What blueing process is this?

[pretzelxx]

Is it a combination of different things, or a partial acid blue? I want to build a 1911 from the ground up and get thw slide and frame home blued. I just can't get which process this is actually called!

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/08/a462214b0182a7bc0148472210da00ab.jpg

[lefty o]

thats not bluing, that is color case hardening, and it is expensive to have a good job done. the guy that did that AR is the best in the business, and not cheap. Turnbull is the man when it comes to CCH.

[pretzelxx]

Ah, no wonder bluing came up with nothing! Thanks for the info!!

[lefty o]

no problem.

[Akheloce]

A way to mimic CCH (not durable long term) is to take 91%isopropyl, a q-tip, and oxpho blue.... Thoroughly clean the metal- shinier but cleaner the better, dip the q-tip in the alcohol, the the oxpho, then onto the metal. Experiment with different patterns and amounts of alcohol.

Lastly, put on a light smooth coat of Tru-oil to give it depth and gloss.

It will scratch as easy as a wood stock, but will otherwise last pretty well.

[leftiye]

Unless it's made of steel, that isn't case hardening. Possibly not a cool idea anyway what with the warping that might (probly) happen. Case hardening requires cooking in an oven in an airtight container with chemicals in a heat treating oven. It only works on steel/iron.

[reed1911]

That gun was done by Doug Turnbull the BEST in the biz. It is a steel receiver, here is a link.

http://www.turnbullmfg.com/store.asp?pid=37491

[pretzelxx]

I figured it was steel, and i looked into turnbull to see if they explained the process. I also have looked at midway and brownells for a setup. $1500 for an oven with 10# of charcoal is a bit much for me.

[reed1911]

Well, look, even with the equipment and a step by step on the basics, you still have to a LOT (and I mean a LOT) of trial and error to get those nice bright colors. Manufacturers like S&W, Colt, etc cannot match it and they have a lot more $ to approach it, what it comes down to is just send it to Doug and let him do it. The cost is very reasonable if not cheap and the quality is second to none. Ask any 'smith you want and they will tell you the same.

[country gent]

Color case hardening is a art form in itself. Done right it is a great looking finish done otherwise its a plain grey ugly looking finish. It was originally done with a low fire and leather wrap with charcoal and bone pack. Doug Turnball has taken the time and experimented to get those finishes consistently. Even the grade type of steel affects the coloring aspects. Polish, cleanness of the parts, oxegon levels in the pack, and the charcoal bone have a direct bearing on finish. In the old days it was also a means of hardening the surface of the metal leaving the core soft. With proper cleaning, polish, and such it is repeatable though. Now case hardining is done thru lower heats and some nasty chemicals (arsenic is one) no colors but the hard surface .030 or so deep.

[pretzelxx]

I have looked into it a bit more and no doubt it would probably take me a year and hundreds in metal and charcoal to figure out what to do to get it right. Someday i will just send a frame in!

[DeanWinchester]

Yep, Turnbull is the best there is for color case hardening.

[xs hedspace]

Yes it takes lots of trial and error. I did some CCH with a pottery kiln, years ago. A Stevens Favorite came out right after two tries, but the pipe I used for airtight container developed a hairline crack, so my Win Low Wall was too dark. Lots of excitement when dumping into the air bubbled quench water, from the 1400 deg packed container!! Actually, the Low wall is fading a bit now, so it looks better. Warping is also a problem when quenching. I found out from a metallurgy book that the nasty smell comes from cyanide gas inside the container, so I stopped trying about 15 yrs ago.

[oldred]

I found out from a metallurgy book that the nasty smell comes from cyanide gas inside the container, so I stopped trying about 15 yrs ago.


Only when cyanide or cyanide containing compounds are added to the pack mix, just using plain bone and wood charcoal does not produce anything particularly toxic. Cyanide added to the mix produces a deep case and bright colors (possibly part of Turnbull's secret????) but cyanide is next to impossible to get and extremely dangerous to handle/use in the process so it's highly unlikely a person is going to unknowingly produce any cyanide fumes while trying to color case harden at home. The nasty smell you mention comes from the bone charcoal and other than the foul smell and a small amount of carbon monoxide it produces it's quite harmless.

[lefty o]

actually cyanide is a fairly sweet smell.

[oldred]

actually cyanide is a fairly sweet smell.


There is a fine line between getting a whiff and being able to tell anyone what it smelled like and getting a whiff and not being alive to tell anyone anything! Cyanide is some REALLY nasty stuff!

[lefty o]

There is a fine line between getting a whiff and being able to tell anyone what it smelled like and getting a whiff and not being alive to tell anyone anything! Cyanide is some REALLY nasty stuff!dont have to tell me, but smelling it alone wont kill you. i worked with multiple kinds of cyanide every day 12hrs a day for a few years. its one of those things that is very deadly, but only really dangerous if your an idiot.

[webradbury]

I'd hate to have to lug that heavy SOB!

[leftiye]

Plus 1! An AR10 is already heavy in my book.

[Char-Gar]

dont have to tell me, but smelling it alone wont kill you. i worked with multiple kinds of cyanide every day 12hrs a day for a few years. its one of those things that is very deadly, but only really dangerous if your an idiot.

Cyanide is what they used in the gas chamber when it was a common means of execution.

[oldred]

Cyanide is what they used in the gas chamber when it was a common means of execution.


In that instance cyanide pellets were dropped into acid causing a reaction that produced cyanide gas, a far different scenario than using cyanide for case hardening purposes. Cyanide is still present in some of the compounds used for case hardening but anymore these are very hard to obtain, in years past it was not so uncommon at all because as was pointed out all it really takes is a bit of common sense to be safe. I remember reading in an old gunsmiting book, maybe someone here can refresh my memory on the author, on one of the case hardening methods he spoke of using cyanide in the mix. In a footnote he warned to "keep your cyanide in a safe place and be careful handling it because if you get any in a cut or in your eyes you will quickly die"! I think this was written back in the 40's so cyanide must have been rather easily accessible back then.

[lefty o]

i think most people have no idea that cyanide is present in so many things.

[oldred]

Even things like apple seeds and peach pits!

[pretzelxx]

Surprisingly, they only charge $250 for a 1911 frame! Much less than i originally misread! I can afford to do that a lot easier than $500 like i thought and the $1500 startup kit. Sooner or later i will get a frame colored up and assembled for a hand me down shooter.

[oldred]

I seriously doubt Turnbull's colors can be duplicated at home no matter how much practice a person gets doing it, I am almost positive their process involves materials and conditions that would simply be impractical for the DIYer.