The reality of the horse and ranching by Duke Nukem

[Just Duke]

We started this proposed ranching venture 9 years ago.
Now that Barbie broke her leg it looks like she won't be able to exert that much pressure on her leg to mount up.
Well they said she could but due to the diagonal double break I don't feel she should at her age. Were 56.
Also looking at the X-ray I myself decided I didn't want to end up like her either. At my age.
Barbie was thinking she wouldn't be able to get her cows.
I told her I have seen guys in Montana and WY using ATV's and side by sides to run and keep an eye on cows.
Were opting for side by sides or UTV's as they call them. Kawasaki Terex 4 looks to fit the bill.

[Bulldogger]

No harm done in trying Duke. There's nothing wrong with going old-fashioned for the experience. Now you will appreciate the modern conveniences and they will boost your productivity. Along the way you picked up some skills that many have lost or forgotten or never even known or heard of.

Best wishes for speedy recovery to Barbie. Please keep us updated and I'm sure you'll share your observations on the experience of updating to modern tools from your pre-industrial beginning approach.

Bulldogger

[HeavyMetal]

Horse's are nice to look at, have great appeal to the past we all wish was still here, but I have never done well with them in a one on one setting!

Just to much animal to work with that can misunderstand what you want when you want it!

Bikes, ATV's etc don't think and are some what safer from that point of view but they can still be put in positions where you get hurt so be careful with them as well.


Some where along the line I had missed the move to ranching as a business, thinking you and Barbie were just looking to minimize "crowding" and Barbie was still doing the legal work in an office.

Hence my confusion when I read she had fallen at work, that is one tough law office, LOL!

Hope she recovers quickly and life gets better for both of you.

[Love Life]

Welcome to the present!!! Now dye your hair black, wear your sister's pants, and get you a smart phone!

[Just Duke]

Welcome to the present!!! Now dye your hair black, wear your sister's pants, and get you a smart phone!


Smart phone? Who would call me?

[Mumblypeg]

Let's face it. I have always liked horses but they are bigger than we are and have a mind of their own and sooner or later they will hurt you. As one said, they are nice to look at.... I don't know how anyone runs a farm without an ATV. My 4 wheeler has wooden boxes mounted ford and aft and I can carry way more things on it than a horse, it doesn't move when I park it, I don't have to feed it when I'm not using it, I don't have to brush it down etc. I could go on and on. The Polaris Rangers or similar are great for more occupants. There is plenty to choose from and you will wonder why you didn't get one long before now. The horse on the farm has become just a pet and yard ornament though she was a good ride an at some point we get too old for that anyway. Sometimes you just have to mix the old with the new cause life doesn't get any easier as we age. Rest up and take care of her leg first.

[Just Duke]

Horse's are nice to look at, have great appeal to the past we all wish was still here, but I have never done well with them in a one on one setting!

Just to much animal to work with that can misunderstand what you want when you want it!

Bikes, ATV's etc don't think and are some what safer from that point of view but they can still be put in positions where you get hurt so be careful with them as well.


Some where along the line I had missed the move to ranching as a business, thinking you and Barbie were just looking to minimize "crowding" and Barbie was still doing the legal work in an office.

Hence my confusion when I read she had fallen at work, that is one tough law office, LOL!

Hope she recovers quickly and life gets better for both of you.

She cocktails now and for the last 12 years also.

[Love Life]

Smart phone? Who would call me?

Friends? Family? Telemarketers?

[John Allen]

Adam, I have one of the six wheel gators they are great. I would however recommend on of the standard 4 wheel ones over the 6 wheeler. The 6 wheeler can haul a ton of weight but frankly it has no suspension so it can be a rough ride. I really like the step in gators over ATV's They are just more comfortable.

[Just Duke]

Friends? Family? Telemarketers?

I'll have to check and see if anyone want to be my friend. I think most just tolerate me for entertainment value.

[Just Duke]

Adam, I have one of the six wheel gators they are great. I would however recommend on of the standard 4 wheel ones over the 6 wheeler. The 6 wheeler can haul a ton of weight but frankly it has no suspension so it can be a rough ride. I really like the step in gators over ATV's They are just more comfortable.

We have been looking at the Kawasaki TEREX 4 for awhile. We like the 4 seater.

[jumbeaux]

Have y'all ever raised cattle ? While it can be "romantic" it is pretty darn hard work. Cattle prices are very high presently and the equipment required is not cheap. Cattle ranching as a business takes very deep pockets. From what I have read y'all don't currently own any ranch property. If y'all want the experience ease on down toward one of the big feed lots around Amarillo and hire out as hands...riding fence will cure any doubts you may have had involving raising cattle.

rick

[Just Duke]

Have y'all ever raised cattle ? While it can be "romantic" it is pretty darn hard work. Cattle prices are very high presently and the equipment required is not cheap. Cattle ranching as a business takes very deep pockets. From what I have read y'all don't currently own any ranch property. If y'all want the experience ease on down toward one of the big feed lots around Amarillo and hire out as hands...riding fence will cure any doubts you may have had involving raising cattle.

rick

I get responses like this twice a year. <eyes rolling>
I have no choice as far as getting cows go. I also don't plan on opening up a feed lot nor feed cows corn. Tell all that to the Africans and they'll laugh as they have been doing cattle 5000 years before TX was a state.
They are for us......to eat.........
Anyway what I intend to do with funds from liquidated homes is my own business.
I'm also appalled that you feel that the rest of us have never had to work hard for a living as I gather.

Perhaps it is you that are making it hard for yourself
I mean seriously. Your not out riding on a sickle mower pulled by two draft horses to put hay up for the winter.
Yes http://www.landandfarm.com/ states TX has 36,982 ranches for sale. Hmmmmm Someones surely not doing something right that's for sure.
I have also recently given up any desire to move to another "Police State" that's basically was worse than CA as of two years ago.

I take posts like this personally.
People try to stone wall me by telling me "hey you can't do what I do because you have never done it before"
They told me that about leather work, they told me about wood working, they also told me that about casting bullets.
That's like telling a 21 year old couple that "you never had children so you know nothing about raising children so you should really think about sitting in front of the idiot box and watching re-runs instead of having children"

The other is I'm am usually dissuaded by someone else that profits from the many fabrication venues I'm pursuing in lieu on feared financial competition.

And to the others out there. Were getting the cows! Period! y'all

[LUBEDUDE]

I know a lot of people in their 50's/60's and 70's who have permanent limps and/or other serious injuries due to horses.

Some like you have learned to let go and get rid of them. Others still think that they are 20 years old and are still riding.

I even new a waterski prodigy that had shattered all regional titles. He was on his way to becoming a World Champion Super Star. His parents spent hundred of thousands on this kid; even built him two private ski lakes!
That all ended in a blink of an eye when his horse stepped on his foot.
Six different surgeries in Dallas could not bring him back to normal.

You made a wise decision Duke.

[doc1876]

Polaris has one that has a fence post pounder as an option on it, it is one of the coolest things I have ever seen. You might consider a shorter horse, so you don't have to jump too high to get into the saddle, I know I have used a picnic table more than once!

[garym1a2]

I see cows as a lot easier than Horses, they don't eat as much. You don't have to do the feet every 8 weeks at $20 a pop or more. If they break a leg you just eat then. Plus if you have good grass they keep it mowed.
I like the small Toyota Pickup for a general ranch hauler.

[bdicki]

If you hang around horses long enough you understand why they invented tractors.

[Just Duke]

Thanks guys. Steaks on me. lol

[Beagle333]

My experiences with them: Cows = good. Horses = bad. Mustangs = worse. .... gimme the cows any day. 8-)

[jumbeaux]

Duke I tell ya I don't see anywhere in my post that I questioned your work ethic, ability or desire...just trying my best to give you some unsolicited advice about ranching. I really could care less about liquidating houses, income or feeding cows in Africa. But, I have messed with cows and I was trying to suggest hiring out someplace and really seeing if you like the business. The slap about Texas is expected but not warranted...no slight intended on my part regarding your dreams. Heck jump in with both feet and get wet...btw steers taste better than cows...

rick

[smokeywolf]

Spent a fair amount of time around horses. Was on horseback before I was out of diapers. Would love to have horses again. Never suffered a long term disability from one. Been bucked off, scraped off, bitten and stepped on. Over the years had all my toes broken by Ginger, my little 3/4 Arab mare. She used to casually place her left forefoot on my foot while I cinched her up. She might have done more damage but she only weighed about 900 lbs. and change.

Trained horses for the National Park Service for a couple of years. They had top notch Quarter Horses donated to them.

Now to the present; pushing 60, back and hip problems, tendinitis in arms and ankles, arthritis most everywhere. Having horses again is probably not in my future.

smokeywolf

[leadman]

Having sustained many injuries to my body over my younger years I can state from fact that they remind you of their presence when you are older!
When I wake up in the morning I lay there a minute so I can figure out the least painful way to get out of bed.
Use any mechanical means available to make the wear and strain on your body less.

[Goatwhiskers]

My wife (60+) still rides and barrel races. People ask me why I don't ride with her, I blame it on global warming. That ground has gotten a lot harder in the last 40 years, don't feel like taking inventory every time I get dumped. As far as cows, I sold 'em all back in the '80's to get rich raising soybeans, didn't happen, wound up as a rural carrier. This time of year, I miss 'em, January and February not so much. GW

[montana_charlie]

I told her I have seen guys in Montana and WY using ATV's and side by sides to run and keep an eye on cows.
If you want an ATV to replace a horse, you want one that is as manuverable as possible.
One with two-wheel drive ... or one that can shift out of four wheel drive ... will turn sharper without rolling over.
Even then, a cow can easily cut back on you.

A side-by-side is even less useful unless you are just using it to 'observe'.


CM

[StolzerandSons]

Been on horses pretty much all of my life, riding on my own since I was maybe 4 or 5. In high school I worked part time as a ranch hand and did a lot of day riding for local ranches while working a full time job when I was in my early 20's, then when I was 25 I was out gathering cattle for a friend's ranch and was thrown from a borrowed horse. I landed on a rock the size of a basketball and broke my right hip, broke my pelvis at all 4 corners and split my tail bone long ways. Since then I have only been back in the saddle a handful of times for parades and I haven't owned a horse of my own in 15 years. I don't miss having them around one bit, matter of fact the money I save on not having them around affords me some other fun things.

My wife has an Arabian Mule that she runs with our other livestock...that thing loves my wife and doesn't like me at all, so I don't mess with it anymore than I have to, if it wasn't for the great job she does babysitting the goats, I'd get rid of her too.

Colin

[jumbeaux]

I get responses like this twice a year. <eyes rolling>






Yes http://www.landandfarm.com/ states TX has 36,982 ranches for sale. Hmmmmm Someones surely not doing something right that's for sure.
I have also recently given up any desire to move to another "Police State" that's basically was worse than CA as of two years ago.







y'all

Hey Duke if you are going to post a link about ranches for sale you ought to check it out first...you site includes property as small as .17 acres, lake lots, residential properties etc...1 acre doesn't equal a ranch (however, you can feed out your beef on a small lot)...Duke "big hat...no cattle..."...you probably wouldn't understand that...but your can always look it up on the net...

rick

[merlin101]

If you hang around horses long enough you understand why they invented tractors.
:goodpost:

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I had an Arabian stallion for several years and I never tried to ride him. He was given to me by a neighbor who had raised the breed and was getting out of the business. The stallion never made any attempt to hurt either my wife are me but he was all muscle and spooked easily. I was standing at the fence of his pasture talking to him one day while rubbing his neck when a bird flew close by his right eye. In an instant he was at the other end of the pasture. He spun around so fast I don't see how any rider, no matter how experienced could have stayed aboard. I would play games with him however, like keep away, involving a five gallon bucket. One day he put his head down to pick up the bucket and he jammed his head in so far he couldn't shake it off. Since he couldn't see he became very scared and took off as hard as he could go, right at me. I was lucky he just brushed past me. It would have made a funny video, not for me of course. When we put our property up for sale I gave the horse to a neighbor. He was and still is a beautiful horse and to this day he has never been ridden. He was fifteen years old last January. He is red with a white blaze and white socks. I called him Tabasco. I will try to post his picture later.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Here is Tabasco. As beautiful as horses are, remember what Robert Duval said about them. They aren't dogs, they don't love you.

[Multigunner]

There was a news story on TV long ago about an elderly lady who couldn't ride a horse any more training an old cow as her steed and riding fence.
The old cow took to her duties quite well. The saddle looked to be a standard western saddle, not noticably modified.
A few Zebras have been broken as mounts, the largest breed is near as big as a horse. Apparently they can be trained to make a decent cow pony.

I read of an army officer presenting an elderly Indian chief with a special saddle made from a army issue pack saddle. The old Indian was too stove up from battle injuries to sit a horse and was losing respect of his warriors, the officer wanted the old chief to stay in power because he knew him and could deal with him better than with the younger warriors.
The whole shebang was covered with blankets so it wasn't immediately obvious that it was a saddle with back brace built in.

[starmac]

Horses can and will hurt you, no doubt about it. With my back, I would never ride one a hundred yards again, if you offered me a whole herd to do it. That said, depending on the ranch, there is times a dirt bike or atv just can't take the place of a horse, and I had a rank steer take me right off a dirt bike before, that was no easy landing either. lol

[Hardcast416taylor]

I was wondering when reading all of these posts about "cows". Steers are meat animals while cows are milk animals. You can butcher a cow, believe me when I say you`ll prefer eating meat from a steer instead. I`ve been around long enough to say I have used horse drawn farming equipment for cutting hay and cutting and gathering the corn shocks from making them on a horse drawn corn binder and putting the shocks on a horse drawn wagon to take up to a gas powered silo filler. All things considered about horses and farm work nowadays is look at the horse and then buy anything gas or diesel powered to do the work.Robert.

[blademasterii]

My parents have 5 acres and have talked about raising a few walking steaks. At the price of beef these days it probably will pay for itself between the meat and the agricultural tax break. When we lived up north we always had a few, but that was 25 years ago. :D Then again if they do decide to get them guess who gets to build fence.... Store bought steak doesn't look so bad. :D

[JeffinNZ]

Early days still. She might surprise you as she heals.

ATV's and UTV's are just "iron horses". Life is about compromise after all.

[Mumblypeg]

This could go on for a while.... My ATV is a Honda Rancher(even the name sounds good). Talk about getting on and off of it... well... often I just sit side saddle on it if I'm just mosying along. Had a young bull get too big for his britches once and didn't want to go to the hamburger factory. He busted out of the fence, went down the road and across to the hay field. After fixing the fence I went down the road and was working him back to the pasture. He kept trying to out run and out maneuver me but after a few tries he just gave up and went back the pasture. He always had a funny look on his face after that but he was thinking and we kept a close watch on him when we were around him because you just never knew what he was thinking... the next try he went to the sale..... end of that story. I have found very few places that I cannot go with that thing that I NEED to go. I did however, put a wench on it after dropping it off in a boggy creek late one evening. I call it my Little Mule... BTW... fences are for honest cows(steers) and are more about trees... as in if one falls, it will be on a fence.

[Wayne Smith]

From my limited experience with cattle in Northern Virginia years ago - fences. They take continuous work and, when you have a cow that jumps, you chase cow rather than fence higher. This cow didn't get it in her mind often to get out but when she did get it in her mind she went. Fences, and these were bob wire, require continuous work in a wet, humid, environment. Fortunately Black Locust fence posts didn't, but they bent staples when dry!

If you can handle fences you can handle beef cattle. Have a loading chute unless you plan on doing your own slaughtering and butchering. My dream would be beefalo, at least 50/50 for lean meat and weather extreme resistance.

[MtGun44]

Had a Welsh pony in the family when I was a teen. Eventually I got a serious kick injury, but have
recovered from that after several surgeries over the years (happened over 40 years ago). Rode the
neighbor's horse off and on until I left college and moved away. Even today, I do ride
outfitters horses to hunt on those rare occasions when I can afford a guided hunt, and I do know
how to ride fairly well. I have covered some unbelieveably rough country on and leading a horse, so I
appreciate that I can hunt 20 miles of high country in a long day on horseback or 4-5 miles afoot and at
my age, that is getting hard in the mountains with hunting gear.

In any case - I know horses reasonably well and respect the heck out of them in the sense that they can
take a mind to make you a participant in a rodeo without much provocation. Dangerous but useful in
their place. I totally understand the idea of going to a UTV if your land is accessible enough that horses
are not required.

Been thrown a few times - but luckily only got my serious injury (permanent limp) from a motorcycle.
Still ride a small motorcycle sometimes, too. Guess I'm not as smart as I usually think I am, still doing
these things past 60. Sorry to hear about the hunting, but I have been doing less myself, too, so I can
see it.

In any case - good luck with the cows. Worked a feed lot a few summers, too. Hard work when I was
18 and 19, couldn't do a lot of it today. Did run a tractor much of the time, but could not pitch hay bales
into the loft of a barn anymore - thank goodness for round bales!

Best wishes for a quick recovery on Barbie's leg.

Bill

[leeggen]

Duke, good luck with your new adventure. Raise to eat and sell a couple when to many calf at once. Good food supply close at hand.
Seriously I do wish you and the miss good luck and yrs. of enjoyment. I sure enjoy my animals. Raising and just relaxing to watch them.
CD

[BrassMagnet]

I'll have to check and see if anyone want to be my friend. I think most just tolerate me for entertainment value.

OK. OK. Us old reprobates have to hang together...or we will surely hang separately!

Well, maybe I do really have too many anytime minutes. Not!!!

[daniel lawecki]

Go for it Duke It's about what you want not what people post. If someone doesn't think I should or could I prove them dead wrong. So enjoy proving them wrong and by the way I'm two years older than you.[smilie=w:

[Bullwolf]

I was raised on a Farm/Ranch, and practically grew up on horse back.

Had as many as 17 horses at one point, before thinning things down to a more manageable amount of equines.

My favorite was an older quarter horse with a great temperament. He had been used as calming horse around skittish horses at the race track while they worked their way towards, and into the gates. He had also been trained to cut cattle, and was one smart cookie.

I've been bucked from horse back more than a few times, and I also have my fair share of scars, scrapes, and injuries from horses. Fortunately nothing crippling or debilitating injuries, yet I can still predict the weather quite well. You never forget getting the small bones in your foot crunched under a horse hoof. I still wear steel toe boots to this day, and not for fashion reasons.

Fast forward to today, and I no longer have any horses on the Ranch. I also don't see any more in my foreseeable future, unless I let a friend, or a neighbor board a couple. Ive been looking into cattle as well, but again in a much diminished fashion. I may lend/lease off some land just for feed to minimize my mowing duties now that I don't have so many grass munchers around.

I'm not 18 anymore, or in my 20's or 30's or even my early 40's. As I sneak up on my 50's I am just thankful to be as lucky as I was, and to still be somewhat mobile.

I vote for the ATV. The ATV or the tractor is how I do my little errands and chores now when I'm not driving the truck, or walking around on foot.

Hope that Barbie heals up quickly.



- Bullwolf

[MT Gianni]

A close friend runs 350 pair. He has a duaghter that rodeos but she is the only roper in the family. He hunts off of horses and brings them off the summer range with them but that is all. Another friend and his father manage a 660 pair ranch. Due to his fathers many horse wrecks they get it all done off of smaller 4 wheelers, 450 cc max. Reread what Charlie said about a small turning radius when out among cattle. Good luck with it.

[TXGunNut]

As Jeff said it's still early in the healing process, please don't start making lists of things you "can't" do just yet. Hoping a full recovery will leave her options open. I came to an understanding with horses about 20 yrs ago; nobody got hurt but that old horse knew I had no business in a saddle and over the next few hours I learned he was right.
I wish you well in your cattle venture, from what I've seen you can do whatever you set your mind to.

[country gent]

Duke always remeber ATVs dont bite kick rear stomp or get tempremental. Much easier to work with.

[shdwlkr]

Duke
Only you and Barbie know how much you want to put into a cattle operation, how many head you want to deal with and even what you want to do with them in the end.
I am much older than you, still want a 500 acre place to run some cows, grow some wheat and oats and hay. Yes it is work if you think of it as that or it might be where you reconnect with life, death and the world.
I grew up working on a dairy farm and never never again, to much input for too little output or income for those not farm raised.
Right now I am doing my internship and some days are very long, some are short and some are just plain long, but it is all fun until the 90 minute drive home then it can be stressful, exciting, down right boring depending on the traveling public that day.
Most of the work on a farm can be done with equipment today if you are only raising beef animals. If you have feed and can keep them until the price is right or you need meat for the house then it gets easier yet.
Don't let anyone tell you that you can't make a go of it as they have no idea of just what you plan on doing or how much and to what extent. Me I just might end up with 17, 40 or even 500 acres to work and enjoy.
Me I have a broken back that is deteriorating, two shattered knees, arthritis in all my joints, a broken ankle and yes I will have my place one day even if it kills me which it might, but I will die one day anyway so why not go doing something that interests me.

[.45Cole]

Duke, pull up with a bale of hay in your truck when you check them. Every time they see the truck coming they will associate it with hay and come running over. They usually act like 1200lb kindergarteners.

You wouldn't need an atv unless you have tons of cattle. The people I know do fine walking (less than 50 head on less than 50 acres). The more you run them and don't give them time to come to terms with what's going on, the more like sugared kindergarteners they will act.

That's probably more like 4 cents there.

[MaryB]

My grandfather used a horse in the late 60's still to do some farm chores. Pulled a wagon etc. I always got stuck getting her ready and that old nag would always pin me against the side of the pen in the barn and then bite. I finally got tired of it and wrapped a hunk of leather around me knee then some barbed wire. Nag pinned me so I kneed her. She jumped to the other side and stared at me then sidled over to try to pin me again. After the 4th time she never tried to pin me again or bite. Grandpa never did figure out how I cured her of that.

Rode her and some of the neighbors ponies bareback, fell got stomped, got bit, broke ribs... now I am way to beat up to even think about riding anymore. Give me a gas engine and a comfortable seat. If the ATV is going to be easier on her go for it! As far as raising some cattle go for that too! Farm raised beef has spoiled me, I cannot eat store beef anymore.

[starmac]

Duke always remeber ATVs dont bite kick rear stomp or get tempremental. Much easier to work with.

I think I have atv's do all of that, ut at least you don't have to feed them when you aren't riding them. lol

[Russ M]

Or shovel out after you feed them.

[6bg6ga]

Duke,

I'm disappointed with you right now. It seems like you have thrown in the towel and and are ready to quit. I've seen many people fixed up after a break like the wife has. Over the last few years I have enjoyed the conversations we have had over the phone. My advice to you is this... step back take a deep breath and wait before you give up on your dream of the ranch.

As for the rifles.... If you don't hunt anymore then sell them.

The leather work is priceless the saddles are a work of art and to let them go down the road would be a mistake.

Take your time and think. Nothing has to be done right now. Do not make mistakes that you will regret later.

[Wayne Smith]

Humm, I'm of a different generation, or society. Grew up with a Farmall 200, 300, and 20. Moved and the farm had a Cub and a Super A. For most of what you need to do the Cub, A, or Super A equivalent (I don't know current tractors) with the necessary accessories will do all you need. They are designed to pull, cut hay, handle a front end loader, etc. and have been for years. ATV's are all the rage but I doubt they are as versatile as a good tractor.

[shaggybull]

I work my cows from on foot and atv. I've got mine so I can call them and they come running. I have the bull broke to halter, I throw a rope on him and lead him as needed they rest follow as needed.

[Just Duke]

Duke,

I'm disappointed with you right now. It seems like you have thrown in the towel and and are ready to quit. I've seen many people fixed up after a break like the wife has. Over the last few years I have enjoyed the conversations we have had over the phone. My advice to you is this... step back take a deep breath and wait before you give up on your dream of the ranch.

As for the rifles.... If you don't hunt anymore then sell them.

The leather work is priceless the saddles are a work of art and to let them go down the road would be a mistake.

Take your time and think. Nothing has to be done right now. Do not make mistakes that you will regret later.

I'm not giving up the dream of getting it.
Let's go back to the beginning.
Originally we were going to do a horse packing outfit out of N. Idaho or Yakk/Eureka Montana. Some malevolent entity decided they didn't want people able to live off the land so to say up that way so they brought in the wolf under the guise of some "Eco hippie" re-population project.
As time went on the Elk population went down 80%.
So we figure we better make our own food and not depend on someone else to do it for us. Kinda of like a WWII Victory Garden. We also did not want to be a burden on society and demand someone else provide us with what we need. With that said looking at the youth of today that will be running the world, all I can see is that were all DOOMED!!!.
Hence the ranch project evolved out of the horse packing venture.

Also over the last year I told Barbie I have been contemplating abandoning our horse venture in lieu of the fact that in 13 years we will be 70.
To those just tuning in were not looking a open/free range gazing like friends I knew did in CO and AZ.
This is a 200 to 300 acre, fenced and cross fenced operations were looking at and basically shootin fish in a barrel.
Seriously, I should be buying a house on a golf course in Scottsdale AZ at my age but I hate the game myself.


The ranch and cows are green light.

[bikerbeans]

+1 on the cows, they taste much better than horses.

BB

[Thumbcocker]

An option might be a small spread in the Midwest. Good balance of woods and farm land. Low taxes wood for heat and landowner deer tags. We rent our tillable land that also serves as food plots. I'm 54 and out of shape but I still fill 2-3 tags per year and cut wood to help with heating. Two does in the freeze no worry about fencing or expenses. I plan to make our own meat as long as I can. Many members here in their 70's hunt. I seldom have to drag more than 100 yards and that would be less if I had an atv. We are two hours or less from some of the best hospitals in the world. It ain't Utah or Colorado but I can make meat 1/4 mile from my couch. Plenty of room for garden and fruit trees. FWIW.

[oldred]

I know a lot of people in their 50's/60's and 70's who have permanent limps and/or other serious injuries due to horses.

Some like you have learned to let go and get rid of them. Others still think that they are 20 years old and are still riding.

I even new a waterski prodigy that had shattered all regional titles. He was on his way to becoming a World Champion Super Star. His parents spent hundred of thousands on this kid; even built him two private ski lakes!
That all ended in a blink of an eye when his horse stepped on his foot.
Six different surgeries in Dallas could not bring him back to normal.

You made a wise decision Duke.

I also know someone in their 60's who was seriously injured in a bad horse wreck when he was 49, ME! I was ridding a fence to find where the cows were getting out (Black Angus, those dang things would have no trouble escaping San Quentin!) when a deer jumped right in front of us and the horse bolted, I was thrown off and then the dang thing stepped on me! I never fully recovered and soon had to retire from my mining job but we have managed to still run the farm and raise a few cattle, albeit without the help of horses! We still love living in the boonies "back on the ridge" and keeping it simple but some things from "the old days" are better left in the old days!

Today what I can't walk to I use a small homebuilt hydrostatic ATV type contraption that I built for the purpose, it may look a bit like a Lunar rover but it gets me where I need to go and won't bolt if it sees a deer!

[shdwlkr]

Duke
We are all going to get older unless life gets in the way. You say in 13 years you will be 70 in that same time frame I will be looking at 80 and yes like I said I will get my ranch. I am going back to work to get funds to do it.
Yes I will be rural to some extent, will have beef cows, and who knows what else. I have kids that are 7 and 8 and want dad to get some critters that I wouldn't, but if they are willing to help with the care of them then we will have them. IF the ranch 500 acres or more shows up then when I can't run the place the kids will have to step up or it gets sold simple as that and dad finds a smaller place to end his days if the place doesn't rush it on.

I know
Barbie's being under the weather now has you rethinking things and that is a good idea, just remember take it slow.
In a year you might find that Barbie can do a lot of things she and you like
The future is just that the future none of know what things are going to be like in the next 6 months let alone over a longer period.
The size and purpose of the ranch are up to just two people Duke and Barbie no one else
Enjoy life and let it play out on its terms to some extent.

[Pinsnscrews]

If there is one, ONE, thing I have learned about you Duke, You do not jump into something blind. You think about it. You research it. You figure out how to make it work. If in your judgement, you feel it is time to let the Horses go, then who am I to think you did not take into consideration every feasible scenario, and feel you would be better off without. No one was offering a product you wanted, so you not only learned how to make that product, but designed that product and then figured out how to open a store for it. If you want to do cattle for you and Barbie, then by God, I have no fear that it will be a "failure". I have every confidence that you do in fact have a very strong idea of what you need to make it happen. I also have seen you take good advice and suggestions from others on how to fine tune your endeavor.

So with all that, I wish you Good Luck, and I wish Godspeed to Barbie for a quick and solid healing. I wish I could say that some of your products were in my price range, because I know that whatever I was able to purchase from you would be in Damn Good shape.

Now, I just need some popcorn to wait for the updates to roll in! Looking forward to them!

[Polecat]

DUKE I grew up on 120 acer faem in La. with two mules and a couple of milk cows.Dad had to work in the sawmill in the winter me and my brothers peeled pine poles for our school clothes. Some time later I discovered the cowboy in the white hat didn't always win. Every time a door closed in my face I turned to one that was open. I am retired now and we use the everyday world, cell phones computers facebook Ipad but also use the old ways. we pressure can a lot of our 2 gardens. I trap and sale fur. all our hambuger is deer meat. We may not be doing what we dreamed but we are happy. We are 72 and 70 life dosen't end until it ends. trust in God and go where your judgement leads you. You and your family are in my prayers jerryL

[Three44s]

Where to begin?

I am a rancher and could not conceive running cows without horse power. Yet, I do all the above .... ride, use four wheelers ........ put hay in pickups and (cheat) ....... yes. We do all that.

I can tell you one thing ........ if I had an animal that was either on the fight or simply will not "come in" ....... you are down to one of two options ....... a horse or a gun.

I am sure your ground is different than mine but even in the most sublime pasture I can contemplate .... it's still the same cold hard facts ....... gun or a horse.

I am shocked by the number of horse wrecks that are displayed on this forum. It reinforces what my father insists upon: A good horse is cheaper than a bunch of medical bills.

I recall the English farmer on his four wheeler out checking his cattle. A new bull had been added to his herd. He wanted to see how things were going.

Upon finding the bull ....... it took him and began to pummel him ........ Miraclessly ... his cows encircled him and at least one of the mother cows was killed by that bull as it tried to close in and finnish the job.

I rather take my chances on a good horse when some bovine wants to ring my bell than on any four wheeler or side by side.

Three 44s

[Recluse]

I get responses like this twice a year. <eyes rolling>
I have no choice as far as getting cows go. I also don't plan on opening up a feed lot nor feed cows corn. Tell all that to the Africans and they'll laugh as they have been doing cattle 5000 years before TX was a state.
They are for us......to eat.........
Anyway what I intend to do with funds from liquidated homes is my own business.
I'm also appalled that you feel that the rest of us have never had to work hard for a living as I gather.

Perhaps it is you that are making it hard for yourself
I mean seriously. Your not out riding on a sickle mower pulled by two draft horses to put hay up for the winter.
Yes http://www.landandfarm.com/ states TX has 36,982 ranches for sale. Hmmmmm Someones surely not doing something right that's for sure.
I have also recently given up any desire to move to another "Police State" that's basically was worse than CA as of two years ago.

I take posts like this personally.
People try to stone wall me by telling me "hey you can't do what I do because you have never done it before"
They told me that about leather work, they told me about wood working, they also told me that about casting bullets.
That's like telling a 21 year old couple that "you never had children so you know nothing about raising children so you should really think about sitting in front of the idiot box and watching re-runs instead of having children"

The other is I'm am usually dissuaded by someone else that profits from the many fabrication venues I'm pursuing in lieu on feared financial competition.

And to the others out there. Were getting the cows! Period! y'all

Good God! Is this a re-run script from The Edge of Night or General Hospital or something? :rolleyes:

All you were given was a dissenting opinion from someone knowledgeable about what you are pursuing and your response is to go off like a spoiled professional victim?

Four to five hundred acres, eh, up there in your neck of the woods and you and your wife are going to be the sole operators? Okay. . . And the next time one of you gets hurt and is out of commission and a winter storm is blowing down, or you're in a drought or a brushfire that started as a controlled burn on a neighbor's land goes rogue and the zephyrs push it your way, you're going to do what?

Better start milking the hell out of those "beef cows" and throwing the milk at the approaching flames.

I didn't read where the poster said you couldn't do it or wasn't able to do it or would not succeed. I read the opinion of someone that seems to have a little bit better and more realistic handle on ranching in the 21st century right now than you do and simply giving you some opposing cud to chew on to possibly help you more appropriate plan out your operations.

*Shrug* I grew up on a large, dusty West Texas ranch and while there are a number of things that an ATV/UTV can be an advantage with, there are almost just as many that it can't. Nothing will ever replace the horse on an honest-to-God working cattle ranch. That is not to say that "if you can't continue to ride, you can't. . ." but rather to say you might want to consider hiring a couple of full-time vaqueros, maybe do a limited partnership with them like deed them out a few acres to build a house on and a percentage of the market prices when you send a herd to slaughter. Best investment you might ever make--you double your manpower and have a couple of much younger butts in the saddle to handle the more physical chores that come with the undertaking.

Those "ranches" you linked to? I've never seen a half-acre lot of land with a $500,000 house ever referred to as a ranch before except by realtors, city-slickers and yankees. And as far as genuine ranches for sale in Texas? We ain't got the market cornered on that one, either. Corporate ranching, like corporate farming, has become huge business (which I do NOT like, coming from a family ranching background) and the grandchildren and great/great-grandchildren who've inherited ranches (and farms) have no interests in pulling themselves way from their smart phones, big screen TVs and imported cars to continue the family business, so they sell.

That's happening in virtually all fifty-states.

I haven't read where anyone here has said you can't do it, but I have read a few opinions that do a one-eighty of the enthusiastic bandwagon rah rah responses too. Comparing the task of teaching yourself how to build, run, operate and maintain a profitable cattle venture with teaching yourself how to cast boolits or do leatherwork or woodworking not even an apt comparison. In the latter, you control all factions and intangibles. In the former, you're at the mercy of factions you have little and/or no control over--weather, drought, disease, rustling, regulations, market prices, ever-changing land usage regulations/taxes/requirements, et al.

Again, have not read where anyone said you couldn't do it and a lot of us older folks here have watched you undertake several ventures and do well. But getting all butthurt when someone offers a dissenting opinion and throwing barbs and underhanded insults. . .

:coffee:

[jumbeaux]

Recluse I appreciate your post. I was just attempting to offer some advice...(unsolicited I know)...about Cattle Ranching as a business which is what I understood him to be contemplating. I suggested the feed lot job because riding fence on a big place is about the toughest job a hand can enjoy. I based all of my opinions on his statement of going into the "Ranching Business". If you don't already have a place then the money needed is going to be substantial. The 39,000 + "ranches" for sale that he quoted were better than 95% residential. Not what I would call a ranch. If Duke is looking to raise his own beef for his families consumption then he could do it on a small place without the need of special equipment. (Duke if you are going to eat your beef take my advice and buy a steer) He seems to enjoy slapping Texas and Texans...I have big shoulders but I do wonder why in the world he would take offense at a little real world experience...I appreciate you clarifying what I was attempting to express...take care my friend...

rick

[starmac]

You guys act like a horse and a lot of land are must haves to be a rancher. hmpf Everbody knows all it takes is the right hat, belt, some high top luchese boots and a 4 door diesel pickup with a Gilleys bumper sticker. lol Why you think they started building supercab and 4 door pickups, them big hats were a pain in regular cabs.

NO HORSES OR COWS NEEDED.

[roadie]

Some good advice has been given here by jumbeaux....I have to wonder if the OP has really thought things through. Hiring out at a feedlot operation would give hands on experience and do it a lot cheaper than setting everything up yourself. You would also find out pretty quick whether or not you want to, or are capable of doing, your own ranching business.

Then again, I'm still not sure what the OP is wanting to do...."cows" are mentioned a lot. To me, "cows" means a dairy operation...cows are primarily for milking and producing offspring...it's what they do best.

A "ranching business", to me at least, means beef is the primary goal...not milking Suzy the cow. More steers than cows.....there is a difference....cows ain't steers.

Course, it's the OP's money, he's free to do whatever he wants with it...I just think that it's showing bad manners to get all snarky and dramatic and jump on someone like jumbeaux whose goal appears to be only to give good advice.

[starmac]

LOL It takes cows, to come up with steers. There is also a world of difference in riding pens at a feed lot and ranching. There just ain't a lot of ranches without cows.

[smokeywolf]

We figure we need about 2400 lbs. of meat per year; that includes about 1400 lbs. for the dogs. Beef should probably comprise near half of that. The rest would be venison, pork, chicken, turkey, fish and perhaps some duck and goose.
Because we'd like to be as self sustaining as possible, we hope to run 6 to 10 head at a time. I'm guessing that would require at least one bull and to insure at least two calves each spring, three cows. Hopefully we could widen the gene pool by breeding at least one cow with a neighbor's bull. If we produce more than we need we could perhaps sell or trade the excess.

Would love to have horses again, but unless I can justify them I won't sacrifice the money.

smokeywolf

[starmac]

For 3 cows, AI is way,way cheaper. I personally would not consider owning or putting up with a bull for anything less than 20 head of cows.

I tend to think it would be more economical to buy weaning calves to raise for consumption than messing with any cows.

[jumbeaux]

starmac you are correct sir about cows + bull or cows + AI = either heifers or bull calves...breed the heifers to increase the herd, sell the bull calves you don't need and cut the bull calves you plan to consume. The riding fence on a big feed lot operation was absolutely the worse thing I could think of for an aspiring rookie cowboy...(admittedly you are not gonna get hired as a cowhand unless you can cowboy)...if Duke wants to hobby ranch then get after it please sir...I was only offering some advice about running a Cattle Ranch as a business...

rick

[Plate plinker]

1800rent a bull or AI. Sell the horses buy a rig and a good cattle dog and your golden. My late rancher friend did very well that way bad back and all.
good luck.

[6bg6ga]

I'm not giving up the dream of getting it.
Let's go back to the beginning.
Originally we were going to do a horse packing outfit out of N. Idaho or Yakk/Eureka Montana. Some malevolent entity decided they didn't want people able to live off the land so to say up that way so they brought in the wolf under the guise of some "Eco hippie" re-population project.
As time went on the Elk population went down 80%.
So we figure we better make our own food and not depend on someone else to do it for us. Kinda of like a WWII Victory Garden. We also did not want to be a burden on society and demand someone else provide us with what we need. With that said looking at the youth of today that will be running the world, all I can see is that were all DOOMED!!!.
Hence the ranch project evolved out of the horse packing venture.

Also over the last year I told Barbie I have been contemplating abandoning our horse venture in lieu of the fact that in 13 years we will be 70.
To those just tuning in were not looking a open/free range gazing like friends I new did in CO and AZ.
This is a 200 to 300 acre, fenced and cross fenced operations were looking at and basically shootin fish in a barrel.
Seriously, I should be buying a house on a golf course in Scottsdale AZ at my age but I hate the game myself.
So don't be disappointed in me because I don't want to take a chance on spending my/our golden years driving around Mall Of America on an electric scooter because of a near fatal horse accident.

The ranch and cows are green light.

Duke,

Your age doesn't mean anything. As a matter of fact I'm older than you. I absolutely refuse to give up on my dreams even considering my age. Your as old as you feel.

If you don't want the horse packing then I certainly wouldn't give up on still having them. I don't know how many saddles you have but in my humble uneducated opinion they are flawless works of art. The wife and I used to have horses and have had a number of high dollar saddles. I can say that yours are fantastic.

Cattle seem to be a lot of work from what I see from the farms here in Iowa. The cost of feeding and careing for them can be a lot. A lot of cattle = a lot of waste to be removed. The plus side of that is it could be processed and sold.

Maybe instead of trying to go full tilt on the dream scale it down a bit and have some horses and cattle. That also = a lot of waste.

Take care my friend and consider this wisely.

[waksupi]

Working on a ranch during calving season gives one an entirely different perspective on the whole thing. Stripping off your shirt, and being armpit deep in a cow in sub-zero weather is a real education. Yes sir, a whole new perspective! :(

[Just Duke]

We started this proposed ranching venture 9 years ago.
Now that Barbie broke her leg it looks like she won't be able to exert that much pressure on her leg to mount up.
Well they said she could but due to the diagonal double break I don't feel she should at her age. Were 56.
Also looking at the X-ray I myself decided I didn't want to end up like her either. At my age.
She was disappointed when I told her that I'm going to put all the saddlery up for sale.
Barbie was thinking she wouldn't be able to get her cows.
I told her I have seen guys in Montana and WY using ATV's and side by sides to run and keep an eye on cows.
Were opting for side by sides or UTV's as they call them. Kawasaki Terex 4 looks to fit the bill.
Also sadly I have seriously lost a taste for deer and elk meat and considering the effort involved to harvest. Also I have decided to sell off most of my hunting rifles although I will retain my tactical weaponry. Barbie got me addicted to cow.
It's 2014 and I'm going to not live like it's 125 years ago anymore. An anachronism so to say.
So please welcome me to the present.


Respectfully this is about an old small woman with a broke leg, and a old guy that grew up poor and not much to eat, that want's to secure his food supply and others in the general vicinity so they won't ever have to go through what I did. And a couple that chose to live vicariously through those of the past in their venture to keep our history alive.
Many here in confidence are aware of my present health situations.............................. And! of no fault of my own doing.

[Mumblypeg]

Come on people! can't we just have a discussion without it getting ugly? Jezzz...... What has become of the small talk on this site...

[MaryB]

Neighbor across the street has 5 acres. Every year he raises a couple head of beef as part of his daughters 4h projects. They have been stacking hay for 2 weeks, have half their pole barn full. I checked with them about raisin gone for myself and it is cheaper for me to buy from the farmer who does that for a living at $3.25 pound(went up 25 cents this year, first raise in 6 years) cut wrapped and delivered to my front door.

[starmac]

I found years ago that to feed one or two familys, it is just as cheap or cheaper to buy than raise, but you don't get the satisfaction of raising your own. Unless you know exactly where it came from, you also don't know what it was fed. Very few ranches top out their beeves to butcher size, but instead sell their yearlings to a feedlot to be finished. I always preffered to butcher them early and have grass fed beef, if a guy is lucky and has the pasture, he can buy 5 to 10 weiners and pasture them, on a good year sell all but one or 2 and have free beef, but even that is always a gamble.

[jaysouth]

I have a family member who lives with his wife on a lot of land inherited from the family. After a few years, they decided it would be really really cool to raise cattle on their land. After putting up a couple of miles of fencing and building a barn and feed lot, they brought in the first cattle purchased at an auction.

After three for four years of raising cattle, they discovered that the combined incomes of a surgeon and tenured university professor was not enough to raise cattle. They sold off the cattle and tried to recoup their losses by letting real farmers lease their land and farm it. By the year 2078 they will be at break even.

[Blacksmith]

Duke if you or Barbie still like horses but can't ride any more take up carriage driving. Can't work cattle but can still put a horse to good use. We are over 70 wife had both hips replaced and I had knee surgery earlier this year but we enjoy going out with a horse. One horse can easily work for two or more people in a carriage and the carriage/draft breeds are calmer and easier to work with than most riding types (we are partial to the Morgan breed).

There are many types of carriage activities including international competitive driving (called combined driving event) competitions, we no longer compete just recreational drive. There are national associations and regional or local clubs in all 50 states and the driving community is full of nice helpful people. Here is a link to the American Driving Society and a Google search will find many more:
http://www.americandrivingsociety.org/index.asp

Good luck in your new venture whatever it ends up being.

Edit:
Western Whips and Wheels is in the Pacific Northwest:
http://westernwhipsandwheels.wordpress.com/

[6bg6ga]

After re-reading this and considering the cost of the equipment and such to raise cattle It has me wondering if purchasing a 1/2 a cow and filling the freezer wouldn't be a better way to go. Let someone else that is setup to raise the cattle do so. It would save a lot of work and equipment not to mention time. Your older years are as I am told are supposed to be for enjoying life. Want horses? Then either purchase enough land to have 3 or 4 or whatever or stable them elsewhere.

I also grew up leaving the table hungry when I was young so I also know what that was like. Yes, it has me filling the freezer for lean times also but I also have to consider if it hits the fan there probably won't be any electricity so anything I have in the freezer will go to waste. The future is not a win win situation because it you have food the government can come in and simply take it and we are powerless to do anything.

[6bg6ga]

Working on a ranch during calving season gives one an entirely different perspective on the whole thing. Stripping off your shirt, and being armpit deep in a cow in sub-zero weather is a real education. Yes sir, a whole new perspective! :(


I have had horse experience in the past. At one time the wife and I had three of them with all the saddles and tack required. They require regular maintenance their shots and grooming and shoeing. The Vet bills add up as does the horse shoeing. They require being let out in the morning weather permitting along with the water being brought up to the top of the tank and in winter a heater in the tank. They need checking at noon and being fed and put away at night. The stalls need cleaned on a daily basis for proper sanitation. All of this is pretty much normal. The abnormal does arise however. The calls to work to let you know your horses got out of the pasture or a horse has its leg stuck in the fence and requires vet help and the time off work.

I made the wifes dream of horses come true and this required renting 14 acres south of town and being married to it just about all of my free time so she could have her 8 hour trail rides after commuting 100 miles to the start point of the ride. I believe we did this for 5 years and both tired of it. We sold the horses and tack and got out from under the rental property. Would I do this again? You know A person can rent a horse for those trail rides and when you consider the cost its cheaper than all the work of keeping your own. I would sooner rent several horses for say $500 for a ride than I would the trouble of boarding and care.

I do regret getting rid of the show saddles we had because what we sold for $2K each back in the late 70's we could get probably 10K each out of now.

[jumbeaux]

Duke without risking upsetting you sir...you might consider selling out and investing in a small place in the country. Build your pastures up with high quality grass, make sure your water source is clean and abundant. Get your fences in good order. Buy yourself a few steers, plant yourself a big garden, buy some chickens for both egg and meat production. Think about raising rabbits. Meat goats and hogs should also be a consideration. If your place has a stock tank (pond for some folks) consider stocking with fish. Then buy yourself a couple mules and a wagon or buggy to tool around your place or to go visit neighbors. Y'all could learn to can and make preserves/jelly. (Swap for the fruit with neighbors or at the farmers market) I guarantee y'all will stay busy and really enjoy country living...

rick

[MtGun44]

Didn't anybody read the last post by Duke?

The man says he wants to secure his food supply and (paraphrasing) live a life
from the past. Gee whiz, this is not about the lowest cost for a pound of beef.
This is not about economics, it is about lifestyle.

Life is short, and I applaud anyone that dreams a dream and goes out and
lives it, even if it is harder. I have an uncle that was raised as a cowboy in Wyoming,
joined the Navy at 18 in WW2 and became a pilot, flew props to jets and wound up as
a test pilot, then retired and went back to ranching until he was too old to do it
and my aunt was too sick of scorpions, rattlers, cows and horses and then moved
back to town. He really lived an adventure, but it wasn't the easiest way to get beef,
or the cheapest - it was his chosen lifestyle. I think he went back to ranching at about
55 years old

Good luck Duke, hope the leg heals well, and I have broken a number of bones, so I
know the drill, no fun and hard, painful work to get things back to strength. Keep at
it and live the dream, you only get one chance so enjoy the ride.

Bill

[smokeywolf]

Bill just hit the nail right on the head.

Duke's objective (mine also) is to be self sufficient, self sustaining and able to provide for his wife, himself and anyone else he wishes to invite into his home and life. This is about engineering your lifestyle and surroundings to reduce to the greatest degree possible, your exposure to and dependence on government and socioeconomic trends, influences and/or disasters.

Although startup and operating expenses must be a consideration as well as physical capabilities, they are logistical speed bumps, not road blocks.

This is a little like people who work for someone else for years, make a decent living then all of sudden get laid off and find out that counting on someone else for your income is no longer something that makes sense.
Like starting a new business, starting a new lifestyle that reduces your dependence on others to greatest extent possible and practical must be researched and thought out for not just months, but years and is not without hard work and expense.

One of the best things people like Duke, myself and a few others on this forum who long for a more independent and "back to our roots" lifestyle can do is confer with and seek the counsel of folks who have been there and done that.

With regard to raising your own beef, although it is undoubtedly easier and financially more practical to buy your beef from a neighbor or local rancher, by doing that you are again dependent on someone else for one of your basic needs.

Hope this thread continues for a bit longer. Information from folks who have been and/or are currently successfully living this lifestyle is of the utmost value to newbies and neophytes like me.

Although I've worked with and trained horses off and on for years, in spite doing a short stint riding fence for a for a cattle company, my experience with cattle pales in comparison.

smokeywolf

[starmac]

Smokeywolf, you are talking more of what I equate with what is now called a homestead, or self sustainable life style. One many of us want. While some advice from ranchers may pertain to it, most would be comepletly different. I have never ranched, but have worked on a few, I have also raised my on for personal use, not just beef, but hogs, chickens and rabbits too. When I was growing up my folks did the same bot on a much larger scale, as many as fifty calves, 300 hogs, 100 chickens and the rabbits would even get out of hand at times, grew large gardens, and 160 acres of feed, but still nothing much like ranching.

[MaryB]

People I buy beef from are part of the farm to table thing. I go to the farm in spring, pick the calve I want part of and can go out there when ever I want to help with chores and see how it is doing. They are 85% grass fed and finished on organic grain from the farm for 6 weeks. Slaughtered young and it is some tasty stuff. Had round steak tonight that was as tender as some sirloin I have bought. I mainly end up helping them with computer stuff because of my back but they appreciate it and they have kept prices super low. $3 a pound cut wrapped and delivered the last 5 years can't be beat. I split a half with friends in town and they even divide it up for us and deliver to both houses. Butchered locally too in a shop that is super clean. I asked the butcher about eating rare hamburger and he grabbed some raw off the grinder and ate it. Knowing where my meat came from is nice and not having to worry about drugs and chemicals and bacteria is even better.


I found years ago that to feed one or two familys, it is just as cheap or cheaper to buy than raise, but you don't get the satisfaction of raising your own. Unless you know exactly where it came from, you also don't know what it was fed. Very few ranches top out their beeves to butcher size, but instead sell their yearlings to a feedlot to be finished. I always preffered to butcher them early and have grass fed beef, if a guy is lucky and has the pasture, he can buy 5 to 10 weiners and pasture them, on a good year sell all but one or 2 and have free beef, but even that is always a gamble.

[MaryB]

I try to be as self sufficient as possible while living on an acre of city lot. I can and garden, freeze, dehydrate, save seeds... I wish I had fruit trees but I can trade computer skills for apples so I will be getting a bushel of them tomorrow probably. Those will get peeled and canned for pies and just for eating out of the jar. Will get about 20 honeycrisp too if they are ready. They keep fairly well in a basket on the counter and are one of the best out of hand eating apples out there.

Don't overlook bartering skills for what you don't grow. I do computer work, have done laser engraving and cutting, some basic leather work(still learning) in exchange for garden produce and fruit. A no cash lifestyle fits my budget!

[smokeywolf]

I too prefer trade and barter to cash transactions.

[MtGun44]

Worked a couple summers on a feed lot operation in north Fla. Mostly drove
tractors, but also worked with the baler (60 lb square bales) and stacking them.
For a more modern operation, especially without cheap teen labor ($1.46 per hour)
the round bales are a lot less labor intensive if you have the right equipment.
The mixing of feed seemed like a pretty scientific deal - they shipped in molasses, alfalfa
powder, rolled oats, and other stuff to mix with the corn silage and hay that we grew,
cut and stored. It looked to me like making proper cattle feed was a job for
someone that knows something about cow nutrition.

I am right on the edge of telling more than I know, so time to stop. There's
got to be books out there on how to feed cows well, and I expect a
few night classes at the local jr. college might be useful - "Raising Livestock 101"
or some such.

Best wishes with the cow operation.

Bill

[Lucky Joe]

Duke, Much has been said here and I could add more. I simply want to say " I doft my cap to you sir".

[wbrco]

Hmmm.

To me,
CJ3 = ATV/UTV
Super Cub = Carbon Cub..

Keep it simple.

Tough decisions like this are never fun.

[Ajax]

Duke without risking upsetting you sir...you might consider selling out and investing in a small place in the country. Build your pastures up with high quality grass, make sure your water source is clean and abundant. Get your fences in good order. Buy yourself a few steers, plant yourself a big garden, buy some chickens for both egg and meat production. Think about raising rabbits. Meat goats and hogs should also be a consideration. If your place has a stock tank (pond for some folks) consider stocking with fish. Then buy yourself a couple mules and a wagon or buggy to tool around your place or to go visit neighbors. Y'all could learn to can and make preserves/jelly. (Swap for the fruit with neighbors or at the farmers market) I guarantee y'all will stay busy and really enjoy country living...

rick


This what i want.

Andy

[starmac]

Had a neighbor, a retired engineer from NY bought a section of land a mile from where I lived. He bought a couple of calves from another neighbor, to be picked up when he gathered his cattle to ship. He built his fences while he was waiting, and showed up with halters and lead ropes to lead them to his place, which was only a mile and a half. lol These were range calves, so my neighbor told him he would deliver them as they were not exactly halter broke. lol
He had fenced app. 20 acres with nice new 5 wire fence, so my neighbor pulled through his gate and let them lose. The calves left on a run and kept going, it seemed he had fenced 3 sides, but not the back .lol It was about 2 months before he got his calves back, but by then he had completed the pen. lol He was a great neighbor and highly educated, but not very cattle or farm wise.

He originally paid 590 bucks an acre for that 640 acres, sight unseen. This sounded cheap looking through the eyes of a new yorker, but in fact he overpaid tremendously. Over the course of about 5 years he fenced it and cross fenced it, tilled 100 acres and planted dry land alfalfa, put up 3 windmills and generally did a lot of improvements.
His wife never took to the very rural living, so they decided to go back to NY. I was standing there when the same man he bought it from bought it back with all the improvements for 125 an acre.

[smokeywolf]

There's book smarts and there's common sense smarts and not all people have both. It seems that rural or country folk have more of a propensity for common sense than city people. At least that's been my observation.

[6bg6ga]

Do what makes you happy.

[Finster101]

I won't tell anyone not to do it or that they can't do it. I am trying to build a house on a couple of acres now so that I can do a little more garden and canning. I do know that I worked hay and tobacco when I was high school age back in Kentucky and I can tell you I don't miss either of those jobs.

[smokeywolf]

I just want to raise as much of our food as I can without making it a sun-up to sun-down job 6 or 7 days a week, 52 weeks out of the year. Health and practicality will dictate what is or is not feasible. Even as recently as a couple of years ago (my late 50s) I worked a 72 hour a week job, plus 12 hr/week of commute time for 3 straight months. I've done this many times in the movie industry. Once you get used to it and as long as there's an end in sight, it's not so bad.
Have also given thought to how best to make the operation scaleable. Older children may sometime need a place to retreat to. I'm nearly 20 years older than the Mrs. She hopes to carry on after I'm gone. I'm also a big fan of backup and redundant systems; this becomes even more important if and when Mrs. smokeywolf is by herself.

We're pretty strongly focused on the So. Central Missouri area right now.

smokeywolf

[MaryB]

Consider raised bed square foot gardening. Easier for older backs. It is a very intensive form where stuff is planted close together.

[TXGunNut]

This what i want.

Andy


Yep, especially if the tank dam doubles as a backstop.

[smokeywolf]

We've actually already figured that method into our overall plan. If memory serves, waksupi and a few others wrote quite a few informative posts on raised bed gardening. We also have hopes of planting a small orchard (apples) to produce just a little income to offset property taxes and homeowner's insurance. Not sure what it will take to keep the wildlife moochers away, have to study on that. Also hope to put in a food plot. Hope the orchard and food plot don't become one-in-the-same.
Had a friend who had 20 acres in rural area in SoCal. Bred Polish Arabian horses. Had I think 10 acres in lemons or oranges that paid his property taxes and utilities.

With regard to cattle for personal consumption. Is it practical to breed cows in late July or early Aug. so they calve in early May, then butcher in late Sept.- Early Oct so you don't have to feed over the Winter? I'm guessing that would result in about a 600 lb. calf at slaughter. I've heard this is done by some, but don't know what climate they were dealing with.

smokeywolf

[starmac]

The way I personally would do it for personal consumption, is not have a breeder on the place. I would buy feeder calves when I wanted to pasture them as long as I wanted to, then on to the freezer. If I had the pasture I would buy several more than I planned to butcher every year, and run them on pasture to offset the cost of the ones I consumed. I would likely do the same with pork. Chickens to eat is just a 6 or 7 week deal, hogs from weaners to freezer are 5 months. All three when raised for meat, is easy enough to set your operation where you aren't required to be there daily. When I was younger we always had something to milk, that was twice a day 8 days a week, sometimes seemed like 10 days a week. lol We always had laying hens, and I love fresh yard eggs, but upon retiring if and when I ever get to, I will find a neighbor to buy or barter for eggs, instead of being tied to them. We raised rabbits to butcher, and that was also a daily chore the way we did it, but I'm thinking a guy could set them up to be able to be gone a day or two too. I doubt that a guy would have much luck not having breeder rabbits year round though if he wanted rabbits. Cattle hogs and chickens, would be pretty easy to raise all a guy family (or a few families) could consume and have a large garden or small truck farm and still have a few months at a time off. I also love fresh milk, but don't see me ever pulling a teat again. I don't know anything about fruit orchards, but I have known several people that made a living or supplemented their retirement with small 5 to 30 acre u-pick truck farms, if a guy is in the right area.

[smokeywolf]

We do want fresh milk, but don't want to have to milk every day, so need a calf or two on the place to fill in between milkings. Mrs. smokeywolf is very intent on having a milking cow and fresh eggs from both chickens and guineas.

smokeywolf

[MaryB]

Think goats for milk, much easier to care for.

[starmac]

I know of people that buys orphaned or dairy calves (used to be free) because their cow gave more milk than they needed, and they would turn a profit on the calf. I never knew anyone that used calves to give them a day or so off, but it just might work. As far as the goats, we had milk goats several times when I was growing up,any goats I mess with from now on would be meat goats. I would rather milk a cow, excess milk went in the hog trough, it really puts a shine on hogs.

[montana_charlie]

Also over the last year I told Barbie I have been contemplating abandoning our horse venture in lieu of the fact that in 13 years we will be 70.

The ranch and cows are green light.
When you get to this situation, let us know if it's all you thought it would be.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/IMG_0489.jpg



That's me in the blue shirt with my back to the camera, emasculating a bull calf ... and I'm 67.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/IMG_0490.jpg

That tip I left for you about what kind of ATV to pick for working cows wasn't just idle gossip.


CM

[Just Duke]

HOWEVER!!! We will both be spending our golden years back home touring the Puget Sound in canoes we planned on building awhile back and Steelhead fishing.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?236806-Fantasy-Vintage-Cedar-Strip-Canoe-Build-in-pic


This is not us by the way.
http://www.columbiariverfishingguideservice.com/big_salmon.jpg


http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad54/LEVERACTIONSHOOTERS/CANOE/Pic108.jpg~original

[Just Duke]

My neighbor back up my way WA (and probably the laziest person on the planet but a nice fella) has over 100 cows about in my area told me he would hook us up with cow anytime I need one.

[smokeywolf]

Gotta roll with the punches. Life changes and you adjust. I'm anxious to hear of your new plans.

[MtGun44]

Sorry to hear of you having to rework your dreams. Best wishes in
making this work out for you.

Bill

[Hickory]

Duke;
I know how life works. When life knocks you down, you roll over onto your stomach, draw yourself up onto your knees, get your hands under you and push, Then get one foot on the ground, then the other and stand up, shake yourself off and go on with life. The one time you don't do that, someone digs a hole besides you and rolls you in it.

[jumbeaux]

:coffee:

rick

[bayjoe]

Sack a cubes is the only way to handle cattle.

[starmac]

I want to know what kind of and how long that canoe is??

[6bg6ga]

My neighbor back up my way WA (and probably the laziest person on the planet but a nice fella) has over 100 cows about in my area told me he would hook us up with cow anytime I need one.

So your going back to WA and not going to settle in AZ?

[starmac]

Just me, but I would rather be in that canoe chasing any kind of fish, even if there were no fish, than foolin with cows. lol

[Just Duke]

So your going back to WA and not going to settle in AZ?

Yes sir.

[RugerFan]

Nothing wrong with fishing. That's a good plan too.

[Just Duke]

Health update! I have second chance now. :bigsmyl2:

Miss Barbie can ride horses again.
My health came back. Some say it was because I was working 18 hour days, 7 days a week.
Obama recently had specialists fix my vision now I'm back like new again. I can now hand tool leather again like when I was a young.
Obama paid for Barbies medical bills and is reimbursing me for my financial losses.
Obama sent Barbie to school and she tentatively has several jobs pending that pay twice what she was originally making.

And to who it may concern thinking I moved to Vegas for the lights and gambling, drugs, hookers, driving around in a Lamborghini wearing Armani suits. tsk tsk I don't live in a home full of Las Vegas Show Girls and Exotic Dancers with a brass pole in my living room either as some have stated in a few past posts. <eyes rolling>
I partake in none of this. I have never ever drank alcohol to this day and really have trouble understanding this whole inebriation thing.
Actually in the past, while wifey was at her cocktail job I chatted most Fri and Sat nights with the late Bob Krack and Mooseman in AK into the late hours in the mourning via phone.
I came to Vegas for an engineering job. That's it. Those here that have corresponded with me are aware of this. No one knows or will ever know where I worked.

I also hung out with ranching people, as in "In a saddle on horse" when I lived in CO as a youth. That goes for AZ also.
Again, those here that have taken the inconvenience of corresponding with me are aware of this. Those that have not are presuming.

Most summer school breaks, Gramps flew me into DFW to come help him out on his ranch.


So the observant ones here have noticed I am going back to my roots. :bigsmyl2:

Someone needs to step up to the plate to feed America. The youth of today as a whole surely won't take on this responsibility.

[shdwlkr]

Duke good to hear things have worked out for you.
I hope to one day have a small farm and get back to my roots also, hope to one day pass my licensing exam so I can work in the mental health counseling world.

[daniel lawecki]

Glad to see you post Duke and to here your on the upswing again. Life does throw curve balls once in awhile. When you start leather work again post some pics. I have a respiratory problem and still battling after most of the year. [smilie=s:

[montana_charlie]

Someone needs to step up to the plate to feed America.
Looking forward to seeing how much of America you manage to feed ... how long before delivery of your first livestock?

[Just Duke]

MC you are still on my block list so your posts don't show up here.
I think we're going on year 6 or 7 now.

[Just Duke]

Correction the wife just said 8 years. lol

[starmac]

Hmmm, now I'm curious how that block list works, I am assuming it would be the ignore list I keep hearing about. I figured you would not be able to see a post by someone on it, is that not correct.

Luckily, at least in the part of America I have been to, someone was feeding us already. Infact, lots of farmers are paid not to produce. lol

[andremajic]

Good to hear of your health Duke, I personally know that you will succeed in any endeavor you work on and this will be no different.

Andy

[WILCO]

Health update! I have second chance now. :bigsmyl2:

Great! Tell Barbie we said "Hi!". Always enjoy pics and updates.

[1989toddm]

Good to see you post again Duke! Keep fighting the good fight!

[jumbeaux]

Health update! I have second chance now. :bigsmyl2:

Miss Barbie can ride horses again.
My health came back. Some say it was because I was working 18 hour days, 7 days a week.
Obama recently had specialists fix my vision now I'm back like new again. I can now hand tool leather again like when I was a young.
Obama paid for Barbies medical bills and is reimbursing me for my financial losses.
Obama sent Barbie to school and she tentatively has several jobs pending that pay twice what she was originally making.

And to who it may concern thinking I moved to Vegas for the lights and gambling, drugs, hookers, driving around in a Lamborghini wearing Armani suits. tsk tsk I don't live in a home full of Las Vegas Show Girls and Exotic Dancers with a brass pole in my living room either as some have stated in a few past posts. <eyes rolling>
I partake in none of this. I have never ever drank alcohol to this day and really have trouble understanding this whole inebriation thing.
Actually in the past, while wifey was at her cocktail job I chatted most Fri and Sat nights with the late Bob Krack and Mooseman in AK into the late hours in the mourning via phone.
I came to Vegas for an engineering job. That's it. Those here that have corresponded with me are aware of this. No one knows or will ever know where I worked.

I also hung out with ranching people, as in "In a saddle on horse" when I lived in CO as a youth. That goes for AZ also.
Again, those here that have taken the inconvenience of corresponding with me are aware of this. Those that have not are presuming.

Most summer school breaks, Gramps flew me into DFW to come help him out on his ranch.


So the observant ones here have noticed I am going back to my roots. :bigsmyl2:

Someone needs to step up to the plate to feed America. The youth of today as a whole surely won't take on this responsibility.

:popcorn:

[PS Paul]

WA isn't so bad and I know you can handle the grey months of fall & winter.
I fish A LOT more than I shoot and this State is tough to beat, you know?
Granted, outside of OUTSTANDING albacore offshore in summer, we don't get marlin, dorado, yellowtail, sea bass and the other warm-water glamour species of southern states, we make up for it with salmon, steelhead, sturgeon, halibut, lingcod, largemouth, smallmouth, walleye, crappie, perch, bluegill and TONS of great trout fishing in lakes, rivers, the Sound and offshore.
But you knew that already!

Good for you two, Duke!

[Lloyd Smale]

glad to here your back in the swing of things duke.

[Just Duke]

Jumbeaux, you are on my list of harangue-ers I have blocked so I can't see your post.
Total of 5 so far.
Feel free to start your own thread about your own ventures. :)

[Just Duke]

WA isn't so bad and I know you can handle the grey months of fall & winter.
I fish A LOT more than I shoot and this State is tough to beat, you know?
Granted, outside of OUTSTANDING albacore offshore in summer, we don't get marlin, dorado, yellowtail, sea bass and the other warm-water glamour species of southern states, we make up for it with salmon, steelhead, sturgeon, halibut, lingcod, largemouth, smallmouth, walleye, crappie, perch, bluegill and TONS of great trout fishing in lakes, rivers, the Sound and offshore.
But you knew that already!

Good for you two, Duke!

Yea so it looks like we both decided to go Deer and Elk hunting again. We reside in both states so that should be good.
The one thing I can't handle anymore is hot weather.

I have a couple Alumaweld jet boats sitting in my garage in Vancouver WA with the motors pulled out of them just waiting for rebuilding and future runnings on the mouth of the Umpqua River.
Hopefully I'll sell one of my homes that don't have all the timber on it because we have a Timberking bandsaw mill on our wish list. ;)

[starmac]

No experience with the timberking, but I picked up a woodmizer this last year, and it is amazing what a guy can do with it.

[Just Duke]

No experience with the timberking, but I picked up a woodmizer this last year, and it is amazing what a guy can do with it.

Sure can. I have an in with Timberking and they said they wanted me to be their Pacific North West stocking dealer when I get back on my feet.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5slM-Hxh1RI

[bearcove]

My family farmed for 200 years in the US. A horse is an expense but a steer is potential profit. The ranch idea is nice if you want to justify having horses. Its a lifestyle I like but as a business, the horses eat feed that would feed beef that you could sell. Is it profit or pleasure you want to be a rancher for

[tygar]

Yea so it looks like we both decided to go Deer and Elk hunting again. We reside in both states so that should be good.
The one thing I can't handle anymore is hot weather.

I have a couple Alumaweld jet boats sitting in my garage in Vancouver WA with the motors pulled out of them just waiting for rebuilding and future runnings on the mouth of the Umpqua River.
Hopefully I'll sell one of my homes that don't have all the timber on it because we have a Timberking bandsaw mill on our wish list. ;)

Man I really love that lower Umpqua from where it comes down the mountain from Roseburg to where it levels out.

[Just Duke]

Man I really love that lower Umpqua from where it comes down the mountain from Roseburg to where it levels out.

Ditto!

[jumbeaux]

Duke I just responded to your PM sir...since I am on your block list maybe a Mod will make you aware of my reply...

rick

[tygar]

Is that big herd of elk still hanging out at that farm on the left where the road is flattened out?