My Lee 4-20 let me down

[Ricochet]

I guess I can't really complain, because my Lee 4-20 has served me well for, I don't know, 25 years or so. It's always been prone to start dribbling out of the bottom spout, but it would always stop with a bit of jiggling of the valve rod, applying a little pressure or tapping the top of the rod. Tonight I was getting ready to cast a big run of NuJudge and Fat Thirty boolits and had the pot completely full. As the last of the ingots was sinking in, I ran upstairs just for a minute to put out the cat food. When I got back to the basement I smelled scorching, and heard sizzling and popping noises from the direction of the pot. Not good. I found it running a full stream out of the bottom nozzle. About 2/3 of the pot had run out, overflowed the little Lee ingot mould under it and run all over the casting bench and off onto things below the top. Jiggling the rod and giving it a tap stopped the leakage. I got most of the lead cleaned up, in the process having to use a hammer, chisel and torch to free the big blob of lead that had formed around a support post. Got it all eventually back into the pot, melted and skimmed, ready to cast. The spout was clogged. Shoot. I pulled the solidified lead out of the nozzle and went across the room to get a piece of wire to poke up the spout and dislodge whatever debris must have gotten into it. Before I got back, it cut loose with a full stream again. This time it would not stop with anything I tried. I didn't have anything handy to catch it, at least that I thought of at the time. (I can think of a couple of things now that I could have grabbed.) It drained completely. I've got a huge mass of metal around the base of the pot, on my badly scorched desk top, and it's anchored much more solidly around the support post now. So much for my weekend casting and loading plans. I guess in the morning I'll get the mess broken up, take out the valve rod and look at the seat and see if there's anything I can do to repair it. The pot's still perfectly fine except for the pour valve.

[Ricochet]

Looks at a glance like the bottom end of the valve rod must have broken off. It's not reaching the bottom of the pot. I'm going to bed and will deal with it tomorrow.

[Beagle333]

Broken down by years.... you really got good mileage per buck out of it! Fortunately parts are cheap too.

https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-20-pot-valvespout-el3451.html
20# pot spout.... 3-1/2 bucks.


https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-valve-rod-el3427.html
Valve rod.. 3 bucks.

https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-pot-20lb-standard-el3474.html
Even a whole new bucket.... 17 bucks. :D

https://fsreloading.com/parts.php?product=90947
Quick link to any other parts you might want^^

[Garyshome]

What time is the funeral?

[el34]

Beagle you left off the link for a new table top.

[Ricochet]

Might be able to save it with surgery. The table top's toast(ed). but it'll still work. Thanks for the links!

[el34]

Might be able to save it with surgery. The table top's toast(ed). but it'll still work. Thanks for the links!

Sorry to hear about the whole deal. Happening twice in a row would be pretty traumatic, at least at the time.

Many moons ago I sat mine on 2x4's on their side to jack it up to eye level, and the idiot casting engineer (me) tipped it over with a full load. And on a plastic folding table. Big big hole.

[dikman]

I reckon 25 years is pretty darn good by any standards! The problem is you left it alone, it obviously didn't like that :lol:.

[Blanco]

My much newer version did me the same way.
Changes I made ...Covered the top of my casting bench with Hardyboard/Backerboard/cement board
I elevated mine on bricks to bring it to eye level.
Found an old lazy Susan my wife was tossing out.
Got a 6" deep pan to put the Lee pot in.
When I get the chance I clean the spout by heating it with my MAPP torch and use the copper Chore Boy that I now have no other use for because I now powder coat.

[NavyVet1959]

I used to keep my casting pot on a cookie sheet that had raised sides. Unfortunately, it was tin coated, so the molten lead stuck to it VERY we'll when it did the same as your pot did. I ended up destroying the cookie sheet during the lead removal. These days, I use larger piece of steel on top of my casting table and put the casting pot on it. It acts as a pretty good heat sink, so putting hot ingots on it does not burn the underlying table.

[Ricochet]

Y'all have some good ideas. A pan with a raised edge would have kept it from spreading.

[454PB]

I've learned to never EVER walk away from a heating lead pot.

My oldest (I have 3) Lee pot is approaching 40 years old and though ugly looking, still works just fine.

[Ricochet]

Well, in the light of day after I used a torch to disengage the huge blob of lead from the base, it's not so bad. The spout had filled up with crud. The valve rod had disengaged from the screw head that anchors it to the handle and slid up. It just needed it's quarter century cleanout. How in the world does all of that powdery dirt and rust cling to the bottom and sides of the pot? Looks like it would float up in the molten lead to be skimmed off of the top. Anyway, in a while I'll be pouring lead again, no parts or pots replaced! I have the table top to remind me that Lee doesn't like to be left alone.

[NavyVet1959]

After it happened to me that one time, I learned to either empty my casting pot when I finished for the day or toss a couple of cold ingots in it to cool everything down to the point where it was solid and could not possibly leak. I also have a small stainless steel bowl that I picked up for $1 at the Goodwill store that is the perfect size to put underneath it to catch a runaway stream of lead from the nozzle. It's large enough to hold the entire pot if necessary, so I should not end up having to spend time getting solidified lead off of the casting pot stand. For those times when I don't have it there, there's the large piece of steel (about 3'x3') that I have under it all. If you don't have a piece of steel that size, a couple of large pieces of ceramic tile would probably also work.

[NavyVet1959]

Even without a raised edge, a piece of steel helps if it is large enough that it acts as enough of a heat sink that the lead will solidify before it can flow past the edge. My next plan it to weld or braze a perimeter of 1/2" square tubing or bar around my piece of steel so that it would act as a very heavy duty cookie sheet type pan. Angle iron would also work, but welding supply bin has more 1/2" square in it than angle iron.

[Smoke4320]

I reckon 25 years is pretty darn good by any standards! The problem is you left it alone, it obviously didn't like that :lol:.

Female POT ? could not stand being left alone so it threw a hissy fit

[Bzcraig]

Same thing happened to me once but my pot was only 2 years old at the time. After cleaning up the mess I started keeping a cookie sheet under it.

[Beagle333]

How in the world does all of that powdery dirt and rust cling to the bottom and sides of the pot? Looks like it would float up in the molten lead to be skimmed off of the top.

Beats me. I just drained my pot after many refills and I usually only empty it halfway before refilling, and found at least a tablespoon of the powder and rust that I dumped out after the lead was gone. :confused:

[dikman]

I've found the same thing when smelting scrap - doesn't matter how much I flux, or what I use, there's always some fine powdery gunk left in the bottom!

Glad yours was an "easy" fix, Ricochet.

[NavyVet1959]

I've found the same thing when smelting scrap - doesn't matter how much I flux, or what I use, there's always some fine powdery gunk left in the bottom!


But the question is why doesn't it float since it is lighter than the lead? I'm thinking that it is some sort of capillary action maybe. Maybe something like when a boot is so stuck in mud that it will slip off your foot before you could pull it out? Does this also happen on gas heated pots? If not, maybe a weak magnetic field?

[Ricochet]

Possibly an electrostatic phenomenon? Don't know. I finished cleaning the pot like my wife does the coffee maker, with boiling water & white vinegar. Got it really clean! The effluent is of course toxic. I got all of the lead back in it and cast 300+ Boolits without a hitch!

[500MAG]

You use one long enough and it will happen. I have kept a raised edge pan bellow my pot since the first time it happened to me. I have kept the pan there even though I switched to the Pro-melt. You never know when something can cut loose.

[Ricochet]

Thinking more about the dirt, it doesn't seem to be wetted by molten lead. I think that's the thing, it would have to be "washed" loose by the lead before it could float up. Instead it clings to the bottom and sides, and the lead doesn't penetrate into it. Probably a good thing it doesn't easily get suspended in lead.

[454PB]

I just use plain water on mine. Fill it about 2/3 full, plug it in, and as soon as I see the water begin to boil, I unplug the pot. Once it's cool, I use a wire brush (the kind that are like a large toothbrush) and scrub the pot interior with the water still contained.

I do this every 5000 boolits or so. I also remove the metering rod and clean the seat with dental picks and the rod with emery cloth.

[Ricochet]

I don't have dental picks, but running a piece of wound guitar string in and out of the spout really opened it up.

[NavyVet1959]

For my pot, a 1/16" diameter drill bit was perfect to clean it out.

[VHoward]

You use one long enough and it will happen. I have kept a raised edge pan bellow my pot since the first time it happened to me. I have kept the pan there even though I switched to the Pro-melt. You never know when something can cut loose.
I had this happen to me once on my promelt. I put a spring in with the adjustment screw that is used to adjust the flow. It keeps a positive pressure downward on the valve. I haveen't noticed any powder or rust buildup in my promelt, but I did see it happen on my 10 pound lee production pot IV that I had.

[srtolly]

I have a 10# Lee bottom poor pot that was given to me used. No idea when or if It's ever been cleaned out. I've casted a few thousand rounds with it. Guess I better figure out how to empty it and get it cleaned. I'll be keeping something under it from now on too.
Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge.

[HITEK REDNEK]

I empty mine at the end of every casting session, & I always have that powdery residue & rust???
I also take my rod out & emery cloth it about every 2-3 sessions along with doing my best to clean the pour spout hole & I still have drips. But for the money I'm completely ok with it.
Ricochet,
Glad nothing got damaged other then the desk top & as you mentioned it'll be a reminder to you.

Eric

[kbstenberg]

Just a suggestion. With the pot empty and cold. put a small dab of valve grinding paste on the end of the valve stem and in the hole. Spin the stem with a drill for several seconds. Do this several times when you drain the pot. For ME it made the valve stem seat better in the valve outlet. In just a couple of attempts all of my dripping stooped. Kevin

[HITEK REDNEK]

kbstenberg,
That is a great idea, I've never thought about doing that. Some automotive swirl removing waxes will work too I bet, just because they to have a small amount of abrasiveness in them.

Eric

[Ricochet]

I did attempt to burnish it by simply turning the rod with a screwdriver, dry while holding some pressure on it.

[twc1964]

My lee 4-20 did something similar except it was the first time it was ever fired up. Put ingots in it along with a bit of antimony and pewter, ran in to use the mens room and came back to a 20lb pile of lead stuck to my blactop garage floor! Its still there looking like a silver cow patty. Maybe i will try to pry it up along with a chunk of my floor. Lol