.40 Cal

[nicknack2]

Guys started casting my own boolits, 175 g. from Lee mold, loaded them with 4.2 g of Red Dot, gun cycles good, just at times slide won't lock to the rear on last round (1once maybe twice) other than that no issues, here is what I found out from the chronograph...Guns P99 Walther and P2000 H&K.

13.- 858
12.- 855
11.- 899
10.- 899
9.-850
8.-929
7.-870
6.-886
5.-903
4.-902
3.-933
2.-929
1.-902

Hi: 933, LO:850, AU:894, ES:83, SD:27.

Shoot 5 mags thru the chronograph with similar results most bullets in the high 800s Ft/Sec.

Not sure what AU,ES and SD means...the boolits are made strictly from lead WW and lubed with LLA, this is the first time I shoot my own cast boolits and it seem like the barrel got dirty, shot 150 rounds.. before I had shot many cast bought lead boolits and don't remember my gun getting this dirty... OAL of my round is ~1.130, seems like the round is a little slow??? thinking about shortening the AOL to 1.28...would that add some velocity or would just create more pressure on the gun???

I guess this is what I want to find out:

AOL is correct???
Velocities are good???
Leading at that velocity???

and your recommendations...

[357Mag]

Nicknack -

Howdy !

SD = Standard deviation

ES = Extreme Spread

AU = basically, the average ( vel )

At least, that's what I'd call them.


With regards,
357Mag

[triggerhappy243]

I dont know if your powder of choice is inherently a dirty powder. but it sounds like it is. and as far as velocity goes... if you can hit what you aim at, and have 0 feeding issues, that is all that matters.

[sandman228]

how was your accuracy ? I cast and shoot this same bullet, it shoots decent out of my Taurus pt100 over 5.6 gr of herco . but out of my s&w sigma this load feels like its gonna tear your hand off . the sigma likes 4.5 gr of 231 with this bullet .

[too many things]

your flake powder is going to be dirty in a hand gun.

[nicknack2]

I know red dot is not the powder of choice, but that's all I could get my hands on and start my reloading endeavors ... I'm a new reloader... And that all the powder I could find to learn the hobby...

[nicknack2]

Sandman, I haven't shot paper to really check accuracy and consistency...I was just testing the round and just took my steel plates, shot my 8" plates at 25 yards and was consistent hitting them then at 15 yards I was hitting the all the time...

[ipijohn]

how was your accuracy ? I cast and shoot this same bullet, it shoots decent out of my Taurus pt100 over 5.6 gr of herco . but out of my s&w sigma this load feels like its gonna tear your hand off . the sigma likes 4.5 gr of 231 with this bullet .

My CZ P07 shoots this boolit great, ESPCed over 5.0 grains of HP-38. Recoil is kind of snappy but the gun stays clean.

[nicknack2]

My main concern is the leading, for that velocity shouldn't be any right? you guys think is because the WWs lead are just too soft? or need more than LLA for lubing?

[petroid]

My main concern is the leading, for that velocity shouldn't be any right? you guys think is because the WWs lead are just too soft? or need more than LLA for lubing?

What leading? You didn't mention any leading before. I saw where you asked about leading and said your gun is dirty. Are you getting leading? If you are you need to check your boolit/barrel fit as well as whether your boolits are swaging down when seating. Pull a boolit from a dummy and make sure it is the same size as before. Make sure you are expanding adequately. Most die sets don't expand enough esp for high pressure cartridges with thick brass that tends to swage the boolit down when seated

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Red Dot is a "flake powder", and it is NOT dirty with the right combination. I use a lot of it. It was never hard to find during the recent era of shortages. I've been using it since 1966 or so. Works fine in .40 S&W for me. If there is leading occurring, I suspect the bullet is undersize for the gun. I size to .401 and have no leading with range scrap in EAA Witness or my buddies .40 S&W M&P. The "dirty" part might be from the LLA. If it does not hurt accuracy, don't worry about it. I like Carnuba Red.

[Ed_Shot]

I agree with Rattlesnake Charlie. I use nothing but Red Dot/PROMO in my G22 (w/LW barrel) just because it shoots great. I size to .401 with WL 2500+ lube. No leading and it's not dirty to me.

[nicknack2]

@ Petroid, when I said barrel is getting dirty I meant leading...sorry should have been more explicit... can you re-do your post in "dummy proof" wording (swaging down and sizing stuff) Im still new...

[nicknack2]

definitely leading, I was cleaning one of my guns yesterday night and I sew lead towards front end of the barrel in the rifling...

[petroid]

@ Petroid, when I said barrel is getting dirty I meant leading...sorry should have been more explicit... can you re-do your post in "dummy proof" wording (swaging down and sizing stuff) Im still new...

There are stickies on the subject but the gist of it is that both 9mm and 40sw are high pressure fast twist cartridges that do better with harder alloys. You need to make sure your brass is expanded properly so that the bulet isn't squeezed down to undersize when seated. Expand your brass and seat a bullet in an unprimed uncharged case. Pull the bullet and make sure oot is the same size as before. Most dies assume the use of jacketed bullets and don't expand enough for cast. I had a custom expander plug made that has a .401 diameter and leaves the brass at .399 for .002" neck tension. The factory plug wasn't deep enough and left the case at .396

[nicknack2]

10-4, thanks Petroid... yesterday I went out again and tested two different kinds boolits I reloaded, one 140 TC I bought and my cast 175 TC, at 15 yards the 140 was traveling at 1000-1050 FT/S very accurate 13 bullet shot group inside 2.5" diameter, the 175 cast was all over the place(inside of 10" group, also 13 rounds shot), but consistently traveling high 800s and low 900s FT/s...so I'm wondering if such a low speed is giving me accuracy issues, both test done with same gun P99 Walther...also leading was observed with the 175 TC cast bullet, again that is the slower bullet, not much leading seen with the faster "bought" 140 grain boolit.

[petroid]

10-4, thanks Petroid... yesterday I went out again and tested two different kinds boolits I reloaded, one 140 TC I bought and my cast 175 TC, at 15 yards the 140 was traveling at 1000-1050 FT/S very accurate 13 bullet shot group inside 2.5" diameter, the 175 cast was all over the place(inside of 10" group, also 13 rounds shot), but consistently traveling high 800s and low 900s FT/s...so I'm wondering if such a low speed is giving me accuracy issues, both test done with same gun P99 Walther...also leading was observed with the 175 TC cast bullet, again that is the slower bullet, not much leading seen with the faster "bought" 140 grain boolit.

1000fps is quite a light load for a 140gr 40sw boolit. 900 is somewhat light for a a 175 but not to the same degree. if you adjust your load for the 175 you may find better accuracy and reduced/absent leading. without details of your load, I don't know what you're working with but I shoot the Lee 175 TC and SWC at high 900s using a variety powders in a 3" XD. Accuracy is fine at 10 yards or less but short barrel is hard to aim at longer ranges. The expander, for me, was the key to preventing leading. you have to make sure the bullet isn't swaging down when it is seated. measure the expander plug on your dies and the id of the brass after expansion. if you have more than 2or3 thou of neck tension, you are likely swaging the bullets down when seating. The purchased 140gr boolits are very likely of a hard alloy. This is often counterproductive but in the 40 is needed

[nicknack2]

Petroid, Thanks for the reply...if the 175 grain boolit is swaging down I would expect the same for the 140 grain right?

both loads are getting Red Dot at the following rate:
140@ 4.7 grains
175@ 4.2 grains

[petroid]

The alloy for the 140s is unknown unless stated by the mfr. it is likely quite hard. You do not know unless you test it. Your alloy is WW. Is that clip-on or stick-on? Stick-on are much softer. Clip-ons should be ok but may need water quenched from the mold. Always allow four-five days after casting to load and shoot. Please seat a bullet in an empty case and pull t and measure it. This will tell you if its swaging down. If it is you need a bigger expander and maybe a harder alloy. What size is your expander? What size does it leave the brass? These are important questions that need answering to help solve your problem

[rsrocket1]

Here's my data for 4.0g Red Dot under the Lee 401-175-TC seated to 1.125" COL. I did this because I wasn't sizing the powder coated bullets and my 4.25" M&P 40 has a small throat which will prevent a bullet wider than 0.401" from chambering.
117567117568
Your velocities seem a little low, but the slide ought to lock back even at that velocity. I load "9mm" emulation rounds with 3.0g Clays which give me mid-700 fps MV's and the slide locks back 100% of the time.

I've since gone back to sizing all my 40 and 9mm boolits because I can now load them back to 1.135" COL and with PC'ing them, get no leading at all.

Try bumping the load to 4.4g Red Dot and see if you get reliable lock back of the slide.

[Ed_Shot]

Using my Glock 22 w/LW barrel I got practically identical chrony data to rsrocket1's post using the Lee 401-175-TC over Red Dot/ Promo 4.0 gr. I get AV 980 fps with Lyman 401043 (170 gr.) and AV 990 fps with Lyman 401654 (152 gr) over Red Dot / Promo 4.0 gr. Mine were sized .401 and lubed with WL 2500+ with COAL at the Lyman spec.

I have used loads up to Red Dot / Promo 4.4 gr with each of these boolits because I kept having trouble with the slide failing to lock back on the last round. I saw a post on another forum and adjusted my grip to keep my thumb away from the slide release on the Glock 22 and problems with failure to lock went away and I find best accuracy with Red Dot / Promo in the 3.8 gr to 4.1 gr range. Just my experience with my weapon.

[nicknack2]

Rsrocket1 & Ed shot, Thanks for your replies they are very informational...Like I was telling your I use a P99 Walther and no problem locking the slide to the rear, this only happens with my H&K on the last round. I started my OAL length at 1.135 and have worked my way down to 1.128, I still not have come down all the way to 1.125, what I'm going to try is to load 50 round, 4.3 grain, 4.4 grains and drop my AOL to 1.125 and 1.128, then run them thru the chronograph directed to a target and see if that helps with the leading and accuracy. I'll post leading, velocities and accuracy results as soon as I make it out to the range this week some time.