158 358 lead in 9mm

[jim8115]

I use a bunch of the zero 158 lswc hp swaged bullets in my 38's. I have heard of folks loading these in 9mm pistols . Anyone try it? any suggestions?

JIM

[tazman]

I have used 155 grain boolits in my 9mm with good accuracy and function. I am using an older, discontinued Lee mold. The mold was designed specifically for 9mm and feeds well. It drops at 155 grains for me.
I use AA7 powder and run 5.6 grains. If I was at home I could give you velocity numbers. I think it is just under 900fps but don't hold me to that.
I run boolits from 95 grains to 155 grains in my 9mm.

[jim8115]

I have used 155 grain boolits in my 9mm with good accuracy and function. I am using an older, discontinued Lee mold. The mold was designed specifically for 9mm and feeds well. It drops at 155 grains for me.
I use AA7 powder and run 5.6 grains. If I was at home I could give you velocity numbers. I think it is just under 900fps but don't hold me to that.
I run boolits from 95 grains to 155 grains in my 9mm.

For that heavy bullet in a 9, what powder would you think best? I have bullseye,231,Nr-485, power pistol and unique

[tazman]

Given your selection, power pistol.
I would start around 4.2 and expect a max at 4.8 approximately.
Just be careful and watch for pressure signs.
Your chronograph is your friend here. Sudden speed spikes are a sure sign of beginning overpressure.

[BruceB]

Lyman handbook #46 lists 4.5 Unique as their top load with a 160-grain bullet in the 9mm.

They report 990 fps for this load.

Many years ago, I had a Browning High Power that reliably fed and fired the 358156 bullet..... yep, a semi-wadcutter. I don't recall the precise load now, but I DO remember the velocity was similar to what Lyman listed for their 4.5 Unique load.

With fourteen rounds in the pistol, it was almost the equivalent of THREE fully-loaded .38 snubbies.... pretty neat.

[jim8115]

Given your selection, power pistol.
I would start around 4.2 and expect a max at 4.8 approximately.
Just be careful and watch for pressure signs.
Your chronograph is your friend here. Sudden speed spikes are a sure sign of beginning overpressure.

1.100 ? that seats to the first step on that boolit... ran dummies through the mag, they feed and cycle
lyman shows for #35667 147Gr @ 1.058. 4.1 - 4.6 Power pistol I was thinkin of starting about 3.8 to 4.0

[tazman]

Lyman handbook #46 lists 4.5 Unique as their top load with a 160-grain bullet in the 9mm.

They report 990 fps for this load.

Many years ago, I had a Browning High Power that reliably fed and fired the 358156 bullet..... yep, a semi-wadcutter. I don't recall the precise load now, but I DO remember the velocity was similar to what Lyman listed for their 4.5 Unique load.

With fourteen rounds in the pistol, it was almost the equivalent of THREE fully-loaded .38 snubbies.... pretty neat.

That would be seriously impressive.
I haven't had much luck with semi-wadcutters in my 9mm. Just won't feed consistently.
Now round flat nose feed just fine. The SWC boolits seem to hang up on the shoulder somehow.

[tazman]

1.100 ? that seats to the first step on that boolit... ran dummies through the mag, they feed and cycle
lyman shows for #35667 147Gr @ 1.058. 4.1 - 4.6 Power pistol I was thinkin of starting about 3.8 to 4.0

I was going by an older Alliant manual I have. It suggested 5.7 power pistol for a 147gr jacketed. Drop that to 5.4 for lead then deduct some more for the heavier weight.
Worst thing that can happen at 3.8-4.0 is the pistol won't cycle. Start there and work up to an accurate functioning load. Just like you did with the NR-485.
That Lee boolit I mentioned was a 2R round nose and loaded to 1.146.

[jim8115]

That would be seriously impressive.
I haven't had much luck with semi-wadcutters in my 9mm. Just won't feed consistently.
Now round flat nose feed just fine. The SWC boolits seem to hang up on the shoulder somehow.

Yea, I know that for my XD40, the secret to getting SWC's to cycle is to seat them short

[tazman]

I tried the Lee 105 for a while. I had it loaded very short as well as long as I could. Nothing worked.
No matter what I would still get 3 or 4 per box that would hang up on entry.
I finally gave up. I have other light weight boolits that shoot well so I don't need to have the stress and aggravation the 105 gave me.

[jim8115]

Ok, I went with 158 Zero Swaged SWC HP (.358) 3.0 Gr Bullseye @ 1.110 I went with bullseye because I wanted to start at a pretty low velocity, and wasnt sure how power pistol would act at that much of a reduced load, anyway.........
from the SR9, avg velocity 803 FPS, cycle and run fine......BUT , they are keyholing into a 6 inch group at 25 feet.
Shooting from a Hi-Point carbine, they shoot a ragged hole at the same distance, no keyholing.......
Will increasing the charge help the keyholing?

JIM

[30calflash]

I used 158 RNL's and SWC's in an older Browning Hi Power years back. IIRC 3.0 grs. of bullseye or 3.5 grs. Unique seated to function from the magazine worked well. The RNL's were a lyman cast, the SWC's were Remington factory HP's. They shot well out to 25 yards, about 4" groups, the max distance tried at the time. YMMV.

[tazman]

Ok, I went with 158 Zero Swaged SWC HP (.358) 3.0 Gr Bullseye @ 1.110 I went with bullseye because I wanted to start at a pretty low velocity, and wasnt sure how power pistol would act at that much of a reduced load, anyway.........
from the SR9, avg velocity 803 FPS, cycle and run fine......BUT , they are keyholing into a 6 inch group at 25 feet.
Shooting from a Hi-Point carbine, they shoot a ragged hole at the same distance, no keyholing.......
Will increasing the charge help the keyholing?

JIM

Maybe. I really don't have experience to answer that one. 800fps seems a bit slow. My older Lyman manual 44th edition suggests 3.0 Bullseye as a starting load for that weight boolit. Max load listed is 3.5 grains with a velocity of 960 from a 4 inch barrel. Let us know how this turns out.

[jim8115]

Maybe. I really don't have experience to answer that one. 800fps seems a bit slow. My older Lyman manual 44th edition suggests 3.0 Bullseye as a starting load for that weight boolit. Max load listed is 3.5 grains with a velocity of 960 from a 4 inch barrel. Let us know how this turns out.

If i am going to try for more velocity I will prob go with power Pistol - like you originally suggested :)
maybe somewhere between 4.0- 4.2

[tazman]

Sounds like a plan to me.
I wish we had the same powders. I would be happy to work on it from my end, but I don't have any of the powders you listed.
I have Herco, WSH, Titegroup, Titewad, CFE pistol, Trail Boss, and AA7.
I doubt Titewad and Trail Boss would be applicable in this situation.
I have used both Herco and AA7 with the heavy boolits with good results.

[jim8115]

Sounds like a plan to me.
I wish we had the same powders. I would be happy to work on it from my end, but I don't have any of the powders you listed.
I have Herco, WSH, Titegroup, Titewad, CFE pistol, Trail Boss, and AA7.
I doubt Titewad and Trail Boss would be applicable in this situation.
I have used both Herco and AA7 with the heavy boolits with good results.
Oh yea, i forgot... I have some CFE pistol

[tazman]

Then I would suggest you start at 3.7-3.8 CFE pistol and work your way up to 4.2 depending on pressure signs and how well the gun shoots.
When I get home from my trip out of town this weekend, I will try the same thing and see how well it works.

[30calflash]

The loads listed on post #12 were from a Taurus/Alberts bullet reloading brochure. 4 pages, no frills but those were the weights recommended by them for lead free accurate shooting in a 9mm pistol. Alberts (Taurus) were a manufacturer of quality swaged lead bullets in the 70's and 80's. They made a good product. The info given worked well with cast also.

The 9mm load specs were: OAL was 1.070", velocity purported to be 870 fps. Lighter bullets were shown but on the edge insofar as leading goes. Recommended for plate and silhouette shooting in the brochure.

[tazman]

The loads listed on post #12 were from a Taurus/Alberts bullet reloading brochure. 4 pages, no frills but those were the weights recommended by them for lead free accurate shooting in a 9mm pistol. Alberts (Taurus) were a manufacturer of quality swaged lead bullets in the 70's and 80's. They made a good product. The info given worked well with cast also.

The 9mm load specs were: OAL was 1.070", velocity purported to be 870 fps. Lighter bullets were shown but on the edge insofar as leading goes. Recommended for plate and silhouette shooting in the brochure.

Thanks for the information. We were not ignoring you. We were trying to work out some way I could work with the same powders that he was using to approximate the same load.
While I don't have that particular boolit(either yours or Jim's), I do have a choice of 158 grain boolits that should approximate the same performance and load characteristics.

[tazman]

Jim - I got some 158 Lee swc boolits loaded in 9mm to try out this weekend. I will be at an indoor range so I can test for function and accuracy. I won't be able to chronograph them until Sunday afternoon at the earliest but will report back as soon as I shoot some of them.
I suspect the cases are swaging down the base of the boolit a bit so I'm not sure how well they will shoot.
Loaded 3.8, 4.0, and 4.2 grains of CFE pistol. OAL is 1.080. There is quite a bit of shoulder showing above the case but it plunks easily. I have a very generous throat on my barrel.
They seem to feed well but I won't know for sure until I fire them. The nose is a very different profile from the Lee 105 and 140 swc that I tried before. It may work much better.

[jim8115]

Jim - I got some 158 Lee swc boolits loaded in 9mm to try out this weekend. I will be at an indoor range so I can test for function and accuracy. I won't be able to chronograph them until Sunday afternoon at the earliest but will report back as soon as I shoot some of them.
I suspect the cases are swaging down the base of the boolit a bit so I'm not sure how well they will shoot.
Loaded 3.8, 4.0, and 4.2 grains of CFE pistol. OAL is 1.080. There is quite a bit of shoulder showing above the case but it plunks easily. I have a very generous throat on my barrel.
They seem to feed well but I won't know for sure until I fire them. The nose is a very different profile from the Lee 105 and 140 swc that I tried before. It may work much better.

Thanks, keep me posted. I will be doing some more testing as soon as I can. We have a very sick dog, and have been tending to him
JIM

[tazman]

I shot the 158 grain semi wadcutters through the 9mm this afternoon. All the loads functioned the pistol. No failures to feed or eject.There were no signs of over pressure from any of the loads. Recoil and flash were mild.
Accuracy was relatively poor. Only the 4.2 grain load was acceptably accurate and one of the rounds key-holed.
I believe the bases were getting swaged down from being so far into the case. If I seated them longer they wouldn't chamber properly. Perhaps I need to use a different designed boolit. Perhaps a Lyman 358477 would be better than the Lee tc design I was using. That Lee tc shoots extremely accurately in my revolver though which was what it was designed for..
No chrono results as one is not available at the range I was using.

[jim8115]

Ok, got to do an abbreviated test. Just 3 shot strings across chrono, and a little accuracy test.
158 Zero Swaged Lead HP( .358 ) @ 1.110
4.1 Power pistol 878,868,865
4.3 power Pistol 943,877,893
No signs of pressure, all ran fine in the SR9. No more keyholing, and they seem at least as accurate as our 147 JHP's
Ill do more accuracy testing as soon as I can

JIM

[tazman]

Glad they are working for you. The accuracy failed for me. I have other boolits in that weight range that are designed for 9mm and work well so I don't think I will work with them further.

[jim8115]

I may have to scrap this project, though they did work, I am getting leading

[tazman]

Sounds like you may be getting the base of the boolit swaged down too. It just isn't causing inaccuracies or tumbling for you. Gas cutting will do it every time.

[TCLouis]

I started sized the recently cast 358477s and before doing too many realized that I had the .356" die in the 450.

With this plus i link I found tonight, i can see those going down range. Their powder of choice was Blue Dot.

I wish I could say the 9mm is going to be purely a cast boolit gun, but I just bought 2400 coated projies before the great projectile and powder scare so I guess it will be fed mostly coated for a while.

Well at least when I finally have to.

After all I do have that 3 banger 356402 mold that feeds in the 380 and hopefully the 9mm. Really would prefer the TC style from Lee, with the bigger meplat.

[jim8115]

Ok, I know this is old, but I have been busy...........Loaded some more with 4.2 gr Power pistol , but with COAL of 1.145 instead of 1.110. Shoot fine, accuracy good. Still leading, but not as bad, and only in the last half of barrel. I am thinking of reducing velocity to around 800 FPS. I will probably try csb-1 / NR-485 at around 3.0 grains..... Thoughts?

JIM

[dubber123]

[QUOTE=jim8115;3542517]Ok, I know this is old, but I have been busy...........Loaded some more with 4.2 gr Power pistol , but with COAL of 1.145 instead of 1.110. Shoot fine, accuracy good. Still leading, but not as bad, and only in the last half of barrel. I am thinking of reducing velocity to around 800 FPS. I will probably try csb-1 / NR-485 at around 3.0 grains..... Thoughts?
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What are you running for lube? They may be getting swaged down which is causing your leading, or the lube may be insufficient. I shoot a 150 gr RF in a 3-1/2" barreled 9mm at 960 fps. with 0 leading. They do have a very good lube on them though.

[jim8115]

[QUOTE=jim8115;3542517]Ok, I know this is old, but I have been busy...........Loaded some more with 4.2 gr Power pistol , but with COAL of 1.145 instead of 1.110. Shoot fine, accuracy good. Still leading, but not as bad, and only in the last half of barrel. I am thinking of reducing velocity to around 800 FPS. I will probably try csb-1 / NR-485 at around 3.0 grains..... Thoughts?
************************************************** ************************************************** **********
What are you running for lube? They may be getting swaged down which is causing your leading, or the lube may be insufficient. I shoot a 150 gr RF in a 3-1/2" barreled 9mm at 960 fps. with 0 leading. They do have a very good lube on them though.

They are the zero swaged bullets, some sort of red lube in the grooves