T/C Renegade .56cal. Smoothbore @ 50 yd.

[Maven]

Although I've had the T/C .56cal. SB for a while (I got it "used," but essentially never fired), I never summoned the resolve to test it at anything beyond 25 yd. That changed today. Past experience has shown it to be accurate at 25 yd. when fed the proper combination of ball, patch, and OP wad. More about that in a bit. Btw, the gun hasn't enough drop to fit me, so offhand shooting is awkward, to say the least. Shooting from a rest, which I did today, is worse since the comb smacks me squarely in my face (cheek bone). I cured that by making a pattern and then cutting & sewing several layers of synthetic sheepskin to the stock: problem solved! Resting the gun exactly as I would when shooting offhand (front rest + rear bag), I managed to shoot a group that was 2 5/8" x 2 3/4" with 2 shots in essentially the same hole and 2 more touching. These were shots 3 to 7 as the first and second were foulers, which is something I want to bring up in the 3rd paragraph. In short, they were wide of 3 -> 7, but still on paper, but not the outer scoring ring (6 1/8" in diameter). As happy as I was with that rifle-like group, it was a bit to the right of center, and in trying to adjust the rear sight, messed things up a bit. A trip to the 25 yd, range with a fresh target (also 6 1/8" dia.) got things back to normal, with 3 shots in 7/8" (edge to edge) and one 3/4" away, also edge to edge.

The load I used today was 80gr. Diamondback FFg with a .550" ball cast from a Lyman mold. The OP wad was 1/4" thick wool felt that I cut prior to heading out to the range. Btw, the felt came from Duro-Felt, which is wonderful to deal with. I didn't have time to lube those wads today, but they work better with lube (I use 1 beeswax : 6 white Crisco): less breech fouling and no bunt wool stink! The patch is some tightly woven 100% cotton material similar to pocket drill that I picked up at Jo Ann Fabrics and mic's @ .010", compressed. As thin as it is, it is a tight fit with the .550" ball, but it has never burned through when I didn't use felt OP wads. The patch lube was 1 Ballistol : 6 H20.

In both my trade gun and the T/C Renegade SB I've noticed that I get tighter groups when I use an OP wad, either felt or cardboard, with a patched RB. I'm also finding that a slightly tighter ball - patch combination, though a bit harder to start, may positively effect accuracy albeit to a small degree. Lastly, having fired the trade gun last week and the Renegade today, I'm finding that it takes 2 - 4 shots for the bbl. to settle in and produce tighter groups. Has anyone else experienced this too? One last point, I read over on the Traditional ML Forum that the T/C .56cal. SB can produce "rifle like" accuracy with a .535" RB and an appropriately thicker patch. Maybe in some guns, but trust me, not in mine. I tried it several times with a .535" (.537" in fact) RB + a .022" and .024" denim patch + OP wad with the same 80gr. charge mentioned earlier: No dice! The smaller ball + thicker patch resulted in groups at least 50% larger than the .550" ball + .010" patch I'll continue to use.

Hope this gives you smoothbore shooters some heart: Those guns can group!

[johnson1942]

from what i have been told ballistol is a very good patch lube. alot of traditional round ball shooters in this area use it to lube their patches. sounds like your haveing fun.

[C. Latch]

Thanks for posting this.

*ONE OF THESE DAYS*.....I want to work up a load with my 20-gauge smoothbore barrel and kill a deer with it, with a .610" round ball, and the sort of stuff you posted here is handy information to have. I've shot it a few times out to 50-60 yards, and it appears to shoot minute of deer, but I've never shot it off the bench, except once, and it was fouled from some shot loads and shot horribly.


eta: My 20 is a rebored .50 Renegade barrel; I have the Renegade stock and lock, but I rarely use it, as the Hawken stock design is FAR more comfortable to me, and I have a couple of those.

[Maven]

Roger, Ballistol and water make an excellent patch lube. E.g., I used it [on patches] during a woods walk yesterday (19 shots) and didn't have to swab the bore at all. Btw, came in 5th with 15 out of 20 hits. Missed an easy shot + 2 bonus points though.

C. Latch, Once you get the bore clear of Pb fouling, that gun will shoot better than minute of deer. What I've been finding is that ball dia. and patch thickness are a more important than the powder charge (within reason) in getting a smoothie to shoot well. An OP wad helps too. Btw, on yesterday's woods walk, a fellow was using a 20ga. smoothie wi. a rear sight. His powder charges varied from 60 gr. FFg - 80 gr. and he shot respectably.

[johnson1942]

as ive said some of the real traditional guys shoot with nothing but ballistol and water on their patches and swear by it. it was developed by the germans during ww2 and is very very popular in europe. its what cleaned and oiled all the german rifles and side arms during ww2. it is catching on over here now, a bit pricey but really worth it. im glad you mentioned it as it may solve a lot of fouling problems with the smooth bore shooters if they try it.

[Geezer in NH]

Ballistol IMHO is not the best lube no matter internet following. Your shots ?? need bench rest and more trials That bad of groups wrong ball size and patch size IMHO. I have shot BP competition for 30 years and never used any of it.

[waksupi]

I've not used Ballistol, I've used water soluble oil and water (Moose Milk) for years with great luck. Consistent accuracy, very little fowling.
I'd sure stick with the proper patch ball combination you were using. I kinda suspect those using the undersize balls, don't own the right size mold for their gun!

[dondiego]

Ballistol IMHO is not the best lube no matter internet following. Your shots ?? need bench rest and more trials That bad of groups wrong ball size and patch size IMHO. I have shot BP competition for 30 years and never used any of it.

Ballistol is a water soluble oil. "That bad of groups......" Really?

Don

[waksupi]

Ballistol is a water soluble oil. "That bad of groups......" Really?

Don
Yeah, I know it is WSO, but I use the machinist type, rather than the organic Ballistol. The main reason for that is, I bought a gallon of the oil years ago. That translates into around ten gallons of lube at my mix rate. I doubt I run out soon!

I also wondered about the group comment. Really? Tighten up, Paul, he wants them all in one hole!

[Maven]

"I also wondered about the group comment. Really? Tighten up, Paul, he wants them all in one hole!" ...waksupi

Well, so do I! (LOL) Actually, I'm surprised that so short a bbl. (26") would shoot so well. As for the Ballistol - water patch lube, there's nothing magic about it, nor do I stock in the corp. that produces it. Rather, water soluble machine oil without additives is hard to find in this burg. Moreover, Dutch Schoultz stopped recommending WSMO (in favor of Ballistol) for that very reason. Lastly, up until a few years ago, I often used Winchester Sutler's "Moose Milk" when I wanted a [wet] patch lube, but they've changed the formula lately: it neither looks nor smells the same as it once did. Don't really know what I'll use once I run out of Ballistol.

[dualsport]

What would you say is your effective range for deer with that TC? Just curious. I always wanted one of those.

[Maven]

ds, As I don't hunt, I'm in no position to answer your question. However, with a well-fitted ball - patch and OP wad, an accurate gun, and a skilled shooter, maybe 75 - 80 yd.

[OverMax]

Honestly for the life of me. I could never figure out why T/C decided to make the 56 smooth bore (cap lock???) in a Renegade stock. On that decision making day. Those in that decision making room. Oh they had to have had a litt'l to much Wacky Tobacky or one too many shots of Old Cabin Still.

http://www.cooperedtot.com/2014/04/the-tragedy-of-old-cabin-still.html

[Maven]

"Honestly for the life of me. I could never figure out why T/C decided to make the 56 smooth bore (cap lock???) in a Renegade stock." ...OverMax

Part of the reason was to allow the use of a ML long arm (no rifles though) for Massachusetts' hunting season. (I don't know whether that's still the case in MA though.) And yes, it is a cap lock, which came from MA, but you're right, why the Renegade stock? Maybe T/C thought MA hunters didn't want to spend $$$ on the Hawken?

[waksupi]

"I also wondered about the group comment. Really? Tighten up, Paul, he wants them all in one hole!" ...waksupi

Well, so do I! (LOL) Actually, I'm surprised that so short a bbl. (26") would shoot so well. As for the Ballistol - water patch lube, there's nothing magic about it, nor do I stock in the corp. that produces it. Rather, water soluble machine oil without additives is hard to find in this burg. Moreover, Dutch Schoultz stopped recommending WSMO (in favor of Ballistol) for that very reason. Lastly, up until a few years ago, I often used Winchester Sutler's "Moose Milk" when I wanted a [wet] patch lube, but they've changed the formula lately: it neither looks nor smells the same as it once did. Don't really know what I'll use once I run out of Ballistol.




I think my WSO is rare antique collectable old stock, as I haven't had a problem with it. I DID buy it quite a few years ago.
I had noticed a color change to the commercial stuff I've seen for sale at shoots. I imagine they simply went with the new formula WSO when it came out.

[Boogieman]

WSO is avaible at NAPA auto parts I use it mixed with water & liquid soap [ 8-1-1] It works for a patch lub. & cleaning

[Maven]

Thanks for that information, B-man!

[mj2evans]

Are you saying your OP wad is felt/wool? No card stock but a cushion? I would like to get a trade rifle in 20 ga and am trying to understand the best way to use it as a deer gun as well as a squirrel scatter gun.

[Maven]

mj2evans, I sometimes use a card stock OP wad + a wool (felt) wad + a patched RB. The other day I elected to just go with the felt wad + patched RB.