondered the same thing!!!!!!Wes

Flinchrock
02-06-2008, 12:39 AM
Sundog, I wondered the same thing!!!!!!Wes

All ya gotta do is read the books,,,good synopsis though. Never mind , I am just way too tired!

Single Shot
02-06-2008, 03:52 AM
bhp9

Nice informative post.

But you forgot to mention that bullet casting is addictive.:drinks:

longbow
02-06-2008, 09:05 PM
Great post!

I am surprised that no-one has commented on the "dipping the mould in water" statement. I do it all the time as well and have never had a problem - and I use cold tap water. I have read lots of comments warning never to do this but in about 40 years of casting I have never warped or cracked a mould by cooling (gently) in water.

Also. I am with the "don't use WD40 group" - at least alone. I have had experiences (not with moulds or guns) where the WD40 appears to evaporate and leave the surface dry and have seen rust. I do use WD40 but mix it with a light gun oil or 3 in 1 oil for moulds and guns. The WD40 helps penetrate and coat but the other oil remains regardless so I never get rust this way.

Having said that - I have never bothered to seal the mould in a plastic bag so there is a difference. Obviously that works for you.

Again great stuff.

Longbow

uncle joe
03-02-2008, 01:56 PM
bhp9

Nice informative post.

But you forgot to mention that bullet casting is addictive.:drinks:

no doubt
I just introduced my wife to pouring lead and she is hooked
must have something to do with the liquid 'sliver':mrgreen:

Brownie
03-05-2008, 08:26 PM
I cool my molds in a pail of cold water. the mold must be full of lead and dip it completely under the water and out again as fast as you can. do this as often as needed. it will not hurt the mold. another thing I do I use two or three molds ,when one gets hot just switch to another one.

testhop
03-06-2008, 07:46 PM
no doubt
I just introduced my wife to pouring lead and she is hooked
must have something to do with the liquid 'sliver':mrgreen:

JOEare you open to a job offer it is wife training you can start at my house lol

doccash
03-07-2008, 01:12 AM
Howdy All, I was wondering if it is an acceptable practice to leave the unpoured metal in the Pro Melt furnace to cool and harden? I always use 20:1 metal for my casting. Also, why do you think that my bottom spout drips sometimes between pours. Is this normal or does something need fixing/cleaning? Thanks, Dr.C

waksupi
03-07-2008, 10:58 AM
Howdy All, I was wondering if it is an acceptable practice to leave the unpoured metal in the Pro Melt furnace to cool and harden? I always use 20:1 metal for my casting. Also, why do you think that my bottom spout drips sometimes between pours. Is this normal or does something need fixing/cleaning? Thanks, Dr.C


Hi Doc. I like leaving some lead in my pots, as they melt quicker on next start up, than if they were completely empty.
Dripping pots are more or less, a fact of life. Some clip a pair of vise grips to the top of the spiquot, to add more weight. You can also drain the pot, disassemble, and spin the cut off in the drip hole, with some valve grinding compound, to mate the surfaces better. It could also be something as simple as a bit of dirt, that didn't get fluxed out of the alloy.

doccash
03-07-2008, 03:41 PM
Waksupi: Maybe I'll learn to post correctly and thank you for the information. Dr.C

Papa smurf
03-07-2008, 03:56 PM
Good informaion, I been using a wet wash cloth for many years . Just set the mold blocks on it for a second or two,with a boolet inside. Also I never use a stick to cut the spru , I have a welders glove on my right hand that I grasp the mold blocks with and thumb open the spru plate. I then pinch the bottem of mold blocks and open the mold with my left hand,takes a little practice. I Feel a mould is a finer thing and should not be hit with a hard wood stick. I have a Lyman #358429 I been using since the early 1960's Besides once you get the hang ove it you can cast much faster.

Thor Bloodax
03-07-2008, 04:10 PM
Papa Smurf, you must have hands like the Terminator. I am a big guy but I do not think I could ever thumb off the sprue on a 4 cav mould, maybe not even a single cavity. Can you crush a black walnut in your fist! Or a brick? What a man!

garandsrus
03-07-2008, 04:28 PM
Thor,

I use my gloved hand to cut the sprue all the time too.... I cut the sprue right after the final cavity changes color, or hardens, which is within 10 seconds of pouring the final cavity. It takes almost no effort even with a 4 cavity mold. If it is taking effort, you need to cut the sprue sooner or get the mold hotter.

I do preheat my molds on a hot plate which makes a huge difference in how the mold starts out the casting session.

I also return the sprue to the pot right after being cut.

John

Papa smurf
03-07-2008, 05:37 PM
Thanks garandsrus---- every now and then someone agrees with old Pap smurf.

Thor Bloodax
03-09-2008, 08:08 PM
Hey Papa Smurf, I was not doubting you. I was admiring your physical accomplishments. I just never did the thumbing off technique. I usually have let the spur harden and then whack it off. On my rig, if I try cutting too soon before hardnening, the lead smears. I'll see what I can do to improve this.

afish4570
03-09-2008, 11:35 PM
When my wife sees me casting, she always moans boolits again. I try to convince her that looking at table piled with a batch of water coolered 457122 boolits is like motherhood or fatherhood and must be done to be really appreciated. She just shakes her head thinking I am nuts.....could be slightly...afish4570:roll::roll::roll:

DJWright
04-16-2008, 10:45 PM
Hi guys, just curious as to how many moulds you fellers find casting with at one time to be optimum. I use 6-7 at one time. dependingon if I'm using 2 or 4 gang moulds.

Taylor
04-17-2008, 07:20 AM
Water Displacement-40th try!

BigBore56
02-16-2009, 04:32 PM
WD-40 is a "water displacer", and worked great in the old days to dry out a distributor cap when you drove thru a water hole.

Now, we have lots of better lublricants, petrolium based and synthetic. They all do a great job...I would only use WD-40 to flush out the tumblers in padlocks!

Reddot
02-16-2009, 10:58 PM
Don't use WD-40 for padlocks, eventually it will gum up the works.

Bert2368
02-17-2009, 01:04 PM
Have any of you tried Boeshield?

http://www.boeshield.com/index.htm

I use it on cast iron wood working tools, where it does what the manufacturer says... I've not tried to REMOVE it, however. So I have no idea yet if it would be a good choice for Iron mould blocks, or if it stays on too well.

A big + on WD-40, it woks better as a lubricant remover than as a long term lubricant. I've frequently used it as a cleaner when re-building trailer hubs somewhere without a parts washer available. For outdoor locks, Triflow is the thing.

http://www.triflowlubricants.com/Superior_Aerosol/superior_aerosol.html

It actually does what WD-40 claims to do. When I put a new magazine lock out in the field, first thing I do is litterally fill it with triflow.

Maven
02-17-2009, 06:02 PM
Bert, I've tried Bo-shield on the moving parts (chain, derailleurs) of my road bike, but it won't get a serious test/work out until the weather gets warmer and all the fine sand & gravel is swept from the area roads. Btw, L.L. Bean also sells it.

Jaybird62
02-25-2009, 12:58 AM
I'm in agreement with the WD40 problems. Cleaned, dried and put in a air-tight environment will help prevent rust.

slickrock
01-29-2010, 12:33 AM
use FLUID FILM to store your molds and you'll never have a problem, also use it on your guns, boots, door hinges, snowshovels, you name it.

best stuff ever made.

testhop
01-29-2010, 10:05 AM
slickrock
i agreeon the fluid flim.
the navy uses it on ships. so you know it must be good.

stephen perry
07-31-2010, 06:15 PM
Your's is a brilliant explanation of Casting. Most of the responders aren't appreciating what you write or don't know how to write themselves so the WD 40 spin-off.

I for one appreciate well thought out writing and for the new guy save this one dude because it don't get much better than what BHP wrote.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Russ in WY
07-31-2010, 10:54 PM
Fluid Film Goooood stuff. Have seen the ole salt water ocean side test results & it beat all comers Hands Down. Good on all metal surfaces that you want to protect.
My 2˘ Russ.

I was under the impression that it was Fish Oil in WD40. Some folks say they actually use it on Arthritic Joints to there fishing gear...

Jarhead68
12-04-2010, 04:57 PM
Bhp9

Good advice,I have just started to cast my own for center fire rifles and handguns
I did cast for black powder guns in the past ,with good results,but this stuff is all new to me
will be looking to this forum for lots of tips and advice !

badbob454
05-14-2011, 02:09 AM
hi guys, just curious as to how many moulds you fellers find casting with at one time to be optimum. I use 6-7 at one time. Dependingon if i'm using 2 or 4 gang moulds.

i can use up to 3 molds at a time i find i cannot keep up with the temp and i like to water drop hot boolits , most comfortable is 1 or 2 molds i will do 1 22 mold then 1 30 cal mold , then 1 22 mold ,22 again , then a 30 so i fill my 22 two times, for 1 time the 30 .... this keeps both molds up to temperature, for good fillout.

mje
10-28-2011, 05:26 PM
A hearty endorsement of Boeshield from me as well, both for bicycle use and general rust prevention.

WD-40 is mostly light hydrocarbons in the kerosene range, 25% mineral oil, with some other hydrocarbons and 2% DMSO added as a detergent. As such, it's a good penetrant, a good water displacer, but a poor protector. As noted, it evaporates and leaves no coating behind. A shot of WD-40 followed by storage in a sealed container with a desiccant *might* work. For long term storage, it's hard to beat Boeshield.

badbob454
10-29-2011, 01:48 AM
i run 2 molds at a time hard to overheat the mold this way i just take my time
pour, cut, water drop, ... pour ,cut, water drop.. and repeat run ol drippy on no 7 and heat up my molds in the top of the lead first few go in the pot untill they get up to temp
nice pot above ...bob.... guess i never thought about rust protection on my molds it pretty dry here but i think ill start ,maybe kroil and put it in an ammo can as suggested