PID arrived today with other components for casting controler

[oneMOA]

My PID, SSR, thermocouple arrived today and I plan to use an old PC power supply box to house everything. Those who recognize my userid know that I have been frustrated with the confusing information on the web about casting lead boolits. I find it hard to believe that one has to cast a lot of boolits and learn by trial and error before casting good boolits. Temperature of the lead and temperature of the mold, constant ambient temperature, and a regular cadence when cutting the sprue equals good boolits. Good alloy plays into this but I am not casting range scrap or COWW. With a known alloy, and a known and controlled temp within several degrees of said alloy, using my IR thermomenter to monitor the mold temp should produce good boolits.

I am not willing to spend years of trial and error to "Figure it out" and learning by casting thousands of boolit. If I cannot make this work in a relatively easy manner in a relatively short time, I will move on to another hobby and shooting sport, life is too short and I'm too old to wait around for what seems like an easy endevor for satisfactory results.

I need to re-smelt my lead/alloy inventory due to poor quality control 35 years ago when I was casting fishing sinkers. Today I need clean alloy, back then I didn't need that for sinkers. I expect to have that done sometime this week. Since I am also in the gun leather business, I have to fit all this in between orders, maintaining my property, chores around the house that my Wife finds for me to do, not to mention the cowboy action matches that I attend on weekends, along with the work at the gun club which no-one else wants to do, and my other obligations as an officer in the club. Once I get this PID operating I plan to post the results and what I believe will be a desireable outcome on my boolit casting venture.

Stay tuned!

[Garyshome]

It just takes a little practice, It is not that hard to learn to cast.

[el34]

I'm with you oneMOA. Having a lack of talent and skill I rely on science and numbers and the value of consistency. The PID has been a big iprovement for me and if I/we/anyone can come up with a temp-controlled mold we'd be there. Instructions that say "set your mold regulator for 510F" beats the heck out of "just get your cycle time right".

[monadnock#5]

Old school is fine, but the scientific approach will get you to where you want to be in the time frame you desire.

PS, buy more thermocouples. These are items you'll want to keep in inventory.

[oneMOA]

I completed the wiring of the PID temp controller for my casting pot just a few minutes ago and that was my last project for the day. While I didn't test it, I have no doubt it will work just fine as this is simple to assemble with detailed instruction on the website, http://www.auberins.com/ The total cost of the components was $95 shipped to my door. I did not have to buy a box to house everything since I had an old PC power supply which I gutted and used the box for a perfect fit. I have not programed the unit yet but the instructions look pretty straight forward so I expect no issues.

If you have been thinking about getting one but have been hesitant thinking it may be too difficult.......... not to worry. If an electrically challenged person like myself can do it, then a caveman can do it. Others on this forum are using these PID's and controling their temps withing a couple of degrees + or -. I am expecting that level of performance with my PID.

It may be the first of next week before I can get my metal smelted and ready for my casting pot, but a full report will follow.

I will say to the naysayers, no longer will a caster need to read the tea leaves, or throw down some chicken bones to find out if his pot is "right." This is 2014 and we have air conditioned automobiles and electric lights, and now precisely controlled temps for our casting pots.:bigsmyl2::drinks:

[el34]

Common sense on indications of temp are all you need.

Biggest thing I can tell anyone starting out is preheat all your molds TO CASTING TEMP on a hotplate......banger

Are people born with the common sense to know the indications of temp for boolit casting? What are those common sense indications? Frosting and wrinkles? I had to learn the significance of those indicators well beyond the suspicions that my mold was bad, my alloy had zinc, my mold was bad, my boolits would disintegrate when shot, my mold was really bad, I wasn't doing something right and not knowing what that was, lots of stuff from my imagination monster.

What is the proper casting temp for a mold? How does someone know they are there?

Absolutely no doubt you are well-tuned on these things based on your IQ and experience. But it wasn't immediate for me, don't know about others. The ability to measure things important is a good thing.

[el34]

If you have been thinking about getting one but have been hesitant thinking it may be too difficult.......... not to worry. If an electrically challenged person like myself can do it, then a caveman can do it. Others on this forum are using these PID's and controlling their temps within a couple of degrees + or -. I am expecting that level of performance with my PID.

I will say to the naysayers, no longer will a caster need to read the tea leaves, or throw down some chicken bones to find out if his pot is "right." This is 2014 and we have air conditioned automobiles and electric lights, and now precisely controlled temps for our casting pots.:bigsmyl2::drinks:

Amen brother! We are glad to have gas gauges in cars, we're glad to have thermostats to keep our houses nice, we gladly rely on many ways to measure and control things of importance.

[dikman]

When I first started casting round balls I melted lead in a saucepan, over a gas ring using first a ladle and then a home-made pourer with a spout (like the Lyman). The first 6 or so balls were usually duds, until the mold got up to temp, but then I had no problems casting good balls. I then went to an electric bottom pour and love it, followed not long after by a PID (mainly because I'm a bit of a nerd and love building gadgets). Banger is right in that the fancy stuff isn't needed to cast good boolits, as long as you're prepared to spend the time experimenting and learning BUT the fancy hi-tech approach does make life easier and lets me cast much quicker.

OneMOA, $95 seems a bit high, just for the PID/SSR and TC?:confused:

[oneMOA]

When I first started casting round balls I melted lead in a saucepan, over a gas ring using first a ladle and then a home-made pourer with a spout (like the Lyman). The first 6 or so balls were usually duds, until the mold got up to temp, but then I had no problems casting good balls. I then went to an electric bottom pour and love it, followed not long after by a PID (mainly because I'm a bit of a nerd and love building gadgets). Banger is right in that the fancy stuff isn't needed to cast good boolits, as long as you're prepared to spend the time experimenting and learning BUT the fancy hi-tech approach does make life easier and lets me cast much quicker.

OneMOA, $95 seems a bit high, just for the PID/SSR and TC?:confused:

The PID from Auberins can control a 10 amp load with out the need for a SSR. In my view and others on this forum, the heat generated would reduce the life of the PID, possibly by a bunch. I purchased an SSR with a 40 amp capacity which is well beyond what is required to switch an 800 watt load. I am not using a heat sink for the SSR, which would have been another cost, but I'm hoping the 40 amp capacity will not generate that much heat where a sink would be needed. In addition I purchased the High temp TC instead of the standard for added insurance. I also purchased a panel mount receptacle to plug in the cord on my Pro Melt, rather than hard wire it. I needed to be able to seperate my pot from the PID controller for storage under my bench when not casting. Then there's the shipping, so $95 doesn't seem high to me, but to each his own.

[Springfield]

Maybe I read it wrong but I would rather the heat be in the SSR than in the PID. I run a 40 amp SSR with my 1500 watt Magma pot and with the cover off it barely gets warm to the touch anyway. I put heat sinks on mine as they came that way from my e-bay sources and figured it can't hurt. I cast for a few years before I built the PID. I was perfectly capable of making decent bullets but it is nice to have confirmation of what you feel is correct. It was mostly helpful in knowing how much the temp dropped when ingots were added, that was most enlightening.
As for speeding up the learning curve, pouring lead in a hole and getting decent bullets really isn't all that difficult. Doing it consistently on days with different temps and humidity and with moulds of different materials and amount of cavities is still going to require some "feel", maybe quite a bit of it. The devil is still in the details, and experience is still the best teacher. If you are trying to find a way to get perfect bullets every time without taking time to learn I fear you will be disappointed. For your sake I hope I am wrong.

[dragon813gt]

I don't understand why some members like to talk negatively about processes they don't use. There are a lot of forums I could post in if I wanted to do this. Instead I just don't post because I don't have anything nice to say.

A PID means there is one less thing to worry about. Yes, you can cast bullets w/ only the pot control. A thermometer will show you how varied the temp swings are depending on the pot level. You will constantly chase the temp if you use a thermometer. Very easy to do but one more thing to do. W/ a PID you set it and forget it. You only have to focus on your cadence.

I'd be interested to see a bell curve of bullets cast w/ no thermometer or PID. I know my bullets have gone from an average swing of about 1 grain to .3 for the ones I cast on Monday. For pistol bullets it doesn't matter much. But for rifle bullets it does. Having automated control of pot temp is great for a novice through master caster.

[el34]

I don't understand why some members like to talk negatively about processes they don't use. There are a lot of forums I could post in if I wanted to do this. Instead I just don't post because I don't have anything nice to say.

A PID means there is one less thing to worry about. Yes, you can cast bullets w/ only the pot control. A thermometer will show you how varied the temp swings are depending on the pot level. You will constantly chase the temp if you use a thermometer. Very easy to do but one more thing to do. W/ a PID you set it and forget it. You only have to focus on your cadence.

I'd be interested to see a bell curve of bullets cast w/ no thermometer or PID. I know my bullets have gone from an average swing of about 1 grain to .3 for the ones I cast on Monday. For pistol bullets it doesn't matter much. But for rifle bullets it does. Having automated control of pot temp is great for a novice through master caster.
You'll probably never hear someone say "Well this PID stuff is crummy, I had one and my boolits were worse than when my pot temp was allowed to run wild".

Badmouthing either means a report of bad results or it means a defense of an emotional position.

[MBTcustom]

Nobody ever cast "perfect boolits" with only 4 hours training. Either the feller was a prodigy, or your definition of "perfection" needs to be readjusted.
I've been casting for over 18 years now, and I am still finding ways to gain more consistency. But then again, I judge my success with standards other than my "gut". I depend on measurment equipment to keep me honest, because the only force on this earth stronger than love is my ability to fool myself. (you can quote me on that if you like).
No, we do not judge groups by appearance, we do not judge speed by recoil, we do not use the numbers on the side of the box to tell us what weight our boolit molds drop, and we do not guess and temperature. Anybody who cares about quality and thus precision will use measuring tools both to create, and to maintain these two principles.
I have built a PID for myself, and while I cast without it for 17 years, I will not do without it henceforth because it gives me a very real edge. This is not some gooey feeling in my gut, or the supreme glee I experience from having blinking LED lights on my pot. This is concrete results that I can observe, measure, test, and duplicate.
Like this:
116057

[Yodogsandman]

I've cast for about 30 years and have no need for a PID to cast good boolits. I decided I should build one because I'm curious about what my 30 year old Lee 10# BP pot is running at. I cast when it's 100 degrees and when it's 0 degrees out in the barn. Much tougher in the dead of winter...when I have lots of time to cast, too. Just ordered the major parts for a PID controller tonight. PID (MYPIN), 40A SSR with heat sink and Type K, 4 inch long, SS probe. I'll house it in some sort of box, maybe a .223 military ammo box. Add a female receptacle and a plug in wire for it from some old kitchen appliance. Total cost with shipping was $28.08. All I really wanted was a thermometer but, those are about $50.

[el34]

Just ordered the major parts for a PID controller tonight. PID (MYPIN), 40A SSR with heat sink and Type K, 4 inch long, SS probe.

I hope you report back with your project and how you like it after a couple of casting sessions. I've yet to see anyone announcing they're unplugging it and going back to the "good ol' way".

[Handloader109]

I cast twice before I put together my $35 PID. First time I got some pretty good bullets, second time I couldn't get anything right. PID helped a lot, it keeps the temperature of your melt within just a couple of degrees. For however long you keep the power on. No fluctuations from the crappy thermostat on the Lee pot. Now you have to have the temperature right for your bullet you are casting. That is the trick, along with how fast you need to cast to keep bullets coming out good enough. The PID isn't going to make you a perfect caster, but it ELIMINATES variability. It keeps you from chasing your tail because if you use what comes on most of the pots, you WILL be chasing your tail.

[dikman]

oneMOA, I agree, I would never run a pot directly off the PID (definitely not a good idea). As for the SSR size, one of mine is a 25A and one is a 40A, with the only heatsinking being the case itself. Neither get particularly warm, but I agree that the 40A is the better way to go.

One thing I've noticed is that the stock heat control on the ProMelt is better than the Lee (but neither is as good as a PID, of course).

[oneMOA]

oneMOA, I agree, I would never run a pot directly off the PID (definitely not a good idea). As for the SSR size, one of mine is a 25A and one is a 40A, with the only heatsinking being the case itself. Neither get particularly warm, but I agree that the 40A is the better way to go.

One thing I've noticed is that the stock heat control on the ProMelt is better than the Lee (but neither is as good as a PID, of course).

Had I known what I know now I would have bought the Lee pot. I made an assumption the RCBS pot would have the better thermostat over the Lee. The bandwidth on the RCBS was quite large from low to high and while that may not have been all my problem, it certainly contributed. Lyman has been advertising a digital control furnace for a long while but has yet to deliver to the dealer shelves. The bandwidth may not be any better than the mechanical thermostat.

While I have yet to test my PID in an actual casting session, I am confident I will be closer to my goal of casting precision boolits for my BPCR in 45/70. I had planned to re-smelt my alloy and clean up my trash problem, but the motor on my leather stitcher machine gave out and put me behind on delivery dates for some gunleather orders. As a result my production schedule went to h*** in a handbasket. My motor is back in the machine today and I expect/plan to re-smelt my alloy maybe on Sunday or Monday (Cowboy action match on Saturday). Firing up my casting pot will follow shortly thereafter.

[dikman]

Had I known what I know now I would have bought the Lee pot.

I sometimes think the same thing, as the Lee is pretty good once you add a PID - except for the metering system! I modified my Lee pretty heavily, in order to get around the shortcomings of the design. As they say, you get what you pay for. The Lee is made to a price and that means a simplified metering system - but it's still pretty good value, particularly when you add a PID.

If this setup doesn't do what you want, you might as well give it all away (but I'm sure it will work well).

[oneMOA]

Here the results of a short casting session today using my new PID. I set the temp at 715 as suggested by a friend and using my new Lyman 535 gr Postell mold, and my alloy has some tin but very little. Set the mold on the hotplate, fired up the RCBS Pro Melt bottom pour and after My allow was up to temp and the mold up to temp, cast a few for inspection. On a side note the Lyman mold had issues with burrs in the cavity from the machining of the vent lines and as a result the boolit was difficult to release. De-burred using a 10x loupe and the back edge of an Exacto knife and good to go. I then lapped the cavity using a boolit and JB Bore Paste. The mold works great now.

While I'm examining the first drop boolits, I'm watching the PID and it started out about 15 deg of the set point and cycling on and off. The Auberins PID has smart technology and in about 12 minutes was controlling the temps within 2 deg. I decided to adjust the setpoint to 750 to see if the higher temp cast better boolits. Changing the set point means the PID has to go thru another learning cycle for about 12 minutes then smoothed out to within 2 deg control at the new temp.


My opinion after this one casting session is the PID is the way to go and I have zero regrets about spending the money. The 40 amp SSR may have been overkill as there is no heat at all in switching my 750 watt RCBS pot. I did not want to use the heat sink in conjunction with the SSR due to added cost and limited space in the box with the other controls (I used an old PC power supply box that I scronged from the local PC repair shop for free) The 25 amp SSR may work fine without a heat sink.

I do not have a dedicated casting bench so my PID control must be seperated from the RCBS pot for sstorage of both under the bench. I remove the TC when I turn off the controler from the alloy while it's still liquidus as the TC just hangs over the edge of the pot. When firing up the pot again, I power up the PID and the pot begins to heat. Once the alloy is liquidus, I insert the TC and the PID will control the temp of the alloy at the set point from there.

Precise control of the alloy temp allows one to eliminate one variable when experiencing problems with casting boolits. Sometimes technology can be a good thing if it makes life easier.

[el34]

Woohoo!! :drinks:

But not surprised you're happy you PID'd.

If you're ever motivated, you can order inline connectors from Auberins so you could disconnect the TC and leave it in the pot. No big deal though.

[dragon813gt]

Does that PID have an auto tune feature? It should not take 12 minutes every time you change the temp. You run the auto tune which is how it learns your pot. From that point on it will fine tune.

[el34]

oneMOA, did you tell it to autotune? You have to hold the AT button for 3 seconds or so and the little light will come on. That's when it learns the characteristics of your pot. When it's done the AT light goes out. Otherwise it will operate on default values.

Basically it figures out-

1/ How fast does your pot heat up at full tilt, as in degrees per minute
2/ When it shuts off how much hotter will your pot get due to the lag time between heater and TC
3/ How fast does it cool off when it turns the pot off.

From those things it kinda computes when to back off when it's coming up to your setpoint, and when to stop. When almost at the setpoint (10-15deg away or so) it'll start duty cycling off-and-on with the expectation of quickly getting up to temp without overshooting by more than a few degrees.

But you have to marry it to the thing you're controlling by intentionally launching the AT (learning) function. And it really works well if you do it when you're about 20deg away from setpoint.