If you could have only ONE 45/70 mould...

[dlbarr]

Got started boolit casting about 2 yrs ago. Have two, maybe three 45/70s: a NEF/H&R Handi-Rifle w/22" barrel, a 32" BC barrel to go with and a 1895 Marlin. Early on, I read from a very credible source (if I mentioned the name, you'd know him) that for a guy like me that hunts and shoots only informally, the mould to have is the Lyman 457193.

On that say-so, I promptly went out & bought one and got about casting, loading & shooting those approx 400gr boolits. Shot pretty good too. Have yet to harvest game with one, but that's coming...

However, since this purchase, I've heard/read many times that for the 45/70 shooter that needs ONLY ONE mould, it should be the RCBS 45-400-FN. You can buy that mould and never think of another one. I'm not even the least little bit unhappy with #457193. But I have lost sleep at night over this...well, maybe not ALL night, but you know..

So, what is special about this RCBS mould? What's it got that the 457193 (or any other mould) hasn't got?? Very curious as to why the RCBS gets such high marks over the many others that must be available...I'm sure I don't know the half of it.

[GoodOlBoy]

If I was to only have a single 45-70 mold it would be the Lee hollow Base mold. SKU#90268 459-405-HB

GoodOlBoy

[Catshooter]

dl,

If you're happy with the Lyman I wouldn't worry about it. I prefer Lyman/Ideals over all others for a variety of reasons.

RCBS moulds are top notch, don't get me wrong. And I'm sure that the 45-400 is a fine one. But unless you just want one, why try to fix what ain't broke?

Welcome to the forum too.


Cat

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

My Steve Brooks PP 520gr. At the present time, all of my 45 caliber rifles are Sharps single shots.

[Beagle333]

Nothin's wrong with the 457193, but thank goodness we don't have to have just one mold... of any caliber. :mrgreen:
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/march2003_zpsf4c2aefc.jpg

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/PowderCoating/march2004_zpsa36091b4.jpg

[Lead Fred]

I have the only mold I use for my lever

The core of my kill anything that walks on the planet round

116509

[MBTcustom]

I have the 457193, the Ranch Dog 350, and the Accurate 46-405K
The 457193 has a problem in the 1895 in that the nose is too long to both fit the throat and feed, to say nothing of the fact that those rifles need a boolit with a diameter of .460.
The 46-405K drops .460, feeds like a champ, and hits like a hammer.
The RD 350 eats gas checks, but fits like a glove, and hits hard.
Of the three, the RD and the Accurate are the best, and I can't decide between the two which I like better, but I have to confess, I lean towards the Accurate.
If you have a rifle with a groove diameter of .455-.456, then the Lyman would do very well. I just haven't ever found a rifle with that tight a groove diameter yet.

[Bohica793]

I have the Handi 45-70 and started out with the Lyman 457193. Unfortunately, I found that I needed to size at .459 for best accuracy and the Lyman just wasn't cutting it. I recently acquired a NOE 460-405 (Swede's version of the 457193) which sizes perfectly to .459 and produces 1-2" groups at 100 yards. This is my 4th NOE mold and I will keep going back for more as I need them.

[lotech]

Regarding your question about the #193 vs. the similar RCBS mould, I've used both in a variety of rifles. I could tell no appreciable difference in accuracy or anything else, except the RCBS design is cut for a gas check. MY RCBS mould is long gone. However, if you plan on shooting at higher velocities, I suppose the RCBS gas check design might have an advantage over the Lyman plain base.

[pworley1]

I have several, but if I could only have one it would be the Lyman 457193.

[country gent]

I have 3 molds for 45 that I use in 45-70 and 45-90 both lyman 457125 420 grn roundnose ( lapped out to fit bores and drop at .459), A Lyman postell 535 grairn ( converted to nose pour just cause I could do it myself) and a Steve Brooks adjustable PP money style that casts from 400-600 grns. All shoot extremely well in both rifles and seem to work in any rifle we put them in. If it works why worry about it.

[Larry Gibson]

"only one mould"

Why?

Larry Gibson

[Cowboy_Dan]

"only one mould"

Why?

Larry Gibson

I might ask the op's question about different calibers. Not because I want to limit myself, but bcause the answer from experienced casters would probably be a good choice for a first mold, especially since I am just getting started myself. Although that doesn't seem to be the op's motivation.

[Tom Trevor]

My Paul Jones 45010 casting at .462 diameter for my 45-70 Springfield.

[dlbarr]

..... However, if you plan on shooting at higher velocities, I suppose the RCBS gas check design might have an advantage over the Lyman plain base.
So by "higher velocities" how fast are you referring?

[g.man10mm]

My favorite is the NOE 460-405 RG-2 GC version. It casts a 385gr flat point with my alloy (RS/lino 10:1 blend, water-dropped to 25 BHN) that feeds 100% in my Marlin and refuses to lead even driven to Buffalo Bore/Garrett levels. It's my go-to close-range selection for Alaska as well as elk and black bear in the lower 48. The HP is around 360 if I recall correctly and makes a good general purpose, target, soft-skinned game bullet.

[lotech]

As a rough estimate, I'm referring to velocities in excess of 1,500-1,600 fps with good accuracy and no leading. However, alloy and bullet fit must be perfect or very close to it for such results with a plain base bullet. The gas check adds a degree of forgiveness if all is not quite right with alloy strength and fit. Just makes things a little easier.

Like many of us have found, recoil becomes a significant factor anytime you shoot 400+ grain bullets at higher velocities. Personally, 1,300 - 1,400 fps is plenty with a .45-70, particularly if the rifle is on the light side. The #193 bullet is an excellent one; so is the RCBS gas-checked version. After years of shooting these heavier bullets, I find the Lyman #457122 HP at about 330 grains at 1,500 fps to be ideal for .45-70 shooting and and it's as accurate as the other two at typical .45-70 hunting ranges, 125 yards or so.

[plainsman456]

I have 1 mold for the 45-70 as of now.
It's from MM molds and it weights 325+-.
The way its working now i can't really see why i would need another.

OK,maybe one about 400+- for the really large and scary critters.:kidding::grin:

[runfiverun]

mine is super close to lead fred's it's even made by the same company.

unfortunately it's on loan from another member so I really don't have a 45/70 mold.
but I have made a couple thousand of them so far, so I should be just about all set for forever,,,,, I guess.
maybe after another session or two.

[Bigslug]

However, since this purchase, I've heard/read many times that for the 45/70 shooter that needs ONLY ONE mould. . .

and you'll hear this at least once - That is a REALLY stupid notion!!!

Don't get me wrong - I like the RCBS 405 FPGC a lot. It's a screaming accurate slug for short/middle distances. If all you had was the short barrels, you could own that mold and be very happy.

HOWEVER: You have in your 32" barrel the potential for some truly impressive long range work. There is the 1884 500 grain government slug, the NASA's, the Money, the Postell - all suitable for reaching across multiple zip codes.

One mold for .45-70?? That's crazy talk!

[TXGunNut]

One mold for .45-70?? That's crazy talk!-Bigslug

Maybe not crazy but certainly not very interesting.

[dlbarr]

....One mold for .45-70?? That's crazy talk!

:mrgreen: BigSlug, that made me laugh! Just for the record, I do have more than one mould for my 45/70s. I was just curious about the notoriety that the rcbs bullet had gotten from several sources. Appreciate your view.

[zuke]

I'm very happy with my NOE 330gr GC HP 5 cavity

[SniderBoomer]

Second this, I went for the PB RG mold, best damned 45-70 Gvt boolit I ever used in my 1895.

Beautifully made molds. You chaps are very lucky to have such great mold craftsmen in the USA. Who needs China...


My favorite is the NOE 460-405 RG-2 GC version. It casts a 385gr flat point with my alloy (RS/lino 10:1 blend, water-dropped to 25 BHN) that feeds 100% in my Marlin and refuses to lead even driven to Buffalo Bore/Garrett levels. It's my go-to close-range selection for Alaska as well as elk and black bear in the lower 48. The HP is around 360 if I recall correctly and makes a good general purpose, target, soft-skinned game bullet.

[Rod B]

I have had excellent results from my 457125 Lyman mold. I bought this used from a shooting buddy, it is date stamped 1977

[John Allen]

If I only could have one I would take the RCBS 405 flat nose.

[dlbarr]

Second this, I went for the PB RG mold, best damned 45-70 Gvt boolit I ever used in my 1895.


SB, so with the PB bullet, how do you build rest of your load? My original understanding was that w/o a GC, you'll get leading at higher velocities. Would be interested in knowing how you are avoiding that problem.

[dlbarr]

If I only could have one I would take the RCBS 405 flat nose.

Ah-HAH! So you're one of those I was referring to in my OP.

Care to explain yourself? I am very interested...

[Artful]

I would not like to be limited to one but for one gun I like this one mold
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/Boolit/Custom458LoverinonWinchesterblock1cavinside_zpse9c e65fd.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/FAL/Boolit/Custom458LoverinonWinchesterblock1cavinside_zpse9c e65fd.jpg.html)

Another gun seems to like this one
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/FAL/Boolit/Lyman457124RN_zpsab5f10ce.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/rowdyfisk/media/FAL/Boolit/Lyman457124RN_zpsab5f10ce.jpg.html)

[longbow]

Artful:

I used to have the same Lyman 457124 mould I used for my 1970's vintage 1895 and loved it as did the gun. I shot it over both smokeless and BP and it did very well with both propellants. I preferred it to the 405 gr. flat point.

In fact I ran that PB boolit up to max. Marlin loads according to Hornady and had no leading problems at all.

Certainly it is not a boolit for reaching out and touching things at long range and it probably isn't as good as some others for hunting but it sure shot well for me.

I would like my old 1895 and that mould back again.

If I could only have one though I would have to think on it some... do I want to shoot 1000 yards? Do I want to hunt? Do I want to plink? Do I want to punch paper at 100 to 200 yards? Nope one isn't enough in any caliber!

I love all my moulds, each and every one and the multiples I have for each caliber. One is just not enough... for me anyway.

Longbow

[Good Cheer]

My 45-70 shooting turned into 45-90. Not using brass any more.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/My45rifle_zpsca0189c6.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/My45rifle_zpsca0189c6.jpg.html)

The peep is set for 457124 with 90 grains.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/NewEnglanderandLyman457124_zps8b48b4ba.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/NewEnglanderandLyman457124_zps8b48b4ba.jpg.html)

[SniderBoomer]

SB, so with the PB bullet, how do you build rest of your load? My original understanding was that w/o a GC, you'll get leading at higher velocities. Would be interested in knowing how you are avoiding that problem.

Well I've been up to 1700 fps or so according to load data, I never had any fouling so far. For target/plinking sessions that's plenty enough for my shoulder over these hours of fun...

I lube with Ben's Red, that boolit does take a goodly amount of lube which I'm sure helps. So far have used powders H4198, Benchmark and 5744. Hardness, I usually cast around BHN 14-15 but have a nice supply of Antimony if I need to get much harder. I size to 459. Fatter really works well. I got lots of fouling in my bore with 457 cast bullets.

As a habit now, I end each range session with 3 paper-patch soft-lead cast loads, cleans every last trace of lead away even if there was any...

[dlbarr]

What is the difference between the NOE RF & RG mould?

[g.man10mm]

[QUOTE=dlbarr;2949133]What is the difference between the NOE RF & RG mould?[/QUOTE

The RG mold has pins to cast either HP or solid (RF) from the same mold.

[dlbarr]

[QUOTE=dlbarr;2949133]What is the difference between the NOE RF & RG mould?[/QUOTE

The RG mold has pins to cast either HP or solid (RF) from the same mold.

2nd question: I can see the difference from what I call the "regular" NOE mould & the "Ranch Dog". But what is the purpose of this difference in configuration?

[Lead Fred]

@1400fps a 405gr boolit will penetrate 8 feet 6 inches of meat at 100 yards

Why would one ever want to go any faster?

[RobsTV]

If I was to only have a single 45-70 mold it would be the Lee hollow Base mold. SKU#90268 459-405-HB

GoodOlBoy

Shooting only black powder in my 45-70, I'll also vote for this Lee HB mold as the only one needed. The BP also drives the 405gr lead boolit at 1400fps, a tack driver every shot.

[DeanWinchester]

If a person has a goal in mind and is content once reaching that goal, searching for one mold is not insanity. I'm very much of like mind and once i find a boolit that shoots well in a particular gun and performs on target like I want, I tend to part with everything else.

Finding that one mold/load combo can be very frustrating though.

[btroj]

I own 5 or more moulds for 45-70 but only use one.

Mine is an old Lee GB mould but it is very similar to this from NOE.

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p733/Btroj/imagejpg1_zpsdc86e444.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Btroj/media/imagejpg1_zpsdc86e444.jpg.html)

Does all all I need from my Marlin. I like to keep it simple and using a single bullet makes it simple.

[dlbarr]

I own 5 or more moulds for 45-70 but only use one.

Mine is an old Lee GB mould but it is very similar to this from NOE.

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p733/Btroj/imagejpg1_zpsdc86e444.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Btroj/media/imagejpg1_zpsdc86e444.jpg.html)

Does all all I need from my Marlin. I like to keep it simple and using a single bullet makes it simple.

So you shoot a PB bullet in your Marlin? What is your load? I was under the impression that GCs were pretty much necessary when shooting lead bullets at reasonable hunting velocities...

[btroj]

With an alloy that is roughly 3% Sb and 1 % Sn I can get 1600 fps with H322 pretty easily. I can get better than 10 accurate shots before leading becomes an issue. I am sure that with some work I could go faster by using a bit of shot buffer under the bullet to help protect the bullet base. I have also always wanted to try a small disk of wax under the bullet but have never gotten around to it.

In my own experience I have found that the larger the bullet diameter, in general, the easier it is to go faster without a gas check. A 30 cal is hard to get over 1400 without a check but a 45 is pretty easy. Those are generalizations based on my personal experience.

I don't shoot many loads going that fast, I find a 420 grant bullet at 1400 fps is pretty good.