Are my .45LC rounds too long?

[cpaspr]

Not sure if this is the right section, so mods, please feel free to move if I posted it in the wrong section.

I recently acquired a new .45ACP/.45LC conversion Ruger Blackhawk, 5.5" barrel. Got lucky, all of the holes in both cylinders are reamed to the correct size.

I have about a hundred 454424 bullets I cast a couple of weeks ago. These are from an old Ideal single mold my dad gave me. Sized down to .452". They weigh in at about 262gr.

I loaded up three cartridges, crimping in the crimp groove. Dropped them in the LC cylinder, and the bullets are about a tenth of an inch back from the front of the cylinder. That looks just fine to me. OAL is 1.685".

However, I checked both Sierra manuals I have, and they both are showing max OAL for a loaded cartridge at 1.600". If I shove that bullet that much farther into the cartridge I'll be crimping over the top driving band.

That just doesn't make sense to me. .45LCs are regularly loaded with 300-330gr bullets. Those have to be even longer than the 262s I have, so I know I should be able to seat these deeper without worrying about pressure (and the base of my bullet would still be above the powder level).

What say you? Leave them at 1.685" and shoot them, or tear them apart and remake them crimped over the top driving band? By the way, if I do crimp over the top driving band, they'll be right at that alleged 1.600" OAL.

They're loaded over 17gr of 2400.

[flyingmonkey35]

Do they pass the drop test.

[emoji205]

[44MAG#1]

1.600" is SAAMI specs. Yours is okay. Most that shoot SWC's know that. Why worry about it? Shoot them and don't think about it. Make sure they are crimped well so they wont jump crimp.

[PS Paul]

One of the fun things about loading for these guns , as you've discovered. If they seat, don't bind the cylinder and are crimped well enough they don't "jump crimp" and bind the cylinder while shooting, they're fine. I have an Accurate 300 gr. mold that I've got to crimp over the front band to get them to work, so I shoot loads that are reduced OR use different powders so they are not high-pressure since they are seated deeply. Sounds like you've done the drop test already, so now just give 'em a whirl for the crimp-jump test!!

[cpaspr]

By "drop test", I think you mean dropping a bullet in the cylinder hole, having it hang up slightly, and being able to push it the rest of the way through with just my finger.

I slugged the cylinders, and memory says they were .452"-.4525" but haven't tried actually dropping a sized bullet in.

[DeanWinchester]

ALL of my .45 Colt loads are longer than SAAMI specs. They don't hang out the end of the cylinder and as has been stated, they are crimped just enough that they don't move under recoil.

OAL maximums are more of a guideline than anything. Not so with minimums and listed load lengths should be paid attention to with respect to deep seating. Pressures rise as the real estate inside the case is reduced. Long seating will rarely (if ever) get you in trouble provided they fit the gun and function properly.

[cpaspr]

Alrighty then. Sounds like I'm good to go. I'll load up a bunch more and see how they ring the steel at 50-100 yards this weekend.

[44MAG#1]

Now, you have been given appropriate advice on the OAL. Now one needs to go drop the hammer on them and see what you can do with them.
That will be the real test.

[osteodoc08]

If they drop in and don't extend past the cylinder, you're GTG. Keeping the boolit out of the case lowers pressures, that's why you see so many auto guys get all worried about set back and a possible KB (kaboom).

[Brett Ross]

My rule of thumb is, seat as long as they will chamber and not hang up. My thinking is they will be more accurate as they will have less of a gap to jump. I have no proof of this , just seems correct to me. By the way, you are lucky my BH throat's are small, just how much I'm not sure. I am working on scrapping together the funds to have DougGuy ream them before hunting season.

[Moonie]

Like the USPS commercial says "If it fits it ships"

[GoodOlBoy]

If the cylinder will turn yer alright.

GoodOlBoy

[runfiverun]

in many of the older manuals there is data for the 454424 where they are crimped over the front drive band.
many guns won't take the longer oal.

in this case you have the right combination of a good boolit in a good gun and everything falls together.

[cpaspr]

Thanks all.

If these shoot good, I'll need to work up a .45ACP load that will duplicate POA/POI. Right now the sights are set for the ACPs I fired a few weeks ago, but those were handloads originally made for the semi-auto. I'm thinking I'll need to kick them up a bit for the revolver. I have a couple of different bullet profiles to try, so I'll be able to tell the revolver rounds apart from the semi-auto rounds.

[pkie44]

MP Ruger Only runs at 1.720.5, works fine in mine.:mrgreen:

[Moonie]

I shoot the Lee 300gr at the longest crimp groove over 22gr of H110/W296 in my convertible NMBH, it is a handfull. 1.645"

[44man]

The 400 gr Lee for the .475 needs crimped at the very top of the groove for a Freedom, it is so close to the end of the cylinder. With enough case tension there have been no problems.
However to worry about jump to the cone is just an old tale.
My 45-70 BFR must have 3/4" from the front of the boolit to the end of the cylinder and is the most accurate revolver I ever shot, has done less then 1/2" at 100 yards and hit steel at 500 meters.
I fell into the old trap of less boolit jump myself and have learned as long as the rounds chamber, it means nothing. Same as gap, .002", .004" or .006", means nothing.
Toss those book figures as far as you can.

[bedbugbilly]

I don't load or shoot 45 LC but I'm just wondering as I read this thread . . . just what is the big concern about the boolit sitting back a 1/10 of an inch? I understand that a lot of folks worry about "bullet jump" but that really doesn't seem like a big issue if it chambers, the boolits are crimped to prevent jumping in the cases due to recoil. If the cartridge chambers and the cylinder turns, I kind of doubt that what little "jump" there is between the end of the bullet and the barrel is going to make a big difference. How is it any different than shooting a 38 spl. out of a .357 - something which I do all the time. I cast and load a lot of different boolit designs in the 38 and they all seat different due to design and the COAL can vary. If they chamber - they'll shoot just fine. Not being critical . . . just asking why it would be any different in a 45 LC?

[44man]

I don't load or shoot 45 LC but I'm just wondering as I read this thread . . . just what is the big concern about the boolit sitting back a 1/10 of an inch? I understand that a lot of folks worry about "bullet jump" but that really doesn't seem like a big issue if it chambers, the boolits are crimped to prevent jumping in the cases due to recoil. If the cartridge chambers and the cylinder turns, I kind of doubt that what little "jump" there is between the end of the bullet and the barrel is going to make a big difference. How is it any different than shooting a 38 spl. out of a .357 - something which I do all the time. I cast and load a lot of different boolit designs in the 38 and they all seat different due to design and the COAL can vary. If they chamber - they'll shoot just fine. Not being critical . . . just asking why it would be any different in a 45 LC?
Exactly, My job for years has been to make guys relax and stop nit picking, Stop reading stuff that leads you astray. The COL stuff is the same. Does not matter if the nose is at the end or way down that hole. I do not care where the boolit is as long as it does not stick out the front.

[Char-Gar]

I have been handloading a very long time and have never paid any attention to over all length specs in loading books. The firearm tells me what it likes and does not like. If the loaded round drop in the charge hole with ease and the bullet not stick out in front of the cylinder you are fine.

44man is absolutely correct, stop reading stuff that causes you stress and gets you focused on the wrong thing.

[Char-Gar]

I don't load or shoot 45 LC but I'm just wondering as I read this thread . . . just what is the big concern about the boolit sitting back a 1/10 of an inch? I understand that a lot of folks worry about "bullet jump" but that really doesn't seem like a big issue if it chambers, the boolits are crimped to prevent jumping in the cases due to recoil. If the cartridge chambers and the cylinder turns, I kind of doubt that what little "jump" there is between the end of the bullet and the barrel is going to make a big difference. How is it any different than shooting a 38 spl. out of a .357 - something which I do all the time. I cast and load a lot of different boolit designs in the 38 and they all seat different due to design and the COAL can vary. If they chamber - they'll shoot just fine. Not being critical . . . just asking why it would be any different in a 45 LC?

If you have ever looked at the very long throat in a 45 ACP cylinder for a sixgun you will know that sending a bullet trundling down the throat before it hits the forcing cone will do no harm to accuracy. Bullets will be fully out of the case and free in the throat before they hit the forcing cone.

So you are correct as their is no difference between 45, 38/357 and 44/44 Mag. Folks just seem to be married to numbers in books and afraid to use their brains.

[44MAG#1]

I cant help but wonder if the OP gets the message by now.

[cpaspr]

I don't load or shoot 45 LC but I'm just wondering as I read this thread . . . just what is the big concern about the boolit sitting back a 1/10 of an inch? I understand that a lot of folks worry about "bullet jump" but that really doesn't seem like a big issue if it chambers, the boolits are crimped to prevent jumping in the cases due to recoil. If the cartridge chambers and the cylinder turns, I kind of doubt that what little "jump" there is between the end of the bullet and the barrel is going to make a big difference. How is it any different than shooting a 38 spl. out of a .357 - something which I do all the time. I cast and load a lot of different boolit designs in the 38 and they all seat different due to design and the COAL can vary. If they chamber - they'll shoot just fine. Not being critical . . . just asking why it would be any different in a 45 LC?

The "tenth of an inch" specifically, was not a concern. That the COAL was .085" over SAAMI spec was. The tenth of an inch was just the amount the loaded rounds happened to be below the end of the cylinder. I would have asked the same question if my loaded rounds ended up being .030" beyond SAAMI, and the loaded rounds were instead an eighth of an inch below the end of the cylinder.

[cpaspr]

I cant help but wonder if the OP gets the message by now.

Yes, I got it by the sixth post.

Everything else was just further confirmation, or other questions being asked that I wasn't concerned about.

[44man]

Understand OAL is based on jacketed and where the crimp groove is, same as cast. No cast is the same with so many boolits. All are different and it means nothing at all. Even if a boolit seats deeper then another, what does it mean? NOTHING in the end since loads should be worked anyway. But most of mine use the same charge when done. Cast is very forgiving. If you tell me seating 1/10" deeper will break my gun I will look at you cockeyed.
You work with what you have.
My favorite is if your boolit is over groove and fits throats someone will always say to soften the boolit so it OBTURATES, OH MY! Hard boolits lead bores--OH MY!
My OH MY list would use all the memory this site has.

[cpaspr]

Lions and Tigers and Bears! OH MY!!!

(make dandy targets, if you bring enough gun) :bigsmyl2:

[cpaspr]

Well, I got out and shot it this weekend. I must say 17gr of 2400 under a 262gr SWC was stout. I only shot six. The grips were abrading the palm of my hand pretty good. Either new, smooth grips or a shooting glove before I'll shoot those again. Well, actually, first I'll see how it groups on a target. I was just shooting at a steel plate Saturday.

[44MAG#1]

My standard load for a 454424 is 20 gr 2400 with a standard primer.
I don't find the load objectionable with 20 gr.
19 gr with a Mihec 270 SAA clone of the RCBS mold.
I use the factory grips.
Your hand will toughen up.
A man and his wife were at Bass Pro looking for ammo for her alloy 38 Special S&W. She said it hurt her hand. Her husband ask me what she needed and I said to shoot more.
I got a blister on my hand the other day from shooting a sharp edged grip. Guess what, keep on keeping on.

[cpaspr]

Question - I don't think I crimped the rounds particularly deep, but if I did I think that would increase pressure and therefore recoil. Correct?

[44MAG#1]

You couldn't possibly be that recoil sensitive to tell the difference in crimp amount.

[cpaspr]

Okay. Thanks. I'm not particularly recoil sensitive, but these are the first big boomers I've ever loaded, and I've never had that kind of thing happen before, even when shooting 158gr .357mag SD ammo out of my LCR. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't inadvertently causing pressure spikes.

I'm still going to try making some replacement grips, but just because I like the look of wood better, and I have this really pretty piece of birds' eye maple.

[44MAG#1]

I think Maple is pretty. Along with well figured Walnut