Looking For A Light .454 Load For My Rossi M92 Lever Gun

[JohnnyFlake]

I'd like some thoughts on a Light .454 Load, for 250/260 gr. JHP & JSP Bullets. I'd like to stay down to about 1300/1400 FPS. I am not sure if 280/300gr would be a better choice.

Any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.

[jmort]

Have not seen you post for a while. What powder(s) do you have/intend to use?

[JohnnyFlake]

Have not seen you post for a while. What powder(s) do you have/intend to use?

Yea, wife was very sick for a long while and other issues as well. Wife passed a short time ago. I am just now getting back into my things.

I have W296, Unique & W231 right now. I can get No.9 and Titegroup as well.

Regards, Johnny

[jmort]

Here is some published data





Wt.
Bullet
Powder Manufacturer
Powder
Charge
Velocity (FPS)


300
Speer UCSP
Hodgdon
H-110
26.5
1328


Remarks: start charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
Hodgdon
H-110
28.5
1452


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
Winchester
W-296
26.0
1298


Remarks: start charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
Winchester
W-296
28.0
1426


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
Accurate
AAC-9
21.5
1218


Remarks: start charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
Accurate
AAC-9
23.5
1349


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
IMR
IMR-4227
25.5
1142


Remarks: start charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
IMR
IMR-4227
27.5
1327


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
Alliant
2400
22.0
1209


Remarks: start charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
Alliant
2400
24.0
1325


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
Vihtavuori
VV-N110
20.0
1220


Remarks: start charge; case: Winchester


300
Speer UCSP
Vihtavuori
VV-N110
22.0
1322


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Winchester


270
Speer SAA
Ramshot
True Blue
11.0
1032


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Ramshot
True Blue
13.0
1178


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Accurate
AAC-5744
21.0
1062


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Accurate
AAC-5744
23.0
1166


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Alliant
Unique
9.0
993


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Alliant
Unique
11.0
1155


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Hodgdon
Titegroup
7.0
960


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Hodgdon
Titegroup
9.0
1135


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Alliant
Power Pistol
9.0
953


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Alliant
Power Pistol
11.0
1114


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Hodgdon
Universal
8.0
906


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Hodgdon
Universal
10.0
1111


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
IMR
Trail Boss
9.0
977


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
IMR
Trail Boss
11.0
1098


Remarks: maximum charge; compressed load; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Vihtavuori
VV-N350
10.0
930


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Vihtavuori
VV-N350
12.0
1087


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Accurate
AAC-7
12.0
933


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Accurate
AAC-7
14.0
1053


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Winchester
W-231
7.0
872


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


270
Speer SAA
Winchester
W-231
9.0
1049


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Alliant
2400
24.0
1422


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Alliant
2400
26.0
1531


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Vihtavuori
VV-N110
23.0
1381


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Vihtavuori
VV-N110
25.0
1499


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
IMR
IMR-4227
27.0
1248


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
IMR
IMR-4227
29.0
1399


Remarks: maximum charge; compressed load; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Accurate
AAC-9
23.0
1323


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Accurate
AAC-9
25.0
1375


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Accurate
AAC-5744
26.0
1225


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Accurate
AAC-5744
28.0
1341


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Ramshot
True Blue
14.0
1164


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Ramshot
True Blue
16.0
1325


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Vihtavuori
VV-N350
13.0
1129


Remarks: start charge; case: Starline


250
Speer Colt GDHP or 260 JHP
Vihtavuori
VV-N350
15.0
1277


Remarks: maximum charge; case: Starline





�2011 PPC, INC. All Rights Reserved. LoadData is registered in the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office

[Tatume]

Downloading the 454 Casull case is a tricky proposition because of the large interior volume. With slow burning powders like AA#9, WC820, H110, W296 you need to have enough powder in the case that the flame from the primer doesn't push the powder away without igniting it. This means that loads will have to be fairly stiff. Recently I worked up a reliable, accurate load using a 265 grain cast bullet and AA#9, and didn't get good results until I hit 1550 fps. Anything less was sporadic in both velocity and accuracy.

On the other hand, I've had good results with a 320 grain cast bullet using Unique at 1100 fps. There are two things going on here. Unique is much easier to ignite, and the longer 320 grain bullet leaves less air space.

To date I have not worked up a load with Unique and the 265 grain bullet, although I intend to do so. I expect it will have to run a bit faster than the longer 320 grain bullet, because the shorter bullet leaves additional airspace.

Some will suggest Dacron filler. My experience is that this is not a "position sensitivity" issue, and the Dacron filler does not help. If initial position were the problem, the filler might work. However, it isn't. The problem is that the primer compresses the powder against the base of the bullet. If a Dacron fluff is in there, it too is compressed. When the bullet is then knocked back out of the barrel, the Dacron and the mass of powder come together.

You might want to check out the thread started by DeanWinchester about using IMR4198 in the 454. This powder may fill the case before velocity gets so high as to be uncomfortable.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?252519-4198-for-454-Casull

Take care, Tom

[Hickory]

I would explore Trailboss® as a powder for reduced loads in your 454.

[Tatume]

P.s., I have also experimented with primers. Neither standard nor magnum pistol primers will reliably ignite full power loads in the 454 Casull. Magnum rifle primers were unnecessary. Standard rifle primers give the best results in my experience. I know that 44Man has had good results with magnum pistol primers, so you may want to try them, but they didn't work for me.

[JohnnyFlake]

I would explore Trailboss® as a powder for reduced loads in your 454.

I have never heard of Trailboss being used in a .454 load. Do you have any data at all on what's be tried?

[JohnnyFlake]

Downloading the 454 Casull case is a tricky proposition because of the large interior volume. With slow burning powders like AA#9, WC820, H110, W296 you need to have enough powder in the case that the flame from the primer doesn't push the powder away without igniting it. This means that loads will have to be fairly stiff. Recently I worked up a reliable, accurate load using a 265 grain cast bullet and AA#9, and didn't get good results until I hit 1550 fps. Anything less was sporadic in both velocity and accuracy.

On the other hand, I've had good results with a 320 grain cast bullet using Unique at 1100 fps. There are two things going on here. Unique is much easier to ignite, and the longer 320 grain bullet leaves less air space.

To date I have not worked up a load with Unique and the 265 grain bullet, although I intend to do so. I expect it will have to run a bit faster than the longer 320 grain bullet, because the shorter bullet leaves additional airspace.

Some will suggest Dacron filler. My experience is that this is not a "position sensitivity" issue, and the Dacron filler does not help. If initial position were the problem, the filler might work. However, it isn't. The problem is that the primer compresses the powder against the base of the bullet. If a Dacron fluff is in there, it too is compressed. When the bullet is then knocked back out of the barrel, the Dacron and the mass of powder come together.

You might want to check out the thread started by DeanWinchester about using IMR4198 in the 454. This powder may fill the case before velocity gets so high as to be uncomfortable.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?252519-4198-for-454-Casull

Take care, Tom

Tom,

I understand what your saying and it does make a lot of sense.

Do you recall your load of Unique to make a 320gr run at 1100 fps?

I am thinking that a similar load, under a 300gr JSP should then run between 1100 & 1200 FPS which would be perfect for me.

Johnny

[dh2]

check out nosler manual the give loads for the cassull using bullets made for the 45lc so they are trying to keep from pushing the bullet up to the speed the .454 Cassull will deliver .

[CGT80]

Trail boss will work great in the 454. I use trail boss in the 460 mag. In the 460 mag, I use 10.0 grains under an MP 270 SAA HP PB boolit and get 1,000 fps. The universal load for trail boss is 70%-100% of case volume that is left after seating the bullet, but don't compress it. Measure to where the bottom of the boolit will be in the case, and that is your max load. I am well below max for my 460. Trail boss seems to work better at less than 100% air space filled.

A5744 will make nice low to medium power loads. It leaves unburned powder, though. I use 38.0 grains of it in the 460 for a mid powered load with a 240 jword and I get 1400 fps. There is data from accurate for lighter loads, for my 460, but trail boss is cheaper and better for that. When I want to go lighter, I just run 45 colt brass with a 230 grain RN PB boolit (for a 45 acp) over 6.5 grains of red dot.

I have not tried any of the less bulky pistol/shotgun powders due to the large case size.

Just reread your post and saw it is a levergun. Trail boss works in any cartridge according to the manufacturer. I have used it in 30-06 under a 150 jword and got a nice light load. It is a high pressure low velocity powder. If you compress it, it may make very high pressure. It probably won't work great in semi auto guns, but it should do fine for a lever gun. I don't know how low you can go without sticking a boolit in a rifle with trailboss. Hopefully the start load will be fine, but my revolver is only an 8 3/8" barrel vs. the longer rifle barrel.

[JohnnyFlake]

Thanks for the info CGT80

[BCRider]

Johnny, first off I'm sorry to read about your wife. My condolences.

You're asking for loads to produce around 1100 fps. Looking at the pistol load data for .45 Colt and extrapolating to your rifle I'd suggest that you're looking at max power .45Colt like performance. A 250gn bullet from a revolver with full power loads is in the high 800's to lower 900's. To my thinking this will translate to up near or just at your requested 1100 fps performance.

But you're hoping to push a 300 or 320 at 1100? That's no slouch of a load! ! ! ! If you were hunting with that load it may be worth considering that it's more than enough to pass stem to stern through a horse! ! ! I was told the same thing about my "lighter" load for .44 mag using a 240gn bullet moving at 1100. So your 300 or 320 will do the same only more of it! ! ! :D

I know that Unique and Tightgroup both do well in cavern like cases with lots of empty space. So I'd suggest using those powders with max power .45Colt loading info. And go up a hair if needed based on matching the load to the slightly bigger case volume.

For example Hodgdon gives more info than Alliant with a lower suggestion as well as an upper limit. From their sometimes hard to find Cowboy Loading Manual the lower end for Tightgroup is 5gns behind a 250gn cast LRNFP which gives 716fps pushed by 7600 CUP for pressure. So 5.2'ish should make up for the bigger volume of the .454Casul casing.

Regardless of how you go I'm thinking that 1100 fps for anything in the 250 to 320 range is going to still be fairly stout. But if you're after an honest 1100fps load that's what you have to do. If you're looking for an honest to gosh light plinking load then I'd suggest you need to consider getting down closer to 900 fps from your rifle.

But while such a load will be "light" compared to the .454 I'd hesitate to call it a all around "light" load. You're still going to know you kicked off something "big enough".... :D

[DougGuy]

I like the trailboss idea. I have downloaded heavy boolits in .45 Colt with 2400 and LilGun into the 75%~85% power band of the Ruger Only loads for this caliber and got very good results. I think they are running about 1150f/s+/- I don't see why these wouldn't work well with the longer boolit.

[BCRider]

I tried some Trail Boss. It's an OK powder. But I'm not a fan of the final cost of using it. First off you don't get much weight in a jar yet they cost as much as most other powders. Secondly it's a "fluffy" powder which means it takes a lot of volume to fill to the load weight. So it doesn't go as far.

[MT Chambers]

One of the benefits of using Trail Boss is that it is near impossible to double charge a case when using light loads.

[bobthenailer]

Although i dont have a 454 rifle , i do have three FA 454 revolvers , i get excellent results in all three with 8.0 to 9.0grs of Tightgroup powder, loaded in 454 cases with small pistol primers , with 260, 275 & 300 gr cast boolets @1,000 to 1,100 fps out of a revolver so in a rifle it may be what you are looking for

[pietro]

.

I'm sorry for your loss, JohnnyFlake, please accept our condolences...........

I would respectfully suggest obtaining .45 Colt brass, and load them to .45 Colt levels, which should serve you well and absolve you of adjusting .454 casa loads with fillers, different powders, etc - I simply just used .45 Colt ammo in my .454, for practice and/or sub-loads, w/o any issues.


.

[JohnnyFlake]

Thanks to all of you! There is a lot of very good info in your responses and I will come up with a load that works for me, with the aid of that info. I will advise when I finally get some data.

Thanks, for the comments regarding the wife. It is appreciated.

[saz]

I use 11grs Unique under the Lee 255 and Rem 7 1/2 primer. It makes little bitty groups at 50 yards, produces zero recoil and will flatten any deer around.

[JohnnyFlake]

I use 11grs Unique under the Lee 255 and Rem 7 1/2 primer. It makes little bitty groups at 50 yards, produces zero recoil and will flatten any deer around.

That sounds like a nice load. Did you ever chronograph it?

[saz]

That sounds like a nice load. Did you ever chronograph it?


Yes, it runs right at 1100fps +\- 12fps. It is a great light load!

[JohnnyFlake]

Yes, it runs right at 1100fps +\- 12fps. It is a great light load!

I love it! That is perfect for what I am looking for. Before I go out shooting again, I'll load up 20 rounds to try.

Thanks

[Nicholas]

I have a Ruger SRH in 454 that I load 250 grain XTPs on front of a charge of Unique that is in the upper end of a 45 colt heavy load range. I believe this XTP is designed for Colt loads. It did fine on a deer.

[Ben]

This is fired out of my 5.5 inch Super Redhawk 454 Casull. Not fired from a rifle, BUT...., I don't know why it wouldn't work well in a rifle. Plenty powerful ! !

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/011_zps7ddcb27a.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/011_zps7ddcb27a.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/012_zps5f60892f.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/012_zps5f60892f.jpg.html)

[Lex]

I use 12 of unique and the rcbs 255gr.it is very accurate and recoil is light.

[JohnnyFlake]

As soon as I have the chance, I am going to put together some 11gr and 12gr loads using 250gr & 300gr Speer JSP bullets and test them out. I appreciate the info!