PDA

View Full Version : How I cast bullets



bhp9
02-03-2008, 07:28 AM
Here is how I cast bullets.

Cast bullets not only enable a shooter to shoot more cheaply but enable a shooter to shoot way more rounds out of his pistol or rifle before barrel burn out and action wear out (in auto pistols).

Well made cast bullets are every bit as accurate as the much more expensive jacketed bullets.

In rifles your barrel in most cases will last 3 times as long as compared to shooting full power factory ammo or bore damaging outdated and often unsafe blaster corrosive ammo. You will also get half the recoil and muzzle blast with lower velocity lead bullet reloads.

One of the secrets of shooting cast bullets is never to shoot undersize bullets down the barrel. I usually go at least 1 thousandths oversize and going as much as 3 thousands will in most cases cut leading down to a minimum, if not altogether. Accuracy is not hurt either. Most of the leading takes place from the melting of a bullets sides by gas escaping from around the undersize bullet, not from the base melting, so shooting the proper size bullet is must.

Gas checks do not stop leading but do enhance accuracy in cast rifle bullets as they keep the base of the lead bullet from being distorted and melted. I do not find gas checks necessary in pistol loads unless the velocity goes over 1,000 fps.

When using a bullet mold the first thing you must do is get out all the oil from the mold. This is best done by boiling the mold for at least 30 minutes in hot water over a slow fire with some dish water detergent added. Do not use too much or you will get a film of soap over the mold. Some people simply spray the mold with a degreaser which is faster than boiling it but if the mold has a lot of trapped oil inside it this often does not work. Remember though., that when you store the mold if it is not oiled I can almost guarantee you that it will rust. Just use WD 40 on the mold AFTER IT IS DEAD COLD and then seal it in a plastic bag and put it in an army ammo can that has a sealing gasket in good condition and the mold will never rust. Failure to protect your mold in humid climates will result in immediate rusting.

The next problem you will experience is rounded bullets. This comes from too cold a mold. Its best to put the mold on top of the pot while the metal is melting so that the mold will heat up to operating temperature and be ready to cast good bullets immediately.

For making really good bullets follow the Lyman No. 2 formula as I have found that trying to go cheapie and use straight wheel weights often results in rounded bullets, especially in smaller calibers with multiple grease grooves. Larger bullets with one large grease groove are more forgiving but many times its just harder to see the irregularities with such bullets, but if you look close they are often still there. In the old days wheel weights had some tin in them but like everything else these days everything they make is cheap and most of today’s wheel weights have not a trace of tin in them. Tin is necessary to insure the complete fill out of the bullet when cast.

When casting the first problem you will face is an overheated mold. To continue casting means that the lead will soon start to run out under the spruce plate causing the plate to cock and it will in turn damaged the top of the mold. The vent holes will also begin to plug up which will result in bullets that will not fill out. I generally put a wet shop rag down and simply turn over the mold and press the sprue plate to it to cool it down. When the mold really gets hot you have two choices, you can take break and quit casting (not practical when you are pressed for time or casting quickly) result to drastic measures. So what do you do? Hold on to your hat you are going to suffer a massive coronary when you read this. I take a plastic 1 gallon milk jug and cut off the top and fill it full of very, very hot tap water. I then take the mold with the hot bullet still in it and dip the mold quickly in and out of the water. Not done quickly the mold will cool down too much resulting in you having to cast a lot of bullets to get it back up to operating temperature. I have never warped a mold as long as the water was hot in the plastic jug and it will get hotter the more you dip the mold in it.

A WORD OF WARNING, DANGER, DANGER, DANGER, NEVER GET EVEN A DROP OF WATER IN THE MOLTED MELTAL OF THE CASTING POT OR YOU WILL SEE AN EXPLOSION BIGGER THAN THE BOMB THAT WENT OFF AT HIROSHIMA. ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES AND FULL LENGTH TO THE ELBOW WELDING GLOVES WHEN CASTING BULLETS AS ANY MOISTURE, EVEN NATURAL MOISTURE FORMING ON THE LEAD DIPPER USED FOR MIXING WILL CAUSE A MINI EXPLOSION.

Always cast with adequate ventilation, which usually means outside as it takes a powerful vent fan to get rid of lead fumes inside say a basement. I do my casting out in the garage with two doors open or cracked and I wear a painters rubber mask with filters that are made to protect one against lead fumes. MSA is a good company to get this equipment from.

Always make sure your sprue plate is smooth as a babies butt on the top or you will get sprue sticking to the plate. Many newer Lyman molds need the machine marks polished out of the plate and the sprue holes. Like everything else these days there is no such thing anymore as quality workmanship.

For rifle bullets I generally use straight Linotype metal unless the velocity is under 1,000 fps. You can push rifle bullets easily up to 1,900 fps with a gas check and with straight Linotype metal or the equivalent mix. For this velocity use a medium burning powder. IMR 4895 and IMR 4198 which are very good powders for cast bullet rifle loads in the 1,500 to 1,900 fps. Range.

I have found that pillow stuffing (usually about 1 grain) used as a filler, will eliminate hang fires and reduce the variation in shot to shot velocity by as much as 100 fps. I have had some loads vary only 5 fps when using the pillow stuffing which is outstanding.



Cast bullets not only enable you to shoot cheaply but are way more accurate than store bought cast bullets and enable you to make ammo for some of the obsolete calibers that finding ammo for is often very difficult and expensive. Example making 8x57 “J bore” bullets that are smaller in diameter than the standard 8x57 “JS” bore (standard German military caliber). You gun will last longer with cast bullets and your recoil will be much less which makes lots of shooting way more enjoyable and much cheaper too.

44man
02-03-2008, 09:16 AM
Sounds good except for one thing! :confused: I would never store a mold with WD-40 on it. The stuff will dry and can be the devil to remove. It also is one of the poorest rust preventatives ever made. I used it on my machinery in the garage long ago, bandsaw base, welder cover metal and radial saw base. These were painted parts. I would clean the dust off with a rag sprayed with WD-40. Every single item rusted very badly. I started to spray the stuff on the parts and the rust just kept getting worse.
I made the mistake of spraying a cast iron table saw once and the rust never did come off all the way. I had to use a course Scotch Brite pad on a grinder but you can still see where it rusted.
I keep my molds coated with Rapine mold prep, seems to keep them like new.

sundog
02-03-2008, 10:03 AM
bhp9, you seem to have this casting thing down to a fine art. How long you been at it?

bullshot
02-03-2008, 10:10 AM
I've been told WD_40 is a moisture absorber.

JSnover
02-03-2008, 10:18 AM
It's supposed to be a displacer, at least with water in liquid form. I (like a lot of others) have had really bad luck with it keeping moisture from finding it's way into my equipment. In my opinion WD-40 is a short-term fix: Once the problem is solved, clean that stuff out and use a better product for protection/lubrication.

38 Super Auto
02-03-2008, 10:38 AM
I do not find gas checks necessary in pistol loads unless the velocity goes over 1,000 fps

Good summary bhp9. I shoot pistol bullets in the 1350-1450fps range with no leading issues. I am sizing 1 mil over groove diameter using water dropped boolits at about 15-18 BHN. There are many factors. I agree with sizing 1-2mils over groove diameter.

Have you tried brake cleaner for degreasing molds? The stuff I have is tetrachloroethylene. I smells like trichloroethylene - the stuff we formerly used in the plant to remove flux from alumina substrates. Tetrachloroethylene is used as dry-cleaning fluid and for degreasing.

It's quick and cheap.

lathesmith
02-03-2008, 10:39 AM
Remember, part of WD40's "secret" formula is alcohol and vegetable oil. The alcohol has a short-term drying effect, and the veg oil is a decent short-term lub/cleaner. Beyond short-term, though, we all know what bad effects these two things have on bare metal. I use WD40 in the garage as a cleaner, and occasionally as a cutting lube, but NEVER as a long- or even short-term rust preventative. It just dont work for this-- in fact, it does the opposite.
lathesmith

TCFAN
02-03-2008, 11:43 AM
Sounds good except for one thing! :confused: I would never store a mold with WD-40 on it. The stuff will dry and can be the devil to remove. It also is one of the poorest rust preventatives ever made. I used it on my machinery in the garage long ago, bandsaw base, welder cover metal and radial saw base. These were painted parts. I would clean the dust off with a rag sprayed with WD-40. Every single item rusted very badly. I started to spray the stuff on the parts and the rust just kept getting worse.
I made the mistake of spraying a cast iron table saw once and the rust never did come off all the way. I had to use a course Scotch Brite pad on a grinder but you can still see where it rusted.
I keep my molds coated with Rapine mold prep, seems to keep them like new.



I guess I am the exception to the rule. I have used WD-40 for years and have never had any rust on any of my moulds.That being said, after joining here and reading all the bad things being said about WD-40 I have quit using it....

I also used the boil in water and dish soap method to remove the Wd-40.Never had a problem just to slow. Then I read about brake cleaner and tried some cheap Wal-Mart brake cleaner and it works great and is very fast...Terry

mroliver77
02-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Sundog.....:)
J

Maven
02-03-2008, 02:12 PM
bhp9's post should be made a "sticky" or required reading at the very least.

mooman76
02-03-2008, 03:31 PM
Yes I enjoyed it very much. Good read. I agree with most all of it but I don't think I want to dip my moulds into water. If it works, great but I don't have a problem with moulds getting too hot either!

Wicky
02-03-2008, 05:44 PM
I use WD-40 as well - the secret is in the plastic bag - stops too much drying out. Never had a mould rust when treated with WD-40 and dropped in a bag. Inox is good stuff to - bit better than WD-40.:-D

snuffy
02-03-2008, 06:26 PM
Always cast with adequate ventilation, which usually means outside as it takes a powerful vent fan to get rid of lead fumes inside say a basement. I do my casting out in the garage with two doors open or cracked and I wear a painters rubber mask with filters that are made to protect one against lead fumes. MSA is a good company to get this equipment from.

There are no fumes associated with melting lead in our casting furnaces. Lead HAS to boil to produce fumes, our furnaces cannot boil lead.

Casting outside in Wisconsin would leave me with about 20 good days a year!:([smilie=1: The rest would either be to damn hot or cold, it's about 28 right now, too cold to be outside! I cast in the winter, inside a small bedroom with no,(zero), ventilation. I just had my lead blood level tested, it was 5.0!

As far as WD-40 goes, it's the worst stuff ever made. I used to work in a gunshop, cleaning guns that have had that crap sprayed in again and again, I've had to soak guns for days in harsh solvent to get it off. The ONLY thing wrong with them was a build up of hardened WD-40.

I just bought some Frankford arsenal bullet mold cleaner,(midway #544259). It smells like gun scrubber, I haven't tried it yet, but it should work as advertised.

John Boy
02-03-2008, 09:23 PM
http://www.6mmbr.com/i/Reader%20Photos/Rust_Test_LongTerm_640.jpg
A picture is worth a 1000 words!

John Boy
02-03-2008, 09:32 PM
Well made cast bullets are every bit as accurate as the much more expensive jacketed bullets.
BHP ... a very true statement! And here's some evidence that they are:
http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9786&highlight=homer ... BTW, that smoke is Black Powder :-D

bhp9
02-04-2008, 07:55 AM
I would agree that in most cases wd40 will not protect against rust UNLESS YOU KEEP THE WD40 FROM EVAPORATING OFF THE METAL WHICH IS EASILY DONE BY PUTTING THE MOLD IN A PLASTIC BAG.

Thats all there is to it and WD is easily removed with carburator cleaner or by boiling in hot water and soap.

Just never ever put any lube of any kind on a hot mold as it will suck up the lube and you will go nuts trying to get the oil out of it.

Wayne Smith
02-04-2008, 09:09 AM
http://www.6mmbr.com/i/Reader%20Photos/Rust_Test_LongTerm_640.jpg
A picture is worth a 1000 words!

What is Eezox and where can I get some??

Dross
02-04-2008, 09:33 AM
http://www.eezox.com/gun-care.html

I'm sold!

Ohio Rusty
02-04-2008, 10:02 AM
Another good gun lube and preservative is Slip 2000. I use that on my pistols with no worries about rust. I pocket carry my pistol everyday, and moisture from the body is a concern.
Ohio Rusty

Ricochet
02-04-2008, 11:50 AM
A few years ago I looked up WD40's MSDS. All it said it had in it then was light mineral oil and hydroformed kerosene.

felix
02-04-2008, 12:11 PM
WD40 is used by the gallons in car detail shops to spray out the water (after steam cleaning) from exposed electrical stuff, like distributor caps. Would also be good to use for same purpose in taking care of BP guns (or WP corrosive ammo use) after water cleaning. But, for guns, the WD40 has to chased out by a good rust preventive oil. For example, WD40 for getting rid of the water; EEzox (or other) for getting rid of the WD40. ... felix