Grouping issues, trying to find a load that works.

[Aaron871]

I started this in the "Black Powder Paper Patching" forum, I was advised I'd get a better response here.

Cliff Notes:

50 cal Traditions O/U Express (North American Big Game)
1:28 Twist, 24" barrel
Leopold Superslam S.A.B.R. Scope.




I tried some modern sabots without any success, I can't get this rifle to group at all....

I used a large variety of ammo I have for my inline CVA's and I purchased some .458 sabots for the .50 so I could try some heaver bullets.

I tried all of the following in plastic sabots, used Pyrodex Pellets and Blackhorn from 80 all the way down to 60 grains. It was a long day...


250g Barnes
265g in a .451 and a .458 configuration
290g Barnes
300g TC's
405g Lead Swaged
450g Copper Barnes
500g Copper Barnes


The 450 and 500 grain bullets were tumbling at very short range. The 405's did the best but were not even close to acceptable at 85 yards.

I'm very frustrated, I have inline CVA's that take 2 Pyrodex pellets and cut the same hole all day at 100yds.

Scope is tight.
Bore is shiny, no rust.
Best I can tell the crown is good.
The gun is extremely tight when closed.




I ordered some PP 550grain bullets and wads from Buffalo arms. I don't understand why the PP system needs to be heaver than what I can shoot in a sabot..... but I'm giving it a try.


I believe my barrels are at .4995 (I'm just sticking a micrometer in the barrel) all of the commercial sabots are way too tight. I sized the .457-8's down to .454 and they fit better but still wouldn't shoot well.

Patched bullets are coming out at about .501 (haven't shot them yet).

What primers are you guys using with the Blackhorn?
What am I overlooking?

[johnson1942]

you will want your wrapped bullet to come out 1 or 2 thousands under the top of the lands bore size. also lubeing them with lee alox will be a good idea also. dont forget the wad. i use what ever shotgun primers are avail for my blackhorn 209 powder. dont buy the expensive underpowered ones marked just for muzzleloaders. the hotter the better. i also for my .45 fire a fouling shot as it will shoot high if i dont do this. the .50 doesnt require it for some reason. the pictures of your bullets look perfect. if i double wrap i slit the paper through both layers about 1/2 way down the bullet. they did this in the 1880/s and i learned that from a old book. it helps the paper come off easier. keep us posted on what you are doing and how it goes. thanks for your post.

[Themoose]

I use Federal 209A primers for BH209... they are hotter than Win 209... as Roger said.. stay away from "muzzleloader primers meant for "777"... they are not hot enough to ignite BH209 reliably...I haven't had a chance to try paperpatched bullets in my Knight50 yet as I am still waiting for my sizing dies to be finished.

[Nobade]

Welcome to this room! Now we can try to figure out your rifle without getting all corn-fused with those brass cartridges.

First thing. As Johnson1942 mentioned, the patched boolit needs to be a bit smaller than the bore. I go for .001" myself. It should slide down all the way using just the weight of the ramrod. If you have a .4995" bore and .501" boolits, the patch is going to get torn when you try to load them. Not every time, but often enough to give you problems. So the very first thing to do is get those boolits to fit. Either a .498" sizer to size them after they are patched, or better yet whatever you need to make them right before they are patched. Or slightly thinner paper if you can get some. Either way will work. After that is done, you can start working on loads and wad stacks. (Though I found using BH209 I didn't get any benefit from wads at all in my sample of one rifle.)

And as I cautioned you before, only load one barrel or the second boolit will slide forward at the first shot.

-Nobade

[Fly]

Listen to these guys very carefull, & follow what they tell you to the tee.I promise they will get you
there very quick.
Fly

[Aaron871]

This weekend is the archery opener, but I'm going to try to get some shots off.... we'll see.