water quenching

[colbyjack]

so does it make a difference if i drop my boolits into water right out of the mould? if so just a touch and not worth it? or should one be doing this? .45 acp boolits. thanks -chris

[felix]

You should not need hard boolits in a 1911. Air cooled WW should be plenty hard enough. ... felix

[wiljen]

I'll second Felix, water quenching 45 ACPs just makes em harder to size - don't bother. I drop mine out of the mold onto an old towel just to keep em from getting banged up and let em cool there. If you don't wanna lube before you size (when using lee push throughs) a little soapy water on the bullets helps sizing go easier. Then simply water rinse em - let em dry and lube em up.

[imashooter2]

Water quenching WW will add considerable hardness and I agree with felix that the added hardness is not required for most handgun applications. That said, I find water quenching easier and more convenient than air cooling. I only air cool applications where hard doesn't work.

[trickyasafox]

I water quench, not because i need it - just because its easy.

[dubber123]

I have been fooling around alot lately with different bhn's. In every instance so far, a softer boolit, on the order of air cooled WW's has leaded noticeably LESS, than a harder boolit. I have gone to 1,800 fps in a rifle and it holds true to at least that level too. One gun runs at about 50,000 PSI, and that one too leads less with a softer boolit. I didn't believe it till I tried it.

[felix]

Remember, dubber, that it is the composition of the lead that is most important in terms of leading. A very hard boolit with sufficient tin to "cover" the antimony will not lead, assuming a good boolit fit. The leading smear you see in the barrel from high speed boolits is not leading per se, but antimony wash. That wash typically will not accumulate. If it does, you will see the accuracy degrade far earlier than you will see guaranteed wash. Besides, many lots of the military powders have enough calcium to appear as a wash as well. Again, it goes back to your accuracy criteria and the number of rounds shot before accuracy is no longer appreciative. For example, I typically shoot 35-75 rounds on a given day, and I always save the larger targets towards the end of the outing. ... felix

[colbyjack]

im not using WW, just some mixture of lead and tin that i got from a family member. its not too hard but its not soft as pure lead. i can scratch it and it gets a small ding if dropped on the concrete floor.

i didnt know if water quenching could make them a touch harder or if i should just leave them soft. a buddy said there hard enough but not hard as store bought cast. -chris

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

If you're concerned about hardness, try this experiment:

Cast up 20 onto a towel and let air dry.

Cast up 20 and drop them into a gallon jug of water.

Make sure to keep them separate and labeled.

Size and lube per your normal method, treat both them same.

Load per your normal method being sure to label the boxes.

Take the range along with a cleaning kit capable of getting out a small amount of lead and fire them, the air cooled first and the water cooled second.

Record results, both for accuracy and leading.

I suspect that if the mix of lead and tin is good in your lead, the air cooled will do better than the water cooled in the .45 ACP. But this test will settle the question for you.

Regards,

Dave

[mroliver77]

I have shot many Water quenched WW in the .45ACP and while they dont need to be this hard I did not get leading at all and they are as accurate as I can shoot. This was when I did not know that the wild WW are an endangered species. I seem to have a knack to finding soft lead but WW are limited. I stretch that antimony as much as possible now and Water dropping is a great way to harden boolits and much faster in my opinion. Funny thing is I have a pile of scrap from an indoor pistol range that seems to see mostly jacketed bullet use. I air cooled some boolits and water dropped some from this batch and did get some hardening . I'll take it.:)
J

[cbrick]

im not using WW, just some mixture of lead and tin that i got from a family member. its not too hard but its not soft as pure lead. i can scratch it and it gets a small ding if dropped on the concrete floor.

i didnt know if water quenching could make them a touch harder or if i should just leave them soft. a buddy said there hard enough but not hard as store bought cast. -chris

Chris, no way to know what your lead may be but if there is no antimony in it quenching or even oven heat treating will not harden them. Harder should not be needed with a low pressure cartridge like the 45 ACP.

I'll second everything Felix said and add some emphasis on bullet fit and tin. Again, no idea what your alloy is but adding a couple percent by weight of tin could, maybe, possibly be beneficial.

Rick

[jtaylor1960]

When I cast my bullets from WW + 2% tin I have 11bhn. without and 20bhn. with quenching.Which should be good for most shooting or hunting situations depending on the operating pressures and intended game.

[mroliver77]

When I cast my bullets from WW + 2% tin I have 11bhn. without and 20bhn. with quenching.Which should be good for most shooting or hunting situations depending on the operating pressures and intended game.

When using the somewhat accepted formula for brinell hardness and chamber pressure 11 brinell gives a max pressure of aprox142000 psi while the 20 brinell allows 25500psi. Pushing a 230gr lead to close to 900fps takes approx 17000-19000psi which translates to approx 13 - 15 brinnell. This is not set in stone but is a pretty fair guideline. I posted as a JFYI.
J

[jrgift]

I have to agree with mroliver .Depending on the composition of the WW I can get a 20 brinell with water drop and 12 brinell air cooled.

[bobthenailer]

the only way i cast my bullets is water quenching right from the mould into a 7 gallon bucket of water, been doing it that way for over 20 years, it really speeds up production and accuracy is top notch, the only draw back is i size right after casting ! let them sit for a day and they are very hard to push through the sizer but having 2 star lube/sizers really helps in this department, i use water quenched bullets for all guns at all velocties

[45 2.1]

If you cut your WW with very soft lead ( 35%WW/65%Pb up to 50%WW/50%Pb) and water drop, you might have a pleasant surprise waiting for you.