Complete Ignition Black Powder Die.....

[MC One Shot]

Looking for some insight pros/cons etc into the Buffalo Arms .45 Complete Ignition Black Powder Die. It apparently leaves a channel down the center of the powder for more complete burning. They say it has lower deviations.


thanks

[Nobade]

Interesting. Never heard of such a thing other than when pressing rocket motors. I wonder how you could get lower deviations than what a good normal load will do, usually just a couple FPS. It might increase pressure and velocity like center burn rockets do though. I'd be curious also to hear of any experiences with this.

-Nobade

[kokomokid]

I understand that you get more bbl heat and my bbl gets too hot now. But the military used something similar on artillery so it may be the missing link.

[Skipper]

Solution to a nonexistent problem. The space that the hole takes up is no longer available for powder.

[country gent]

Its sounds very similar to some of the experiments done in the 50s and 60s Ive read about with ignition tubes in cases bringing the primers flash to the front of the charge igniting the front first. This is very similar to big naval guns and large artillery. It was supposed to force a compler burn of the powder and lower extreme velocity spreads. Some claimed increased barrel life also. Elmer Kieth and a couple others worked with this idea for awhile. Draw backs were installingtubes and the issues created decapping thru the small dia tube. Another was all loading data was off due to the change in case capacity adding the tubes..

[MC One Shot]

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Powder_Compression_System_it-1031131.aspx?CAT=3777

[montana_charlie]

They say it has lower deviations.
I have been 'developing' a series of paper patched loads for my 45/90 Sharps rifle.
The factors I have paid most attention to were appearance of the fired bullet; analysis of the shredded patch paper; and group size on a three hundred yard bullseye target.

For my most recent shooting session I decided to dig out the Chrony and see what the velocity looked like.
It took a while to find it, but the SD for that batch of ammunition was 7.24.

If deviation like that isn't good enough, then a special die really should be in your toolkit.

CM

[MT Chambers]

The early Keith developments were using smokeless, BP ignites so easily that I don't see this as necessary, but any testing is a good thing.

[Lead pot]

This hole in the powder stuff has been around for a long time. Not to long ago Hodgdon had to put a hole I their Pyrodex and triple 7 pellets to get reliable ignition. This is something you don't need using real black powder. Like Charlie said when you get SD's in the low single digits there isn't much you can do to get them better.
If your one of those guys who feel they have to have a lot of compression using the real black powder to get a .45-90 load into a .45-70 case then maybe yes a hole through the powder might make it burn more complete.
Since I was a very young Ladd I had a very high curiosity that my Mother had to hide the screw drivers because I would take the windup clocks apart to see what made the ticking noise, well this curiosity is still with me :-D like how much lube gets used in narrow deep grooves compared to wide shallow once. Or just how much powder gets used with no compression compared to high compression, Does a magnum primer burn more powder than a standard pistol primer.
The way the powder gets consumed the way I load my rounds I don't think that I will spend time out in the shop with my lathe turning down powder compression plugs with a hole stem to put a flash hole through the center of the compressed powder.

[Doc Highwall]

Rocky Gibbs did experiments with a flash hole primer tubes and smokeless powder.

[JSnover]

Artillery shells have had 'front ignition tubes' for a long time. I think the point was to burn all of the powder instead of just blowing some of it out with the projectile.

[Dan Cash]

I am not conversant with field or naval artillery but am passing acquainted with tank ammunition. These main gun rounds, that are not fin satbilized, have a perforated igniter/primer tube run up through the smokeless powder charge. The tube is loaded with black powder or similar explosive and is itself ignited by an electricly activated primer. The black powder in the primer tube is easily ignited and spews a great deal of burning residue which is blasted through the smokeless powder kernels thereby igniting them. It is not a front ignition system, rather a "core" ignition.

[JSnover]

That's correct, Dan. There were/are variations on the theme. I don't know [jack] about tanks but back I n my pack rat days I owned a number of artillery shells in which the primer consisted of a long tube with a short threaded section (no perforations) which was screwed into the case head. I can't remember if this was one piece or if the primer was pressed into the threaded end of the tube.