Colt Army Special won't fire in DA

[mdevlin53]

I purchased a Colt Army Special in 32-20 and it is a great little gun but it seems to have a problem when firing it in double action mode. It marks the primers but not enough to fire the round. If i pull back the hammer on one of these misfires it will fire fine. It works fine in single action mode. Is this a common problem? in all other reguards the pistol operates as it should lockup is good and the timing is spot on. any experts out there ever seen this before?
your help and experience is welcomed
Michael

[fourarmed]

I had a Hi Standard Sentinel .22 that had that problem. I assumed it was a weak hammer spring, but did not replace it. At the time, I did not do much double-action shooting.

[Dframe]

It's possible that someone has bent the mainspring while trying to lighten the trigger pull. Usually an object such as a dowell was placed inside the v spring, and the hammer deliberately cocked creating a slight bend in the spring. While this is a legitimate technique, it is often (as in almost always) overdone, and a too light mainspring results. The symptoms you describe are classic for a too light mainspring. Try removing your stocks and inspecting the spring. If it has been bent they can sometimes be retensioned. To so so the spring must be removed and rebent. It's a trial and error that usually takes several tries to get right, and there is always the possibility of breaking the spring so go slow and easy.

[bedbugbilly]

I have a Colt 38 spl Army Special - DOB of 1910. Never had a problem with it as far as whet you are experiencing. My main spring is original to it and pretty stiff though.

I don't know why SA and DA would be any different in regards to what I'm going to ask as it shouldn't be - but you don't mention what you are shooting in regards to the 32/20 ammo? Any chance it has small rifle primers instead of small pistol primers? If SRP, that may be the problem? If SPP, then check your springs first and then dry fire it in in DA and watch to see if the hammer travel catches on the way down?

Let us know if you figure it out - we can all learn from it! Thanks!

[WARD O]

Try switching primers - some are harder than others.

Don't be using rifle primers even if you consider the 32 WCF a rifle cartridge. The primer cups are thicker.

[mdevlin53]

the primers never occured to me and yes they are small rifle primers. i have a 32-20 rifle so thats why i bought the pistol in that caliber to take advantage of dies and brass on hand. I will have to finf som small Pistol primers and give that a test. it just might be the trick.
Thanks for the info
Michael

[dubber123]

the primers never occured to me and yes they are small rifle primers. i have a 32-20 rifle so thats why i bought the pistol in that caliber to take advantage of dies and brass on hand. I will have to finf som small Pistol primers and give that a test. it just might be the trick.
Thanks for the info
Michael

bedbugbilly made a nice catch there, I would bet a pistol primer will fix your problem. If you can find them, Federal primers are by far the softest and easiest to ignite. CCI's are about the hardest, Wins and Rems seem in the middle to me.

[leeggen]

But would the srp also effect the single action? I would think the single action would have miss fires also, atleast some. Wondering minds want answers.
CD

[tazman]

Due to the way the actions work, in most revolvers the DA stroke doesn't cock the hammer quite as far back as the single action does. Hence the single action hits harder.

[leftiye]

bedbugbilly made a nice catch there, I would bet a pistol primer will fix your problem. If you can find them, Federal primers are by far the softest and easiest to ignite. CCI's are about the hardest, Wins and Rems seem in the middle to me.

Rem 1 1/2s are really thin/soft too. Will perforate on anything resembling high pressure. Actually a good safety check.

[mdevlin53]

I dont load the rounds hot so would it be ok to use the SPP in the rifle. I really don't want to have two types of ammo and would like to be able to shoot the same rounds in either gun. So what is the common take on using the small pistol primers in a rifle?

[dubber123]

I dont load the rounds hot so would it be ok to use the SPP in the rifle. I really don't want to have two types of ammo and would like to be able to shoot the same rounds in either gun. So what is the common take on using the small pistol primers in a rifle?

I use only small pistol primers in both my Marlin and my old S&W's. I have never pushed a 100 gr. boolit much past 1,600 fps in my Marlin. As long as the loads aren't rifle only type, you should be fine.

[44man]

Due to the way the actions work, in most revolvers the DA stroke doesn't cock the hammer quite as far back as the single action does. Hence the single action hits harder.
Here is the reason, beat me to it. Good catch on the primers too.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think Dframe [appropriate name for someone giving Colt advice] hit the nail on the head. Either the spring is just weak or, more likely, someone attempted to "adjust" the spring. Those Colt "V" springs are easy to break when attempting to reset them. I would suggest attempting to locate a replacement spring before you go bending on the current one.

[gwpercle]

Try small pistol primers before doing anything, that will probably "fix" it. It really doesn't need rifle primers in a revolver application. Just checked Lyman #4 , Cast bullet, handgun data, 32-20 and they specified Small Pistol primers.
Gary

[Petrol & Powder]

I just re-read the post about the rifle primers, my mistake. Yes, try small pistol primers first before you do anything to the gun.

[gray wolf]

Just a thought,
If you use the SPP in the rifle the firing pin spring may be a little stronger.
Make sure you do not pierce the softer primer cups.

Again !! just a thought

[9.3X62AL]

I concur with the SPP advice given above as a good first step to diagnosing the problem.

One of the "advantages" of the system in which ammo can be fed to both a rifle and a revolver is supply chain simplicity. Sometimes it even works well. 44-40 WCF and 44 Magnum have worked out well for me, and I use Large Pistol primers in the 44-40/Large Pistol Magnum in the 44 Mag loads for all firearms so chambered.

The 32-20 is a LOT quirkier caliber for my fleet of wheelguns and the rifle so chambered. Throat and groove diameters vary a bit, which I can address by going "biggest is best" (.314"). The real issue is load intensity--Win 92 and Marlin 94 variants are quite capable of safely digesting "High Velocity" loadings that can send the usual 115 grain bullets found in this caliber to 1800 FPS, into the 30 U.S. Carbine toll-free dialing area. Very few revolvers ever chambered in 32-20 should fire such loads, and I would keep the HV rounds out of any Win 73 also.

One element in the ballistic equation I have changed in the 32-20 WCF rifle loads (22 Hornet, 25-20 WCF, and 30 Carbine as well) is the primer used. Rifle primer cup thickness is necessary for the higher pressures seen in these applications, but the usual run of small rifle primers like the CCI 400 or WSR or Rem 7-1/2 are a bit much for the small cases used here. Essentially, these SR primers "over-ignite" these small cartridges. The Rem #6-1/2 is specifically developed for use in these small rifle calibers/cases, and my comparisons between the 6-1/2s and the other SRs show more consistent velocities and uniformly better accuracy--esp. a reduction in vertical stringing. These results parallel my results found by using pistol primers, without the concern about thinner cup strengths.

Just my observations.

[mdevlin53]

The rifle I have is an old Husqvarna model 25 in 32-20. Made in the early 1900s so with that in mind i don't load anywhere near max. Same goes for the pistol it was made in the early 1900s as well. both are used at the range and for no other purpose so I dont have to worry about stopping power, there are other guns for stopping game. With that said it will be at the earliest sometime later this week before i can get some SRPs and then however long it takes me to reload and shoot the test. I think this will be the problem solver.
It is wonderful that I can pose a question here and get so many responses this site has helped me with so many things all I can say is thanks ad keep helping.
Michael

[bedbugbilly]

Tazman describes the hammer movement well . . . .

As far as SPP being used for both your pistol and rifle rounds - as mentioned - give it a try and then check the primer strikes from your rifle to make sure you aren't piercing the primer - you should be fine though.

Basically, the 32/20 was designed as a rifle cartridge which ended up being used in pistols -

Now look at the reverse - I have a Handi-Rifle that shoots 357 - a rifle shooting a pistol cartridge and if you don't reload, most owners would be buying pistol cartridges off the shelf to shoot in it. I just bot the Handi but my first time out, I initiated it by shooting some of my 38 Spl. reloads in it - which of cours have SPP - worked just fine even with a heavy firing pin hit.

Hopefully, the switch to the SPP will solve your problem - if not - you've eliminated that "possible cause" and then can go from there. You've got the best of both worlds - both a pistol and a rifle in 32-20. A nice historical cartridge that's fun. I keep looking for either a rifle or a pistol chambered in that cartridge as I'd love to have one to shoot and reload for. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[9.3X62AL]

I didn't and don't mean to cast aspersions on the 32-20 WCF caliber. It is an all-time favorite of mine, and though I have made noise elsewhere on this site about reducing my number of calibers and firearms on hand......the 32-20 contingent will not be a part of that revision. The cartridge is far too useful for the usual range of varmints and small game that make up much of the hunting I still do.

1873-level/blackpowder-equivalent loadings are safe for virtually all quality firearms chambered in this caliber. Such loads impart about 1200 FPS to most rifles and carbines, and close to 900 FPS in revolvers to the 115 grain-class bullets most commonly fired in this caliber. One possible exception in my experience is the Colt Police Positive Special......in these little jewels, I reduced Ken Waters' "Pet Load" of 6.0 grains of SR-4756 to 5.5 grains. This was from an abundance of caution concerning the age and relative delicacy of the revolver. That little 4" still placed the 115 grainers right where the sights looked to 50 yards, much to the chagrin and permanent disappointment of numerous ground squirrels and jackrabbits.

These 1873-level loads deliver ballistics much like those of the 22 LR HV from either the handgun or the rifle. The difference, of course, is caused by the significantly larger diameter and bullet weight almost 3X heavier in the 31 caliber slug connecting downrange. The 32-20 is a far better varminter and game-taker than the 22 LR; crippling losses no longer occur, critters are DRT. These load intensities don't require gas check bullets, either--plain-base castings are good to go, and ammo can be assembled at low cost.

[mdevlin53]

So the problem seems to be the primers. I picked up some CCI small pistol primers and put them in 6 unloaded cases and fired them in the pistol in DA mode and they all fired. i have the rest of my spoent brass out of the tumbler and on the bench ready to reload so i will use the new primers and take it to the range later this week or early next.
One thing i did check was the spring. took the grips off and placed it to full cock. the spring came together with just about no space between the leaves. If i operated it in DA mode the spring did not close as much with about a 3/32 gap. this leads me to think that softer primers are the way to go.
When i take it to the range i will also bring the rifle and try the new primers in each.
Thanks for all the help and i think my problem is solved.
Michael

[9.3X62AL]

CCI SP primers are likely the hardest of SP primers I've used, so if your revolver will light them off reliably........you should be good to go. My experience has shown SP primer hardness to range as follows, softest to hardest......Federal, Remington, Winchester, CCI.