Old M&P---What do I have here?

[Low Budget Shooter]

Dear S&W Revolver Guys,

Here is a picture of an old M&P I just bought on GunBroker. I'm buying it as a shooter. It's local to me, so I'll pick it up this week. What do I have here?

116380

Are those stocks ivory? I see they are yellowed and have shrunk.
Is that a 1905 second change like the ad says?
Any other info?

Here's the link to the ad with other pictures:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=440774055

Thanks!

LBS

[rintinglen]

If the Serial number is in the 73251-146899 range, that's what you have. The S&W collector's get a little carried away IMHO with their demarcations between "changes." It might mean something if you need parts, but most often, it is irrelevant to the casual shooter. What is relevant is that your gun is most certainly NOT rated for plus P ammo. Keep your loads mild and extend the life of your 105+ year old treasure.
Without a close examination, it is impossible to tell if those are ivory or "faux." Back in the 40-50 era, there were several companies who made replica Ivory stocks. You will find out when you remove the stocks.

[dubber123]

I'd bet plastic for the stocks, and an old re-nickle job. If the bore is nice, they can be great shooters.

[Reg]

The grips look like a old set of Franzite ivory look a likes. Remove them, I bet you will find casting numbers on the inside. Also , on the inside, they will look like a casting.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Thanks very much for the info so far. Is that a 6" barrel or 5" ?

[HeavyMetal]

I had one of those a few years ago and I rally liked it, it has the old style S&W internal so was a touch smoother than more mondrn ones.

You'll also find the extractor is a left hand thread, id I remeber right, and can unscrew itself with use unless lock tite is used on it.

as for the gun in the picture, until it is in ones hands it just a guess but I think an old Nickel job to cover pits and fake Ivory but hope not, let us know.

shold be a great shooter!

[MtGun44]

Hard to be sure, but I bet chrome plate. I have an old Victory model that
looked a lot like that, plastic grips on mine, no way to know until you see them
in person. Ivory has grain and microcracks, plastic is just plastic.

The sad part is that most chrome jobs were done by bumper platers and they
overbuffed the guns in general. Hope yours is a nice nickel and not over
buffed, but you can't really tell from the pix.

I lucked out on mine - ALL apart in a cigar box for $25 with a broken cyl stop.
Bought one and fixed it, but it is no prize for accuracy and the chrome is flaking
a bit, so . . . . yours looks a good bit more valuable and nicer than mine.

Bill

[Low Budget Shooter]

Thanks for the info, Bill.

[MtGun44]

Please report back. I hope you got a winner there - nickel and ivory are
a nice looking combo. These old S&Ws are nice guns, and while my Victory model
was just a rush job military WW2 gun to start with, that is a commercial grade and
built the old way, likely will be accurate with the right loads. Very likely is a .357 or
.358 cast at 750 fps will be accurate and a pleasure in that old girl.

Bill

[Char-Gar]

Non-factory nickel plate and aftermarket plastic grips. chrome doesn't blister and peal like nickel. I have several factory nickel M&Ps and they are very difficult to shoot well because of the reflection on those small sights. You will want to blacken the front and rear sights if you want to hit anything. Birch wood -Casey makes some good sight black that cleans off.

hangun had no collectors value. Keep the loads on the mild side as parts for these six guns are hard to come by.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Yes, I am counting on aftermarket finish and stocks. I figure if it were original one of the hawkeyes on gunbroker would have spotted it. I just want it to shoot for the kids. I appreciate very much the tip about blackening the sights. Thanks.

[Char-Gar]

Unless damaged, the sights on these old Smiths were well regulated for the service ammo of the day. A 155 to 160 grain cast plain base bullet over 3.2 grains of Bulleye should be dead on. You can goose this up to 3.5 grains, but stop there..please.

Lyman 358311 RN is a great bullet for these handguns and will be very accurate and duplicate the original load.

I have two of these pistols now. A 1913 4" barrel and a 1931 5" barrel. They are butter smooth and very accurate.

These handguns have the old "long action" that Smith changed to the "short action" a few years after WWII. There has never been a smoother DA sixgun than these old long action M&Ps.

[Outpost75]

If you do not have a mold yet, the Accurate 36-155D shoots to the sights in my old fixed sight guns and is of similar shape to the old .38 Colt's Special flatnose. It puts a much better hole through small game and the like than factory LRN.

As Chargar said, keep the loads light, in the range of 2.8 to 3.2 grains of Bullseye and you will enjoy the nice old gun for many years more. Occasional use of charges up to 3.5 grains of Bullseye is OK, but not for steady, frequent use, if you want the gun to stay tight.

116532119163

[Harry O]

It is an aftermarket nickel plating job, although it looks like a good one. The factory plated guns had a case hardened hammer and trigger. They were not nickel plated. I have seen a number of aftermarket plated revolvers. Many of them were not very good. Pretty much all of them had plated hammers and triggers. The most common problem is that the frame sideplate did not fit perfectly after plating. On those, the trigger pull was often heavy. It looks like this one fits pretty good, but you can check it for sure when you get it.

[Low Budget Shooter]

I appreciate all of this good info!

[6thtexas]

Those are old Franzite grips. I took a pair off my old .38 Hand Ejector.

[Char-Gar]

It is an aftermarket nickel plating job, although it looks like a good one. The factory plated guns had a case hardened hammer and trigger. They were not nickel plated. I have seen a number of aftermarket plated revolvers. Many of them were not very good. Pretty much all of them had plated hammers and triggers. The most common problem is that the frame sideplate did not fit perfectly after plating. On those, the trigger pull was often heavy. It looks like this one fits pretty good, but you can check it for sure when you get it.

I have a 1933 M&P in 32-20 that is factory nickle that also have the trigger and hammer plated. They are not polished but they are plated. I don't know when they did this or stopped doing this but for certain all post-war nickle plated Smith and Wessons had case hardened triggers and hammers as described.

I notice the polished and plated hammer and trigger in the pics of the subject handgun and like you that gave me notice of an aftermarket plating job.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Char, I love the way you pull out whatever old M&P illustrates a point being made. It's fun seeing those pics and hearing the features of the old guns. Thanks! LBS

[Char-Gar]

Char, I love the way you pull out whatever old M&P illustrates a point being made. It's fun seeing those pics and hearing the features of the old guns. Thanks! LBS

I was raised by my Grandparents and my Grandfather keep a Smith and Wesson 38-44 Heavy Duty (38 Special) in his sock drawer. I would sneak in a look at it. I do believe it was the most beautiful object I have ever seen up to that time. I have had a fascination with Smith and Wesson revolvers ever since.

Here is my 38-44 HD. It had a badly peeling aftermarket nickle job on it when I rescued it from a pawn shop about 1992. I had it denickled and give a "service" reblue. It is a very good shooter.

[9.3X62AL]

I agree with your actions on the "peeling nickel" 38-44, Char-Gar. I would likely have done a similar refinish. It is a handsome example.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Looks like tomorrow afternoon. I'm thinking of taking the cleaning kit, one of my daughters, and a few wadcutters with me. There's a nice little range on the way home.

[Char-Gar]

Looks like tomorrow afternoon. I'm thinking of taking the cleaning kit, one of my daughters, and a few wadcutters with me. There's a nice little range on the way home.

Take a little oil to squirt into it's innards. It is probably as dry as a popcorn fart.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Okay, I will. I appreciate when you really, really, really old guys pass along good advice. :)

[Char-Gar]

On several occasions, I have bought an old sixgun and took it to the range, to be disappointed in how it worked. At home, I found them to have old grease or oil turned to varnish and everything dry. After a cleanings and proper lubrication, they ran like a trotting pony, but I was crestfallen at the range. It is good to get a positive start with a new old handgun.

Open the cylinder a put a drop of oil on the bolt in the bottom of the cylinder window and another where the hand slides through the frame. Close the cylinder, cock the hammer and put two or three drops between the hammer and the frame. Cycle the action DA a few time to spread it out and you are good to go.

[Mk42gunner]

Just don't go overboard on putting oil into the inner workings. That is how they get gummed up in the first place.

Looks like it will provide years of enjoyment as long as you keep the loads reasonable, and can see the sights.

Robert

[revolvergeek]

LBS,

I have taken to giving all the old ones like that a nice oil bath and a long soak and good cleaning before shooting them. As mentioned sometimes they can have some scary gunk (a couple thick with white lithium grease and / or copper never seize!) in them. I'd be careful soaking anything plated though. I love old M&Ps and have had great luck with them as shooters. I have a couple from the late '40s / early '50s that are some of my favorite plinkers.

Outpost75,
That is an interesting mold! I am glad that you pointed that out. I'll have to think about that one. I have been wanting something that was between the Lee RNFP 158 and a plain old LRN 158. I love to look of the older ammo, and a couple of the old one just plain don't shoot the Lee as well as they do LRN, but I want cleaner holes in things.