.45 ACP 200gr RN? Or like Missouri Bullet IDP#4?

[mongoose33]

I have an XD-45, and as it's a service pistol designed to run FMJ bullets, it does not like SWC designs. Upon ejection, it's not unusual for the base of the ejecting cartridge to hang up on the lip of the SWC bullet, so that kind of design is out.

I'm starting casting my own bullets, and want to cast for my XD-45. I've been using Missouri Bullet's IDP #4-XD (http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=78&category=5&secondary=13&keywords=) for years and it runs flawlessly. I tried the Lee 200gr RNFP but the meplat is just too wide--it doesn't want to easily guide into the chamber.

You can see how that looks here, with the Lee offering on the left, the Missouri Bullet offering on the right. I want a mold that will produce a 200gr bullet like the one on the right.

116187

None of the "standard" manufacturers appear to have a profile or weight like this. I don't want to go to 230gr RN if I don't have to, I don't see any reason to waste lead in a bullet I'm using in competitions or just for plinking.


So, what to do? I did run across this design at Accurate Molds: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-200M-D.png and that looks like it might suffice. I'm not made of money so an Aluminum block would be what I'd choose.


Is this pretty much it? Lee and Lyman don't offer anything, I can't afford a Saeco design (at least I didn't see one that wouldn't set me back the better part of two Benjamins). Anyone know of a mold out there other than the above which will produce a profile like the IDP #4-XD?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

[Springfield]

Accurate makes great moulds, you can't go wrong with one of theirs. Nothing wrong with aluminum either, especially the higher quality ones.

[Bullshop Junior]

I have the lee 200gn round nose and it feeds flawlessly in my 1911. But the 1911 I have will eat up anything.

[mongoose33]

I have the lee 200gn round nose and it feeds flawlessly in my 1911. But the 1911 I have will eat up anything.

I can't see anything like this in the mold chart on Lee's site. Could you point me to a link for it? Don't see it on Midway's site, either, but it sounds just like what I'm looking for.

[Cmm_3940]

HM2 ​makes a 200gr mold pretty much exactly like you are looking for, or you can try the 228gr Lee 1R RN.

http://heavymetalmolds.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=31

[Bullshop Junior]

I have the lee 2R. I got it at cabelas a week ago.

[mongoose33]

I have the lee 2R. I got it at cabelas a week ago.

Looks like a great profile, but it appears to be 230gr, and I'm looking for 200gr.

[Bullshop Junior]

I have a 200gn.

[Bullshop Junior]

The mold number is LH 450-200. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/12/f291306f7b99f0d9502566a383ff96ed.jpg

[Dusty Bannister]

That is most likely the mold for the 44 cal Rem 450-200-1R for the black powder revolver.
Lee number 90382. The LH means the sprue screw is left handed, not the old style right handed thread.

[mongoose33]

Unfortunately that produces a boolit with a diameter of .450. It's close though, darned close.

[Bullshop Junior]

Mine drops at .4515" cast with air cooled COWW.

[Bullshop Junior]

You could always hone it out too. .001 is not much.

[Ido356]

Mongoose33, I feel your pain, too have the Lee 200gr with the large meplat and my Taurus 24/7 won't shoot them unless I seat them to a OAL of 1.125, and I still have a few FTRB,s.
Actually that's what I'm doing on today,(lol -no i'm not laughing, more like crying) but a 230gr is less than a 22 boolit so it's not that much and you may end up using less powder.

[mongoose33]

Thanks all--and Bullshop, thanks for the addendum--I was going to ask that.


For now, I think I'll get the Accurate mold and see where that takes me. I'm not new to reloading, have shot cast bullets for years, but only now am I getting into doing it myself. When I get that down to where I feel competent at it, I'll branch out into things like lapping molds. And I may if I can get it on sale, pick up that mold Bullshop is using and see--it might work in my application.

[Outpost75]

http://heavymetalmolds.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=31 Only $115 for a 4-cavity.

This bullet works well for me and is almost identical to the ones you are buying from Missouri Bullet.

116239

[mongoose33]

http://heavymetalmolds.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=31 Only $115 for a 4-cavity.

This bullet works well for me and is almost identical to the ones you are buying from Missouri Bullet.

116239

I really like that profile but there's that little lip (is this a semi-semi-wadcutter design? :) ) and unless i know it will feed past that in the XD-45 it would be tough to buy that mold.

This is an issue only in an XD-45, which simply doesn't like SWC designs.

[Outpost75]

It's not a "lip" it is the top driving band, refer to the drawing. This drawing happens to be of the .45 Colt version, you can order the bullet in a smaller .452 diameter for the .45 ACP. If the shoulder bothers you, you can seat the bullet with the top driving band flush to the case mouth.

116249

[Bullshop Junior]

It's not a "lip" it is the top driving band, refer to the drawing. This drawing happens to be of the .45 Colt version, you can order the bullet in a smaller .452 diameter for the .45 ACP. If the shoulder bothers you, you can seat the bullet with the top driving band flush to the case mouth.

116249

You can also crimp over the top of it too.

[mongoose33]

It's not a "lip" it is the top driving band, refer to the drawing. This drawing happens to be of the .45 Colt version, you can order the bullet in a smaller .452 diameter for the .45 ACP. If the shoulder bothers you, you can seat the bullet with the top driving band flush to the case mouth.

116249

No, I understand that, but whether it's a "lip" or the driving band or whatever, it creates a ledge that the rim of the extracting cartridge might catch on. I like this design better than all the others, honestly. I wish I knew someone was shooting it in an XD-45 with no issues, and I'd be on it in a New York minute.

I haven't ordered the Accurate mold yet--does anyone know of anybody who's shooting this successfully in an XD-45? I would rather have this mold than the other, but I don't want to dump $115 into a mold whose bullets result in feed/extraction errors.

As I look at the bullet profile in the rounds you have pictured above, it almost appears to me as if the bullet's ogive would prevent the extracting case rim from getting to the "lip," "driving band," whatever name I attach to it.

[Outpost75]

FWIW it is reliable in the M1A1 Thompson.

[Bullshop Junior]

Maybe buy a hundred from someone with the mold to try?

[Ido356]

I've been working on mine this morning to find out were the failure to return were coming from. I looked at the rounds that I had problems with and they all had the same defect, when seating they all shaved a little bit off and left it on the rim.

I opened the case flare extra large (xx-large) and moved my seating die so it was not crimping while seating (Lee dies) seated the boolits to 1.130, and then ran them up the Lee full taper crimp die with no crimp just re sizing the flare and they all fed and shot great.

I might not give up on this one just yet, the boolets group nice when you can get them to feed.

[mongoose33]

Maybe buy a hundred from someone with the mold to try?

Not a bad idea. Anyone have some they'd want to sell me?

I finally realized a picture is worth at least several hundred words, and I remembered seeing one that explained the issue--here it is:


116259

I know some might tell me to get a different gun--I have a 1911 in .45acp as well--but the XD is a tank, it shoots more accurately than anything else I have, and I'm just not giving it up! :) :)

Anyway, the pic above shows the issue. The pistol was not designed as a target pistol, it's a service pistol and a tank. So I need a bullet profile that prevents the above.

[Cmm_3940]

Are you sure that's what's actually happening? The bolt (slide, whatever) body should hold the following round down in the magazine until the spent round is clear. I've never seen this problem occur in my 1911's, XDm, or XDs.

Keep in mind that .45ACP headspaces on the case mouth. You can't get rid of that bump altogether.

ETA: Have you checked your extractor tension? Is it holding the spent round loosely and allowing it to droop and catch?

[dnotarianni]

I run this in an XD and an XDM with no problems at all. I designed this mold and had Tom make it for me. Runs great in a 1911 also. I'm running it with 4.5 of Bullseye for steel plates with a 14lb spring in the XDs. Will send you some to try if you want
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-180E-D.png
Dave

[Love Life]

That "lip", or forward driving band, is on the H&G 34 which feeds like nobody's business through more 45's than I feel like naming right now.

[TXGunNut]

That "lip", or forward driving band, is on the H&G 34 which feeds like nobody's business through more 45's than I feel like naming right now.

For my 1911's that "lip" needs to be seated the thickness of a thumbnail (now THAT'S precision! ;-) ) above the case mouth. Do a search on the "plunk" test for more details on proper 45acp headspace. I'm thinking the boolit isn't the issue, a hard look at the extractor is probably a good idea. Possibly a bit of dirt under the extractor or insufficient tension.

[bigboredad]

When I had my xd I had Tom cut the 45-200B it ran thru my xd like butter and any other .45 I've fed it.

[mongoose33]

For my 1911's that "lip" needs to be seated the thickness of a thumbnail (now THAT'S precision! ;-) ) above the case mouth. Do a search on the "plunk" test for more details on proper 45acp headspace. I'm thinking the boolit isn't the issue, a hard look at the extractor is probably a good idea. Possibly a bit of dirt under the extractor or insufficient tension.

I've been reloading for many years and the "plunk test" is my standard case gage test. If I don't get that nice "twoink" sound when I drop a completed round in the barrel, I know I have a chambering issue somewhere--insufficient taper crimp, too large diameter a bullet, junk on the rim of the cartridge or inside the chamber, something.

[mongoose33]

Are you sure that's what's actually happening? The bolt (slide, whatever) body should hold the following round down in the magazine until the spent round is clear. I've never seen this problem occur in my 1911's, XDm, or XDs.

Keep in mind that .45ACP headspaces on the case mouth. You can't get rid of that bump altogether.

ETA: Have you checked your extractor tension? Is it holding the spent round loosely and allowing it to droop and catch?

It's not an idiosyncratic issue that just occurs on my gun; all of them of the same vintage and design have this issue. To wit:

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/239132-xdm-5-25-45acp-swc-s.html

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-45acp-discussion-room/112695-semi-wadcutter-feed-mods.html

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ammo-can/151530-200g-swc-xd-45-acp.html

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-45acp-discussion-room/58545-45-swc-jamming.html

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ammo-can/187914-45-acp-200-gr-swc-wst.html


It's not a pistol designed to shoot SWC, it's a service pistol. It is my SHTF gun, it runs and runs and runs. It's actually a leading-edge gun as Glock has taken to copying features of XD designs such as the drop safety and the replaceable backstrap.

[bangerjim]

I've been working on mine this morning to find out were the failure to return were coming from. I looked at the rounds that I had problems with and they all had the same defect, when seating they all shaved a little bit off and left it on the rim.

I opened the case flare extra large (xx-large) and moved my seating die so it was not crimping while seating (Lee dies) seated the boolits to 1.130, and then ran them up the Lee full taper crimp die with no crimp just re sizing the flare and they all fed and shot great.

I might not give up on this one just yet, the boolets group nice when you can get them to feed.

I solved a myriad of 1911 45ACP cycling/loading problems by going to 451 sizing die and then a LEE factory crimp die. Now I can load any design 200 & 230 slug in my 1911's and they work perfectly.

You might have to look into a throat reamer (~$40) from Brownell's. I have read where that will fix obnoxious ACP cycling and loading problems. I did not need to go that far to address my problems.

Good luck taming "the beast"! That is why I still prefer 45LC's!

banger

[Outpost75]

All of this discussion makes an M1911 look better all the time.

Why would anybody want to buy a defense pistol with such a well documented design defect?

[Bullshop Junior]

All of this discussion makes an M1911 look better all the time.

Why would anybody want to buy a defense pistol with such a well documented design defect?

My 1911 eats everything.

[Outpost75]

My 1911 eats everything.

Precisely! So does my S&W Hand Ejector Model of 1917 U.S. Army.

[seagiant]

Hi,
I use a MiHec Clone H&G#68 200 gr. SWC sized to .451 and have no problems in ANY 45 ACP pistol. I also use a taper crimp and have never had any problems.

[bangerjim]

All of this discussion makes an M1911 look better all the time.

Why would anybody want to buy a defense pistol with such a well documented design defect?


Many of us buy guns for the fun of shooting them, not trying to kill someone. That's the reason.

I would NEVER use that big bulky 1911 for defense. Too big to hide, too big to carry.

Great for plinking and perforating paper! Mabe if someone tries to rob me at the shooting range!!!!

banger

[Bullshop Junior]

I carry a 1911. I like a real steel gun that you know it's there.

[Bullshop Junior]

How about the mihec 200gn Cramer HP? One of my favorite 45 bullets (my dad has the mold)

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/14/29afac1ea70be69d4ffc42e77bee9dec.jpg

[TomAM]

I know exactly what you mean by the extracted case hitting the leading edge of the front band.

I first encountered this on the Witness 45 ACP about 20 years ago. I was shocked that anyone would build an auto where the case rim would hang down below the bolt face. That gun would peel back the case mouth, like a banana, of the next round in the magazine if the bullet had a shoulder that would let it get started.
Now, it's rather common for guns to have slides that are short that way.

Definitely something that you have to watch out for.

[mongoose33]

All of this discussion makes an M1911 look better all the time.

Why would anybody want to buy a defense pistol with such a well documented design defect?

Because pistols designed for defense don't shoot SWC for their bullets? :)

[manickernel]

Lotta pics of pretty boolits in this thread though.

[MtGun44]

"I'd never use that big bulky 1911 for defense. Too big to hide, too big to carry. "

LOL! 1911 is one of the easiest guns to conceal due to being far thinner
than almost any other gun over .380 caliber. I carry a 1911 every single
day, easy to conceal and much thinner than any of the plastic "modern"
designs. All of the double stacks are far more likely to print due to being
so fat in the grips. I challenge you to find a 9mm, .40 or .45 that is thinner
through the slide except the Browning HP and the CZ 75 and variants, both
of which have the double stack "fat butt" problem that overrides the thin slide.

Also, check the bore center heights - almost all sit much higher in the hand
than the 1911. Sig and Beretta are the worst for this.

Bill

[Bullshop Junior]

Let me tell you. I was very glad to have the 45 1911 in my hand last time I had a self defense situation. Not all self defense is against humans. I'd rather have a 45 over a 40 or a 9 any day facing down a angry hog.