Basic levergun questions

[DanM]

All my leverguns have been in pistol calibers, and I never even owned a 30-30 or other in a rifle caliber. Well, I traded an SKS for a nice 1948, 336A at the last GSO fun show, and am thinking I did real well. I never shot the SKS, so it will not be missed. Also the SKS was given to me as payment for a job, so no real cash in it. My first question is about neck sizing. Assuming all cases will be fired in the same rifle, is neck sizing recommended for a 30-30 lever rifle? Is this just a try it and see situation, or a real bad idea? Next I would like to find a vintage Lyman 66AL all steel receiver sight that would look period correct on it. I can find plenty for '94 Winchesters, but none so far for the 336. Some say that either will work for both, and that is what I want to be sure about. Is the hole spacing and height the same on the 1894 Winchester and the 336 making the side mount peeps interchangeable? Probably not, or they wouldn't make different model number sights for each, but thought I would make sure. Last, for now, the bottom rear curved tang metal behind the trigger guard is quite proud, and protrudes out of the stock wood about 1/8". I was able to reduce the protrusion by applying some pressure as I tightened the loose tang screw, but it is still not flush with the wood. I have been looking at some 336s on GB, and have seen others like this. Is this something I should worry about? What is the fix for this, or should I just ignore the high metal and have fun? I know pictures are needed, and I will see what I can do about that this weekend. Thanks....DanM

[imashooter2]

Lever actions don't have nearly the closing force as available in a bolt action. You should at least bump the shoulder for easy chambering.

I'm not familiar enough with the sights to opine...

[Gtek]

The fix for that proud metal is a new or used stock that someone did not sand on too much. Being a Marlin Snob myself and in regard to the 336A, nice swap.
If top has not been drilled and finish is still anywhere near nice I would hunt for old wood to replace yours. Can be found from time to time, that is why they call it hunting! There is a set on GB now.

[William Yanda]

Watching this thread with interest. Is lacking the closing force of a bolt action the only consideration behind the recommendation not to neck size for lever action rifles? I'm sure someone here with appropriate credentials will opine.
Bill

[imashooter2]

Yes...

[Scharfschuetze]

I've found the Lyman, Redfield and Williams aperture sights to be interchangeable between the two makes, at least for the Marlin 1894, 1895 (336) and the Winchester Model 64 and 94.

For plain base cast boolit loads at 1,300 fps I just neck size and I use the Redding neck size bushing die to do so. For hotter loads I generally full length resize.

[357Mag]

Dan -

Howdy !

FWIW -
LEE makes " Collet Neck Size Die " sets for .30-30 and .35 Rem.

I have been using a Collet NS die for my .35 Rem ammo, shot from my M-336 XLR.

IMHO - Using a Collet NS die on " deer cartridges " is worth its while.

Pics show my inability to correctly interpret wind flag changes. Aaackk !


With regards,
357Mag

[DanM]

Thanks guys....I only have about 75, 30-30 cases, left behind by friends who brought their rifles over to shoot over the years. Obviously I need to get more. What I am hearing here is that neck sizing is OK if it works, so I will likely try it and see. This rifle looks unmolested. No extra holes, and the wood looks to have the original finish. Just a few small dings and one noticeable old scratch on the fore end. I don't see any evidence that it has been sanded. If it was sanded it was a long time ago. All the 1948, 336As I have seen on GB have been 'plainjane' models with no checkering, grip cap, or white line butt plates, and this one is no exception. I overstated the proud metal at the rear trigger guard. It is really only a little over 1/16" tall after I tightened the tang screw. I noticed that my reloads made with 16gr/2400 and 160gc boolits had slightly flowed primers. Meaning that primer metal had flowed slightly around the firing pin and made a very small ridge around the primer dent. This ridge was more obvious with factory Privi 150s, but still not terrible and primers were not out of round, so they did not flow sideways, just around the pin. I have seen this before on other older rifles and don't think this is a problem but thought I would mention it. Fired cases FL resize easily. I need to search the forum for 30-30 powder and load suggestions. So, the Winchester 1894 receiver sights should work, that is good news. 357, those are some fine groups, I doubt that my eyes will ever let me shoot that well. Just beginning the process and already having fun....DanM

[imashooter2]

Neck sizing is always for cases fired in your gun. First time through with range pick up brass you should full length size.

[DanM]

Neck sizing is always for cases fired in your gun. First time through with range pick up brass you should full length size.

Yep...didn't mean to imply that I would NS unknown brass. Just cases from a specific rifle for that same rifle....

[Balta]

Lever gun reloads shoud be crimped...unless you wonna feed that baby one by one cartridge directly in chamber

[MT Chambers]

Don't waste your money on Fancy Crimp dies(FCD), they're useless, for hunting I would full length size my cases everytime I reload, neck sizing may be okay for range work, not for serious work on close range big game.

[dragon813gt]

Don't waste your money on Fancy Crimp dies(FCD), they're useless, for hunting I would full length size my cases everytime I reload, neck sizing may be okay for range work, not for serious work on close range big game.
Please elaborate as to why a FCD is useless.

[Remiel]

I full length resize all my .30-30 brass and use the fcd crimp to keep the projectiles in place due to tube mag and recoil usually i can get a 1in group or less but my scope mount came loose so now i have to double check my settings, find a good boolit it likes and you will be set, my remlin 336w loves anything around 150gr over 30.5 to 31 gr if IMR4895 depending on the projectile i use

[MT Chambers]

Please elaborate as to why a FCD is useless. All good die sets will crimp your rounds as much as you like if set correctly, I see no advantage or use for them.

[dragon813gt]

All good die sets will crimp your rounds as much as you like if set correctly, I see no advantage or use for them.

That's funny because they are the crimping die that comes w/ Lee rifle die sets. The seaters do not crimp. The collect type factory crimp dies provide a more consistent crimp. It's a superior design to a standard roll crimp.

[bikerbeans]

Very nice trade! I would suggest you sort your 30-30 brass by headstamp and only use one brand of brass as there can be fairly significant case capacity differences between difference manufacturers brass of the same caliber. I even have taken to weighing brass that is all same headstamp and culling the heavy and light ones.

BB

[DanM]

Good advice from all....My Lee 30-30 seater die does apply a crimp when adjusted correctly. Many Lee seater dies must be modified to get them to crimp. Most, if not all, Lee rifle seater dies will roll crimp with modification. They just sometimes need a little length ground off the bottom. I use a bench mount belt sander for this and then rechamfer the opening. Shortening the bottom of the die allows the case mouth to reach the tapered section of the seater and applies a fine roll crimp with careful adjustment. My guess is that Lee wants to promote their FCD concept and make their seating dies a little longer than necessary so many won't crimp without modification (IMHO). I have modified many of my Lee rifle seating dies just so they will apply enough crimp to close the bell of the case mouth when seating cast boolits. Works beautifully with careful adjustment. I haven't used the LFCD included in the set. I imagine it would be most useful with boolits lacking a crimp groove.

DanM

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Full-length sizing is a maybe. The most critical factor - will the fired case chamber easily? Correct sizing die adjustment can extend case life and improve accuracy. Setting the full-length sizing die against the shellholder is NOT the best way to resize cases. There are many methods to determine proper sizing described on this and other forums. Redding makes a set of competition shell holders that can make PROPER full length sizing simple and repeatable. Rimmed cartridges (.30-30, .303 Savage and British, .32 Win Spcl) are very forgiving to improper sizing. Best case life and accuracy involve a little more care and a little 'experiment' and fussing with sizing die adjustment. With moderate loads the .30-30 may go more than 10 reloads with only neck sizing.

[dualsport]

Good trade! You can not go wrong with any 30-30, especially using 'boolits'! It's a easy thing to test your brass for fit in your gun, just put it in there and see how it feels when you close the lever. Check out Ranch Dog Outdoors, lots of good info for the Marlin 30-30. There was also some work done by old Frank Marshall, his BOWM load for the 30-30 is fun and useful.

[Canuck Bob]

I neck size everything and it has not been a problem yet. I use standard full size dies so the case does get some sizing but set it so it just touches the shoulder. With my 303 Brit and its long chamber full length sizing works the neck and shortens the shoulder so that cases are prone to separate after a couple reloads. My 32 Special, 444, and 32-20 levers will chamber a fired round. The 32-20 also has a long chamber compared to the fully sized round like my 303. Some folks will fully size hunting loads for sure feed but this has never been a problem in my levers.

It is real simple to test anyways.