Is there any .45 RN mold with a crimp groove?

[jayjay1]

Am looking for a mold for a S&W 625 revolver in .45 ACP.

Using this revolver in IPSC, I want to have bullets where I can lay the case mouth flat into a groove, so that feeding the baby would be easier (faster).

Any suggestions for a RN mold in the 185 to 230gr. area?

[petroid]

I don't understand. 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. It can't be crimped flush with the bullet. A taper crimp is used and no crimp groove is needed.

[Beesdad]

Am looking for a mold for a S&W 625 revolver in .45 ACP.

Using this revolver in IPSC, I want to have bullets where I can lay the case mouth flat into a groove, so that feeding the baby would be easier (faster).

Any suggestions for a RN mold in the 185 to 230gr. area?

Are you using moon clips?

[Love Life]

He will probably be using moon clips. Honestly, a properly applied taper crimp of .468-.470 will get you what you want. If you really want fast and easy feeding, get the chambers chamfered. A very worthwhile upgrade.

[Larry Gibson]

Look at the Lee TL452-230-2R. You can crimp in the front lube groove.

Also consider 2 "cowboy" bullets; the Lee 452-200-RF and the RCBS 45-225-CAV with a TC nose. Both have crimp grooves.

Larry Gibson

[azrednek]

Are you using ACP or Auto Rim brass??

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/crimp-1.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/crimp-1.gif.html)

[petroid]

Oh yeah I guess moon clips will work but unless they are machined perfectly couldn't you still get headspace problems if you had a heavy roll crimp?

[Char-Gar]

I have a 625 and taper crimped loads for my 1911 autopistols loaded in moon clips drop in lightening fast without any fuss or muss.

[jayjay1]

Are you using moon clips?

Yessir!

[jayjay1]

He will probably be using moon clips. Honestly, a properly applied taper crimp of .468-.470 will get you what you want. If you really want fast and easy feeding, get the chambers chamfered. A very worthwhile upgrade.

Good advice!

Thank you.

[jayjay1]

Are you using ACP or Auto Rim brass??

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/dnisbet/crimp-1.gif (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/dnisbet/media/crimp-1.gif.html)

ACP with moon clips.

[jayjay1]

Oh yeah I guess moon clips will work but unless they are machined perfectly couldn't you still get headspace problems if you had a heavy roll crimp?

Nosir, because the distance from the firing pin to the primers is fixed through the pins.

It´s just all about feeding without any stucks or something.

[jayjay1]

I have a 625 and taper crimped loads for my 1911 autopistols loaded in moon clips drop in lightening fast without any fuss or muss.

Having used 230gr. factory RN from Geco with the clips, didn´t work really well, had a lot of stucks on the case mouthes.

So I got this idea, RN of course and smaller crimped cases for flawlessly feeding....
:oops:

[jayjay1]

Look at the Lee TL452-230-2R. You can crimp in the front lube groove.

...
Larry Gibson

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/517501/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-tl452-230-2r-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-230-grain-tumble-lube-2-ogive-radius

This one, a real RN, looks interesting.

But just asking, is it really possible to crimp in this small grooves without damaging the boolit?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I recently loaded up some Lee 452-255 SWC, specifically for the 625.
I taper crimped into the crimp groove.
the test loads (in moon clips) slide in nicely...compared to some ammo I had loaded last year, that I brought along to just blast up and make some empty cases.

[Char-Gar]

Having used 230gr. factory RN from Geco with the clips, didn´t work really well, had a lot of stucks on the case mouthes.

So I got this idea, RN of course and smaller crimped cases for flawlessly feeding....
:oops:

I have no idea about Geco ammo, but WW (USGI), W-W commercial and Federal commercial 230 grain RN ball ammo does not hang up on my 625.

I would suggest you try more than one brand before reaching a conclusion you need to roll crimp your ammo into a groove. To little data for such a conclusion.

[azrednek]

ACP with moon clips.

You do not necessarily need a crimp groove. The castings in my picture, the one on the left and the other top right with a roll crimp are crimped into the top lube groove. I simply wipe off any excess lube that may ooze out. There is still plenty of lube in the bottom groove and a slight amount in the groove I crimped the brass into. The bottom groove alone provides enough at 45 auto and Colt velocities.

If you opt for a roll crimp on your ACP brass using moon clips. Make dam sure you do not use the roll crimped hand loads in an auto loader or it could easily lead to excessive pressure from improper head spacing. Segregate and clearly mark the roll crimped loads to prevent accidently loading into an auto pistol.

I love the ease and speed of using moon clips in my 45 ACP revolvers but I get the best shot to shot accuracy using the near impossible to currently find Auto Rim brass. I mark my roll crimped ACP loads by covering the headstamp with a marking pen. I'm also certain to box separately from the taper crimped ammo for my 1911.


Are you having problems with the bullets moving out and forward in unfired loads from recoil??

[jayjay1]

Well, I will coat those bullets, so lube is no problem.

In my pistols I´m only using SWC, so that should work.

I have never seen 45 AutoRim, but the goal is to shoot in IPSC, so the clips are the way to go.
I don´t want to crimp them, because of moving bullets in the brass, I want to have a better feeding into the cylinder.

[wallenba]

Yep, there is. I use this in my S&W 625 over 4.9 grs of Titegroup. 3.7 grains of Clays was more accurate and less smokey. The RF on moon clips drops very nicely into the cylinder. Not as accurate as 200 SWC though.. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/789762/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-452-200-rf-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-200-grain-flat-nose?cm_vc=ProductFinding

I like the RF because it punches a cleaner hole in paper than a RN.

[9.3X62AL]

Lyman #452423, designed as a Keith SWC for 45 Auto Rim. Has a deep crimp groove. Some of the semi-custom mouldmakers here might have a clone design, it has been out-of-print with Lyman for over 20 years. Nominal weight was 238 grains in No. 2 alloy.

If I re-start with a 45 ACP revolver, I will use Auto-Rim brass exclusively. Clips are a PITA, and HKS still makes speed-loaders to fit N-frame S&Ws chambered in 45 Auto Rim. They work very well.

[jayjay1]

Well, using the brass in IPSC matches means, that it is all gone.

The rim brass might be a little bit expenisve for that, not?

[azrednek]

Well, using the brass in IPSC matches means, that it is all gone.

The rim brass might be a little bit expenisve for that, not?

Agree 100%, not only expensive but hard to find. Starline told me several years ago they only gear up and produce it once per year but it could change for better or worse depending on demand and how fast the last production run sells out. I haven't seen Remington brand bulk AR brass for sale for years. I can't recall the last time I saw Remington 45AR ammo for sale. Fired 45ACP seems to be abundant in my neck of the woods but I'm not sure if it is legal to ship it out of the country to Germany.

[tward]

Looks like Graf and sons has 45 AR brass in stock. Tim

[9.3X62AL]

Your have to adapt to the conditions you shoot under, certainly. One of the "adaptations" I was obliged to make was to cease shooting at Angeles Shooting Ranges north of L.A., since a couple range staffers felt the need to police my 45 ACP brass and would not cease doing so after being requested to desist. I made mention of this habit of theirs to the office staff, and got no traction whatsoever--I was informed it was a "safety violation". 20-25 pieces of brass? I asked to have my property returned by the "safety monitor", to no avail. In light of the long drive and costly admission fee, I elected to shoot at other venues where staff was less larcenous, or non-existent. The desert works well for that.

[Fluxed]

If you're shooting in IPSC is anything like USPSA revolver shooting, you will want round nose bullets in moon clips. If you cast your own bullets, use a 230 round nose and once you have established the seating depth use a taper crimp die to crimp just as you would for an auto pistol. As offered earlier in this thread, its that simple.

The other advice as to Auto Rim brass, speedloaders and SWC bullets will not work. Look on youtube for some Jerry Miculek videos.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jerry+miculek+revolver

[Texasflyboy]

Hensley & Gibbs Design #16:

#16 - .45 Auto Rim "1917 Revolver". 230 grains. One grease groove, one crimp groove, rounded nose.

117573

117574

[Love Life]

I shot my 25-2 today with RN boolits in moon lips. I have chamfered chambers and reloads were quite fast.

[jayjay1]

....in moon lips....

:mrgreen:


Back to be serious (sorry, but I had to), chamfering is next thing I will do.

[jayjay1]

Hensley & Gibbs Design #16:

#16 - .45 Auto Rim "1917 Revolver". 230 grains. One grease groove, one crimp groove, rounded nose.


Yeah, that´s exactly what I´ve meant.

Round nose, heavy and a crimp groove, so that you can crimp in the case mouth.

In my imagination (without experience) they should drop in like water, not?

But where can I get such a mold???

[9.3X62AL]

The other advice as to Auto Rim brass, speedloaders and SWC bullets will not work.

Disagree whole-heartedly, but then again I'm not a gun gamer. I use my firearms in the real world, and HKS loaders have worked very reliably for me since 1977, to include real gunfights.

[Bullwolf]

Yeah, that´s exactly what I´ve meant.

Round nose, heavy and a crimp groove, so that you can crimp in the case mouth.

In my imagination (without experience) they should drop in like water, not?

But where can I get such a mold???

You could probably get a current copy of the #16 or use the 616 from Ballisticast. I see something very similar on page 6 for 45 autorim. http://www.ballisti-cast.com/?page_id=71

My suggestion though would be to talk NOE for a custom mould, or one of our other fine mould makers if you want a 230 round nose with a lube groove and a crimp groove that will cast perfectly right from the start.

Or you could haunt auction sites until you found an original H&G. #16.

I'm sure there's a few other options as well. Someone will probably chime in here soon with a couple more. This is a great time to be a boolit caster, with lots of custom mould availability options.



- Bullwolf

[jayjay1]

I use my firearms in the real world, and HKS loaders have worked very reliably for me since 1977, to include real gunfights.

Using cast boolits in which gunfights?

Do I get something wrong or so?

If so, maybe because I´m not an English native person, but I´m asking me honestly what you are talking about.
Sorry.

[jayjay1]

You could probably get a current copy of the #16 or use the 616 from Ballisticast.

Yes, this one looks like it would fit my requirements.

Only for the books:
I don´t need a lube groove, will coat them.

[Fluxed]

Disagree whole-heartedly, but then again I'm not a gun gamer. I use my firearms in the real world, and HKS loaders have worked very reliably for me since 1977, to include real gunfights.

OP is asking about gun games (IPSC) and that's the only reason I wrote what I wrote.
I agree with you about real world use.

[Love Life]

Disagree whole-heartedly, but then again I'm not a gun gamer. I use my firearms in the real world, and HKS loaders have worked very reliably for me since 1977, to include real gunfights.

I've never used my revolvers for a gun fight, but I have done a fast dump and reload using 358429 on a critter issue and reloaded with a speed loader. I had no issues as I must have used a ton of force to get that reload in the cylinders. I agree 100% with Al!!

[9.3X62AL]

No cast bullets in any gunfights, those were dealt with using factory ammo (JHPs). And HKS loaders, when wheelguns were the coin of the realm.

I still have a 686 x 4" "on paper" with my agency. I practice pretty diligently with it and my other carry critters. There are elements of my former career field that prompt frequent firing.

[Texasflyboy]

Yeah, that´s exactly what I´ve meant.

Round nose, heavy and a crimp groove, so that you can crimp in the case mouth.

In my imagination (without experience) they should drop in like water, not?

But where can I get such a mold???

eBay. The one pictured is the only one I've seen in 15+ years of collecting Hensley & Gibbs moulds. And I own it.

Any modern mould maker (like Tom @ Accurate Moulds) should be able to duplicate it. The design is the standard USGI .45ACP Ball round modified by the addition of a crimp groove.

Tom

[Leon Garfield]

I have a lee 230gr round nose with micro grooves I would sell for $20 shipped of it will help ya.

[jayjay1]

Well, I think shipping costs will be the problem so.
:(

[Char-Gar]

I continue to "not get it". I have been using half moon and moon clips in various Colt and Smith and Wesson DA revolvers in 45 ACP for 50 years and never had anything like the OP describes. Any and every factory load and handload with the proper taper crimp just drop right in. Never has there been any problem with a case mouth hanging up or slowing down a reload.

My guts just scream out the problem is his loading and not the bullet. Now, if a fellow has a desire to have a particular mold than there is no reason for him not to have it, but in this case it is not needed. Wanted yes but needed no.

Below are two pics of two of my revolvers, a 25-2 with a moon clip of Remington Golden Sabers and a moon clip of my 452423 handload. There is also a pic of my 625. I use the 625 to shoot bowling pin matches and a quick reload is required. I have four other DA 45 ACP revolvers, but no need to lard this thread with pics.