LGS has Winchester 94, 1953, 32 Win Spcl

[Kevinakaq]

Local pawn has this rifle that will be mine for the taking in a couple weeks if i choose. It is a Pre 64 (1953) Winchester 94 in 32 Winchester Special. Rifle is in overall decent shape and bore is immaculate. Action tight and has a nice patina. Only significant problem is the notch someone made on the butt stock where the sling would attach (see pic). Tube magazine has some staining from what was most likely blood. Mechanically is as sound as a drum. I can get it for around 400. What do you think? I have a 1954 Marlin 336 in 32 Win Special so I am familiar with the caliber.

It is tapped for a side scope mount...did Winchester do this in 1953? I am looking for the answer but can't seem to find it. I know my Marlins, and have several in my collection...but no Winchester levers...thoughts?

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[marvelshooter]

My only question is about the rear sight. Are they all leaning toward the rear? I have a '94 with the sight leaning the same way and I thought it had been bent back. To keep this from being a total hijack - nice rifle for the money. The notch in the stock meant something to somebody and is part of the character of the rifle.

[nagantguy]

All in that price in that shape; yes sir I'd take her home!

[helice]

To my knowledge Winchester didn't set up for the scope till the Angle Eject models. The 32 Special is truly a special caliber and a shame that it got lost to the 30-30. Those who know the abilities of the 32 don't often sell them. I suspect this belonged to a fellow who is no longer able to hunt.

[bob208]

if you are talking about the 2 small holes on the left upper receiver. then yes they were started some time in the early 50's. they were mostly for a peep sight. but some scope mounts use them also.

[runfiverun]

400 is about right.
the 2 holes in the receiver should be near the back [left side as shot] and are actually there for a peep sight.
if there are more holes near the front of the receiver it's been altered and would lower the price.
the only wear I see that I'd be too concerned about is on the magazine tube, the rest looks like it was carried in hand by someone before the sling alteration.

[Kevinakaq]

has the two holes for the peep just like a Marlin would and the larger single one (often used for a scope mount) commonly found on Winchesters forward of those. If they were factory drilling for peep sights in 1953 I suppose is the question i should have asked.

zoomed in pic
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[phonejack]

I just looked at my 1953. The rear sight is verticle.

[Scharfschuetze]

I too think the rear sight is bent to the rear. That shouldn't be an issue though. It'll probably work fine as is or it can be gently rebent to the vertical. To get the most in usable accuracy though, you'll probably want to install an aperture sight and thus remove the bent unit.

While I have seen a few Pre-64 Model 94s that were not factory drilled and tapped for aperture sights, I think that most or many were so made you should be good to go there.

My circa 1946 Model 64 (a rifle version of the 94) and my 1956 Model 94 carbine were both factory drilled and tapped.

I just had my 32 Special Model 64 out at the range last week and spent some quality time dinging the 10" gong at 200 yards with plain base cast boolits. You'll really enjoy that 32 Special if you decide to buy it.

Here's a Redfield aperture sight attached with those two holes at the left-rear of the receiver.

[BCRider]

I'd buy it. But then I've already got an affinity towards it since the rifle was produced in the same year that I was......:D

[runfiverun]

I have a 92 made in 1924 and one made in 32 they are both d/t'd for the peeps.
the 24 has a lyman or marbles [I don't remember right now] installed.
I'd have to go look at my 32 win and 30-30 to remember but I'm pretty sure they are too.

[OverMax]

To help narrow the field. I have a Winny 32 Spec made in 1952 its receiver is not factory drilled for a Peeps mounting. I suspect the rifle pictured was drilled by someone other than a factory worker.

[BruceB]

Curious.

My near-new Model 64 in .32 Special dates to the early '40s, and it IS drilled-and-tapped for a receiver aperture sight. It appeared to be a factory job, with undisturbed finish and neatly-fitted filler screws when I got it.

I mounted a steel Redfield sight without difficulty. Sweet rifle.

[BruceB]

I just re-checked the serial number on this M64 of mine. It's 1,851,XXX.

It's quite possible that the slightly-fancier M64 rifles were drilled and tapped as a standard feature a bit before it became standard for all the '94 rifles.

[Kevinakaq]

Serial on this rifle is 1,954,xxx

Sounds like there is a more than fair chance that this was factory drilled and tapped. I know 32 Winchester special rifles are rare at a factor of about 20 to 1 to finding a 30-30. I think 400 may be low end of fair for a rifle in this condition.

Now i could buy her and rust blue and fully restore but would hate to loose that patina on the receiver....hmmm....

[bob208]

i would say it was factory drilled and tapped. now as for the refinish that would make a $400+ rifle into a $200 beater that will never gain in value. just use it and like it for what it is a honest winchester.

[Kevinakaq]

i would say it was factory drilled and tapped. now as for the refinish that would make a $400+ rifle into a $200 beater that will never gain in value. just use it and like it for what it is a honest winchester.

while i agree that refinishing a rifle can often drop the value of a classic, i would never call a rifle I refinish a beater...i do quality work.

[MT Gianni]

while i agree that refinishing a rifle can often drop the value of a classic, i would never call a rifle I refinish a beater...i do quality work.
He is referring to collector value, which will be lost at any refinish short of the Factory's.

[Kevinakaq]

I have multiple rifles that i wouldn't dream of refinishing and think most of the forum realize that altering the original finish on a classic/collector rifle is a travesty. Whether they are old Springfields, Remingtons etc. My main point in reply was that a quality restoration on a Winchester 94 32 Win Spcl would not 'often' referred to as a beater and would be worth much more than 200 dollars. I have restored Marlins (pre 84's) and sold for significantly higher than that. Of course that is at the discretion of the buyer. Definitely not my first project, just have not followed Winchester Levers in the past and moving in that direction. It is a gap in my knowledge that I am working to remedy. I also want one for my collection and like most probably will not stop there...lol.

I suppose a better worded question that would have conveyed my intent clearer was considering the condition etc. do you think this rifle has any collector value? If not, then I wouldn't hesitate to make her purdy. For example I recently restored a 1952 Marlin 336, 30-30 Waffle top that had been tapped on the side. The rifle was in well used condition before the restoration, and since it had been tapped and lost collector value I went ahead and slow rust blued it and refinished the wood to make her tip top. She's a beauty now, but not a collector. If she had not been tapped on the side in the condition I bought her in I wouldn't have dared to touch the original metal/wood.

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I do realize this would be my rifle and i can do as I please, but i enjoy listening to others opinions/thoughts combined with research and making an educated call after that.

Thanks to all for the input on the two tapped holes etc.

[dubber123]

I for one would be much more inclined to part with $400 for that particular rifle after a quality refinish than as it sits. Very nice, original examples I think should be left alone, but if it's not so nice, I have no problem making it look good again. I just re-blued a poor finish 1952 K-38. It looks new again. I'm happy.

[pietro]

has the two holes for the peep just like a Marlin would and the larger single one (often used for a scope mount) commonly found on Winchesters forward of those. If they were factory drilling for peep sights in 1953 I suppose is the question i should have asked.

zoomed in pic
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/67729401/IMG_20140918_144908_334.jpg


You have a perfectly normal pre-64 Model 94, with the factory receiver sight prep - which Winchester started to provide somewhere around SN 1790000 (well before your SN1951xxx was made).

The large-headed screw in the upper/fwd LH receiver wall in the lever pin stop screw - which needs to be removed, so that the pin holding the lever to the bolt can be pressed out via the tiny hole in the RH receiver sidewall, opposite the stop screw.

Several scope side-mount makers designed mounts that utilized those 3 factory holes, so owners wouldn't have to molest their rifles to mount a scope.

The stock looks like someone mounted an old military 2-screw sling swivel base, and recessed the wood underneath for expediency.

If it were mine, I scrounge around a funshow WWII militray parts guy for the swivel base, then mount it, and a receiver peep sight before I shot/hunted the snot outta that gun.



.

[Kevinakaq]

If it were mine, I scrounge around a funshow WWII militray parts guy for the swivel base, then mount it, and a receiver peep sight before I shot/hunted the snot outta that gun.

Well said indeed! I have had Marlin 336's and 1894's for well over thirty years, but never a Winchester lever. Marlins are popular in the south and it is what you run across most of the time used.

The gun is remarkably light and quick to shoulder. Would make a fine hunting rifle as she lays and I love hunting with calibers that aren't run of the mill. It being a 32 is half the attraction for me. I buy lots of rifles with the intent of keeping as is for field work and most fall to reconditioning eventually and then I am reticent to hunt them...lol. A vicious circle indeed. I think I have five rifles right now on my bench in pieces.

Definitly would warrant a peep and a sling mount to fit those two holes. Heck if I scrounge around I might even have one.

[Kevinakaq]

Phineas,

A very well thought out response and much appreciated. "Sound wisdom"

I would hate to pay to much for a rifle i will restore...that would be **** backward using my frugal logic, BUT i have no doubt if I did i would have a fine rifle for life. Current have four levers, Marlin 336 in 35 rem, 30 wcf, 32 win spcl, and a Savage 99 in 300. Collection is crying for some Winchesters. Would fall over myself getting my cash out if I spotted deal like you found.



Would like to sincerely thank ALL for taking the time to comment whether I agree with what is said or not. It is why I love this forum, honest answers and knowledge on tap. No one can know it all and it is great to have access to so many mobile encyclopedias.

On a side note, Archery season starts tomorrow and I am so looking forward to watching the sun come up in the swamp tomorrow while listening to thousands of our native birds sing their song...........bzzzzz, bzzzzzzzzz, bzzzzz

[TXGunNut]

while i agree that refinishing a rifle can often drop the value of a classic, i would never call a rifle I refinish a beater...i do quality work.

As noted it's a nice old rifle but not a collector, most guns around here in that condition go for a bit more so I'd buy it. Of course, I've seen very few Winchesters that I didn't want to buy so take that for what it's worth. ;-) I've seen your work, if that's what you want to do I'm all for it. I've 'freshened up" the finish on a similar vintage rifle and most folks think it's original. Many hard-working older rifles have had the wood cleaned, fixed and reoiled and are none the worse as far as I'm concerned. I've done that with a few of mine and as long as I don't try to make it look new it improves the look of the rifle. Metal should look much better after you've had a chance to give it a good cleaning, then you'll know what to do.

[bob208]

well if it not a collector rifle send them all up here that rifle at a show would have a $600 price on it. at auctions anything pre 64 goes wild. it gas been over 20 years since i have picked up a 94 for less then 300.

no matter how good you are at refinishing it is still refinished.

[helice]

Beauty is as beauty does. You say it's sound in barrel and action. That alone makes it a reasonable purchase.
I don't buy guns to sell them. If a gun pleases me it pleases me. I've bought nice ones and butt-ugly ones but I bought guns I liked. My kin have ended up inheriting a bunch of obsolete calibers on rifles that few people liked. Yet each rifle has brought me a great deal of pleasure. Some were clean and some I cleaned. If the OP finds pleasure in a more attractive piece, then by all means let him polish it up a bit. It's pretty obvious that the man know what he'd doing and he knows what it will do to someone else's idea of value. The most important issue here is not what I think about that Winchester. Its about what the OP thinks, its where he finds value in it.
But here is my $.02 worth. Considering how good he is at gun work, I hope he buys it, cleans it up real nice and takes it into the swamp to listen to thousands of song birds and ultimately to fill his freezer. Freezers are more efficient when they are full, and freezers don't give a dang what the gun looked like. But I believe a gun should look like it is appreciated. I also hope his offspring hunt with that gun for many generations to follow. Its hard to improve on a 32 Special in a Winchester 94 for shooting cast and for harvesting game. My $.02.

[6thtexas]

If you get it and need some dies, I have a set of 32 Win. Spl RCBS Cowboy Dies. It is a 3 die set and includes an expander die. I got the dies new didn't use them much.