New BPCR shooter - Casting/Reloading shopping list

[UberDuper]

I recently picked up a Lyman 1878 rifle in 45/70 specifically to get into BPCR silhouette shooting.

I'm looking to get into casting and bpcr loads. I've reloaded pistol ammo before so I've got the basics and a beginners understanding of reloading.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what specifically I should get. It seems like I need to get a combination of mould, dies, plugs, inserts, etc that'll all work together for a specific diameter and profile of the bullet.

I figure I'll start with a typical ~520gr postell mould but I'm curious if the Hoch nose pour ones are worth getting. Then again, if spending that much, wouldn't it make more sense to just get a brooks custom? I haven't done a chamber cast yet and I suppose I still wouldn't know what specs I'd need on a custom mould anyway.

I'll do a chamber cast before I get started but I don't think that'll really impact my mould purchase. As far as the lyman moulds, it seems like you get what you get. Maybe it drops the perfect bullet. Maybe it doesn't. Custom is probably an eventuality unless I get lucky with a lyman.

I don't have a preference for which dies I get. But I want to make sure I get ones that can take custom expander inserts and seating plugs. I've read that I need a compression plug but I'm not sure which die that goes into. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

What are my options for sizing bullets? I don't really want to spend the money on a lubrisizer.

I guess that's about it for now. I have a ton more questions, but I think if I can get a mould and dies, I'll at least be able to start.

[country gent]

Heres a good way to start out with this endeavor. You have the rifle already it sounds like so thats the first step. What sights does the rifle have now. A tang mounted ladder and globe front work great for most. The chamber cast will give throat length,dia and angle, giving an idea of overall length to shoot for. Check rifling twist rate in the barrel also. A tight fitting patch around a brush, put a tape flag at the muzzle and pull rod thru to 1 rotation is made measure from muzzle to flag. This will give you an idea as to bullet length or wieght that can be used. Next up are a batch of good cases all the same make and lot number. As to moulds, I have gotten good results with several bullets Lymann 457125 round nose 535 grn postell have worked good for me I also have a brooks adjustable Paper Patched mould. Slugging the bore will give bore and groove dimensions to get an idea of the moulds dimensions diameter wise. If you decide on the custom mould send the chamber cast and bore slug to the maker. As to loading dies a 3 die set to start out. Buffalo Arms sells compression stems and expander stems for most dies. There are several ways to do this allowing for some "press" on the bullet when seated or a slightly bigger expander and hand seated bullets. You have to get these to fit your dies. Starting out changing around isnt a big deal but it is easier to pick up another belling die for the compression stem and not have to reset everytime. You may decide you want a drop tube. easy enough to make from an old aluminum arrow or other tubing. Decide what powder you are going to use Swiss, Goex, Old ensford????? The SPG manual has very good info on loading and if paper patched is in your thoughts Loading and Shooting Paper Patched bullets A Beginners Guide by Randolph S. Wright is also very good. Use a lube desighned for Black powder Spg is good as are several others. Other wanted needed tools a wad punch, case mouth deburring tool, A case mouth brush, Can be a rifle brush in a handle. Go to Buffalo Arms company and see what they have. Also Trac of the wolf. Read all you can I would start with the SPG manual and get a good idea of whats required The above is very basic.

[Dan Cash]

Country Gent has passed some excellent advice. Regarding moulds, I use a Hoch nose pour and find it an excellent mould. My mould happens to drop a .460 bullet which is ideal for my bore. If you need a custom size, Accurate Mold can provide what you need and it will not be as costly as a Brooks but will make superb bullets.

[country gent]

One thing I forgot to address is lubing sizing bullets above. Bullets that drop at the correct dia for your throat and bore can be lubed several ways Pan lubing works well. stand bullets up in a pan and melt lube around them at a depth to fill desired grooves. cut out with a modified case. A lube sizer can be employed with the appropriate sizing die. or BUllets can be handlubed works best with a softer lube like spg. get a pinch of lube on your thumb and press work it into grooves with your thumb. Think packing a wheel bearing. Bullets can be sized after pan lubing or Hand lubing with a lee push thru sizer and your reloading press, though to get the right size you may have to polish the die out some. Sorry for the ommision

[Gunlaker]

I just looked up the twist on your rifle. It's advertised as 1:18 which is excellent. The rifle is relatively light for a BPCR so you might want to try a slightly lighter bullet regardless of the twist.

i'd start with a decent production mold unless you've already done a lot of casting. It's best to get your feet wet on a cheaper mould. Saeco makes a few good moulds for the .45-70.

Black powder loading is relatively simple. In addition to the stuff you'd use for smokeless, I'd advise a decent set of dies ( I like the RCBS Cowboy dies ), a drop tube, and a powder compression plug which goes into the expander die BTW. I'd advise going with a pan lubing setup with SPG. You can get everything you need at a kitchen store. Buffalo Arms is a great place to get reloading equipment and molds.

Chris.

[Lead pot]

UberDuper.

Here is my suggestion to you since your just getting into the BPCR game.
Before sinking money in a bunch of equipment like moulds, stuff that go with dies, lead pots, alloy and a bunch of other stuff a guy gathers up in time.

I would get ahold of John and have him send you some bullets you think you might want to use. He is one heck of a fine guy to work with and his bullets are the best I have looked at coming from a custom bullet supplier. He might even send you several different stiles you want.
Unless you are like me and shoot 6-7000 plus rounds every year and shoot just a few now and then it would be cost efficient to just buy your precast bullets. You have to do a lot of shooting to get your payback buying casting equipment and alloy.
http://www.bigskycastbullets.com/
A set of Lyman dies will work just fine for your loading needs and you can add the compression stem http://www.buffaloarms.com/powder_compression_plugs_pr-3777.aspx
that you should use. The expander stem comes with the die set and you can interchange the expander with the compression stem, or you can buy a universal die body so you don't have to adjust your dies all the time http://www.buffaloarms.com/reloading_dies_pr-3751.aspx
The 3 die set and the compression stem is really all you need to get started with.
When you feel you rally like this discipline of shooting then invest in specialized equipment like a custom mould that is the proper diameter so you don't have to get sizing/lube dies and the other unnecessary stuff. You can get a very good custom bullet mould for the money you spend on sizing dies and lube seizers that are not needed.
LP.

[Don McDowell]

I'll take it one step further than Leadpots excellent suggestion, and say that when you get a hold of John just have him send you a batch of those Saeco 645 bullets. That's likely the best allround bullet a person will ever come across for the 45-70. The thing will shoot fine to 1000 yds, and will lay sillouette rams out cold when you hit em.

[UberDuper]

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone.
I think I've got a pretty good understanding of what I need to get started now.

[Washington1331]

I'd take a look at lee molds and their melting pots. They are a good way to get into casting to see if you like it and not break the bank.

Rotometals.com is a good place to buy premixed alloy at a decent prices and you get free shipping if you order $100 worth of stuff.

I'd also invest in a copy of Spencer Wolf's book on the 45/70. Sure it is for the trapdoor rifles but some of the reloading techniques will cross over to your rifle. It's a good place to start.

Im not sure how far your looking at shooting. Most ranges around me that offer BCPR silhouette shooting is at 200 yards with reduced targets. If you find the same thing true around you, I'd take a look at the carbine loads and the lee 405 grain hollow base boolit mold. It's 20 bucks. The hollow base means that the boolit will bump up to your bore diameter. It also won't smart as much allowing you to develop good shooting habits without the flinch.

Hope that helps.

[UberDuper]

Ideally I'd like to shoot as far as the rifle will allow. The range I frequent has 250,500,800,1000 yard gongs. 6" plates at 250 with hornady 325gr FTX and the janky Lyman sight has been pretty easy. Too bad I didn't know hornady brass was short till I got through 40 of them.
Don't know where I'd actually get to shoot silhouette around here yet.

Ordered a Lee Shaver long range soule and new front globe yesterday.
Still slacking on ordering up casting equipment and dies. Perhaps tonight.

Is roll or taper crimp die preferred to removing the flare?

[UberDuper]

Here's my list so far. Doesn't include lead/powder/primers/wads/brass.
I've got presses, scale, hand primer, calipers, etc.

45 Cal. Rifle Compression Plug for RCBS Expander
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=164562&CAT=3777


RCBS Cowboy 3-Die Set 45-70 Gov
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/178912/rcbs-cowboy-3-die-set-45-70-government


Extra RCBS Expander Die (for the compression plug)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/338107/rcbs-expander-die-45-70-government?cm_vc=ProductFinding


Need 2 of these RCBS Shellholder #14
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/155560/rcbs-shellholder-14-30-378-weatherby-magnum-45-70-government-460-weatherby-magnum?cm_vc=ProductFinding


Lee Pro 4 20Lb Furnace - 110v
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1262645810/lee-pro-4-20-lb-furnace?cm_vc=ProductFinding


Lead flux
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/593033/frankford-arsenal-cleancast-lead-fluxing-compound-1-lb?cm_vc=sugv1593033


Bullet mold
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/567421/lyman-1-cavity-bullet-mold-457125-45-caliber-458-459-diameter-500-grain-round-nose


Handles for bullet mold
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/698819/lyman-bullet-mold-handles-for-1-cavity-and-2-cavity-lyman-bullet-molds?cm_vc=sugv1698819
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Lyman_Bullet_Moulds_it-160758.aspx?CAT=3847


Lee Sizing die kit .458” diameter
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1193/1/LEE-SIZE-458


Bullet Lube
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/864606/spg-bullet-lube-1-2-lb-block?cm_vc=ProductFinding


Cheap hot plate
http://www.amazon.com/Aroma-AHP-303-Single-Plate-Black/dp/B0007QCRNU


Lee Universal Depriming die
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/136543/lee-universal-depriming-and-decapping-die?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[montana_charlie]

Your list shows a .458" Lee sizing die kit, but you still haven't made a chamber cast.
You should hope the Lyman bullet mould will throw a .460" bullet, and you may find that size chambers easily.
If it does need to be sized down, the cast will tell you 'how much'.

The chamber cast will also tell you how deep the chamber actually is.

CM

[UberDuper]

Yeah. I was thinking about that last night. I'll take the sizing die off the list for now.

I'm basing my sizing on a chamber cast someone else did of the same rifle. I know that's silly. But I will do my own.

[Lead pot]

I would scrap the bottom pour lead pot and go with the http://www.midwayusa.com/product/709235/lee-magnum-melter-furnace-110-volt?cm_vc=subv1709235 also I would scrap the sizing die and and the Lyman bullet mould and get one of these http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=160238&CAT=4157 or http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=160241&CAT=4157
You will be money ahead from buying a mould twice and the sizing die you don't need. Plus when you get going you will plug the bottom pour to get a better cast bullet.

[Gunlaker]

I'd agree with Kurt on all of that stuff. Especially what he says about the bottom pour pot. And the Baco moulds :-). I've got a version of the second one (Money without reduced bands ) and it shoots very well in two of my .45-70's.

Chris.

[UberDuper]

Those are some expensive molds. Do those use the Saeco handles?

[Gunlaker]

Yes they do use Saeco handles.

A lot of folks have good results with the Saeco #745 and #645 bullets if you want to start off with something cheaper. Those ones shoot well for me as well.

Chris.

[montana_charlie]

Those are some expensive molds. Do those use the Saeco handles?
If you like the looks of that Creedmoor bullet, I can help you out a little less expensively.
PM me ...

CM

[UberDuper]

Finally pulled the trigger on all of this. Just need to setup a workbench and order some BP now.

Thanks for all the help getting this figured out.

[doc1876]

you might consider a Lee universal decapping die so you don't end up squishing cases attempting to resize.

[UberDuper]

That was on my list, but midway was backordered so I ended up getting the rcbs one.
I don't plan on resizing cases.

[country gent]

Depending on bullet dia, case thickness, and chamber dia you may have to resize a little to get that just right slip fit into the case. On several of my rifles I use a bushing die and size to depth of bullte and wad only. to a dia that just provides support to bullet but allows hand seating

[chill45100]

What has worked for me in the past is to flair the cases ever so slightly and leave a enough flair on the case mouth to lightly scrape the chamber as the action is closed. This will help to center the case mouth in the chamber and keep shaving the bullet base to a minimum. Personally I found it very beneficial to have an index mark on the bullet to align with an indexing mark on the case rim so that you can then align the round uniformly in the chamber. Your results may vary, let the rifle tell you what it likes.
chill45100