.45 ACP 1911 & 250 gr. boolits

[Big Boomer]

I acquired a RCBS 250 gr. boolit mould from a site member in a trade. It casts good boolits and the thought occurred to me to try it out in my .45 ACPs. Over about 3 grs. of Red Dot the load seemed to recoil about right and was very accurate in an old stainless steel Chas Daly. Pistol functioned well without a single failure to feed. I've only used 200 gr. and up to 225 gr. boolits up to this time.
Any thoughts? Don't have a chronograph so don't know the velocity. Big Boomer

[sdcitizen]

Kinda sorta keen to try this myself, I know it used to be done back in the heady days of the highly popular bowling pin shoots. I was going to get the 255 lee to give it a go.

[Outpost75]

Speer #13 has data. I use 4 grains of Bullseye with Saeco #955 in my S&W .45 ACP hand ejector.

[Love Life]

I have a couple manuals that list data for that weight. I'll look in and post it.

[44MAG#1]

This subject comes up quite often and rapidly degrades into a don't do it or a do it exchange of either horror stories or success stories that fizzles out after no one is convinced enough to change their opinion.
Do a search and you will find the pros and cons that amount to not much.

[ShooterAZ]

My NOE 45 cal 230 Large hollow point casts at 250 grains using the flat pins instead of the HP pins. I have been using 4.0 gr of 231 with good results.

[Big Boomer]

Interesting responses. One thing I did was to weigh all sized & lubed boolits and kept a tight selection, not varying by more than a few 1/10ths of a grain in weight. Group at 25 yrs. was unbelievable. I loaded and fired 10 rounds. 8 of the 10 rounds were in one beat-out hole just over an inch. One round was out of the group just enough to say that there was a shred of paper between it and the other 8 rounds in one hole. The first round was out of a clean barrel and was 1/4 inch from the rest and at the bottom of the group. I was so impressed with the group and now I'm interested in learning how to post pics. Big Boomer

[longbow]

I have no personal loading or shooting experience for heavy weight boolit sin .45 ACP but a few months ago a friend asked me if I could find him some load data for heavy boolits for his 1911 for .45-08.

He wanted to do a conversion and wanted heavy boolits.

Well, a few searches for .45-08 turned up the original loading for high velocity 200 gr. boolits but no load for heavy boolits so more searching and posting here.

In the end I collected information on loading for boolits up to 275 gr. in .45 Super, many .45 ACP +P loads and some heavy boolit loads for .45 ACP. I do not recall all the load details but I do know I have quite a number of loads for .45 ACP using heavy boolits.

In the end his project stalled because he had feeding problems and was reluctant to alter the feed ramp so was going to take the gun to the smith that built it.

I can e-mail you the relevant load data I collected for .45 ACP if you are interested.

As .44mag#1 says, there are some polarized responses ranging from "You are going to break something" to "I have loaded and shot thousands with no problem". Again, I have no personal experience so can't comment but I have a collection of load data currently doing nothing for anyone.

Longbow

[littlejack]

The Speer #12 Reloading Manual has data for the Speer 260 grain "jacketed" hp. I have substituted and
loaded the Lee 255 rnfp boolit. I used the Herco powder data as stated in that manual.
My Taurus PT1911 runs these loads very nicely. In my opinion, using the slower powders is a better
option than the fast powders.
I would assume that a person loading the heavy boolits, were going to use
them for hunting. I don't see much sense in shooting the big slugs at paper, when all those 200 swc are
available. But, you know what happens when one starts to assumeing things, and to each his/her own as
to what they shoot at.
My pistol had no problems with failure to feed with this boolit. Recoil was very manageable.
Regards
Jack

[Jupiter7]

I've not tried red dot. But have run hundreds of the Ideal 454424(260grs) over 6.5 grs AA5. Haven't broke anything and they feed and hit where the gun points. Have also run the same over 5grs unique. Both loads barely hit 720fps.

[SharpsShooter]

I shoot a 260 grain "Keith" with four grains of bull's-eye in both my 1911 and my 1917. The mold was an original group buy here many years ago from Lee. I also use it for 45 colt as it drops bullets at .456".

It's a good stout load in the 1911 and remarkably accurate. The 1917 eats anything I feed it accurately so it doesn't count.



SS

[Deep Six]

5.3 unique works good for me. The FNX doesn't care but the Colt seems like it would benefit from a stiffer spring.

[Big Boomer]

One of the posters on this thread indicated the lack of necessity of using 250 gr. boolits in the .45 ACP and suggested the use of 200 gr. boolits instead. That would be absolutely true and a waste of 50 grs. of lead per shot if I did not catch most all my boolits with 6" X 6" treated leftover post ends from when we built the deck on the back of our house. I have an ample supply readily available so I hardly ever lose a piece of lead. I loaded these rounds just to see what would happen and was very surprised at the accuracy. Big Boomer

[41mag]

I can say this, I am / have been, shooting a limited amount of them from time to time in my SS Colt Govt 1911. I usually only run a mag or so through it just to use up what is in there. I have probably only shot around 150-200 of them to date but have been happy with the load and results.

That said mine run a touch heavier at 260grs. I am using the MP 452-640 with the LG HP. Initially I did a VERY informal test with them using what alloy I had in the pot and a load I pulled out of the Laser Cast manual for their 250gr RF. I used some surplus powder called Salut which has been running right with my lot of older Unique. I noted the preliminary results here, Cast-against Condoms (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?165472-Cast-against-Condoms)

I have since played around with the alloy and have it expanding really good at the lower velocity. It usually runs maybe about an 8-9 BHN and I have found it very accurate as well. I have gotten full expansion to the bottom of the HP cavity as a result of softening the alloy up, and when I hit the road I usually have the mag in the pistol loaded with these. As mentioned your not going to get much speed without giving up some wear with a steady diet. How much I haven't got a clue, but with the limited amout I am shooting I am not overly worried anbout that. Most of the folks who I have read shooting the older pin load used recoil bushings and heavier springs to combat the effects, but even still that is only to combat the energy on the initial firing of the load and says nothing to what happend as the slide slams shut. Mine are still only running just over to middle 700's for velocity, but I figured if needed and used on a 2 legged critter, the impact of that slow moving weight, coupled with the 3/4+" or so expansion is going to make short work of things. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/2895504c6af9e55ac.jpg

I'm getting roughly what you see in the upper left corner with my loads.

I say if you like it, and it shoot good, use your own judgment and go for it. I run some loads in my other firearms that most would feel is either overkill or rediculious, so who am I to say.

[longbow]

E-mail is on the way with collected data and articles for heavy boolits.

Also included is a bunch of info for .45-08 which is what I was trying to find. As mentioned, the .45-08 was put together around the idea of a 200 gr. boolit at very high velocity for bear defense. Normally when one wants penetration a heavier boolit is the answer. Not sure why Armco went with 200 gr. Does anyone here have any ideas? I guess that is for a different thread though or maybe my original thread should the .45-08 project ever get going again.

I collected too much info to post here but if anyone else is interested in it heavy boolit .45 ACP loads, .45 ACP +P loads, .45-08, .460 Rowland, .45 Super loads, PM me and I will gladly e-mail what I have.

Longbow

[Big Boomer]

Longbow: Thanks! Big Boomer

[beroen]

I shoot a 260 grain "Keith" with four grains of bull's-eye in both my 1911 and my 1917. The mold was an original group buy here many years ago from Lee. I also use it for 45 colt as it drops bullets at .456".

It's a good stout load in the 1911 and remarkably accurate. The 1917 eats anything I feed it accurately so it doesn't count.



SS
Did the Keith feed good in the 1911?

[44 flattop]

I've used 230's and 255's over 6 grains of Unique for about 40 years. Accurate and the 255's do a great job on deer too.

[FlatTop45LC]

I've used 230's and 255's over 6 grains of Unique for about 40 years. Accurate and the 255's do a great job on deer too.
Do you know what kind of velocity you are getting?

[C. Latch]

My NOE 452-230-HP casts at about 252 grains as a flat point. I have loaded them over red dot, green dot, 700-x and 800-x.

Beating 900' MV with 800-x was no problem, pressure-wise, but at that speed I began to have problems with the slidelock locking back in mid-magazine. I believe this is an inertia-related problem and it's easier to back the load off a bit than to spend a year trying to tweak the pistol to run with ammo it wasn't designed to run with, so I backed the load off a bit. Once I was content with speed, I loaded several magazines and loaned the pistol to my dad for a trip he was making to bear country. When he returned I shot that ammo up and probably won't shoot that load much more.

[NoAngel]

The RCBS 250 is the ONLY cast bullet I've ever tried that cycles reliably in my little PT145.

AA Nitro 100 NF works very well for me. Quite accurate and cycles 99.5%, which, for a Taurus is dang good.

[454PB]

I just reviewed my chronograph notes.... Lyman 454190 sized .452", cast in ACWW alloy 265 grains, 6.0 grs. Hercules Unique, CCI 300 primers, fired in my Llama .45 ACP, 865 fps. avg. velocity. Also in my notes was the fact that it hit 3" lower than my normal sight settings. These are pretty stout loads, and I don't shoot a lot of them.

[kawasakifreak77]

Awesome. I have some 255 flat nose store bought bullets leftover from a friend's 45 colt stash & was curious about loading them.

IMR 7625 is between Unique & Herco I see so I'm hoping to build up a load using that, as it meters so well.

& what in the world is .45-08? A .308 shortened & shoehorned into some form of a .45?

[curator]

Lee .452-255FP cast from ACWW and sized .453 over 6.5 grains of Unique gives 880 fps from my Springfield Mil-spec 1911. Getting the right seating depth is a bit tricky with that large meplat so that rounds fit the magazine and feed/chamber reliably. I have replaced the standard 16 pound recoil spring with a 20 pound one so I don't beat the frame and slide with the extra recoil. Accuracy is outstanding--better in fact than any other cast boolit or factory "hardball."

[C. Latch]

I have replaced the standard 16 pound recoil spring with a 20 pound one so I don't beat the frame and slide with the extra recoil.


It doesn't work that way. A 20# spring may well make the slide's trip rearward much gentler, but the return forward is going to be downright violent. You're killing your gun.

Have you considered using the stock spring rate with the addition of an oversized, small-radius firing pin stop? That's what I have done with my 1911s and they run well with light target loads and with loads hotter than your 255s, and everything in between.

[StrawHat]

...Have you considered using the stock spring rate with the addition of an oversized, small-radius firing pin stop? ...

Being new to 1911s, I have heard this before (also a flat bottomed something or other). How does this improve the pistol?

I have a Series 80 and so far resisted making alterations until I fire it a lot more and see what it does or doesn't like. But I am considering what could/should be done to make it reliable.

[C. Latch]

If you look at a side view of the interface between the FPS and the hammer, you'll see that it's the FPS that pushes the hammer to the cocked position as the action cycles during recoil. With a deep radius, the FPS pushes from a higher spot on the hammer, giving it a greater mechanical advantage, making it easier to cock the hammer, meaning that the pistol expends less recoil energy cocking the hammer, leaving more energy to operate the slide.

Change to a FPS with a lower-sitting radius, and the mechanical leverage over the hammer is reduced (as the pressure point sits closer to the axis around which the hammer rotates) and more recoil energy is used up in cocking the hammer, leaving less to operate the slide, meaning less leftover energy to batter the frame at the end of the slide's rearward travel.

[littlejack]

Latch:
Very well explained.
Jack

[StrawHat]

If you look at a side view of the interface between the FPS and the hammer, you'll see that it's the FPS that pushes the hammer to the cocked position as the action cycles during recoil. With a deep radius, the FPS pushes from a higher spot on the hammer, giving it a greater mechanical advantage, making it easier to cock the hammer, meaning that the pistol expends less recoil energy cocking the hammer, leaving more energy to operate the slide.

Change to a FPS with a lower-sitting radius, and the mechanical leverage over the hammer is reduced (as the pressure point sits closer to the axis around which the hammer rotates) and more recoil energy is used up in cocking the hammer, leaving less to operate the slide, meaning less leftover energy to batter the frame at the end of the slide's rearward travel.

Thank you, a little beyond my ken, but I will study it and understand.

[Good Cheer]

Isn't the best way to have a bullet of approximately 230 grains that is designed to feed reliably as well as mushroom without applying excessive force to the firearm?
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/mysterymetal_zpsb27efe0f.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/mysterymetal_zpsb27efe0f.jpg.html)

[Good Cheer]

That's some really weirdo chemical plant piping recovered alloy. Check out this broken ingot.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/mysterymetal_zpsc04b68ef.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/mysterymetal_zpsc04b68ef.jpg.html)