Quandry....

[dlbarr]

So I love Black Powder....have been a ML shooter most of my life & ALL of my adult life.

Got into BPCR & reloading in the past couple of years and bought a H&R/NEF Handi-Rifle in 45/70 and added the BC barrel to this set up and I'm lovin' it. So I'm still getting my BP fix regularly as well as shooting smokeless rounds. Now, here's where it gets complicated....

Several months ago I bought a Marlin 1895 in 45/70. Love that gun. Love black powder.... see where this is going?

I realize the old timers used to shoot their levers with BP loads, but do I really want to have to disassemble this gun on a regular basis to clean it properly? Anybody else out there doing this? Can anybody relate?

[Akheloce]

I shoot BP in my Rossi R92 in 45 Colt.

When I got the rifle, I did a bunch of mods, stripped it down, and Froglubed it before even shot.

I shot about 25 rds BP through it, cleaned the bore only with froglube, and just tooth rushed the rest of the action the best I could without opening it up.

Rinse, wash and repeat several times, I'm now about 125 rds or so of BP. I just took it apart, and found it just fine. Sure, a little dirty, but nothing I was concerned about. I quick drenching with brake clean, and a new treatment of frog lube and its good to go.

[Nobade]

Black powder is about all I use in my Marlin 1895CB any more. If I want to shoot a whole silhouette match with it, I'll load a duplex charge of 5 gr. AA5744 and 60 gr. of Black under a grease groove boolit and I can shoot all day without having to wipe the bore. If I want to go straight black, I have made up a blow tube with a 90 deg. fitting to allow me to blow down the barrel between shots. Cleanup is a snap - with properly annealed cases there's zero blowback into the action so the only fouling is in the bore. With a Marlin the bolt comes out with one screw so you can clean it from the rear easily. A couple wet patches, a dry one, and an oiled one and you're done. Much easier and quicker than cleaning it up from shooting smokeless. I decap, rinse, and wet tumble my brass and in an hour that's done as well.

No worries about shooting black in your Marlin, go for it you'll enjoy the experience!

-Nobade

[country gent]

Another little trick if you do clean from the muzzle is to make a cradles up so the rifle can be cleaned upside down making gravity work in your favor and the fouling runs out the top instead of through the action and out.

[dlbarr]

Black powder is about all I use in my Marlin 1895CB any more. If I want to shoot a whole silhouette match with it, I'll load a duplex charge of 5 gr. AA5744 and 60 gr. of Black under a grease groove boolit and I can shoot all day without having to wipe the bore. If I want to go straight black, I have made up a blow tube with a 90 deg. fitting to allow me to blow down the barrel between shots. Cleanup is a snap - with properly annealed cases there's zero blowback into the action so the only fouling is in the bore. With a Marlin the bolt comes out with one screw so you can clean it from the rear easily. A couple wet patches, a dry one, and an oiled one and you're done. Much easier and quicker than cleaning it up from shooting smokeless. I decap, rinse, and wet tumble my brass and in an hour that's done as well.

No worries about shooting black in your Marlin, go for it you'll enjoy the experience!

-Nobade

OK, Nobade, need your help on a couple things:

1) Strange as it may sound, I don't know what annealing is to cases and how to do it
2) What is the purpose of the 5744/BP combination?

Appreciate the help and your experience.

[Nobade]

OK, Nobade, need your help on a couple things:

1) Strange as it may sound, I don't know what annealing is to cases and how to do it
2) What is the purpose of the 5744/BP combination?

Appreciate the help and your experience.

Sure!
Annealing makes the brass soft. That allows it to expand and seal the chamber at black powder pressures so no gas blows past it back at you. There are machines made to do this, and they're wonderful but I do it the simple way - spin the case with a hand drill using a Lee shell holder that's made for their case trimmer. Use a propane torch with a medium flame, and spin the mouth of the case in the flame for a bit. Watch the heat line and when it's about 1/4 to 1/3rd of the way down the case, take it out of the fire. You can either air cool it or water cool it, that doesn't seem to matter. The main thing is to not overheat the cases and burn them, and don't let the head get too hot. You want the head hard and the mouth soft. I do this maybe every 5th firing in the marlin, that seems to be enough to keep the cases working nicely.

The duplex load with 5744 under the black is an old trick to burn up the BP fouling. You don't want to use more than 10% smokeless under black, and use a powder that lights off easily and has a pretty fast burn rate for rifle powder. 4759 and 5744 are my favorites, but 4198 and others will work also. Figure one grain of smokeless has about the same energy as three grains of black and reduce the black charge accordingly. Doing this, you can shoot all day without any fouling accumulating in the barrel so you don't have to worry about wiping. Of course still clean it at the end of the day like you were shooting straight loads of black.

Hope this helps, enjoy the BP in your Marlin!

-Nobade

[OuchHot!]

I have found as nobade points out that some flavors of 38-55 and 45-70 brass are a bit too stiff and do not seal adequately. If you get a seal, there really isn't any BP residue in the action. I shoot BP in levers all the time but I anneal new brass. I love starline brass but the brass that I have gotten needed annealing.

[doc1876]

somewhere on here is a killer video of an automatic aneiling machine. It is in a sticky

[country gent]

38-55, 45-70, 45-90 all come from starline with a card in the bag stating that if you are going to use Black Powder the cases need to be annealed first for best results. I also anneal winchester when new also.

[Nobade]

somewhere on here is a killer video of an automatic aneiling machine. It is in a sticky

My boss has a Vertex annealing machine. That thing is absolutely wonderful! You couldn't believe how quickly and accurately you can anneal large numbers of cartridge cases. The only real drawback is it costs 500 bucks. But if you need to process large numbers of cases, it's a very good way to go. Me, I do it the hard way. But I also don't run through a thousand cases every month or so either.

-Nobade

[John Boy]

I realize the old timers used to shoot their levers with BP loads, but do I really want to have to disassemble this gun on a regular basis to clean it properly?
Not required! Example of my levers, the one I shoot most is a '92 Winchester is 45 Colt reloads. Since 2000 and over 15,000 rounds down the bore, I have disassembled it twice for cleaning. And found past the face of the bolt it was not really necessary.
Regular cleaning consists of bore - lifter - face of chambers - bolt rails - bolt face and that's it. This area will receive blow back from your rounds and is the reason for cleaning these areas