Good overall diameter for .38 Special cast boolits?!

[jayjay1]

Hey guys,
I know, this is maybe a dumb question, but I don´t have any experience with the .38 Special.
Of course I know, that the nominal diameter is .357", so the cast boolit dia would be .358" - theoretically.

Some fellows asked me to make them coated bullets for their .38 Specials.
Well, I had a LEE 158-358 RF mold (which I wanted to try in my 9mm, what failed), and started to cast and coat.

Unfortunately I only do have a .3575" sizing die for my star sizer, which is perfect for my 9mm, but left some crumbs in 3 revolvers, where we´ve tested the 38 coated loads.
(But well, the groups out of those three revolvers were absolutely amazing, so the owners want some more bullets immediately.)

So I´m thinking, that .3575" is to small for the 38 caliber revolvers, and I need a new sizing die to get this fixed.
I could slug one or the other barrel, but in my club there are 8 turning pistola owners who want now bullets from me, seven different S&W and one Colt.

What is the best way to go?
.358", .3585", .359" or even more?

The mold throws lightly above .359".

[Calamity Jake]

Each gun has it's likes and dislikes for size, one size boolit may not work for all.
Each gun needs to be slugged for size, both in the throat and barrel.

[jayjay1]

This doesn´t help me much.

Like I said, this boolits must go for a lot revolvers and I won´t size some different, nosir.

So, what might be a good average dia for the 38 Spec.?

[seaboltm]

.358 works for me. Microgroove guns might like a bit larger boolit.

[Ed_Shot]

+1 for .358. I size all 38/357 and 9MM to .358 and it works perfectly. My microgrove Marlin 1894 and H&R like .358 just fine. I have .356 and .357 H&I dies that I never use. If I was going to bet on one for all I pick .358.

[aap2]

.358 works well for all of my .38 specials.....

[Outpost75]

Try the bullets you have as-cast and unsized. If they chamber and extract liaded rounds easily, shoot the m that way. If rounds don't chamber fully and extract freely, run them through the Lee Factory Crimp die.

[leeggen]

Not to be rude JayJay1 I basicly have the same problem. My relatives and friends found out I cast and load so now they think I should load for all of them. I have solved the problem by telling them if they by the dies, sizer, molds, powder, primers and cases and help find lead I'll load for their specific pistol. Seems I now have more time for my own loading. They don't want to drop $100 to $150 for basic equipment, but if I was to do that they wanted a couple hundred rounds each. It is hard to get 7 or 8 guns to match on size for shooting lead or even to use the same lube. Son-n-law told my wifes brother to talk to me about 38 spl. but he needed to buy the equipment for me to do so, and that worked out great cause I got a 9mm to load for so boolit molds worked out just fine at his expense.
If I loaded for everyone that ask I would need alot more equipment. Also just to many things can go wrong against me in loading like that.
CD

[DougGuy]

If you are going to size to .359" there's a lot of cylinder throats that are gonna need reaming and honing. If the boolit don't go in the throat from the front, all bets are off b/c not only will the throats size them down, they will take the coating off them as well. If the boolit won't go into the throat from the rear, then the round won't fully chamber.

Slugging the barrel is a waste of time if the boolit won't go through the cylinder throats.

[StratsMan]

JayJay1.... I don't understand the problem... you say that the group sizes with the boolits you cast earlier are fine. Why mess with success??? You also said there were some crumbs in the barrel from using coated boolits. What kind of coating did you use?? (I know I've always had some powder coat 'crumbs' no matter the diameter of the boolit I used...) Also, did you check the finished diameter of the boolits in the cases??? Sometimes the loading process will reduce the diameter of the boolit.

I either shoot mine as-cast, or I run them through a .358 die... but I've noticed they will spring back, too... sometimes up to .359...

[Garyshome]

Have to slug the bore.

[jayjay1]

Not to be rude JayJay1 I basicly have the same problem. My relatives and friends found out I cast and load so now they think I should load for all of them. I have solved the problem by telling them if they by the dies, sizer, molds, powder, primers and cases and help find lead I'll load for their specific pistol. Seems I now have more time for my own loading. They don't want to drop $100 to $150 for basic equipment, but if I was to do that they wanted a couple hundred rounds each. It is hard to get 7 or 8 guns to match on size for shooting lead or even to use the same lube. Son-n-law told my wifes brother to talk to me about 38 spl. but he needed to buy the equipment for me to do so, and that worked out great cause I got a 9mm to load for so boolit molds worked out just fine at his expense.
If I loaded for everyone that ask I would need alot more equipment. Also just to many things can go wrong against me in loading like that.
CD

There´s a lot thruth in this words.

Don´t forget about the time.

But with the so earned money, my shooting will get paid, so.

[jayjay1]

JayJay1.... I don't understand the problem... you say that the group sizes with the boolits you cast earlier are fine. Why mess with success??? You also said there were some crumbs in the barrel from using coated boolits. What kind of coating did you use?? (I know I've always had some powder coat 'crumbs' no matter the diameter of the boolit I used...) Also, did you check the finished diameter of the boolits in the cases??? Sometimes the loading process will reduce the diameter of the boolit.

I either shoot mine as-cast, or I run them through a .358 die... but I've noticed they will spring back, too... sometimes up to .359...


With the 38, I don´t have a "case-downsizing" problem.
Those cases are very thin at the front.

Yes, I pull always some dummy-bullets when I´m doing a new load.

[6bg6ga]

I've always sized to .358 but to be 100% you need to slug the barrel of the gun your using. Others have also stated this. If your interested I have an unused Lathesmith .359 die that has 3 lube hole rows.

[bobthenailer]

FME I have allways used a .358 dia boolet in every 38/357 mag firearm ive ever had ( about 16) with no leading and excellent accuracy .
Except for 2 all were S&W.

[Larry Gibson]

This doesn´t help me much.

Like I said, this boolits must go for a lot revolvers and I won´t size some different, nosir.

So, what might be a good average dia for the 38 Spec.?

I've pin measured the throats on a lot of S&W, Colt, Ruger and Uberti and a couple other revolvers in .38 SPL and .357 magnum. They all measured .357 - .358". I size all my .38 SPL and .357 Magnum bullets at .358 also and haven't had a single problem. I also use a softer lube such as LLA, NRA 50/50 or BAC.

Larry Gibson

[gwpercle]

Back in the dark ages when I started, Lyman Cast Bullet Book #3 said to size .357. So I sized them .357 for years. Book #4 now says .358. So I got a .358 sizer. I can honestly say I see absolutely no difference in accuracy and neither size leads my revolvers.
I'm thinking .3575 is a good compromise. Go with it.
Getting amazing groups? It just don't get no better than amazing!
Gary

[bedbugbilly]

I have nine 38s / 357s and I size to .358 for all of them - never have a problem with leading. All depends on the revolver - throat size is going to make a difference.

Related to that - I just bought a 357 Handi-Rifle and have been playing with loads for that. I have some molds that I can shoot "as cast" - on that rifle, the chamber is tight and I needed to size to .358 or the cartridge was on the "snug side" when pushed in the chamber.

[williamwaco]

I have owned around 40 .38 and .357 revolvers. I have never owned one that didn't handle perfectly with .358 bullets.

I also have never owned one that will reliably chamber with bullets sized .360. About one in ten will not chamber in my revolvers. Fortunately they will chamber in my TC so I don't have to pull them.

[jayjay1]

Thanks for your response folks!

I´ve casted some harder bullets yesterday, after the reading inhere, and will try my .3575 - sizer with them.
Just to see how it goes, like I said, the groups were good as can be, wanna just get rid of those crumbs.

If that won´t work, I will order another sizing die from Chris/lathesmith.

Cheers!
:drinks:

[Petrol & Powder]

I'll toss in my $0.02, .358" seems to work in most 38 Special guns. I will say that those are predominantly S&W or Ruger. Colts do tend to be a bit odd at times. Not bad, just different.

[gwpercle]

Just what, exactly, are " crumbs" and where do they show up???

Gary

[Char-Gar]

What the $%&( is a crumb as related to a firearm?

Forget about slugging the barrels as the numbers you get will have no relevance to your decision.

The best accuracy will be achieved with a good fit of the bullet to the cylinder throat. The cylinder throat is the important number to know.

Smith and Wesson throats will run .357 - .3575

Colt throats will run a pretty even .359

The traditional sizing number for the 38 Special is .358. This will work well in both Smith and Wesson and Colt sixguns. I have no idea about Rugers or other makes.

While .358 will work well in Smiths, .357 will deliver a smidge more accuracy if that is important and for most purposes it is not. .359 will deliver a smidge more accuracy in Colts if that is important and again, for most purposes it is not.

The suggestion by Outpost75 is a good one, but not one I follow. Just because I don't do it, does not mean it does not have merit.

If you have a .3575 die I see no reason to lay out money for anything larger or smaller and it won't make much of a difference. Having no idea what "crumbs" are, I can't speak to those, but changing the sizing diameter will not be relevant in your program of crumb eradication, whatever they are.

The cylinder throat numbers above comes from a data base of scores of Smith and Wesson and Colt sixguns, I have slugged (barrels) and measured (throats) over the past 40 years. After a while you figure out the parameters and manufacturing tolerances in the finished products.

FYI... Smith barrels will run a uniform .357 - .3573 in the grooves and Colts will run .354 - .355. I have found one tight Smith at .356 and one whopping big Colt, again at .356. These numbers really don't matter as per the above, but just include them for general information.

[glicerin]

I have a K frame m14 S&W which shaves anything over .3565, and won't chamber .3575 in win ni brass. My P85 ruger 9mm slugs about .359, but shoots reasonably lead-free with .358. For you .3575 is probably a fair compromise.
ps: in canada selling reloads is illegal(unless u have a license to remanufacture).

[Char-Gar]

I have a K frame m14 S&W which shaves anything over .3565, and won't chamber .3575 in win ni brass. My P85 ruger 9mm slugs about .359, but shoots reasonably lead-free with .358. For you .3575 is probably a fair compromise.
ps: in canada selling reloads is illegal(unless u have a license to remanufacture).

Shaves what, where?

[9.3X62AL]

.358 has always shot well for me in Colt--S&W--and Ruger revolvers. .359" shoots well in all but one of my Colts, an OMT in 38 Special--the front bands on #358429 @ .359" just won't fully "go home". I have almost all of the H&I sizes from .355" to .368", the ones getting the most use are .357" for the 9mms and .358" or .359" for the 38s and 357s. I haven't used .355" or .356" in over 20 years.

[Fishman]

Well I appear to be in the minority. I have been sizing all of my .357, .38, and 9mm boolits to .359, and it works in all of the pistols and revolvers I've tried it in, likely 15 or more. Sounds like .358 would be a safer bet from other's experiences.

[robertbank]

I run 38spl sized .358 through all my revolvers and my Rossi rifle. Accuracy is excellent. I would not bother slugging the bore. Make sure the cylinder throats are at least .358.

Take Care

Bob

[Wayne Smith]

I cast for four Smith's and one Colt, all of them chamber .359 with difficulty - tight. I size to .358 and don't look back.