Does anyone load for a Luger?

[dubber123]

I am fooling with a German Luger, in 9mmP. It was given to me as a basket of parts, and I got it up and running, sort of. After a brief period where it liked to go full auto on me, I have most of the bugs out of it. However, functionality isn't great. Due to it shooting low, I am experimenting with Lymans 358430, which I have in the 150 gr. version. Mine casts at 158 lubed. I have some load data for this weight, but function isn't happenin'. It will feed from the mag, but will almost always fail to eject. It always extracts, it just won't clear.
I am gradually uploading, as I have heard the Lugers were designed with a hotter German load in mind. How hot do I go, and what to look for on the way? The hotter I go, the better it functions, but I don't need a KaBoom. Thanks.

[runfiverun]

with a bullet that heavy you will probably want to look at your burn rates.
partly because of how aluger operates

[dubber123]

with a bullet that heavy you will probably want to look at your burn rates.
partly because of how aluger operates

Suggestions?, I have tried Herco, and Unique. I was thinking perhaps a faster powder to "smack" the toggle open. It wants to function, but the loads are geting into the +P range. I have always heard the origional spec ammo was loaded hot. I am curious as to how high to go. Thanks.

[Harry O]

I rmember reading one of the Handgun gunrags some years ago. They had an article every once in a while from a guy who specialized in Lugers. He made a 45ACP once and also some .380 ones. Most were 9mm, but each one was special in some way.

I remember that he used Red Dot in his loads (because at the time I was using Red Dot in a lot of my loads). He said that the Luger needed a fast powder to bump it open properly. He also said that most problems with feeding were from weak magazine springs. The Luger needed a VERY heavy magazine spring to feed the next cartridge fast enough to keep from jamming. He also said that the rumors that the European 9mm cartridges being loaded hotter were not rumors. They were fact. His loads were at the top end of the load scale. Sorry I don't rmember the name of the guy.

[lathesmith]

Dubber, I once had a Luger around 12 years ago; this pristine specimen would easily digest safe loads with "minute of can" 15 yard accuracy, and function was around 98 percent(about as good as it gets with a luger). So I would not recommend getting too hot with your load; if it is not functioning properly most of the time, something else is amiss. I'll try and dig out my exact load if you wish, but is was nothing special--just a mid-range load topped with a 158 gr round-nose cast lead Lyman 358311 or similar.
I really miss that old Luger--I regret many times over selling the darn thing. Though I really didn't care much to shoot it--they have a very odd, wrist-twisting recoil--it was a beautiful piece of world history. I wish you luck with your project!
lathesmith

[leftiye]

9mms should function with a 125 - 140 grain boolit (or bullet) in the 100 to 1200 fps range. Most will function with even lighter boolits at 1000 fps. If you're using 150 grain boolits and having trouble with cycling either your pressure is too low, or your gun has a problem. 9mm also runs 30,000 psi, and above in maximum loads, so it isn't shy about pressure (though I wouldn't risk messing up a LUGER if I had one).

I don't have any knowledge about loads for that heavy of a boolit. I'd look for some data, or have someone work up a quickload load for me, if it were mine. Lyman makes a 140 (some odd) grain devastator boolit. There should be data for that somewhere that will give you an idea as to pressure/powder levels to use. Again, if it's not cycling, either there's not enough pressure, or there's something wrong with the gun.

Unless there is a problem with the cycling of the gun, your idea sounds like it should work. Heavy boolit should shoot to a higher POI, and should also add to pressures/inertia for cycling.

[dubber123]

Thanks for the input guys, while I don't want anyone to use my loads, I'll tell you where I am at for reference. With the 158 gr. boolits, 4.0 grs. of Unique will feed from the mag, but stovepipes 100%. 4.5 grs. of Unique gets a few to function, mostly still stovepipes. The empties aren't far away on the ones that eject. It acts for all the world like a too mild load, but both of these are max for a standard pressure load. If the Lugers really were meant to run on a higher pressure load, that explains it. The 158's shoot right to the sights. BTW, the mag spring is very strong, you really need to use the button on the side to load it.

[dubber123]

I almost have it, I took it apart and noticed the extractor wasn't as far into the bolt face as it should have been. I tweaked it until it has full contact. 4.0 grs. of Unique, and it made it most of the way through a magazine. It still refuses to throw brass very far, and the one malfunction was when the toggle didn't come back far enough to strip off another round. A little hotter on the load, and it should be fine. Thanks again.

[StrawHat]

It still refuses to throw brass very far,

I shot a PO8 in the late 60's and early 70's. As I recall all the empties would go straight up and land in my hat brim.

The one time I shot without a hat, the first shot put the empty down the back of my shirt. It was an interesting dance, from what all the other shooters tell me.. After they stopped laughing..And they were Family!

Anyway, I don't recall the PO8 throwing empties all that far.

[dubber123]

I shot a PO8 in the late 60's and early 70's. As I recall all the empties would go straight up and land in my hat brim.

The one time I shot without a hat, the first shot put the empty down the back of my shirt. It was an interesting dance, from what all the other shooters tell me.. After they stopped laughing..And they were Family!

Anyway, I don't recall the PO8 throwing empties all that far.

I'll keep that in mind. The one jam I got on the last test was when the toggle didn't retract far enough to strip another round. I am going to assume a little more velocity will work the action farther back, and improve functioning.

[lathesmith]

That old Luger of mine threw empties straight up in the air as well. Sore thumb from loading, twisting of the wrist upon firing, empties going straight up(maybe even going down your shirt, and then dancing a little jig-ha!)--all part of the nostalgic Luger shooting experience!
lathesmith

[dubber123]

That old Luger of mine threw empties straight up in the air as well. Sore thumb from loading, twisting of the wrist upon firing, empties going straight up(maybe even going down your shirt, and then dancing a little jig-ha!)--all part of the nostalgic Luger shooting experience!
lathesmith

Hmmm.. "Nostalgic Luger shooting experience", he says. And all this time I had been calling it a pain in the nuts![smilie=1:

[floodgate]

Years ago, when I had a couple of Lugers, and hadn't gotten into reloading,I found they were VERY sensitive to "limp-wristing" with the relatively underpowered US factory loads of that time (the 1950s and early '60s). If you reallly "leaned into" the pistol with your arm locked straight, they would function 100%.

floodgate

[dubber123]

Years ago, when I had a couple of Lugers, and hadn't gotten into reloading,I found they were VERY sensitive to "limp-wristing" with the relatively underpowered US factory loads of that time (the 1950s and early '60s). If you reallly "leaned into" the pistol with your arm locked straight, they would function 100%.

floodgate

That very well could be a contributing factor, Tuesday I chopped up a couple fingers with a saw, so I'm basically shooting one handed, not the most rigid shooting position.

[longhorn]

The "Luger guy" is John V. Martz. California, maybe? Works or worked on P-38's some, too.

[floodgate]

dubber:

OUCH!!! Hope it heals up OK. I mashed my RH finger-tip with a hammer a couple weeks ago, but it's working again now - looks UGLY, but I'm not gonna lose the nail this time. Makes ya feel real stupid, doesn't it?

Doug

[dubber123]

dubber:

OUCH!!! Hope it heals up OK. I mashed my RH finger-tip with a hammer a couple weeks ago, but it's working again now - looks UGLY, but I'm not gonna lose the nail this time. Makes ya feel real stupid, doesn't it?

Doug

Dough, ouch indeed. Yes I feel stupid. Trying to save a few seconds and well... I hope you heal up well, mines gonna take a while.:roll:

[runfiverun]

if i had the powder i would try the faster powder
have a tokarev that was touchy with unique and limp-wristing
went to tightgroup seems to run like i like it to and most cases are in a little pile.

runfiverun

[dubber123]

if i had the powder i would try the faster powder
have a tokarev that was touchy with unique and limp-wristing
went to tightgroup seems to run like i like it to and most cases are in a little pile.

runfiverun

I was contemplating trying Bullseye for just the reason you mention. I can't find any load data for it, but I could probably extrapolate something. Thanks.

[lathesmith]

I stuck my right index finger into my carbide 10" table saw blade about 4 years ago. It took out a neat blade-shaped chunk out of the center of the finger. I was VERY lucky, this careless act of stupidity was only about 1/8" deep and I recovered OK. I believe the only power tool I fear more than a table saw is the radial arm saw. Luckily, these have been rendered all but obsolete for the home shop by the more accurate,useful and much safer miter (chop) saw. Take care there D, heal up--and PAY ATTENTION when using those power tools!
lathesmith

[dubber123]

I stuck my right index finger into my carbide 10" table saw blade about 4 years ago. It took out a neat blade-shaped chunk out of the center of the finger. I was VERY lucky, this careless act of stupidity was only about 1/8" deep and I recovered OK. I believe the only power tool I fear more than a table saw is the radial arm saw. Luckily, these have been rendered all but obsolete for the home shop by the more accurate,useful and much safer miter (chop) saw. Take care there D, heal up--and PAY ATTENTION when using those power tools!
lathesmith

Unfortunately this one, (both fingers) is a bit deeper than 1/8". Right to the bone. I guess all that milk I drank as a kid paid off, as I have never seen a spinning circular saw just STOP. I am guessing it hooked the finger bones and thats what stopped it. It could have been much worse. I should try and post a pic. It really looks alot better after a few days.[smilie=1: