Summer project .223 bolt gun

[Patrick L]

For some time I have wanted to build a .223 bolt gun to shoot cast in our local NRA Highpower matches. We shoot a reduced 100 yd course. Since the late 90s I have shot my 03A3 match gun with cast. I was just looking for something different, plus anything that stretches components farther is a good thing.

I considered the Mossberg MVPs, as the AR magazine thing would be ideal for our rapid fire strings, which require a mandatory reload. But, I am really very much wedded to the traditional stripper clip system. Mo's still makes the stripper clip guide blocks for commercial bolt actions, so I decided to go the conventional route. I was really hoping a used Remington 700 might turn up in the LGS's, but it didn't happen. People that have them are keeping them I guess. The only used .223 that I found was a Howa 1500 with a synthetic stock. It even came with rings and bases. I knew Howas were good guns, just not that common (at least around here.) They make the Weatherby Vanguards, and Smith and Wesson marketed them back in the 80s. I figured for $400 I couldn't loose.

This is how it ended up
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/001.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/001.jpg.html)

I mounted a Williams Foolproof for a rear sight
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/007.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/007.jpg.html)

And I jury rigged this mount for a Lyman 17A. I lucked out and found some aluminum rectangular stock the right size in a friend's scrap box. A single 8-40 screw is tapped up into the bottom of the sight dovetail.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/002.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/002.jpg.html)

This was the first version made out of aluminum "L" channel that I added the other side to . Those 3-56 screw hole are tiny to drill and tap!
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/003.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/003.jpg.html)

And this is my best effort to date. 10 grains 2400 with the Mihec NATO boolit. Granted this is scoped off the bench, and this rifle will be shot in position with the irons. Still, I think we are capable.
Sorry about the flier!
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/009.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/009.jpg.html)

I have the stripper clip guide block on order, I expect it any day now. I also think yhe rifle is a bit light for offhand. There's a lot of space under the barrel, I may add some steel wheelweights (finally a use for them. Can't afford to waste the lead ones!) I'll post pictures of some iron sight targets when I get the chance to shoot some.

Not too bad, ya think?

[Scharfschuetze]

Nice summer project. Those hundred yard reduced NM courses of fire are fun and certainly a lot less work than shooting over the course. They used to be popular around here in the winter so that you could shoot under cover in the Northwest winter drizzle.

I have a Winchester .223 calibre Model 70 varmint rifle that is set up to shoot either prairie dogs or the NM course of fire by changing sights and the clip guide out. It also has an accessory rail inleted into the forearm for a hand stop. I bought a front sight base from Champion's Choice that fits over a reduced diameter at the muzzle and that works pretty well to mount a Redfield target front target sight. The rear target sight fits up just like yours, while the clip guide screws onto the rear scope sight base screws holes in the receiver bridge.

At the same time (they were concurrent projects), Larry Gibson built up a .223 Savage 110 target rifle in the same manner and it is a really good shooter after some work on the bedding.

I've never thought about shooting cast boolits through the Winchester due to its 1 in 9 twist. It seems a bit fast for cast and it's definitely too slow for the heavier jacketed bullets for long range, although it shoot the 68 and 69 grain match bullets well. What's the twist on your Howa? I'll watch with interest to see how your project goes.

[Patrick L]

Wow have I been blacklisted or something? I would have thought I'd get a bit more response.

[Petrol & Powder]

I like you're front sight solution. I wonder if it would be practical to silver solder a steel ramp with a dove tail cut to the top of the barrel ?

Looks like you've got a good start !

[kbstenberg]

So you left the barrel, action, stock as is. You just changed the front & rear sight.
I am assuming it has a 8 to 9" twist?

[Larry Gibson]

Considering the matches you shoot are 100 yard reduced matches the cast bullets should be fine. You will want to get really anal about bullet inspection for defects and weight sorting, especially with the smaller .22 cal bullets, for your 600 yard reduced target as the 10 and X rings are very small. The 9 shots would have 10 ring capability but the flyer would have lost you 3 points. Any defect in the cast bullet will not be as forgiving in the smaller .22 cal cast bullets as with a .30 cal cast bullet. I use a desk magnifying glass to sort my cast for defects. If you hold hard you can shoot just about as good in the prone supported as off the bench.

You might also inlet a rail under the fore stock to adjust the sling fore and aft or for a hand stop. Both are well worth it. If not reinforce the front swivel as a tight sling is necessary to hold hard, especially with slower cast bullet loads.

Also the use of cast loads in the standing position particularly require very good "follow through" as barrel time is considerable longer with the cast loads. Weighting the stock will also help as you know.

I've shot a lot of cast through reduced courses over the years and it is very doable and rewarding. You just have to alter the equipment a little and your shooting technique a bit is all.

Larry Gibson

[Patrick L]

I need to check the twist rate with a cleaning rod. I'm guessing 1:9, but will check.

P&P, I have a Williams ramp and I may in fact do that, or just drill and tap a 6-48 hole in the barrel. I did this just to get started fast and to test the potential of the rifle for match use. If I decide I like it the ramp it will be. In fact, I put that exact setup on my father-in-law's Savage, but his gun was already drilled and tapped for the factory plastic front sight ramp.

Larry, I thought I'd shoot the rifle as is next year, and see how the stock does. I figure if it flexes too much, maybe a nice laminated job would be in order, as that would also add some weight to what is a very light rifle.

[Doc Highwall]

Funny you mention this, I have been in contact with Larry as I have just about finished working on my Remington left hand 40X in 223 that has a stripper clip slot milled into it. I just finished milling the Weaver steel rear sight base and Lipski rear sight base to allow the stripper clip slot to be used. I have a Warner LH rear sight with a Anschutz front sight. The barrel is 24" long with a 1-8" twist and I have a 10" bloop tube that I can attach giving either a 30" or 40" sight radius. The 30" sight radius will give .250" or 1/4" per click and the 40" sight radius will give .187" or 3/16" clicks. I already have a hand rail installed and a hand stop. I will be mounting a Leupold MK4 8.5X-25X scope for load development.

I hope to use it for 100 and 200 yard matches my self.

[WILCO]

Wow have I been blacklisted or something? I would have thought I'd get a bit more response.

Just found this thread. Looks good.

[rintinglen]

As my eyeballs keep getting older--dragging the rest of me kicking and screaming along--those little boolits become harder and harder for me to cast. Or rather, I find it harder and harder to pick out the good ones. These days I find that the best I can do starts at 30 caliber and really doesn't get good until somewhere's around 9mm. I like Larry's suggestion, but finding room on my bench is out of the question.
Old stinks--dead stinks worse-heck of a set of choices.

[Bullshop Junior]

For some time I have wanted to build a .223 bolt gun to shoot cast in our local NRA Highpower matches. We shoot a reduced 100 yd course. Since the late 90s I have shot my 03A3 match gun with cast. I was just looking for something different, plus anything that stretches components farther is a good thing.

I considered the Mossberg MVPs, as the AR magazine thing would be ideal for our rapid fire strings, which require a mandatory reload. But, I am really very much wedded to the traditional stripper clip system. Mo's still makes the stripper clip guide blocks for commercial bolt actions, so I decided to go the conventional route. I was really hoping a used Remington 700 might turn up in the LGS's, but it didn't happen. People that have them are keeping them I guess. The only used .223 that I found was a Howa 1500 with a synthetic stock. It even came with rings and bases. I knew Howas were good guns, just not that common (at least around here.) They make the Weatherby Vanguards, and Smith and Wesson marketed them back in the 80s. I figured for $400 I couldn't loose.

This is how it ended up
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/001.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/001.jpg.html)

I mounted a Williams Foolproof for a rear sight
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/007.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/007.jpg.html)

And I jury rigged this mount for a Lyman 17A. I lucked out and found some aluminum rectangular stock the right size in a friend's scrap box. A single 8-40 screw is tapped up into the bottom of the sight dovetail.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/002.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/002.jpg.html)

This was the first version made out of aluminum "L" channel that I added the other side to . Those 3-56 screw hole are tiny to drill and tap!
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/003.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/003.jpg.html)

And this is my best effort to date. 10 grains 2400 with the Mihec NATO boolit. Granted this is scoped off the bench, and this rifle will be shot in position with the irons. Still, I think we are capable.
Sorry about the flier!
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/009.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/009.jpg.html)

I have the stripper clip guide block on order, I expect it any day now. I also think yhe rifle is a bit light for offhand. There's a lot of space under the barrel, I may add some steel wheelweights (finally a use for them. Can't afford to waste the lead ones!) I'll post pictures of some iron sight targets when I get the chance to shoot some.

Not too bad, ya think?

What twist does this rifle have in it? I had a old Remington 788 223 with a 1/14" twist and it was probably one of the most accurate rifles I have ever owned with cast.

[Patrick L]

Sorry this has taken awhile, but the twist is 1:12 according to my "calibrated cleaning rod."

[Bullshop Junior]

It should still do pretty good with cast. Should shoot a heavy bullet. Mine would only stabilize 55gn.

[bruce drake]

Oh you aren't blacklisted! Just that some of us 22 caliber loonies hadn't seen the post yet!

I built a 22-250 for reduced 200 yard NRA matches myself. 1-14" twist and 40gr jacketed pills going downrange at 3000fps means a lot of fun. For cast, I found success with the LEE Bator 55gr FN boolit with this rifle.

I'm glad to see I am not the only one using MiHec's 69gr NATO mold from the first group buy. I love how well that brass mold drops the boolits once its warmed up. I use it in two of my .223Rem AR15s. I even have a recent thread somewhere on this forum regarding my efforts in this endeavor:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?228976-MiHec-s-226-69gr-RN-This-mold-was-supposed-to-have-been-a-227-75gr-but-oh-well!
So here's a little bit of load data to help you in your shooting.

Bruce

[Doc Highwall]

Thanks for the link Bruce Drake as I have that mould.

[Patrick L]

Bruce thanks for the link to your post. I initially bought this mold for my AR (Colt HBAR, 1:9 twist.) I did not get good results with either 4895 or 4320. I do have some 4831, maybe next summer I'll try it.

[Patrick L]

OK guys here's an update. I got to do little more work over my Christmas vacation.

You can't see it, but I added 12 oz of weight to the gun by gluing steel wheel weights (at last a use for them!!) inside the barrel channel. There was a lot of hollow space in there, plenty of room.

I ended up making a stripper clip guide. The owner of a company who made them for years (who shall remain nameless) assured my three times on three separate phone calls that he would get one right out to me. It never happened. In all fairness, I will say he is now elderly and, in his own words, "semi-retired." At least he never charged my credit card.

Anyhow, I used a 1 piece Weaver scope base as the foundation. I cut it and shaped the slot to work with cut down military surplus 5.56 stripper clips. Can't beat the price versus the commercial one I was going to purchase!

Here are a few quick photos. I apologize for the poor quality, I wasn't using the camera I usually use for up close pics:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20003-1.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20003-1.jpg.html)

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20002-1.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20002-1.jpg.html)

All that remains now is to wait for warmer weather to sight in and practice a bit. First match is in April!

[Scharfschuetze]

Lookin' good Pat. With that 1 in 12 twist, it should do pretty well.

[Patrick L]

Hey here's a better picture of the guide

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20006-1.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20006-1.jpg.html)

Here's the clip. I used a 4 40 brass screw that I trimmed and "riveted" on the inside both to secure the inner spring strip and establish a stop depth in the guide

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20001-2.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20001-2.jpg.html)

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20005-1.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/Stripper%20clip%20guide%20005-1.jpg.html)

I cut this one to 5 shot length, but now realize it must be inserted into the guide in one direction only. I can see myself screwing up under the pressure of a match. I think I will make some more that have the screw exactly in the middle so that they can go in in either direction. They will likely then hold 7 or 8 rounds, but I can still load only 5 if I want. Oh sorry about the J bullet dummies, I didn't have any cast loaded up!

[Scharfschuetze]

That's a clever solution Pat. Several years ago I ordered some purpose made stripper clips from either Champion's Choice or Creedmore Armory for my .223 match rifle, but yours look like they will do just as well.

Not noted is your Merritt variable aperture insert in your rear sight. That's a very useful addition.

[Patrick L]

Just an interesting note; I spent the last few days of our NYS blizzard weight sorting some boolits for serious match use this summer. I thought that the Mihec 22 NATO was a 69 grain design. Mine weighed in the 60-61 gr range. Not that I'm complaining, just surprised. My usual alloy is ww plus 2% tin, not exactly a "light" alloy. I always weigh unsized unlubed boolits. Are nominal weights considered to be sized, lubed, and gas checked?

[Screwbolts]

Do you have the first NATO or the "Heavy NATO", I have both and they both run light. Both shot well, I got The ACE Heavy in an 8 cav. and it is much closer to weight.

Ken

[smilin jack]

Bruce,
I read your post, and thanks for the link.

My own efforts with the 5.56x45 with cast started with "slow for the caliber" powders as I expected that I would need the gas to cycle the action, slow launch to be gentler with the cast boolits, etc. I purposely chose the NOE 225-70 as its length appeared to be close to ideal for keeping the GC in the neck or not far below while using all of the magazine length, and having as much weight as possible to enhance pressures. I worked backwards from Reloader 17, Reloader 15, 8208XBR, Benchmark, and then to Reloader 7. While I got acceptable accuracy with the slower powders, I had some issues with unburned powder and didn't want to resort to fillers. 8208XBR gave me some screamer small groups, but chrono data suggested to me that the load density was still too low. Benchmark didn't produce tiny groups, more like 2moa, but was pretty consistent with the charges tried. Reloader 7 still gave full function in the 16" carbine with charges as low as 14gr, but better accuracy as charges increased somewhat. Best loads are running near moa consistently,and without much fuss in loading( 16" 1-9" twist, chrome lined). I do NOT weigh the boolits! I need to revisit Benchmark and increase charges. Likewise, I need to try H322 and AA2015.

If I were to get serious with a boltgun, I would now try Reloader 7 first.

Hi Guys,
Have used Rx7 (about 20 gr) in my Ruger 77 stainless 223Rem and swaged 55gr made from 22LR Rem brass with good groups. Have not tried any cast but would like to get started. Will have to start reading more about which mold.
My 1917 Eddystone likes 192gr cast using H2400. Yep, still have some.
Dave

[BrianL]

Sorry this has taken awhile, but the twist is 1:12 according to my "calibrated cleaning rod."

I'm a bit bummed. I was watching and waiting for this info. I have a Winchester 70 Varmint that was re-barreled with a 1-8" Krieger for full distance so I was thinking that I would try this if you were at 1-9"

[Patrick L]

UPDATE

Hey guys! Just wanted to let you know I shot last month's High Power match with the new girl. Hit 536 out of a possible 600, shooting the Mihec NATO boolit over 10 gr 2400. She's a keeper!

[Scharfschuetze]

Thanks for the updat Pat. I think that your project is a success!

[Patrick L]

Just thought I'd update you all again. I did OK with the new gun this year, my average was a 527 and that was good enough to place third Master in the league. Actually, I'm surprised that score even put me in Master, in years past I likely would have won Expert class with that, but our enrollments are down.

[Patrick L]

Here's another update. Started the Highpower season well today, shot a pair of 534s (we shoot the 600 point reduced course.) Kind of odd that I shot the exact same score twice, but I upped my X count by one on the second match (got 6 X's the second time.) Of particular note was my MR31 target on the first match (20 rounds slowfire prone) I hit 188 out of 200 possible. I changed my load to 12 gr IMR 4227 under the Mihec NATO Boolit. I had been shooting 10 gr 2400, but I can't seem to get 2400, and the 4227 shoots just as well.

[Jack Stanley]

Haven't fired the cast .223 in a while but I've used 2400 as my slow powder . I was using 11.5 grains with the RCBS 22-55-SP The load seemed to work well with four different brands of commercial cases . Only downside was the first shot form a cold bore was out of the group . Not a lot , just enough to aggravate me or miss a chuck .

Jack

[Patrick L]

This rifle continues to prove itself a winner. Yesterday I shot a new personal best; 559-6X out of 600 possible. I have never broken 550. Twice I've managed 549s with the old 03A3 match gun.

Here is the SR21, this is two separate 10 round rapid fire prone strings, shot on the same target

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/target%20May%202016%201.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/target%20May%202016%201.jpg.html)

And here is the MR 31, which is 20 rounds slow fire prone

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Howa%201500/target%20May%202016%202.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/patrickl_01/media/Howa%201500/target%20May%202016%202.jpg.html)

I apologize for the pictures not being oriented right side up. Darn new phone, I can't figure it out yet!

These are reduced targets, as we only have a 100 yard range. I am still shooting the Mihec NATO boolit over 12 gr IMR 4227.

I'm liking this! Only problem is, the old 03A3 gives me dirty looks whenever I open the safe now. Think I'll shoot her at the June shoot!

[Lonegun1894]

Excellent project and great shooting!